Serena, Roger : The Greatest Ever

[Verbal Volley]

I think that Serena will go down in history as the greatest female player ever. She has been so good over such a long period of time. Truly amazing. Sadly, I think that her pregnancy put aside any chance of her surpassing Margaret Court for most singles Slams of all time. Court's record is over-inflated by her 11 Oz titles, at a time when players could not afford to travel down under to play there. As for the men, I would stick with Roger, even if Rafa passes him for career singles Slams. At his best, Roger was unbelievable. he hit shots that no one else in the world could hit. He redefined the game. Rafa is top heavy at Roland Garros (12 titles, going on 13), and his HTH against roger is unbalanced because of their many clay court meetings where Rafa is virtually unbeatable. But it also showed that Roger was not afraid to play him on clay (even at the expense of their HTH record), and knew that he would probably lose. Roger is a class act all the way. And at 39 or close to it, both are still teaching youngsters how to play matches and winning matches against more youthful and hungrier opponents.

 

[Fiero425]

Without even taking into consideration any of the usual disclaimers concerning their fitness to be proclaimed the respective GOATs, I have a problem with both for different reasons! Up until recently I was ready to give it to Roger with the most consistent record known to man in the Open era! He made the SF in Paris last year with barely a blip of trouble in route, then was a couple MP's from winning Wimbledon for a 9th time to match Navratilova! That's all well and good, but he's being made to look a little weak in the eyes of more objective experts of the game with Nadal and Djokovic right on his arse! As for Serena, as dominant as she could be, I think she underachieved in multiple ways! She was a part time player with interests outside of the game doing fashion, acting, making red carpets, etc.! It's just not something we would have seen out of Court, Navratilova, Evert, Seles, or Graf! We can say it's a new era, but it wasn't just injury that took her off the tour for months at a time!

 

[BeatlesFan]

but he's being made to look a little weak in the eyes of more objective experts of the game with Nadal and Djokovic right on his arse!

Federer's ahead of both of them in all the major tennis records. If Roger's "a little weak," then logically, the two guys with inferior resumes chasing him must be far "weaker."

In any case, anyone calling any of the big three "weak" isn't objective, they're simply moronic.

 

[Winners or Errors]

Serena... no. I agree with @Fiero425 that there are a lot of women with that claim, not the least of which are Graf, Evert, and Navratilova. Seriously, where was Serena ever the lock Chrissy was on clay? Yes, there were some years during which Serena was absolutely dominant, but she didn't do that with the kind of consistency of an Evert, Graf, or Navratilova.

The jury is still out on the men's game, though I think Federer had tougher competition in his prime than either Nadal or Djokovic. The field has been seriously weak since about 2013. We will see. Will Novak break Fed's weeks? Will Nadal break the slam count? All three are astounding players. I have my preferences there, though, so I am hardly an objective judge.

 

[Fiero425]

Federer's ahead of both of them in all the major tennis records. If Roger's "a little weak," then logically, the two guys with inferior resumes chasing him must be far "weaker."

In any case, anyone calling any of the big three "weak" isn't objective, they're simply moronic.

Hello, why isn't those 5 or 6 yrs xtra on tour counted by U guys? It's used to explain away so much; why not give Nadovic a few more yrs to supplant the GOAT?

 

[tacou]

If slam count doesn't matter and shot creativity is what you're looking for, Fabrice Santoro for GOAT

 

[Verbal Volley]

Let us not forget that Roger is 39, and still competing for GS singles titles. His best days are probably behind him, and yet he still challenges for the major titles. No one else compares to him in terms of his shot making and his determination to continue to compete for Slams. As for Serena... yes, she wasted years by having interests outside of tennis. She probably would have passed Margaret Court's inflated record of 24 GS singles titles had she dedicated herself to tennis 24/7 throughout her career. But that is what makes her so great. She can take a lot of time off and come back strong, winning titles while not at her best physically. I also take exception to people putting Chris Evert in the argument for the greatest of all time. She only won 18 of 34 GS singles finals, so she was definitely beatable in the Slams. She was consistent on the tour, but her record in the Slams (even though she reached 52 of 56 semi-finals) is misleading, because,she lost many semi final matches and championship round matches that she should have won to be considered in the company of Graf, Navratilova, Williams, etc...

 

[beard]

Serena, possible if she wins slam or two, if not I will remember her for being do close but lost do many times one step before finishing goal...

Federer? Buahahahaha... Owned RodDick & Hew, and got owned by Rafa & Novak...

 

[ND-13]

I am a Djokovic fan and have no problems in admitting that Federer is ahead of the rest .

I have great respect for Nadal. If there were 2 clay majors, he would be at 30 majors and made mockery of the sport . To begin with , cards were stacked against him and it is to hit credit he still can get the most majors .

Djokovic , while having many records of his own , trails behind both Fed and Rafa .

 

[DSH]

Serena... no. I agree with @Fiero425 that there are a lot of women with that claim, not the least of which are Graf, Evert, and Navratilova. Seriously, where was Serena ever the lock Chrissy was on clay? Yes, there were some years during which Serena was absolutely dominant, but she didn't do that with the kind of consistency of an Evert, Graf, or Navratilova.

The jury is still out on the men's game, though I think Federer had tougher competition in his prime than either Nadal or Djokovic. The field has been seriously weak since about 2013. We will see. Will Novak break Fed's weeks? Will Nadal break the slam count? All three are astounding players. I have my preferences there, though, so I am hardly an objective judge.

Safin was finished at 25, Nalbandian and Hewitt the same at 24,, Roddick after he turn 24 was hardly a threat anymore with the sole exception of Wimbledon 2009 where he had the chance of his life to defeat his nemesis who was beatable but oh surprise, he failed again for the umpteenth time.

You can talk about talent as much as you want but if it is not accompanied by professionalism, work ethic, the constant effort to improve and adapt to the continuous change in the conditions of the game, in addition to will power, motivation, love for what you do and having a bit of luck with injuries to prolong the careers of tennis players as much as possible; if all these factors are not added to the innate technical abilities of the players the success of having will be limited and little conducive to being lasting.

In summary, Federer's generation was very good but various factors paved the way for the Swiss player to have an unprecedented success that has not been seen since the time of Borg, in addition to which, unlike the time of the Swedish, the 4 Big tournaments have more or less a similar prestige something that was not so decades ago, so the opportunity to win Majors is much higher in modern times.

 

[JaoSousa]

I think that Serena will go down in history as the greatest female player ever. She has been so good over such a long period of time. Truly amazing. Sadly, I think that her pregnancy put aside any chance of her surpassing Margaret Court for most singles Slams of all time. Court's record is over-inflated by her 11 Oz titles, at a time when players could not afford to travel down under to play there. As for the men, I would stick with Roger, even if Rafa passes him for career singles Slams. At his best, Roger was unbelievable. he hit shots that no one else in the world could hit. He redefined the game. Rafa is top heavy at Roland Garros (12 titles, going on 13), and his HTH against roger is unbalanced because of their many clay court meetings where Rafa is virtually unbeatable. But it also showed that Roger was not afraid to play him on clay (even at the expense of their HTH record), and knew that he would probably lose. Roger is a class act all the way. And at 39 or close to it, both are still teaching youngsters how to play matches and winning matches against more youthful and hungrier opponents.

Don't think the GOAT exists. It is useless to compare players between eras. There are some obvious tiers of players that you can make, but it is very difficult to proclaim a "best ever" in any professional sport. If there was a tennis GOAT, it is Navratilova imo, because of her insane record across singles, doubles, and mixed doubles.

If I had to pick a women's singles GOAT, it would be a toss up between Graf and Serena. Unfortunately one of the best players of Graf's time was stabbed, but many of those who have claimed Serena is the best have never seen Graf play, especially the American sports media. Funny how standards for the GOAT are always changing. When it was between Federer and Nadal, some commentators said Rafa had the edge because of Olympic Gold, Masters titles, weak era. But when it came to Graf and Serena, even if Serena is only ahead by 1 slam, they do not hesitate to proclaim Serena the GOAT.

Maybe a better argument instead of who is the best could be to rank players by every ten years. Although people's careers overlap, it would be a more fun argument!

 

[Enceladus]

I have great respect for Nadal. If there were 2 clay majors, he would be at 30 majors and made mockery of the sport . To begin with , cards were stacked against him and it is to hit credit he still can get the most majors .

We can play this game in many different ways. If there were an indoor major, Nadal would have 15 GS titles and he not holder of the Career Grand Slam. Even with the two clay majors, it's not as clear as many think. What if it was grandslam with green clay, like USO 1975-1977? I'd say Nadal wouldn't be as successful on the grandslam with green clay as on RG. Or Madrid, for example, a clay tournament but with lower ball bounces, that's why Nadal is not as successful there as at RG or in Rome.
In tennis, a lot depends on the conditions - speed, bounce height, etc. If the hypothetical second clay grandslam had Madrid conditions, Nadal would not have been more successful than he is in the current state of being two hard majors, one clay major and one grass major.

 

[ND-13]

We can play this game in many different ways. If there were an indoor major, Nadal would have 15 GS titles and he not holder of the Career Grand Slam. Even with the two clay majors, it's not as clear as many think. What if it was grandslam with green clay, like USO 1975-1977? I'd say Nadal wouldn't be as successful on the grandslam with green clay as on RG. Or Madrid, for example, a clay tournament but with lower ball bounces, that's why Nadal is not as successful there as at RG or in Rome.
In tennis, a lot depends on the conditions - speed, bounce height, etc. If the hypothetical second clay grandslam had Madrid conditions, Nadal would not have been more successful than he is in the current state of being two hard majors, one clay major and one grass major.

Nadal has not prioritized Madrid because he wants a good tune up at Monte Carlo, Barcelona is his home tournament and he has to peak at Rome / RG

There is nothing that is impossible for Nadal on clay.

Nadal on clay = making Impossible a possibility

If there were 2 clay majors, not only Nadal’s count goes up but the count of Djokovic and Federer goes down with 1 HC less.

 

[kevaninho]

Federer's ahead of both of them in all the major tennis records. If Roger's "a little weak," then logically, the two guys with inferior resumes chasing him must be far "weaker."

In any case, anyone calling any of the big three "weak" isn't objective, they're simply moronic.

Well if Novak continues winning titles for another 5 years and adding to his weeks at number 1, Feds records are going to be shattered in a big way.

Why compare stuff that Federer has on his resume as something extra special, when he had a 5 year head start to make records on his closest competitors?

It can only truly be analysed once careers are over.

 

[Deleted member 22147]

For me, Graf is far superior to S. Williams.

 

[Enceladus]

Nadal has not prioritized Madrid because he wants a good tune up at Monte Carlo, Barcelona is his home tournament and he has to peak at Rome / RG

There is nothing that is impossible for Nadal on clay.

Nadal on clay = making Impossible a possibility

If there were 2 clay majors, not only Nadal’s count goes up but the count of Djokovic and Federer goes down with 1 HC less.

At Nadal it depends on the height of the bounce of the balls. High bounces are the ideal conditions for him, the lower the rebounds, the more vulnerable is he for his rivals. On RG, the conditions for his game are ideal, but that might not be on the hypothetical second clay grandslam.

We know examples from tennis history where the results of the tennis player were very different on two Grand Slams with the same surface. Navratilova won a record 9 titles in Wimbledon, but only 3 titles on the AO (which was played on the grass until 1987). Borg won RG 6 times, but never won USO, although it was played on clay in 1975-77. Nole also - he gained record 8 AO titles, but won USO only 3 times. Although the two Grand Slams have the same surface, conditions may vary to the extent, that it affects his success. There is no guarantee that Nadal would be as successful on the hypothetical second clay grandslam as on RG.

 

[netlets]

I think that Serena will go down in history as the greatest female player ever. She has been so good over such a long period of time. Truly amazing. Sadly, I think that her pregnancy put aside any chance of her surpassing Margaret Court for most singles Slams of all time. Court's record is over-inflated by her 11 Oz titles, at a time when players could not afford to travel down under to play there. As for the men, I would stick with Roger, even if Rafa passes him for career singles Slams. At his best, Roger was unbelievable. he hit shots that no one else in the world could hit. He redefined the game. Rafa is top heavy at Roland Garros (12 titles, going on 13), and his HTH against roger is unbalanced because of their many clay court meetings where Rafa is virtually unbeatable. But it also showed that Roger was not afraid to play him on clay (even at the expense of their HTH record), and knew that he would probably lose. Roger is a class act all the way. And at 39 or close to it, both are still teaching youngsters how to play matches and winning matches against more youthful and hungrier opponents.

Totally disagree about Serena. How she is considered ahead of Graf makes no sense to me. Graf has one less Slam and the calendar Grand Slam - the toughest thing to do in tennis. When Graf retired at 31 she had 13 more slams than Serena at 31 - 13! She is the only woman in the modern game to do it and it was a Golden Slam to boot! I would much rather have Graf's career achievements than Serena's.

 

[Fiero425]

Totally disagree about Serena. How she is considered ahead of Graf makes no sense to me. Graf has one less Slam and the calendar Grand Slam - the toughest thing to do in tennis. When Graf retired at 31 she had 13 more slams than Serena at 31 - 13! She is the only woman in the modern game to do it and it was a Golden Slam to boot! I would much rather have Graf's career achievements than Serena's.

The thing is, I also have an asterisk behind Graf's name due to Seles' stabbing! How she went about her business after one of her countrymen assaulted her rival is still beyond me! IMO, no one can ever outdo the career of Navratilova! She truly has twice as many accolades as most greats! OTTH she won 167 singles, 177 doubles, had well over 300 weeks as #1, 59 majors (18S, 31D, & 10 MxD), owns the Box Set as of 2003 AO MxD title, played all major events for 20 years, retired for 6 years only to return to continue winning doubles tournaments until she was nearly 50 years old at the '06 USO MxD final! She didn't take extended vacations away from the tour like Serena either who I consider an "underachiever" after all's said and done! She didn't stay in shape, preferring to play her way into a tourney & had too many outside interests!

 

[KINGROGER]

Serena, possible if she wins slam or two, if not I will remember her for being do close but lost do many times one step before finishing goal...

Federer? Buahahahaha... Owned RodDick & Hew, and got owned by Rafa & Novak...

Federer owned Novak when he was age 25-30. Novak owned 30s Federer.

 

[beard]

Federer owned Novak when he was age 25-30. Novak owned 30s Federer.

6-11...
1-3 W, 1-4 AO His best slams, buahaa...

Age excuse? He got old against Novak and young against Nadal?

Sorry, he hot owned...

 

[KINGROGER]

6-11...
1-3 W, 1-4 AO His best slams, buahaa...

Age excuse? He got old against Novak and young against Nadal?

Sorry, he hot owned...

Not by Djokovic he didn’t. Up until 2012 (his last prime season) he led their h2h. Naturally, Djokovic took over once Fed declined even more. His best slams were w/uso and he was 4-2 over Novak there during his best years while going 1-2 at AO.


I’ll give you nadal. He owned Fed at slams from 2008-2014.

 

[beard]

Not by Djokovic he didn’t. Up until 2012 (his last prime season) he led their h2h. Naturally, Djokovic took over once Fed declined even more. His best slams were w/uso and he was 4-2 over Novak there during his best years while going 1-2 at AO.


I’ll give you nadal. He owned Fed at slams from 2008-2014.

6-11....fact

Old Federer.... excuse.... opinion

"Old" Fed own Nadal, "old" Fed is owned by Novak... fact


Bold... why only 2008-2014? He got younger against him?

 

[netlets]

The thing is, I also have an asterisk behind Graf's name due to Seles' stabbing! How she went about her business after one of her countrymen assaulted her rival is still beyond me! IMO, no one can ever outdo the career of Navratilova! She truly has twice as many accolades as most greats! OTTH she won 167 singles, 177 doubles, had well over 300 weeks as #1, 59 majors (18S, 31D, & 10 MxD), owns the Box Set as of 2003 AO MxD title, played all major events for 20 years, retired for 6 years only to return to continue winning doubles tournaments until she was nearly 50 years old at the '06 USO MxD final! She didn't take extended vacations away from the tour like Serena either who I consider an "underachiever" after all's said and done! She didn't stay in shape, preferring to play her way into a tourney & had too many outside interests!

I can actually see Martina as the Goat. She won so many titles and had a truly dominant few years. I don't think you can blame Graf - she visited Seles in the hospital. What was she supposed to do? You probably have to say Martina was the best all around female player in history if you count singles and dubs.

 

[netlets]

I can actually see Martina as the Goat. She won so many titles and had a truly dominant few years. I don't think you can blame Graf - she visited Seles in the hospital. What was she supposed to do? You probably have to say Martina was the best all around female player in history if you count singles and dubs. I agree with you on Serena.

 

[BorgCash]

I think that Serena will go down in history as the greatest female player ever. She has been so good over such a long period of time. Truly amazing. Sadly, I think that her pregnancy put aside any chance of her surpassing Margaret Court for most singles Slams of all time. Court's record is over-inflated by her 11 Oz titles, at a time when players could not afford to travel down under to play there. As for the men, I would stick with Roger, even if Rafa passes him for career singles Slams. At his best, Roger was unbelievable. he hit shots that no one else in the world could hit. He redefined the game. Rafa is top heavy at Roland Garros (12 titles, going on 13), and his HTH against roger is unbalanced because of their many clay court meetings where Rafa is virtually unbeatable. But it also showed that Roger was not afraid to play him on clay (even at the expense of their HTH record), and knew that he would probably lose. Roger is a class act all the way. And at 39 or close to it, both are still teaching youngsters how to play matches and winning matches against more youthful and hungrier opponents.

No way concerning this main shame of tennis - racsist, sexist, etc...

 

[Deleted member 769694]

Court = most gs's
Martina = most tourney wins
Chrissy = highest winning %
Graf = most dominate year
Serena = ???

 

[pj80]

theres an * on feds resume....especially now that nole and rafa cant add to theirs

 

[bjsnider]

Who's Serena Rogers? I think Suzanne Lenglen is the greatest ever, so there.

 

[Deleted member 769694]

theres an * on feds resume....especially now that nole and rafa cant add to theirs

Do you put an * on serena's resume when she failed her drug test after the 2015 french open final?

 

[pj80]

Do you put an * on serena's resume when she failed her drug test after the 2015 french open final?

I am unaware that she did.

 

[BeatlesFan]

Hello, why isn't those 5 or 6 yrs xtra on tour counted by U guys? It's used to explain away so much; why not give Nadovic a few more yrs to supplant the GOAT?

Why? Is this a serious question? Because you cannot predict the future. If you could, why didn't you predict the present pandemic?

Federer's records are what they are NOW. You can think Djokovic will supplant the GOAT, but until he does, it's a fantasy. It's not reality. It's just as likely that in a "few more years" Novak has 17 slams or 18. To paraphrase you:

"Hello, why isn't you counting 2024 in like 6 years when he's GOAT to every1 but U guys?"

 

[Fiero425]

Why? Is this a serious question? Because you cannot predict the future. If you could, why didn't you predict the present pandemic?

Federer's records are what they are NOW. You can think Djokovic will supplant the GOAT, but until he does, it's a fantasy. It's not reality. It's just as likely that in a "few more years" Novak has 17 slams or 18. To paraphrase you:

"Hello, why isn't you counting 2024 in like 6 years when he's GOAT to every1 but U guys?"

Fine, don't give Djokovic credit for what he might do! I think he's already had one of the best careers in the game and has already outdone and supplanted Fedal in some areas even with his youth! He's won all 14 ATP events; 12 multiple times! That's all I'm saying; he's already done a lot and we can only assume he'll do a little more before all's said and done!

 

[netlets]

The reason I think Graf and Martina are ahead of Serena is that in Graf's case she won the hardest thing to do in tennis - The Grand Slam and she added a gold that year - so 4 times harder than even just the Grand Slam. That is the most coveted achievement in tennis. Serena didn't do it. Almost every great player in history didn't do it. The pressure is enormous leading into the US Open. Martina's argument is she has way more Slams if you count doubles. Also, in Graf's defense, she had way more total Slams when both were the age that Graf retired. I think 11 more - so her Slam winning percentage for titles is far better.

 

[flutzingitaway]

Court = most gs's
Martina = most tourney wins
Chrissy = highest winning %
Graf = most dominate year
Serena = ???

Court has more tournament wins actually. She has 199 to Martina's 167. That is unless you are only counting Open Era tournaments, which I get if you are, but then Serena would also have the most slams if that is your personal philosophy. Personally I credit all records, including Open Era ones, that by logic Court has most slams and most tournaments both.

Graf does not have the most dominant year. That is either Martina's 83 where she went 86-1 but the 1 loss was a huge one. Or Court's 1970 where she also did the Grand Slam but lost fewer matches than Graf, and Graf lost at the 5th biggest event- YEC.

 

[flutzingitaway]

Federer's ahead of both of them in all the major tennis records. If Roger's "a little weak," then logically, the two guys with inferior resumes chasing him must be far "weaker."

In any case, anyone calling any of the big three "weak" isn't objective, they're simply moronic.

One thing to remember though is had it been Open Era tennis back then Laver, Rosewall, Gonzales, and possibly Tilden would all for sure have more slams than Djokovic, and probably more than Federer/Nadal. Hard to compare though. That was such a different era in every sense.

That is very different from the womens game which never had a lucrative pro game taking the best players away from slam tennis for years as the mens had from 1920s-1967. So the womens slam counts are far more accurate. The mens instead has a nobody like Emerson with 12 and a GOAT like Gonzales with 2.

 

[ScentOfDefeat]

Nope.

 

[alexio]

Nope.

Serena: "Roger is the The Greatest Ever"

 

[125downthemiddle]

Fine, don't give Djokovic credit for what he might do! I think he's already had one of the best careers in the game and has already outdone and supplanted Fedal in some areas even with his youth! He's won all 14 ATP events; 12 multiple times! That's all I'm saying; he's already done a lot and we can only assume he'll do a little more before all's said and done!

Agreed here, yes things can change etc etc., but when some are closing in on records, to note what is likely to happen or appears imminent only makes logical sense. We can debate all day exactly how likely it is.

It's not the same as saying they have already achieved it so there is no issue really with making reasonable projections. The landscape and feel of the sport changes when players A and B are in striking distance of C.

 

[ohiostate124]

Serena... no. I agree with @Fiero425 that there are a lot of women with that claim, not the least of which are Graf, Evert, and Navratilova. Seriously, where was Serena ever the lock Chrissy was on clay? Yes, there were some years during which Serena was absolutely dominant, but she didn't do that with the kind of consistency of an Evert, Graf, or Navratilova.

The jury is still out on the men's game, though I think Federer had tougher competition in his prime than either Nadal or Djokovic. The field has been seriously weak since about 2013. We will see. Will Novak break Fed's weeks? Will Nadal break the slam count? All three are astounding players. I have my preferences there, though, so I am hardly an objective judge.

This is a big part of why Federer is the goat to me. Imagine if Nadal and Djokovic had goat candidate players that were 5-6 years younger than them constantly nipping at their heels. Instead, i’ve lost count of how many failed next gens we’ve been through at this point.

 

[Deleted member 769694]

Serena would also have the most slams if that is your personal philosophy.

I still have serena tied with graf. She failed a drug test in the 2015 french open final, should of been disqualified. The ITF stepped in and told wada to give her a retroactive TUE

 

[pat200]

I still have serena tied with graf. She failed a drug test in the 2015 french open final, should of been disqualified. The ITF stepped in and told wada to give her a retroactive TUE

if this is true, then the whole sports of tennis is a scam

 

[Deleted member 769694]

if this is true, then the whole sports of tennis is a scam

Tennis is a great sport, pro tennis is very corrupt

There are plenty of articles, in these two she reminds us of her child and called testing of her "discrimination".

Tandon: A closer look at Serena Williams' Therapeutic Use Exemptions | Tennis.com

Williams has become increasingly vocal on Twitter, insisting she

www.tennis.com

Serena Williams defends use of a TUE on her way to winning 2015 French Open

"I am never, ever going to take an advantage over someone else," says the 23-time major winner when asked about incident.

www.thenational.ae

 

[upchuck]

At the very least, Graf can't be the GOAT because of Seles' stabbing, which changed the course of history like no other event in the history of the sport. A massive asterisk to Graf's legacy etc etc.

 

[Fiero425]

At the very least, Graf can't be the GOAT because of Seles' stabbing, which changed the course of history like no other event in the history of the sport. A massive asterisk to Graf's legacy etc etc.

All past champions are dwarfed by Martina Navratilova's tenure for well over 20 years on the WTA tour w/ 167 singles titles & 177 doubles! It's just much too difficult to overlook that record! Only Evert comes close in singles with 157 titles, but she's not even in the running for GOAT; maybe like Rafa she's the "clay GOAT!" The rest of the women are woefully behind; even Graf at 107 singles titles! This wasn't the roaring 20's where Suzanne ruled over inferior talent! Martina had to deal with and overcome a ton of HOF'rs including Evert, Goolagong, Court, King, Wade, Mandlikova, Sanchez-V., Capriati, Graf, & Seles! I doubt Serena can hang on until she's almost 50 to win her last major when she's struggling now in her 30's!

 

[flutzingitaway]

if this is true, then the whole sports of tennis is a scam

Sport is a scam period. Did you not hear of the all the cover ups of positive American drug tests in the 84 LA Olympics, in all sports. Especialy track and field and swimming. Which is all the more galling when the U.S is the first to point the finger at others. GDR ran and got away with an organized doping ring for almost 20 years before the wall came down, and today keep hundreds of ill gotten Olympic Golds from 72-88. And the whole Lance Armstrong and friends doping pyramid scheme that went off without a hitch for a decade. Don't forget the home run derby in baseball with Sosa, McGuire, Bonds.

I am sure there is tons of doping in tennis. I won't name names, but I would be willing to bet a decent ratio of top 10 and top 20 players or even tour regulars are on something. The stars will never get caught though, that is almost a guarantee. It is obvious why Maria got caught. Look at what has happened to all Russian athletes and Russians losing Olympic medals. While I am not defending Russia and I am sure there was widespread cheating (as there is far many countries in both pro and amateur sport) someone from Russia p-ed of the wrong person and now they are paying the price. That included their big tennis star getting caught and the perfect scapegoat for that sport so now they don't need another "star" caught for awhile. Maria took the fall for the sport, she was the equivalent of diving on a bomb to save her friends or her allies in a war. Now they don't have to take another hit for awhile, and they won't. Wayne Odesnik types will keep getting caught though to prove the sport is "clean"

 

[Deleted member 769694]

Sport is a scam period. Did you not hear of the all the cover ups of positive American drug tests in the 84 LA Olympics, in all sports. Especialy track and field and swimming. Which is all the more galling when the U.S is the first to point the finger at others. GDR ran and got away with an organized doping ring for almost 20 years before the wall came down, and today keep hundreds of ill gotten Olympic Golds from 72-88. And the whole Lance Armstrong and friends doping pyramid scheme that went off without a hitch for a decade. Don't forget the home run derby in baseball with Sosa, McGuire, Bonds.

I am sure there is tons of doping in tennis. I won't name names, but I would be willing to bet a decent ratio of top 10 and top 20 players or even tour regulars are on something. The stars will never get caught though, that is almost a guarantee. It is obvious why Maria got caught. Look at what has happened to all Russian athletes and Russians losing Olympic medals. While I am not defending Russia and I am sure there was widespread cheating (as there is far many countries in both pro and amateur sport) someone from Russia p-ed of the wrong person and now they are paying the price. That included their big tennis star getting caught and the perfect scapegoat for that sport so now they don't need another "star" caught for awhile. Maria took the fall for the sport, she was the equivalent of diving on a bomb to save her friends or her allies in a war. Now they don't have to take another hit for awhile, and they won't. Wayne Odesnik types will keep getting caught though to prove the sport is "clean"

After learning yesterday about the fbi and their false narrative with russian collusion makes me wonder if the 2016 olmypic banning of "all" russian athlete's for a drug made in 1971 goes beyond sport.

Buy hey, we (USA) won the games. Sport is about competition, respect your opponent. Your still a cheater even though your black and have a daughter. Serena/wada/itf robbed Safarova from her claim to fame. As someone who plays, i find this dispecable

 

[flutzingitaway]

After learning yesterday about the fbi and their false narrative with russian collusion makes me wonder if the 2016 olmypic banning of "all" russian athlete's for a drug made in 1971 goes beyond sport.

Buy hey, we (USA) won the games. Sport is about competition, respect your opponent.

Oh it totally goes beyond sport. That is my whole point. Tennis should thank Maria though. They got their scapegoat, their big star caught by the vigorous tennis anti doping program, so don't look for another big name in tennis to fail a drug test for another 15 years or so. Look for many more Wayne Odesniks' to fail 2 or 3 drug tests in their careers though, and to be splashed all over the news. Justifying tennis's strong anti doping program.

 

[Deleted member 769694]

The tour is such a joke, they ban guys from egypt for making a few hundred $$ knowing their buddy met a woman last night. Yet are fixing matches with their tue's so the big sponsored players we happen to "always" see on tv, with the same annoucers drooling over them in repetition verbatim claiming trophys

Its all a structure. Hard to explain But one hand washes the other

 

[Enceladus]

Court has more tournament wins actually. She has 199 to Martina's 167. That is unless you are only counting Open Era tournaments, which I get if you are, but then Serena would also have the most slams if that is your personal philosophy. Personally I credit all records, including Open Era ones, that by logic Court has most slams and most tournaments both.

Graf does not have the most dominant year. That is either Martina's 83 where she went 86-1 but the 1 loss was a huge one. Or Court's 1970 where she also did the Grand Slam but lost fewer matches than Graf, and Graf lost at the 5th biggest event- YEC.

Martina has more sanctioned tournament titles - 167 (record), Margaret 92 (4th in ranking).

 

[Deleted member 22147]

i think comparing eras is quite stupid.

I am surprised, however, how many put Serena Williams over Steffi Graf. I'd have to put it down to recency bias, which is rampant among tennis fans.