Rogers trouble with Kiefer mystifying.

[federerhoogenbandfan]

I am bewildered as to why Roger continualy has such trouble with Nicholas Kiefer. Kiefer is not an up and comer, or a player making strides, or a truly talented underachiever, he is just a run of the mill top 30 player, grossly overhyped by the German media. The other top players, Hewitt, Agassi, Roddick, all take turns giving him a beatdown.

Roger should spank Kiefer everytime they play, or almost everytime. Yet he regularly lets this far less talented player with no weapons to bother him get in matches with him and take sets. I dont understand it at all. I can understand Nadal giving him trouble, or even to some extent Nalbandian, although the latter is more surprising, but Kiefer??!!??

 

[spinbalz]

Kiefer is not an up and comer, or a player making strides, or a truly talented underachiever

As opposed to your point of view, many peoples think that Kieffer IS at truly talented underachiever...

 

[The tennis guy]

Kiefer plays unusual game. He doesn't give you any rythm, or style to anticipate. Federer doesn't read Kiefer's shots as well as he does other players.

I agree with spinbalz, Kiefer is a talented underachiever.

 

[skip1969]

Talented enough, I would say. According to someone on the match thread, Kiefer is "lucky" in running into a sub-par Federer, every time they play.

I doubt that. I just think it's a bad match-up for Fed. Sometimes, it's like that. You have trouble with someone you shouldn't, for no obvious reason.

 

[Ztalin]

Kiefer's high ball toss intimidates Federer. Same with Hrbaty's.

 

[Babblelot]

Yet he regularly lets...bother him

I think you're warm, here. In addition to what others say, Kiefer is one of the quirkiest players on the tour. I wonder how much his antics actually bother Fed.

 

[AAAA]

I'm not at all surprised.

 

[dozu]

it's just one of those things in any individual sports, or even team sports, that an average player gives a particular top player some trouble.

But this is USO we are talking about, and Roger has plenty of motivation to go thru Kiefer

 

[alienhamster]

Since he's capable of hitting every shot in (and out of) the book, Federer's really morphed into a player that can kill you by hammering on the weaknesses in your game. He can spank Hewitt now that he's figured out how that you need to send Hewitt variety and off-pace shots. Roddick gets his serves returned and his backhand pounded.

Players like Kiefer and Hrbaty don't have many clear "weaknesses" to exploit. Kiefer's got a pretty good all around game--not as good as Federer's--but good enough to stay with Fed if Fed's not at 100%.

And I agree with others that Kiefer's quirkiness helps keep Fed guessing/off-balance. Same with Santoro (though Santoro's got a totally different game, and Kiefer fares better b/c you need some pace to beat Fed.)

 

[DashaandSafin]

Agree with alienhamster. Kiefer does not have any "exploitable" weaknesses. You could counter this by saying neither does Hewitt, however, Hewitt is unable to attack continually like Kiefer does. Basically Kiefer is like Federer, but worse.

 

[Grinder]

Kiefer definitely isn't a "run of the mill top 30 player", he's once been ranked as high as number 4 in the world. People expected him to follow Boris Becker's success.

 

[Mark Oakley]

I am not a Kiefer fan, but I think he has more talent than most give him credit for. He just doesn't have the mental game. If he pulls his mind together, he would be able to sit in the top 5 for a while.

 

[teedub]

Yeah..Kiefer's weakness is his mind, he's been choking when he's played Federer this year. He realizes the enormity of the situation when he's at one set all and up a break and donates the break right back. What happened today also happened at wimbledon, Kiefer was on the verge of bringing the match to a 5th set as he was serving for the 4th, but got broken and burned losing the 4th. Same thing happened today, but in set 3.

He also tries to be too cute with his drop shot volleys. He should seriously punch them more often.

 

[teedub]

Kiefer's very talented.

 

[teedub]

I am not a Kiefer fan, but I think he has more talent than most give him credit for. He just doesn't have the mental game. If he pulls his mind together, he would be able to sit in the top 5 for a while.

Yup... He's been top 5.

 

[devila]

TOP 5 for Kiefer? That's a big doubt. YES, he has clear weaknesses.
His serve's shaky when he's down 15-30. It's a high toss that's unpredictable, but he's not tall and powerful enough. Usually, he gets broken when he has to run to hit a forehand and volley. He can't drop shot a lot, but he keeps doing it. So, he loses the match fast after 5 or 6 broken serves.

 

[ACE of Hearts]

The match took 3 hours and 2 minutes,Roger had his chances to break him in the second set.He needs to serve better otherwise he might lose to Nalbandian.I was really mad at how Roger sucked.

 

[teedub]

Forgot to say, Federer's play has really been off when he's faced Kiefer, and Kiefer should have taken advantage because he's good enough.

 

[Bula!]

Kiefer is very talented and has excellent technique on all of his shots. He has a big forehand when he actually hits it, but he is just too mentally weak.

 

[Rob_C]

TOP 5 for Kiefer? That's a big doubt. YES, he has clear weaknesses.
His serve's shaky when he's down 15-30. It's a high toss that's unpredictable, but he's not tall and powerful enough. Usually, he gets broken when he has to run to hit a forehand and volley. He can't drop shot a lot, but he keeps doing it. So, he loses the match fast after 5 or 6 broken serves.

Kiefer has been in the top 4-5 in the world. It was back in the late 90s, he made it to the Masters when it was held in Germany.

 

[devila]

He had 15-40 chance in the 3rd set, but he hit everything short and soft like a little girl. Just because Federer was broken twice doesn't mean he played badly. Or else, he'd lose the match.
Kiefer isn't quick enough and without injury, he hasn't been a top tenner.

 

[Marius_Hancu]

read again records: K was top 5 in 1999 or so.

 

[fastdunn]

I know I'm going to be pounded by saying this:
it is because Federer is basically a baseliner.

 

[ACE of Hearts]

He might be a baseliner but he can also choose to go to the net, but he doesnt have too since he can outpower anyone with his forehand.

 

[ACE of Hearts]

I believe as he gets older, u will start too see Roger serve and volley.He deosnt need it know.

 

[FedererUberAlles]

He's got a lot of talent. It's too bad it didn't all come together at the right time,.

 

[fastdunn]

He is surely magically talented guy.
Let's see how his game evolves.
In history, not many players successfully changed their game and survived.

Maybe Federer is so confident that he thought he could beat players like
Safin, Nadal and Gasquet who managed to neutralize his power
baseline game.

 

[snowpuppy]

Kiefer is suppose to be talented. In face boris becker wanted to take him under his wing. But misunderstandings prevented that.

 

[35ft6]

Keifer is like a baby Agassi and also in some ways like Nalbandian, who is another guy that Federer used to have problems with. Maybe this is something Hewitt can learn. I think Hewitt tries to do too much. Maybe he needs to face the fact that he's never going to beat Federer when Roger has a good game, so his only chance is to play super steady and hope Federer is having an off day.

 

[VamosRafa]

Some of my good friends are Kiefer fans and they call him a "headcase." And he is one. He had many chances here, and also some in Cincy, but he is a headcase. His game does match up well against Federer's and if he had more confidence in himself, he could have won the match, or forced Fed to play better.

 

[BreakPoint]

Kiefer is a very good player IMO. He hits the ball pretty flat and pretty d*mn hard. He moves well and can really nail some DTL shots just like Nalbandian can. He also volleys very well as he's had some success at doubles. He also has a big serve. Some of his serves were over 130mph today. I think Keifer plays a similar game to Safin except that Keifer can volley better, but he also has an even weaker mental game than Safin, if that's even possible.

 

[bcaz]

Actually, Safin volleys better than Kiefer. Kiefer is very talented, quick, powerful on both wings, and a good serve when he gets it in. I reminds me of Nalbandian in one way -- neither one has a good attitude on the court, they don't seem to be having fun out there, unlike the best players.

 

[rhubarb]

read again records: K was top 5 in 1999 or so.

Yes, Jan-Mar 2000, reached number four. Heck of a long time ago then, what's he done since?

 

[wjwalsh]

Ive been a fan of Kiefer since his Wimby quarter final in 1998 when he was a hot young upstart. He has a great game and has lighnting speed and an awesome change of pace on both sides-however mentally he is useless. I think Bob Brett gave him confidence and they worked well together but dunno why they split.Whats Bob up to these days anyway?No one can doubt he is an underachiever, but I think his mentality in this tourney was good and he can be happy with his achievments and look forward to the indoor season which suits his game to a t.

 

[35ft6]

Yes, Jan-Mar 2000, reached number four. Heck of a long time ago then, what's he done since?

Yeah, I wouldn't say he possesses top 5 talent any more. Top 10? Sure. He could easily be in the top 15 or 20 if he got his mind right.

 

[Marius_Hancu]

Kiefer is a very good player IMO. He hits the ball pretty flat and pretty d*mn hard. He moves well and can really nail some DTL shots just like Nalbandian can. He also volleys very well as he's had some success at doubles. He also has a big serve. Some of his serves were over 130mph today. I think Keifer plays a similar game to Safin except that Keifer can volley better, but he also has an even weaker mental game than Safin, if that's even possible.

Saw him here in Montreal recently against Dent (64 64). Beat Dent by coming unexpectedly to the net, slow-balling him now and then, suddenly sending some sharp drives, plus shocking him with power serves.

 

[qcumber]

Kiefer said afterwards he would have won but that Federer started playing really badly and that threw him off.

 

[@wright]

Keifer is a talented player, and one that can hang with anyone for a couple sets. It's obvious that he doesn't have Federer-like confidence, no one does. He's a solid player and his high toss makes his serve harder to read, or Federer would be all over it. Federer beat him 3 out of 4 sets playing sub-par tennis - not bad.

 

[federerhoogenbandfan]

Kiefer's #4 ranking was a joke, he never had results that warranted a #4 ranking. No slam semis, no Masters Series final, few wins over top 10 players, only 1 slam quarterfinal in the previous 12 months leading up to when he attained that ranking(I know he reached the quarters a few others time in his career but the rankings or on a rolling 12-month period). It is just an example of a flawed ranking system he reached that rank, since his results were never of top 4 caliber ever. I never thought he really had long-term top 10 potential, no way, I think he is ranked where he should be. Not only did his results not warrant a #4 ranking then, but the field was a bit weakish between 98-2002 when Pete started to slow, along with his veteran peers(Andre is in and out his whole career so he is a different animal altogether), the so-called next generation of Haas, Phillipousis, Moya, Enquist, etc....turning out to the be the lost generation, and the next wave not arrived or not matured yet. He may look like an underachiever because he seems to have some sloppy misses, but remember he plays low risk tennis, obviously because he knows his game playing the percentages is not good enough to beat top players.

Roger did volley well, and move and hit his backhand decently in yesterdays match. Everything else was terrable for his standards-return of serve, serve, forehand, focus. His fastest serve halfway through the 2nd set was 119 mph, usually he would have a few over 130 mph by then, I believe his second fastest serve of the match was 124, and the placement wasnt near what he usually has, nowhere near the lines most of the time. His forehand wasnt nearly as devastating as it usually is, and was missing alot, and his return was sluggish and late all the time. I believe we will see the real Roger in the next few rounds, he always plays his worst against Kiefer and did again yesterday, lucky for Kiefer Roger makes him look much better than he really is.

 

[fedex27]

keifers got all the shots. he just has no menatl game. he kicks unorthodox shots at times. like the drop shot in the 3rd? i think its his great strokes with such unprodicatablitly that throws fed off. other than keifer and santoro fed is really the only guy that keeps you so off balance by shot selection.

 

[fastdunn]

Kiefer has very strong baseline game and thus able to put up with
Federer's baseline game reasonabley well.

Kiefer also has very strong return game (he used to be top returner).
And Federer depends on his serves surprisingly a lot. His serve may not
look that intimidating but it gives troubles to lot of people. Not many people
can exploit Fed's serves. Safin, Nadal and maybe Agassi a little bit...

 

[The tennis guy]

Kiefer's #4 ranking was a joke, he never had results that warranted a #4 ranking. No slam semis, no Masters Series final, few wins over top 10 players

Not true. Kiefer had a 10-9 record vs top 10 players in 1999. He had had career threatening injuries (tore ligament on both ankles) since. Otherwise he would have had better career. Denying he is talented is non-sense. He can do everything well, very few players can say that these days.

 

[federerhoogenbandfan]

Not true. Kiefer had a 10-9 record vs top 10 players in 1999. He had had career threatening injuries (tore ligament on both ankles) since. Otherwise he would have had better career. Denying he is talented is non-sense. He can do everything well, very few players can say that these days.

I am referring to his head to head with top 10 players, considering where the player was ranked at the time, not where they ended the year ranked. Anyway that is not the most important aspect, head to head is hard to quantify into ranking points, which is why they dont do it. A World #4 should have done better than 1 slam quarterfinal and no Masters Series finals in the last 12-month period. The difference between points alloted to grand slams vs Masters Series events, should be greater, right now it is twice as much, it should be a greater difference; and Masters Series events vs the most valuable tournaments points-wise should also be greater than what is it now, which is 60% for the most valuable non Masters Series events vs Masters Series. Basically the ranking system should award quality over quantity more than they do, and there would be fewer rankings that dont make sense. He never had the results(not to mention the game)of a player ranked that high IMO.

 

[156MPHserve]

Someone said Hewitt has no weaknesses... that's not true... He doesn't have enough weapons of his own. He relies on OTHER people's pace... counterpunching OTHER people's shots. The only weapon of his is speed, and against Fed's lightning fast forehands, Hewitt's just not good enough. IMO Safin is the most talented player in the world... he can really do anything when he puts his mind to it... however putting his mind to something is quite the task...

 

[West Coast Ace]

Someone said Hewitt has no weaknesses... that's not true... He doesn't have enough weapons of his own.

Not having a weapon isn't a weakness - it's a limitation. Weakness means a component of his game would be substandard that other players can exploit - aka Roddick's lame backhand. Hewitt hits winners, just not as many as Fed, Nadal, and Safin.

I do agree 100% with Safin - as he proved at AO, he can push Fed around - unfortunately he only puts that type of effort together every 3 or 4 yrs.