Tennis Instruction Malpractice?

[wings56]

I think it depends where these ladies are trying to go. If they are trying to improve beyond 3.0, then it will likely be more beneficial to learn the correct way. If they are just trying to have fun... not move levels, but just be a better version of themselves, then I think what he did was perfect.

Honestly, those looking to improve beyond level will likely be pursuing private instruction instead of group... I think what he did was appropriate considering the circumstances.

 

[wings56]

Here's the thing:

There is a difference between *tolerating* wrong technique and *teaching* wrong technique.

Second, I think if you are really teaching clinics of 15-25 players, I don't even know what to say. It is not possible to teach anything in that setting. And if you are teaching 15-25 players spread across five courts with five pros, there will be no consistency no matter what you do. You and your bosses have to come up with a teaching plan and you just have to go with it, frying pan grip and all.

Next, and I mean this in the nicest possible way . . . I have an issue with the way you speak about your students. I imagine my early teaching pros figured I would top out at 3.5. They could have dismissed me and figure it was a waste of effort to show me the difference between right and wrong. But they didn't, and I have been a 4.0 for four years now. Sure, there are players who just want you to blow sunshine up their skirt. But there are plenty of players who genuinely want to move up (as a captain I hear this so much I am sick to death of it). Granted, they may not be taking clinics with 25 students in them, but they are out there and want to actually get something for their money.

Isn't part of the reward of teaching anything the pleasure that comes from seeing your students get better? Why would a pro actively teach and demonstrate frying pan technique, secretly harboring a belief that these students will never amount to much? Why not go find another way to make a living rather than endure such unrewarding work? I remember something my current pro said to me some years ago. He said it pained him to see his students play badly. He would be horrified to see me waddling backward for an overhead and would never think the solution was to teach me better waddling technique.

Further on the subject of professional pride . . . keep in mind that veteran players see you. We see how you interact with your students. We see if you can run a good lesson. And we talk about you. If we see you teaching jacked up technique, if we see your students never getting better, word of mouth won't go well for you and your book of business may suffer. Over the years, many people have asked me which pro to use at XYZ club because I played a lot and captained a lot or because they wanted to learn something they saw me do. I promise you I won't recommend the one teaching spreadeagle overheads.

Finally, we need to take a minute to chase a straw man out of the building. You wrote, "Do you also think rigorous emphasis on technique is the way to approach casual rec players . . . ." No one is saying that you should have rigorous emphasis on technique. But come on. Waddling backward for an overhead with a frying pan swing? That's downright dangerous because people can easily trip and fall and get hurt. If the players are going to do that when you are telling them to turn sideways, there is nothing you can do. I would think a pro's conscience would preclude them from actually pausing the clinic to demonstrate the spreadeagle and offer it as a viable option.

This is the big thing. This is absolutely unwarranted and would be blasphemous in private instruction. I think the group session draws a crowd that is less concerned with perfect technique and more concerned with functionality.

 

[wings56]

I know you mean no insult, but I would not call a 3.0 a beginner.

A 3.0 is a player who, for whatever reason, struggles against 3.5 players. Those reasons can be being a newbie. But the reason can also be simply infrequency of play, injury, lack of athletic ability, or age.

My sister has been a 3.0 for 12 years. She took up the sport as a 2.5, got bumped up, took a very long hiatus, then hurt her knee and had two surgeries, and now she travels so much and works such long hours that she rarely plays. And since she is my older sister, she is older. I think 3.0 suits her at the moment.

To my ears, then, this sounds needlessly dismissive: "No biggi imo at that level (3.0 isn't even remotely close to decent play in the grand scheme of things. 3.0 is bare beginner imo)." I say 3.0 is one of many stepping stones on someone's tennis journey, and it is no more or less worthy of respect than 4.0.

Anyway, you never answered my question, which is this: Is there any chance you would have actually demonstrated the spreadeagle frying pan smash if the 3.0 league ladies were getting frustrated at the direction to turn when going back for their smash?

A 12 year veteran of the 3.0 level is likely to never be able to properly hit an overhead with a continental grip. This player will likely have more long term success in trying to hone in non-conventional techniques as opposed to trying to learn a more conventional technique.

 

[Cindysphinx]

A 12 year veteran of the 3.0 level is likely to never be able to properly hit an overhead with a continental grip. This player will likely have more long term success in trying to hone in non-conventional techniques as opposed to trying to learn a more conventional technique.

Actually, you are incorrect about this.

As I explained before, sis has not been playing for 12 years at 3.0. She has had very long breaks, coupled with injuries.

But here's the encouraging thing.

After her most recent knee surgery, she decided to return to USTA league tennis. That was last spring. She decided to make an effort to do the thing properly this time, and we talked about what that might mean. She in particular wanted my thoughts on what to work on first if she wanted to get to 3.5 or 4.0 someday (all of her friends did not take a hiatus and are now at those levels).

I said the single most important thing was to commit to using the correct grips.

Well, what do you know? She took a few lessons and can now use a Continental grip to serve!

It is straight up adorable to watch (and I mean that in the best possible way). She hits her serve, and it has slice. Not enough slice to bother someone at a higher level, but slice is something that 3.0 opponents have never experienced. She now gets aces and service winners without having changed anything but her grip. She is still working on mastering it, but I encouraged her to use it every single time, no matter how important the point is. I think she has become a believer because she has seen how much opponents will T off on her old, straight serve, but will struggle with these off-pace spinny serves she now hits.

Next on her to-do list: Volleying with the correct grips. That will be a long-term project. But the key to being competitive in senior tennis is being able to volley well so you don't have to run a lot, so I think that should be the next goal.

Cindy -- hoping to play a 3.5 tournament with her sister someday because at the rate things are going they will both be 3.5s soon

 

[tennis tom]

If she's got a conti for her serve then she already has the volley grip.

 

[Cindysphinx]

If she's got a conti for her serve then she already has the volley grip.

It is one thing to have Conti for the serve, and quite another to remember to maintain it after the serve if she is moving into the court and not if she is staying back.

I remember I had considerable grip confusion when I started transitioning to net more. Heck, the other night I kept hitting my overheads in eastern FH grip. I missed every single one.

 

[tennis_ocd]

I think of myself as a "bad" tennis player. Nothing harsh about it. The 4.5's and higher are the good tennis players at my club and I'm nowhere near that level...

lol. Was recently idly talking tennis on a drive from the airport when an older, 2x grand slam winner turned to me from the passenger seat; "are you a good tennis player?" Just froze me. Stuttered something to her about having fun and being ok in what we call rec tennis. "Never step onto a court without a clear reward for winning." Still haven't figured that one out.... I think we have drastically different views on the game.

 

[wings56]

Actually, you are incorrect about this.

As I explained before, sis has not been playing for 12 years at 3.0. She has had very long breaks, coupled with injuries.

But here's the encouraging thing.

After her most recent knee surgery, she decided to return to USTA league tennis. That was last spring. She decided to make an effort to do the thing properly this time, and we talked about what that might mean. She in particular wanted my thoughts on what to work on first if she wanted to get to 3.5 or 4.0 someday (all of her friends did not take a hiatus and are now at those levels).

I said the single most important thing was to commit to using the correct grips.

Well, what do you know? She took a few lessons and can now use a Continental grip to serve!

It is straight up adorable to watch (and I mean that in the best possible way). She hits her serve, and it has slice. Not enough slice to bother someone at a higher level, but slice is something that 3.0 opponents have never experienced. She now gets aces and service winners without having changed anything but her grip. She is still working on mastering it, but I encouraged her to use it every single time, no matter how important the point is. I think she has become a believer because she has seen how much opponents will T off on her old, straight serve, but will struggle with these off-pace spinny serves she now hits.

Next on her to-do list: Volleying with the correct grips. That will be a long-term project. But the key to being competitive in senior tennis is being able to volley well so you don't have to run a lot, so I think that should be the next goal.

Cindy -- hoping to play a 3.5 tournament with her sister someday because at the rate things are going they will both be 3.5s soon

Great to hear! Was this accomplished through private instruction or group?

 

[Dartagnan64]

Actually, you are incorrect about this.

As I explained before, sis has not been playing for 12 years at 3.0. She has had very long breaks, coupled with injuries.

But here's the encouraging thing.

After her most recent knee surgery, she decided to return to USTA league tennis. That was last spring. She decided to make an effort to do the thing properly this time, and we talked about what that might mean. She in particular wanted my thoughts on what to work on first if she wanted to get to 3.5 or 4.0 someday (all of her friends did not take a hiatus and are now at those levels).

I said the single most important thing was to commit to using the correct grips.

Well, what do you know? She took a few lessons and can now use a Continental grip to serve!

It is straight up adorable to watch (and I mean that in the best possible way). She hits her serve, and it has slice. Not enough slice to bother someone at a higher level, but slice is something that 3.0 opponents have never experienced. She now gets aces and service winners without having changed anything but her grip. She is still working on mastering it, but I encouraged her to use it every single time, no matter how important the point is. I think she has become a believer because she has seen how much opponents will T off on her old, straight serve, but will struggle with these off-pace spinny serves she now hits.

Next on her to-do list: Volleying with the correct grips. That will be a long-term project. But the key to being competitive in senior tennis is being able to volley well so you don't have to run a lot, so I think that should be the next goal.

Cindy -- hoping to play a 3.5 tournament with her sister someday because at the rate things are going they will both be 3.5s soon

See this is what 3.0 being a transition phase is all about. If you put the least bit of effort into tennis, you can be a 3.5. If you have the coordination to hit decent strokes you can get to 4.0 with effort. But you have to try. Most people sitting at 3.0 do so for one of two reasons: physical limitations and/or lack of committment. I was a 3.0 for decades because I just never put the time in to get better.

Glad Cindy's sister is committed to learning the game and getting better. No doubt she will be 3.5 sooner than later. Even if she never learns everything the correct way, with practice and repetition and consistency you can be 3.5. My wife routinely beats 3.5 players with her 3.0 style wrong grip strokes. Because she tries hard and compensates with consistency and accuracy.

Good luck to her.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

See this is what 3.0 being a transition phase is all about. If you put the least bit of effort into tennis, you can be a 3.5.

I disagree. I can't disprove your statement but looking at the tennis-playing population [whether they have an actual rating], there are plenty of people <= 3.0 who, at least in their eyes, are putting the least bit of effort into tennis.

Again, your usage of 2 data points as proof is, in math lingo, "necessary but not sufficient".

 

[kylebarendrick]

People need to be at least a little self aware. If you are a long-term 3.0 that gets offended being referred to as a beginner, then you need to recognize that even though you aren't actually new to the sport, you play like you are.

 

[Cindysphinx]

Great to hear! Was this accomplished through private instruction or group?

A couple of private lessons and *a lot* of long-distance encouragement from me to stick with it.

It's mighty hard to step up to the line, announce love-40, and keep that Continental grip.

 

[Cindysphinx]

People need to be at least a little self aware. If you are a long-term 3.0 that gets offended being referred to as a beginner, then you need to recognize that even though you aren't actually new to the sport, you play like you are.

That's not true either.

A true beginner cannot hang with a 3.0 player. A true beginner will send a great number of balls over the fence.

It is going to be a struggle for sis to make 3.5. She is 56, lives in a place with no leagues in the winter, and works/travels a lot. But she can certainly get to be the queen of 3.0 if she uses the right grips and builds decent strokes.

 

[sovertennis]

I am a person who learned tennis as an adult. I took many clinics early on. Let me give you some feedback on these ideas from someone who went from 2.5 to 4.0 over the years.

**I thank my lucky stars every day that my clinic pros taught me the right way to do things from the beginning.**

I remember one clinic where the pro was teaching us beginners the BH volley. I hit a 2HBH volley. He came up immediately and told me not to do that. He said to use a OHBH volley, in Continental grip. He said this was the best way to volley, that better players volley this way, I'll never be sorry if I do it the right way.

In another clinic (same club, different pro), they were teaching the serve. I hit with a frying pan grip. The pro said to use continental. I balked. He told me to use that grip for two weeks and report back to him. Sure enough, my serves were better and had spin and it felt good. I've served with Continental since.

I say this because it is very, very hard to change a wrong grip to a correct one once you get used to the wrong one. It is much easier just to do it right in the first place.

Now, I did switch from Eastern FH to SW in about my fifth year of play. Maybe that is OK -- Eastern FH is not "wrong," just different. On volleys and overheads and serves, however, there is no reasonable difference of opinion because Eastern FH is "wrong."

I guess that is a long way of saying that there are some, maybe even many, newbies who go to clinics to learn the game. Some are willing to learn it correctly, and some may be won over with some coaxing. I think a pro owes it to students to try to get as many as possible to be willing to do the thing properly. In other words, I disagree with you that it is not OK for the student to do it the wrong way so long as they know it is the wrong way. They can never internalize that it is the wrong way and there is value in the right way if the pro is drilling them on how to do it wrong.

Although I find most of your posts thoughtful and constructive, I have to disagree with you here. The coach in question showed the players the proper technique then, when they couldn't execute it, gave them (as another poster wrote) a viable work-around that was consistent with their existing abilities. After many, many years of coaching everyone from aspiring juniors to high level collegians it has become abundantly clear to me that adults in the 3.0 range (especially women) who use only the Eastern or semi-western grip for overheads and serves will not, generally (and you, Cindy, may be the exception) adapt to a Continental grip. From your second-hand account, it seems to me that the instructor in question provided valid coaching to the group.

 

[sovertennis]

Yes, I take your point. I thought it might be interesting for you to hear about this from a student's perspective, especially one who has taken a lot of clinics from a lot of pros with a lot of different teammates at a lot of different levels over a decade.

But think about what you said. You said that in clinic you "teach to the masses." That's true. I agree. Given that you cannot tailor the clinic to the individual (either athletic or klutzy), why would you drag down everyone by teaching the wrong technique?

In other words, if you are going to address the subject of grips in a group setting, why would you teach it wrong? Either teach it right or don't cover it at all. Just feed those balls, praise the good shots, collect your fee.

If I follow your OP, the instructor did not "teach it wrong". He showed them all the "correct" (in quotes because, really, is there a sole correct technique for every player to hit every stroke?) then modified the lesson to help them improve their existing skills. Not many instructors would stay in business if they demanded from mature, adult players that they use only a specific grip to hit a specific stroke. That seems to work with you, but would not be an effective for everyone.

 

[stapletonj]

I would ask for a refund, hire an attorney from the many on Tennis Channel's commercials--especially the "law firm" that is handling the Johnson Baby Powder cases--she is entitled to some money from the settlements to come. Really! A pro attempting to teach anything like grips in a clinic--what was he thinking?

He must be new and thought there was some hope for change. He'll learn in time and experience--don't try to teach them anything, just keep feeding them balls and say, "You'r doing great Deary." They came to socialize while waiting in line, catching up on the club gossip and working up a little dew.

This pro needs to be disciplined by the USPTA before he ruins it for the rest of the pros. BTW, let me know when the settlement occurs so I can file a claim--I took a clinic, once, and I used J&J Baby Powder in my Nike tights and Asics shoes.

but were you playing with a babolat racket supposedly containing Cortex?

 

[stapletonj]

Hmmmm. I wouldn't do it that way, and I agree with you that he is reinforcing bad habits.

The only possible reason that I can think of to do what he was doing, is if the students were SO green that they were having trouble tracking the ball through the air and making contact with the strings regardless.

POSSIBLY, it might be feasible/not horrible to take the attitude of - "Look, this is wrong, but I'm going to let you get away with it for now, let's just concentrate on picking the ball out of the air and coordinating getting the racket up and out and contact point above your head instead of swinging so late or early that you whiff entirely"....

But I don't like it and wouldn't do it unless in a total emergency, "We've called you in for a session and our match is tomorrow, what can you work with us on that will help with our match tomorrow?"
and even then I am not so sure.

Also, really questionable when the possibility or getting a torn rotator cuff or the like when trying to put some oomph into an overhead, especially if not in good position, etc., which of course is quite likely with green players.

 

[tennis tom]

...but were you playing with a babolat supposedly containing Cortex?

No, I play with POG's until I die, the oldest frame still being mmanufactured. You can buy one at the Goodwill for $5 like brand new. BUT, I do use Bab's gut--any cortex in them? AND, I shake hands with a lot of players who play with Babolat rackets.

What are the early warning signs of cortex poisoning?--bad line calls?, cheating on the score? foot-faulting?, leaving bag on the bench?, random movements while opponent is ball-tossing but not to distract?--if so, my club is infected, that explains yesterday on the challenge court. I gotta' lawyer-up!

 

[stapletonj]

amen bruddah, btw, I am one of those lawyer types, although I play with a yonex. babolats cause excessive out balls due to overswinging attempts to hit 5000 rpm topspin and "Tennis Tourettes" (Screaming CCCMMMOOON!!! or VAAAMMMMMOOOOSSS!!!!!, when you hit one and the opponent hits the return into the net tape and it doesnot go over)

 

[wings56]

Although I find most of your posts thoughtful and constructive, I have to disagree with you here. The coach in question showed the players the proper technique then, when they couldn't execute it, gave them (as another poster wrote) a viable work-around that was consistent with their existing abilities. After many, many years of coaching everyone from aspiring juniors to high level collegians it has become abundantly clear to me that adults in the 3.0 range (especially women) who use only the Eastern or semi-western grip for overheads and serves will not, generally (and you, Cindy, may be the exception) adapt to a Continental grip. From your second-hand account, it seems to me that the instructor in question provided valid coaching to the group.

This is my general sentiment toward the whole thing. If you see Cindy's above post, the progress was made through private instruction.

 

[sureshs]

If I follow your OP, the instructor did not "teach it wrong". He showed them all the "correct" (in quotes because, really, is there a sole correct technique for every player to hit every stroke?) then modified the lesson to help them improve their existing skills. Not many instructors would stay in business if they demanded from mature, adult players that they use only a specific grip to hit a specific stroke. That seems to work with you, but would not be an effective for everyone.

That is a great point. Adult players should be treated like patients. There is always something seriously wrong with them, and they are unlikely to want to hear or do anything about the root cause, so just treat them symptomatically and move on.

 

[ARKustom93]

That is a great point. Adult players should be treated like patients. There is always something seriously wrong with them, and they are unlikely to want to hear or do anything about the root cause, so just treat them symptomatically and move on.

Fix the hi-lighted stuff and voila, pretty good post ... FWIW, I treat my 'patients' on a strictly individual basis ... Teaching is like a box of chocolates(I know, cheesy as hell, but true) That's what makes it fun.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

That is a great point. Adult players should be treated like patients. There is always something seriously wrong with them, and they are unlikely to want to hear or do anything about the root cause, so just treat them symptomatically and move on.

They've been doing that in the ER for decades and found that 20% of the patients were responsible for 80% of their costs so they implemented a program to try and educate those 20% and they found that their costs went down dramatically.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

Fix the hi-lighted stuff and voila, pretty good post ... FWIW, I treat my 'patients' on a strictly individual basis ... Teaching is like a box of chocolates(I know, cheesy as hell, but true) That's what makes it fun.

I can't believe you used the word "chocolate" and "cheese" in the same sentence. Blasphemer!

 

[GlennK]

They've been doing that in the ER for decades and found that 20% of the patients were responsible for 80% of their costs so they implemented a program to try and educate those 20% and they found that their costs went down dramatically.

Great to hear. So when will my health care costs lower? Especially the insurance premiums?

 

[sureshs]

They've been doing that in the ER for decades and found that 20% of the patients were responsible for 80% of their costs so they implemented a program to try and educate those 20% and they found that their costs went down dramatically.

Ah but here the requirement is to increase the cost (i.e., increase the number of lessons and payout to the coaches) so it is better not to educate them.

 

[ARKustom93]

Ah but here the requirement is to increase the cost (i.e., increase the number of lessons and payout to the coaches) so it is better not to educate them.

No idea what kind of pros you've encountered, but as far as I'm concerned,that's a choice.

 

[Ruark]

The correct term is naturists.

Do they play tennis nude? Seems like that would be, er, difficult.

 

[time_fly]

I think it depends where these ladies are trying to go. If they are trying to improve beyond 3.0, then it will likely be more beneficial to learn the correct way. If they are just trying to have fun... not move levels, but just be a better version of themselves, then I think what he did was perfect

I only partially agree. I think you can get by on frying pan serves and overheads up until mid-4.5 level in ladies' tennis. Many of our 4.0 women and even the lower 4.5s get by just fine without being able to smash 80+ mph serves and overheads, and higher potential velocity is the only advantage you gain with the correct technique.

So if we are talking adult rec players with no aspirations of challenging strong 4.5s and above, frying pan is probably fine.

 

[Cindysphinx]

Ok, what caused this old thread to surface?

Cindy — whose beloved sister is still 3.0

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

Ok, what caused this old thread to surface?

Cindy — whose beloved sister is still 3.0

Is she still hitting OHs with a FH grip facing the net?

 

[Cindysphinx]

Probably.

So am I, sadly.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

Probably.

So am I, sadly.

It's not the end of the world; one can still hit a good OH with a FH grip facing the net.

In volleyball, most people lead with their opposite foot when they launch for a spike. This is the equivalent of turning sideways on the OH.

However, some face the net square. And a very few even lead with their hitting arm foot ["goofy footed"]. It's not bio-mechanically sound but I've seen some guys [always guys] pound the crap out of the ball using non-optimal stances. The fact that they had 36" verticals and a whip of an arm meant they could do a lot.

I don't suppose you have a 36" vertical?

 

[Cindysphinx]

I have a 36" vertical if I set a yardstick on end. Is that what you mean?

A few summers ago, I decided I was going to learn a good overhead, that it was stupid to work hard to get the opponent in enough trouble to lob and then miss the overhead. I got some buddies together, and we launched "Overhead Bootcamp" with our pro. Week after week, we worked on overheads (and defending overheads, and hitting lobs). We all got so much better. I was using proper footwork and placing overheads in the alleys.

The skill has deteriorated such that I am well under 50% for overheads, and I call a switch on balls I really should be hitting.

I am so ashamed of this that I checked with my pro to see if he can knock the rust off of my overhead on Independence Day. But, you know, it's gonna be hot. So I'm not going.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

I have a 36" vertical if I set a yardstick on end. Is that what you mean?

A 36" vertical means you can reach 36" higher than when you are standing on the ground with your arm stretched up. You don't measure from the ground to the feet because you could always bend your knees.

A few summers ago, I decided I was going to learn a good overhead, that it was stupid to work hard to get the opponent in enough trouble to lob and then miss the overhead. I got some buddies together, and we launched "Overhead Bootcamp" with our pro. Week after week, we worked on overheads (and defending overheads, and hitting lobs). We all got so much better. I was using proper footwork and placing overheads in the alleys.

The skill has deteriorated such that I am well under 50% for overheads, and I call a switch on balls I really should be hitting.

I am so ashamed of this that I checked with my pro to see if he can knock the rust off of my overhead on Independence Day. But, you know, it's gonna be hot. So I'm not going.

Well, you did it once which means you can do it again. You could become the QOH [Queen of Overheads] at 3.5.

 

[sureshs]

Hey guys who make fun of women hitting overheads with open stance and pancake grip:

Hang two watermelons from your neck and then see how easy it is to turn sideways and smash with conti grip.

 

[tennis tom]

Hey guys who make fun of women hitting overheads with open stance and pancake grip:

Hang two watermelons from your neck and then see how easy it is to turn sideways and smash with conti grip.

Well, that's an interesting angle on things, I never thought of that before, but have heard that Simona Halep had a breast reduction and her OH's appear better. Not sure if your analogy works though, men may have difficulty turning sideways, with a couple of apricots dangling between their legs. But, your support for the ladies may get you into their clinics.

 

[jm1980]

Hey guys who make fun of women hitting overheads with open stance and pancake grip:

Hang two watermelons from your neck and then see how easy it is to turn sideways and smash with conti grip.

You never heard of sports bras?

I also don't see it affecting overheads all that much.

 

[Cindysphinx]

Jesus.

Watching men speculate about the female body is unsettling. Have some of you even met a woman?

 

[jm1980]

Jesus.

Watching men speculate about the female body is unsettling.

Sorry

I think it's a fair question though. Do you think it really has an impact?

 

[tennis tom]

Do they play tennis nude? Seems like that would be, er, difficult.

Yes they do, but they do wear shoes--too bad they're not grass courts, they could go barefoot too.

WARNING : some adult content

https://www.cypresscoveresort.com/activities/tennis/​

 

[tennis tom]

Jesus.

Watching men speculate about the female body is unsettling. Have some of you even met a woman?

Yes! Way too many--thank god for porn.

 

[sureshs]

Well, that's an interesting angle on things, I never thought of that before, but have heard that Simona Halep had a breast reduction and her OH's appear better.

People make a big deal of WTA players have inferior serve technique compared to the men and this could be one (or two) of the reason(s).

 

[sureshs]

Sorry

I think it's a fair question though. Do you think it really has an impact?

It has. I am discussing serious medical issues here and still people make fun of me. See below. As a society, we need to stop objectifying women's bodies.

https://www.aboutplasticsurgery.com/breast/breast-augmentation/staying-active-after-breast-implants/

You may find, however, that your breast implants may impact your ability to participate some activities, particularly activities that require movement close to your body. Sports like golf, tennis and swimming, and even everyday activities like cooking and crafts, could be more challenging for a little while, as you learn to adjust your movements. But once you’ve figured out how to change your golf swing or tennis serve to accommodate for your larger breasts, you’ll be good to go.

Or this:

http://www.espn.com/espnw/news-comm...014-french-open-runner-simona-halep-less-more

Think of any physical activity that requires quickness and a change of direction -- they kind of get left behind. Your breasts just aren't on board in the same way the rest of your parts are. You are moving down, they stay up. You go left, they reluctantly follow. On a sudden stop, they are like the crash-test dummies that keep moving out through the windshield.

It's easy to see how large breasts can affect the motion of a player's serve, or perhaps a two-handed backhand. Stephania Bell, an ESPN medical analyst and physical trainer, has treated athletes with back and neck issues who felt the injuries were due to their physical frames. Halep has previously said that she made her reduction decision in part due to back pain.

"You look at physics," Bell said. "It's like taking a counterweight and putting it on the front of you."

 

[jm1980]

Jeez, what a sh**show this thread has become. If there are any ladies still reading this, I wasn't trying to steer it in that direction. It was an honest question, I swear

 

[sureshs]

There are quite a few men who serve with a pancake grip and arm the serve, and whose serves are much faster than most of their fellow players with the "correct" edge-on technique. What do you say to that?

 

[li0scc0]

Malpractice? Hardly. My wife is an Open female, played D1 tennis at a very good school. She has never served with the proper grip. She learned with the wrong grip, and even at academy could not change it. Even so, it is a very effective serve, even in mixed against men. Plenty of pace and placement.
Provided the instructor demonstrates the best grip for the overhead, but allows for workarounds, he/she is doing his job.
In a private lesson, if the participant is truly trying to work for improvement, then I could see time dedicated to changing form. But in a clinic, there is only so much instruction that is possible.

 

[Cindysphinx]

Jeez, what a sh**show this thread has become. If there are any ladies still reading this, I wasn't trying to steer it in that direction. It was an honest question, I swear

I believe you.

 

[tennis tom]

It has. I am discussing serious medical issues here and still people make fun of me. See below. As a society, we need to stop objectifying women's bodies.

Is anyone else getting turned on by Suri's wordsmithing here? Want to take bets on how long before this thread is deleted?

 

[Cindysphinx]

There are quite a few men who serve with a pancake grip and arm the serve, and whose serves are much faster than most of their fellow players with the "correct" edge-on technique. What do you say to that?

Speed isn't everything.

That's what I say to that.