Technology Ruined Tennis
Hall of Fame
Faster courts up the chances of getting Rosol'd. Fed would probably have around 20 slams.
The REAL reason why Federer won
- Thread starter DreddyTennis45
- Start date
GabeT
G.O.A.T.
Actually yes, it was.
Sentinel
Bionic Poster
Then how come Nadal beat Raonic.
Raonic should have been in the final, no ?
Or Grigor ?
dabudabuda
Rookie
Real reason=sum of parts
One part=court speed
Jack Sock interview asked at 55 seconds about adjusting to the conditions saying, "...Melbourne, probably the fastest hard courts I've ever played on in my career(1st slam main draw 2010 USOpen; 1st AO main draw 2013) outdoor hard courts..."
http://www.daviscup.com/en/news/251562.aspx
One part=court speed
Jack Sock interview asked at 55 seconds about adjusting to the conditions saying, "...Melbourne, probably the fastest hard courts I've ever played on in my career(1st slam main draw 2010 USOpen; 1st AO main draw 2013) outdoor hard courts..."
http://www.daviscup.com/en/news/251562.aspx
Julian Houston
Semi-Pro
Its the balls which were changed. Nothing to do with court, much cheaper to change the balls too.
Its slightly faster than previous years, but not a lot faster, the main thing is Federer backhand factor too. He would have lost under pressure like last time.
Federer is very sensitive player adapting to surfaces speed. The speed did help but the bounce is not as low as grass still. Dimitrov couldn't hit through nadal.
Its slightly faster than previous years, but not a lot faster, the main thing is Federer backhand factor too. He would have lost under pressure like last time.
Federer is very sensitive player adapting to surfaces speed. The speed did help but the bounce is not as low as grass still. Dimitrov couldn't hit through nadal.
Bobby Jr
G.O.A.T.
lol wot? The courts are repainted each year so the net cost to speed them up is practically zero. By contrast, changing the balls requires a factory in China to make a demo run which then get tested, then a whole production run for the tournament. How that could possibly be cheaper than painting a dozen of the courts at Melbourne Park is beyond me.
SystemicAnomaly
Bionic Poster
Balls were livelier cuz the courts were faster. Had heard a number of players (Federer, Nadal and others) and commentators indicate the the AO courts were faster this year. Did not hear any of them speak of a faster ball. If anything, the balls may have been slightly less lively this year because the weather/temp during play was not as hot it has been in some years.
Remember: P = nrT/V
One ad that I saw for the Wilson 2017 AO tennis ball indicated that the logo had been changed for 2017 (for the commercially available ball) and might have implied that the ball had somewhat more air drag (slower). Some articles that refers to a faster court surface -- not a faster ball.
https://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/13/sports/tennis/13iht-speed13.html?_r=0
http://www.espn.com/tennis/story/_/...yed-role-extraordinary-australian-open-finals
http://www.news.com.au/sport/tennis...n/news-story/fb8e9f54f3d77c1a5c7c01cbd7710cca
Luckydog
Professional
He did well ,but not enough to claim that Nadal is an excellent fast court player . No dissing .The important titles he won on fast courts come from 2 wimb,2 USO ,1 Cincy and 1 Madrid(Do I miss anything ?) and no WTF. Only 6 in his almost 16- year-career.
MasturB
Legend
Grass is obviously slower by the 2nd week and by championship sunday with how much it's worn down and the baseline is essentially a clay court of dirt.
Fed would have beat Nole at Wimby if it were the first round match where the grass was still lush everywhere on the court.
The advantage of cushion and concrete is the endurance compared to Grass. Clay you can throw new clay down everyday and maintain it better than Grass.
One day we'll have the technology to remove the worn down court and put in a new surface just for championship Sunday that's the same as Day 1.
Fed would have beat Nole at Wimby if it were the first round match where the grass was still lush everywhere on the court.
The advantage of cushion and concrete is the endurance compared to Grass. Clay you can throw new clay down everyday and maintain it better than Grass.
One day we'll have the technology to remove the worn down court and put in a new surface just for championship Sunday that's the same as Day 1.
Luckydog
Professional
Can you remember in 2011 WTF RR Fed beat up Nadal in straight sets 6:3 6:0? Fed's backhand performance in 17 AO final was similar to that.
The courts were laid earlier, that is a fact - meaning they had more time and more sessions on them to wear down the initial grit and indeed make them quicker, compounding this were the new type of balls that didn't fluff up as much making them quick through the air.
The conditions were absolutely faster this year than in past - this was a real hard court and the fact is if wimbledon had the speed it should federer would have 8-9 wimbys.
Not a fed lover but that's the truth. Same as if there were two clay slams a year Nadal would be GOAT. Conditions decide GOATness
The conditions were absolutely faster this year than in past - this was a real hard court and the fact is if wimbledon had the speed it should federer would have 8-9 wimbys.
Not a fed lover but that's the truth. Same as if there were two clay slams a year Nadal would be GOAT. Conditions decide GOATness
Rafa the King
Hall of Fame
Rog's title on clay would be
2 Madrid and 3 Hamburg if I'm not mistaken plus a RG. Is that not enough either?
DreddyTennis45
Hall of Fame
That was an anomaly
Actually thats why many consider nadal to be goat. His versatility is better than federers. He has beat federer and last week went 5 sets in conditions favouring federer.
When conditions favour nadal its not even a contest.
Federer fans are behaving as if federer has retired or that 2017 is over. Is he retiring? Have i missed the announcement? If he isnt then lets enjoy the next installmwnt of roger v rafa shall we.
DreddyTennis45
Hall of Fame
Is it though? They're about the same for me. Federer on his worst surface (clay) has done much better than Nadal on his (indoors)
How is it possible that many federer fans have become more insecure after such a historic 18th slam win?
I mean now it seems there is a new type of major called the fast court slam.
I genuinely had no idea that nadal and djokovic had got into some of the federer fanbase to this extent. Its very sad to see.
Federer is a great player with a wonderful career i am puzzled as to the negativity of some of his fans.
Yes thats true. I was just looking at the majors and masters 1000 but clay v indoors favours federer you are right
Luckydog
Professional
True, but how about the number of finalists on their least favorite courts ?The number of titiles is a critical index to rate a player,the number of finalists, too. Compare, you will find that on clay Fed almost only lost to Nadal(not shame to lose to the greatest clay court player),but outside clay(especially on fast hard courts) Nadal lost to many players come from many different countries in early rounds ,and few finalists got. The gap is more than ten miles.
Nadal is the GOAT of clay, But Fed is the GOAT of tennis. Is that fair ?
Shaolin
G.O.A.T.
No his versatility is not as good as Federer's. Nadal cant win on indoor courts and Fed can. Do you realize that Nadal hasn't won a single WTF? Fed can win on every surface, Nadal cannot.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
Blue clay says otherwise.
Steve0904
Talk Tennis Guru
An obvious troll statement, but how you can have 5, 5, and 7, at 3 of the slams and not have better versatility than a guy that has 1, 2, and 2 at those same 3 is beyond me. Of course the already mentioned YEC total is the biggest decider of all.
This would be like me saying Murray has better versatility than Nadal (he doesn't) because he's won the WTF. Meanwhile Nadal has won 2 of the slams that Murray hasn't yet. That's how bad it looks when you argue that Nadal has better versatility than Federer. There is no argument. It is not even close.
This would be like me saying Murray has better versatility than Nadal (he doesn't) because he's won the WTF. Meanwhile Nadal has won 2 of the slams that Murray hasn't yet. That's how bad it looks when you argue that Nadal has better versatility than Federer. There is no argument. It is not even close.
Rafa the King
Hall of Fame
That is a fair assesment indeed. I just meant to the say that even if Rafa sucked on clay, he'd be Tier 3 or 2. He reached atleast one non-RG final for 9 years straight. He has played 4-5-3 in terms of non-RG finals. He has won 8 Masters on this surface and reached the WTF final twice and the semi's 5 times.
Seriously would you like to see blue clay on the tour? Im quite open minded about blue and green clay. Never really been discussed.
Ive already conceded that point but most people look at the majors and indoor tennis is not played at major level. Nadal winning in 2010 three majors on three surfaces was unique and probably wont be done again in a period of 6 months. Djokovic did but over a longer period.
But some people are raising blue clay as well.
Interesting to see what nadal does in rotterdam. Good field there and he needs to back up australia with at least a sf showing.
donquijote
G.O.A.T.
You should run for president.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
Wouldn't mind. The contrats with the ball was great.
Plus there are already too many red clay tournaments.
SpinToWin
Talk Tennis Guru
The courts definitely were faster this year, reputable sources said there was less sand in the layup this year, which makes the court faster.
IIRC the balls too were lighter this year. At Wimby it's the balls that are the largest problem I think, there's a reason why Roddick complained about "balls like Watermelons" in the mid 2000s.
IIRC the balls too were lighter this year. At Wimby it's the balls that are the largest problem I think, there's a reason why Roddick complained about "balls like Watermelons" in the mid 2000s.
octobrina10
Talk Tennis Guru
This has been discussed a zillion times.
augustobt
Legend
I'm not orange enough.
Sentinel
Bionic Poster
LOL, are you imagining things or what ? Only peeps like 90sC, suresh and a couple more have.
And who anyway are you really, "new" user ?
Yea, you are right. A few years ago after Federer started to decline, Federer beat Murray on a fast hard court. After the match, Murray said Federer would still be number one in the world if all the courts were fast like that tournament. Federer would have at least 3 or 4 more majors if courts were all fast.
I prefer faster courts for viewing and thought AO has it right. The contrast between attacking player and baseline players was very good to watch. I hated it when Djokovic and Murray or Nadal played 5 or 6 hours consisting mostly of baseline grinding.
PrinceMoron
Legend
BeatlesFan
Bionic Poster
Rafa's lateral movement (especially to his FH) was noticeably slower than what it once was. His movement forward looked to be still excellent. But moving to his left looked like he was a full step to 1.5 steps slower than his peak.
Charlemagne
Hall of Fame
I don't mind it.. Think of how many more Majors he would've won had the courts not been slower over the last 10 years.
Julian Houston
Semi-Pro
Well, too bad in tennis u have 4 surfaces, namely grass, clay, indoor carpet, outdoor hard courts. 2 natural and 1 man made.
Tennis is judged from 4 surfaces.
IF tennis is only played on clay Nadal is GOAT with 33 slams and Federer 0-1 Slam, Djokovic 5 slams.
Julian Houston
Semi-Pro
Age is a big deal on a slow surface, if Fed is younger 5 yrs he will be beating Nadal up in RG.
Djokovic did slightly better against Nadal due to being almost same age or 1 yr younger.
Yes but they don't reflect a fair balance across them and therefore who ever's style suits the season's four majors better will perform better when you have two or three guys who are all so good and will win with a very slight favourable surface.
metsman
G.O.A.T.
Well that's his worst surface. Indoors is Nadal's worst condition.
DreddyTennis45
Hall of Fame
It's shocking the level of conspiracy that goes on in tennis.
metsman
G.O.A.T.
these days he pretty much is.
However, I think the speed of this AO court is being overstated.
DreddyTennis45
Hall of Fame
It's a conspiracy mate. It goes way deeper than you and I can imagine
No because Wimbledon and USO were always supposed to be faster. AO being medium and RG being slow. They took it too far and made everything medium or slower.
Nah. Look at his 16 Wimbledon Semi. Guy could barely move by the 4th set.
Yep. Imagine if they were the same age? I'd lose count of the amount of bagels at Cincy. And surprise they slowed down USO from 10-11 just when Djokovic started beating Fed by nicking match points off him.
I actually think federer best chance to bsat nadal at RG is this hear which is why i dont understand people sayung he shoukd skip the clay. I think he has a real shot at the french open.
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