The Rise of Skywalker - worst Star Wars episode ever?

[Sysyphus]

Ok, but it's weird that "by the Allah" comment is among chosen few comments for the show on main metacritic page for batwoman, since that comment is literally the last (actually it's the last and single one on page 2). I don't get why did you even quote metacritic when we were talking about rotten tomatoes, which is way more film oriented and relevant anyway.

a) you were talking about (and I was replying regarding) Batwoman, a TV show, and Metacritic is more aimed toward TV than RT is.

b) because the tomatometer can be misleading. A 76% fresh rating can sound nice, but it only means that 76% reviewed it positively (by RT's judgement). That percentage says nothing about whether these 76% thought it was just mildly good or very good. The metascore of 60 suggests that critics by and large just thought Batwoman was *meh* or mixed. Which undermines your point: apparently being 'progressive' isn't enough to get a lot of love from critics. But it's seemingly enough to get an aggressive backlash from fans online.

As for The Last Jedi, you say "people hated it because it's bad." Well, that's not entirely accurate. People who got vexed enough to make accounts on RT hated it. That's not your average moviegoer. If you look at Cinemascore, which polls actual moviegoers in actual viewings, the perception of TLJ was positive, receiving an A -- which is a better audience rating than any of the prequels, for comparison. The whole outrage fest is most of all an internet circlejerk.

And no, I don't believe that every person with misgivings about the Star Wars sequels hates them on political grounds, nor that critics are angels free of their own biases. But your claim that the critics are only blinded by the politics while the disgruntled fans are right is hard for me to take seriously. It doesn't reflect my own feelings either -- politics was not at the front of my mind when leaving the cinema.

leaving this matter with this, which seems to me to sum up the fracas quite well:
https://www.vox.com/culture/2017/12/18/16791844/star-wars-last-jedi-backlash-controversy

 

[Poisoned Slice]

 

[Big_Dangerous]

No one will think it was remotely good. It was horrible. Completely horrible. So many plot holes and the amount of stupidity in one place is boggling.

It looked great though. The movie equivalent of that hot babe in the steve martin movie who was hot as hell until she talked.

If you've ever seen a Trump Rally, then it's hard to imagine more stupidity existing in any other single place.

 

[dgold44]

The franchise should have been put out of its misery long ago. The law of diminishing returns kicked in after The Empire Strikes Back.

funny I heard a rant from a British guy on
Ytube about how this is the worst ever
. I just love all new vocabulary words you guys use and I have to google it .
In America the Lang is so dumbed down

 

[Born_to_slice]

a) you were talking about (and I was replying regarding) Batwoman, a TV show, and Metacritic is more aimed toward TV than RT is.

b) because the tomatometer can be misleading. A 76% fresh rating can sound nice, but it only means that 76% reviewed it positively (by RT's judgement). That percentage says nothing about whether these 76% thought it was just mildly good or very good. The metascore of 60 suggests that critics by and large just thought Batwoman was *meh* or mixed. Which undermines your point: apparently being 'progressive' isn't enough to get a lot of love from critics. But it's seemingly enough to get an aggressive backlash from fans online.

As for The Last Jedi, you say "people hated it because it's bad." Well, that's not entirely accurate. People who got vexed enough to make accounts on RT hated it. That's not your average moviegoer. If you look at Cinemascore, which polls actual moviegoers in actual viewings, the perception of TLJ was positive, receiving an A -- which is a better audience rating than any of the prequels, for comparison. The whole outrage fest is most of all an internet circlejerk.

And no, I don't believe that every person with misgivings about the Star Wars sequels hates them on political grounds, nor that critics are angels free of their own biases. But your claim that the critics are only blinded by the politics while the disgruntled fans are right is hard for me to take seriously. It doesn't reflect my own feelings either -- politics was not at the front of my mind when leaving the cinema.

leaving this matter with this, which seems to me to sum up the fracas quite well:
https://www.vox.com/culture/2017/12/18/16791844/star-wars-last-jedi-backlash-controversy

Try watching Batwoman. It is not meh, it is a disaster. TLJ is a masterpiece in comparison.

Metacritic is not more TV show oriented than RT is btw. Dreaded Batwoman had only 15 reviews on Metacritic, while it had 41 on RT. Same follows for other TV shows. Metacritic is actually video game oriented. RT reviews are ambiguous and problematic though, I concur. They censor and delete negative reviews (50K reviews for Cptn. Marvel), which is why this train wreck called rise of skywalker is at 86% fresh audience review score currently.

Moviegoers you say? I say anyone with some common sense and adult taste, or children who are too old for watching a movie with their parents, didn't bother watching this in the theater. SW has fanatical fandom, which is not easy to **** off. HC fans will literally clap for Millennium Falcon, R2D2 and "I got a bad feeling about this" catchphrase etc. It's really hard to make those guys disgruntled, but Disney did it by taking a steaming dump on OT.

My personal complaint isn't the one HC fans have though . It's the inability to make these movies into something coherent and smooth. It's the directing and screenplay which are both below bare minimum of competence. With good execution, even the most annoying SJW agendas could be made bearable or even subtle. But none of the sequels have anything close to competent execution. They're just like some endless trailer.

 

[Poisoned Slice]

 

[helterskelter]

if their story was over, why was the new entire story centered around the same plot? it was the Empires vs Rebel all over again, they have brought Palpatine back, all the other old characters like Lando or Yoda (you know, characters people actually care about, unlike the new guys), it was the original trilogy rehashed again. not only that, they have basically ruined their legacy, they have ruined their characters too in the process. all they fought for in the OT was reset, the Empire was destroyed and look, some New Order is in the power and we’re the rebels again. Palpatine, the main bad guy, basically outlived them all. They have all died before him. Anakin’s redemption storyline is meaningless, Rey is the ultimate chosen one. garbage, garbage movie.

Bringing back Palpatine was what made the movie go from merely being excruciatingly dull and incredibly unimaginative and uninteresting to outright irritating and worthy of exclusion from my personal Star Wars canon. (My own counsel do I keep on what counts as part of the universe - no post-Return of the Jedi story in which Palpatine exists in any way, shape, or form is part of it, as he was destroyed forever at the end of Return of the Jedi). But if they had to bring him back (they didn't and shouldn't have done so), they had to do it in a better way than just announcing his return in the first line of the crawl. It was the equivalent of him jumping out from behind a couch and shouting, "Surprise!" To be in keeping with his stature as an evil genius, if he had to return (he didn't), he should have tricked them all for much longer, with them only realizing that he was masterminding the plot when it was almost too late. The way they did it, this was clearly a fresh "story," not the continuation of Last Jedi. Now, admittedly, Last Jedi had so little plot that they couldn't really continue it. But this was in no meaningful way a sequel. It was, rather, "the further 'adventures' of a bunch of boring characters."

How Palpatine could be a major part of the sequels yet Anakin Skywalker and Obi-Wan Kenobi only appeared as voices, I will never know.

 

[helterskelter]

a) you were talking about (and I was replying regarding) Batwoman, a TV show, and Metacritic is more aimed toward TV than RT is.

b) because the tomatometer can be misleading. A 76% fresh rating can sound nice, but it only means that 76% reviewed it positively (by RT's judgement). That percentage says nothing about whether these 76% thought it was just mildly good or very good. The metascore of 60 suggests that critics by and large just thought Batwoman was *meh* or mixed. Which undermines your point: apparently being 'progressive' isn't enough to get a lot of love from critics. But it's seemingly enough to get an aggressive backlash from fans online.

As for The Last Jedi, you say "people hated it because it's bad." Well, that's not entirely accurate. People who got vexed enough to make accounts on RT hated it. That's not your average moviegoer. If you look at Cinemascore, which polls actual moviegoers in actual viewings, the perception of TLJ was positive, receiving an A -- which is a better audience rating than any of the prequels, for comparison. The whole outrage fest is most of all an internet circlejerk.

And no, I don't believe that every person with misgivings about the Star Wars sequels hates them on political grounds, nor that critics are angels free of their own biases. But your claim that the critics are only blinded by the politics while the disgruntled fans are right is hard for me to take seriously. It doesn't reflect my own feelings either -- politics was not at the front of my mind when leaving the cinema.

leaving this matter with this, which seems to me to sum up the fracas quite well:
https://www.vox.com/culture/2017/12/18/16791844/star-wars-last-jedi-backlash-controversy

My own view about The Last Jedi was that it was mildly diverting while I was watching it but only had one scene that interested me enough to make me consider watching it ("it" = that scene, not the entire movie) again. I think I've watched that one scene once more but I'm not certain I have. Certainly no more than once further. It's the scene with Snoke in the council chamber. By contrast, I've watched the duel between Mace Windu and Palpatine often enough to know about the poor editing of it that confuses the question of whether Mace really did defeat Palpatine before Anakin stepped in. (When Mace first disarms Palpatine, he is seen with his lightsaber an inch or two from Palpatine's nose and could clearly kill him if he wanted to. It then cuts to Anakin running into the room. When it cuts back to them, Palpatine is several feet away from Mace, with plenty of time to zap him with force lightning if he wanted to).

For all that, The Last Jedi is much more entertaining than The Rise of Skywalker.

I'm at least something of a lefty, so I admit to being annoyed by all the complaints about it that use the ridiculous acronym "SJW," the serious use of which is enough to show that the user is not worth wasting one's time engaging in intellectual debate with. The Last Jedi was an average, neither bad nor good, film, I think, but not because its cast was diverse.

 

[Nostradamus]

Spoiler

There were a few. But nothing beats TESB, ROTS & TPM

I heard it is so good, I might pee in my pants

 

[TagUrIt]

I consider myself to be a dedicated Star Wars fan, I’ve enjoyed even tolerated almost all of the the newer movies. This last one let me down big time. I’ve never wanted a refund for going to see a movie so bad, I remember sitting there wondering when it would be over. They really dropped the ball on this one. I’m not going to blame it all on Disney, I like the Mandalorian, it’s a good show so far.

 

[Harry_Wild]

Best spoiler review of all time! Laughter for sure! Probably better then seeing the movie!

 

[Gary Duane]

I’ll be seeing it regardless of the quality! IDGAF

IDGAF = I'll Doubtlessly Go Anyway, For-what-it's_worth

 

[megamind]

IDGAF = I'll Doubtlessly Go Anyway, For-what-it's_worth

Thank you for keeping Talk Tennis PG rated

 

[MichaelNadal]

Yall in here acting like Star Wars was EVER that good anyway

 

[DSH]

 

[Harry_Wild]

 

[Born_to_slice]

Turns out return of the emperor was done already in a star wars comic (which looks awesome), where Luke is still the main protagonist. So even with the source material Disney and their minions screw it up.

Chinese too smart for Disney's cheap marketing ploys. TLJ did really bad there, this one's on the same path.

 

[Gary Duane]

Yall in here acting like Star Wars was EVER that good anyway

Long ago in 1977, in a universe far away, the first movie was much loved and quite novel.

 

[Poisoned Slice]

Yall in here acting like Star Wars was EVER that good anyway

Yeah, Hulk Hogan vs Andre the Giant wasn't a big match either.

 

[MichaelNadal]

Yeah, Hulk Hogan vs Andre the Giant wasn't a big match either.

Not in the same universe as Macho/Steamboat

 

[Poisoned Slice]

Not in the same universe as Macho/Steamboat

You win.

 

[MichaelNadal]

You win.

Have you watched Randy's documentary on the network? I watched 2 nights ago, so epic. Watching Wrestlemania Rewind now (the megapowers ep)

 

[Poisoned Slice]

Have you watched Randy's documentary on the network? I watched 2 nights ago, so epic

Is this another new one? I did see the one that came out after he died. Lanny ''the Genius'' talking with his elegant ways compared to Randy's intensity.

 

[MichaelNadal]

Is this another new one? I did see the one that came out after he died. Lanny ''the Genius'' talking with his elegant ways compared to Randy's intensity.

Nope the 2014 one just was good seeing it again. Watching Mania Rewind now the megapowers edition

 

[elkwood]

It could have been worse. I liked it better then the last jedi.

 

[Genious at Work]

I vote yes. More turgid than The Last Jedi, with less charm than The Phantom Menace, and less originality than The Force Awakens.

Giving it 0/10 would be generous.

There is only so many ways you can spin something, and Star Wars has been spun too many times. For me everything after ESB has been unnecessary. The problem with franchises and sequels is that they tend to be captive of their own reason for existence, since they rarely can replicate or reimagine the original works that prompted them into existence successfully. Even Aliens, which is often cited as a counterexample to that, doesn't reach the brilliance of the original, though it stands on its own as a great movie. Another example I would give would be Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade, which in my mind is on a level with the original Raiders of the Lost Ark. But asides from these egregious exceptions (and The Empire Strikes Back,) I think sequels on the hole (yes, haha) are crap.

This also applies to TV show franchises. I thought the original American Horror Story was good, and the second season not too bad. But I caught the first episode of American Horror Story Freak Show, and what a steaming pile of dung that was. Let's talk about mindlessly using the same formula and regurgitating putrid material with some minor adjustments and zero inventiveness. Wow.

I also happen to be tired of CGI-driven hogwash, even if not in principle, just because of the way it is abused as a replacement to more substantial qualities.

Another great evil of modern (or at least successful) cinema is that anything that you watch on the screen is done by committee. You can't have any idea of the extent of that unless you have some inside experience of how it works, but let's say that every single day the bigshots sit in a room and watch what the grunts (CGI people, editors, etc) have pushed out that day, and they make comments on what things to change, what needs to go, what additions are needed, etc. As a result, you have a product that is a composite of different visions, and not just the blindingly acute image produced by one single brilliant imagination. Not to mention that nowadays they are always thinking what to add/not to add or how to say things to not even remotely offend anyone.

 

[TheGhostOfAgassi]

It could have been worse. I liked it better then the last jedi.

Me too! It is like a Star Wars soap opera, but made good enough I actually cried at the end there.
I also like it’s more psychedelic the way their minds could connect and be in the same space.

 

[elkwood]

Me too! It is like a Star Wars soap opera, but made good enough I actually cried at the end there.
I also like it’s more psychedelic the way their minds could connect and be in the same space.

I liked that part also. The fight in his chambers was pretty good. I liked the healing part. The
way it played out was pretty easy to see coming.

I wonder if Disney took into account that they wiped out the blood line of the sky walkers.
Though Palpatine line continues.. Which i find funny as hell in a sad way.

 

[TheGhostOfAgassi]

I liked that part also. The fight in his chambers was pretty good. I liked the healing part. The
way it played out was pretty easy to see coming.

I wonder if Disney took into account that they wiped out the blood line of the sky walkers.
Though Palpatine line continues.. Which i find funny as hell in a sad way.

In the movie skywalker said it didn’t matter what your bloodline was but what is in the heart (pretty touching scene btw)

She sort of shared soul w a skywalker blood too, they were like one and he gave his life force to her in the end. Was great! I loved the good vs evil battle in the movie, best I’ve seen since originals imo.

 

[dgold44]

Disney thinks nothing through
They just turn out bad movies

 

[Harry_Wild]

2 hr long review! It is FREE!

 

[Born_to_slice]

Me too! It is like a Star Wars soap opera, but made good enough I actually cried at the end there.
I also like it’s more psychedelic the way their minds could connect and be in the same space.

Star Wars should be Space, not soap Opera. Even if not a serious sci-fi, its world still has some rules and hierarchy upon which it stands. Without those foundations, world is no longer believable. Director/writer that breaks all those rules and is like "anything goes" is not doing anything creative or smart.

 

[bezs]

The story is a rehash of ROTJ.

 

[Harry_Wild]

The story of Lucas in latest Star Wars! Kennedy want Rey to be a God!

 

[Harry_Wild]

Star Wars YouTube! Channel Group Discussion of latest movie!
Only 4+ hours long!

 

[Poisoned Slice]

Yep, it will make people talk for decades and centuries. Guess that is what really matters.

Movie is a huge success.

 

[Poisoned Slice]

The story of Lucas in latest Star Wars! Kennedy want Rey to be a God!

That is criminal, yo.

 

[Born_to_slice]

The Rise of Skywalker alternate cut

 

[TheGhostOfAgassi]

Star Wars should be Space, not soap Opera. Even if not a serious sci-fi, its world still has some rules and hierarchy upon which it stands. Without those foundations, world is no longer believable. Director/writer that breaks all those rules and is like "anything goes" is not doing anything creative or smart.

It’s still sci fi! I think it’s more or less impossible to even try to make them like the originals, hard to make 10 movies in a row to become classics.

 

[vive le beau jeu !]

will there be a 3rd (stand-alone) 'anthology movie' ?

 

[Born_to_slice]

It’s still sci fi! I think it’s more or less impossible to even try to make them like the originals, hard to make 10 movies in a row to become classics.

Yeah, that's why these new movies should've been their own thing. World Disney bought was already beautifully crafted and expanded way beyond OT. But they chose super safe route to rehash and supercharge OT beyond anything believable.

 

[TheGhostOfAgassi]

Yeah, that's why these new movies should've been their own thing. World Disney bought was already beautifully crafted and expanded way beyond OT. But they chose super safe route to rehash and supercharge OT beyond anything believable.

I’m not like a super mega Star Wars fan, but I liked this one quite a lot!! The previous one I fell asleep in the cinema watching This was a pleasant surprise for me!

 

[Born_to_slice]

I’m not like a super mega Star Wars fan, but I liked this one quite a lot!! The previous one I fell asleep in the cinema watching This was a pleasant surprise for me!

I'm not a mega fan as well (owned 1 SW t-shirt in my whole life), but SW world and lore are dear to me. I also appreciate quality film making and this movie (and the whole trilogy) isn't it. TROS is like 3 or 4 movies with conflicting video game level plots, all crammed together and patched up with re-shoots. I'm also really bad with turning off my brain and enjoying mindless action, even when watching movies disconnected from something I care about.

This is really a good review IMO and very close to how I feel about this movie and the whole trilogy:

On a light-hearted side, but still on the point:

 

[Hitman]

I could really go to town on this movie....

But probably best I don't. I mean if you like it, then all the more power to you.

 

[MeatTornado]

My order isn't rigid, but at the moment this is my feeling

Empire Strikes Back
A New Hope
Return of the Jedi
The Force Awakens
Rogue One
Solo
Revenge of the Sith
The Rise of Skywalker
The Last Jedi
The Phantom Menace
Attack of the Clones

I could easily flip-flop ROTJ & TFA as well as ROTS & TROS. Regardless, the latest film is definitely not the worst in my book.

 

[Poisoned Slice]

I could really go to town on this movie....

But probably best I don't. I mean if you like it, then all the more power to you.

Have at it. Don't leave us hanging.

 

[Hitman]

Have at it. Don't leave us hanging.

Have you seen it?

 

[Poisoned Slice]

Have you seen it?

I haven't seen it yet. Tuesday is still the plan all being well. I couldn't resist reading all the spoilers in the end. Pretty much know everything that will happen.

 

[Hitman]

I haven't seen it yet. Tuesday is still the plan all being well. I couldn't resist reading all the spoilers in the end. Pretty much know everything that will happen.

OK. Well I can wait until you see it if you want? Or you really want to see me unleash?

 

[Poisoned Slice]

OK. Well I can wait until you see it if you want? Or you really want to see me unleash?

I'll be patient. haha I am interested to hear your opinion because I know it does not impress the Hitman.