Slice BH help
- Thread starter KINGROGER
- Start date
SinjinCooper
Hall of Fame
- Stay sideways before and through contact
- Step into ball as it approaches
- Weight over front foot as you hit ball
- Take back with as straight an arm as you comfortably can*
- Swing forward with as straight an arm as you comfortably can
- Swing from shoulder
- Keep wrist firm and locked throughout stroke*
- Follow through towards target
- Racquet face open at furthest point of takeback, almost vertical at point of contact
- Swing is more horizontal against flatter incoming balls, steeper high-to-low against spinnier incoming balls**
** = Beware looking too closely at modern players for inspiration, because they almost all use EXTREMELY vertical swingpaths on their slices, because they HAVE TO. Incoming pro balls are arriving with 3000+ rpm of filthy, filthy topspin. Your incoming balls are not. Look to the 90s and before for inspiration.
purple-n-gold
Hall of Fame
step in and knock the sh*t out of it!
ps.. downwards
ps.. downwards
S&V-not_dead_yet
Talk Tennis Guru
The only drawback is that I want a gauge of how deeply the shot went and I can only extrapolate that with the wall. But I agree that I can get into a easier rhythm slicing against a wall compared to topspin.
Doc Hollidae
Hall of Fame
It is common for people to think they need to chop at the ball to create slice. Your swing path should be more linear rather than up and down. You should be using a continental grip. Think a flat like swing path and let the angle of the racket face create the spin.
Limpinhitter
G.O.A.T.
What's most confusing and what trouble do you specifically have?
A good shoulder turn is universally recommended advice on slice backhand, you want to be able to touch the right shoulder with your chin (metaphorically, that's how much you want to turn).
Personally, a good tip on how to hit through the shot so that you don't chop at the ball is to take the racket back at the same height as the incoming ball.
This goes against "take the racket back high" advice, but once you get a feel for hitting through, you can take the racket back high.
C
Chadillac
Guest
Think of it as a flat shot with a slice follow through.
The ball doesn't go anywhere I just sort of shank it up and struggle for clean contact so I'm probably doing it completely wrong.
Thanks for all the replies I'll study them closely before I take to the court this weekend.
dimkin
Hall of Fame
this one is nice, but I struggle with the timing of the vertical "slap" with horizontal push-follow-through ...
Limpinhitter
G.O.A.T.
What you're looking at is pronation of the forearm in the backswing in which the racquet head drops below the hand, and supinating the forearm in the forward swing accelerating the racquet head into the ball. This technique can be used on all drive slice backhands on any height ball, and was the bread and butter backhand of the wood racquet era. Unfortunately, the drive slice is a lost art.
dimkin
Hall of Fame
See, I get the pronation/supination sequence, and I can do it, what I often face is then the RH leading the arm and I completely lose control, and slap the ball . . .
Dragy
Legend
You couldn't find any single modern (well, just slowmo good quality) video of slice backhand to be good enough to put it together with that Wilson ad, could you?
The thing I struggle with slice is floating. With topspin drive RHS is my friend, my duty is to choose proper swingpath. With slice I feel like I have to control the racquet speed, do it with limited effort. But if I do it weak, the shot might fall short and be sitting up. How do I approach this, apart from "practice more"?
Todd Hicks
Rookie
Do the same thing you would do with your FH in which you bring your racket head under the ball with a flat stroke then lift the ball enough to get it over the net.
Limpinhitter
G.O.A.T.
See, I get the pronation/supination sequence, and I can do it, what I often face is then the RH leading the arm and I completely lose control, and slap the ball . . .
Your contact point may be too far forward where the racquet face is open. A 1hb drive slice should be hit from a closed stance starting with your back to the target, with a straight arm and the racquet head below the hand. From there you rotate your upper body, dip your right shoulder, and supinate your forearm at the same time making contact at or behind your lead foot. From there you carve under the ball, and at the finish, your chest is facing the target and your racquet is high with the top poining up.
Limpinhitter
G.O.A.T.
See my last post to the OP above.
fuzz nation
G.O.A.T.
Hitting a slice with some decent drive is rather counterintuitive. In my experience, it's probably one of the trickiest shots to teach.
A topspin stroke works better when we swing out to the ball - the racquet has some room to accelerate out in front of us before contact. A slice with some drive to it includes making contact much earlier in the racquet's progression before it can get going really fast (good news: it doesn't need to). The racquet hand ideally leads the racquet throughout, so there's no action where the wrist turns over and allows the racquet to release and pass ahead of it.
A proper follow through may feel like you've pulled the ripcord on a parachute - not something you'd do only halfway, right? So racquet arm sweeps out to full extension at the finish somewhat off to the right (for a right-handed player) with the tip of the racquet pointed generally in the direction of your target. You want to maintain that "L" formed between your forearm and the racquet throat all the way to your finish.
Again, best contact happens more back beside the hitter than with a topspin stroke. This is the weird part, but if you experiment with it, you'll probably find the best spot. To initiate your forward swing, don't think so much about using the shoulder of your racquet arm. Get everything going by leaning forward shoulder-first onto your front foot. With your racquet arm set out to your side and trailing your front shoulder, that forward lean gives you plenty of leverage to virtually "drag" the racquet forward with your body weight. As you lean onto your shot, it will feel like gravity is taking you and your racquet through the ball.
ricki
Hall of Fame
just be careful to not play it in front of you (unless it is really low)
Bender
G.O.A.T.
Actually, another thing that helped me (the knowledgeable posters / coaches on these boards may disagree with me) is to keep the takeback tiny at first.
You're really just going back to basics really, because the downward, chopping motion is still completely possible with a takeback that's just to your side (as if you were to hit a backhand punch volley). The bigger takeback over your shoulder is not 100% necessary. Drop shots tend to be hit this way as well for most 2HBH players.
Once you have a feel for the forward contact point, and leaning into the backhand slice becomes second nature (giving it depth and bite), then you can reintroduce a bigger takeback if at that point you still consider the backspin to be insufficient.
Did I mention how much I hate this video?
What a ****ing sh*t instructional video.
Edit: yes, I did.
You're really just going back to basics really, because the downward, chopping motion is still completely possible with a takeback that's just to your side (as if you were to hit a backhand punch volley). The bigger takeback over your shoulder is not 100% necessary. Drop shots tend to be hit this way as well for most 2HBH players.
Once you have a feel for the forward contact point, and leaning into the backhand slice becomes second nature (giving it depth and bite), then you can reintroduce a bigger takeback if at that point you still consider the backspin to be insufficient.
Did I mention how much I hate this video?
What a ****ing sh*t instructional video.
Edit: yes, I did.
D
Deleted member 23235
Guest
heninfan99
Talk Tennis Guru
8:54 in.
mntlblok
Hall of Fame
Love the Feel Tennis guy, but he fails to point out that the racket face squares up, or becomes nearly vertical at contact. Wish the Henin portion had some slow motion.
Had the video camera out yesterday whilst hitting with a fellow who was a top junior about twenty years ago. Recruited a couple of nice players from the next court to demonstrate their old school, flatter, less spinny slices. Also broke down and tried playing with the Kinovea software. Might be making some progress. Will see if I can get some edited video posted. Learning both the software and a bit more about slice backhand variations in the process. . .
kb
mntlblok
Hall of Fame
Here's some of my flailing around with video and software in an attempt to look at what's going on with slice backhands. The third of the freeze frames above shoulda been left out. The Kinovea "free Dartfish" seems to maybe have some potential. . .Love the Feel Tennis guy, but he fails to point out that the racket face squares up, or becomes nearly vertical at contact. Wish the Henin portion had some slow motion.
Had the video camera out yesterday whilst hitting with a fellow who was a top junior about twenty years ago. Recruited a couple of nice players from the next court to demonstrate their old school, flatter, less spinny slices. Also broke down and tried playing with the Kinovea software. Might be making some progress. Will see if I can get some edited video posted. Learning both the software and a bit more about slice backhand variations in the process. . .
kb
Looks like there's variation in amount of acceleration in the strokes, the degree of steepness in the down-swing, and the amount of elbow bend in the back-swing - with less of all of those with the flatter, old school swings, but also less pace and spin.
I've found that the more spin and pace I use, the more effective the shot, *and* the more consistently I can hit it. It varies, of course, with how troublesome the incoming shot is.
kb
tried one with a tiny-headed racket
and this one was actually an incredible bit of ad-libbing. I think he actually ended up hitting a topspin backhand
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dimkin
Hall of Fame
Here's some of my flailing around with video and software in an attempt to look at what's going on with slice backhands. The third of the freeze frames above shoulda been left out. The Kinovea "free Dartfish" seems to maybe have some potential. . .
Looks like there's variation in amount of acceleration in the strokes, the degree of steepness in the down-swing, and the amount of elbow bend in the back-swing - with less of all of those with the flatter, old school swings, but also less pace and spin.
I've found that the more spin and pace I use, the more effective the shot, *and* the more consistently I can hit it. It varies, of course, with how troublesome the incoming shot is.
kb
tried one with a tiny-headed racket
and this one was actually an incredible bit of ad-libbing. I think he actually ended up hitting a topspin backhand
Great stuff with #1 seeming the best looking shot
mntlblok
Hall of Fame
Thanks. #1 has been a high level player in the past, but just getting back into the game - thus the 1 and love result against me last time out.
chikoo
Hall of Fame
They happen together.
tennisreflectslife
Rookie
Really good points here. Not sure if I can add more to these ! Continental grip haha. But everyone knows that.
Dragy
Legend
Nice stuff. Actually 1st and 3rd are clear slices, while 2nd is more of a drive (push?) with some backspin. I mean qualities of shots are different.Here's some of my flailing around with video and software in an attempt to look at what's going on with slice backhands. The third of the freeze frames above shoulda been left out. The Kinovea "free Dartfish" seems to maybe have some potential. . .
Looks like there's variation in amount of acceleration in the strokes, the degree of steepness in the down-swing, and the amount of elbow bend in the back-swing - with less of all of those with the flatter, old school swings, but also less pace and spin.
I've found that the more spin and pace I use, the more effective the shot, *and* the more consistently I can hit it. It varies, of course, with how troublesome the incoming shot is.
kb
tried one with a tiny-headed racket
and this one was actually an incredible bit of ad-libbing. I think he actually ended up hitting a topspin backhand
What I noticed and what I'm trying in practice is the first guy leaning into shot with his right shoulder which actually allows for that swingpath. (You?) on the 3rd video stay upright. I have a guess that for waist height contacts and lower the lean is crucial. For higher balls it changes for more upright and finishing towards the target, well, intentionally (the actual follow-through will still flow across the body naturally).
tennisreflectslife
Rookie
Nice points ! I also feel that when I am not hitting penetrating slice more often than not it can be fixed by letting the ball come closer to me and then lean into it while hitting.
chikoo
Hall of Fame
Why do you want to slice? Is there a time in your game when you feel none of the shots you know are working for you? If you shed some light on it, it would be helpful.
SinjinCooper
Hall of Fame
And while we're at it, why would you want a second serve? I recommend just getting all your first serves in and never having to worry about it.
Add variety
Get out of situations where I can't set up OHBH but not have to float one back which is what I'd do now a lot.
chikoo
Hall of Fame
Sounds right time to slice. Fruit Jinja.
mntlblok
Hall of Fame
Yep, stepping too much sideways and not enough forward is one of my flaws. I chalk it up to laziness. If I step forward, then I also have to step back after the shot. An awful lot of trouble. Similar issue with bending the knees. I did get a diagnosis of hypothyroid today. I *love* excuses!!
Right up there with my Asperger's. . .
