Topspin vs Slice [Return of Serve]

[PURETENNISsense]

Obviously this depends on what serve you are receiving. But......

I find myself hitting a slice and top spin returns on both 1st and 2nd serves.

Mixed variables:
Clay vs Hard vs Grass vs Indoor.
Lefty vs Righty
1HBH vs 2HBH


Here are my reasons why:

The goal on the slice return is to:
A) Make a very high percentage of returns in with a controlled slice
B) Make the opponent uncomfortable by giving them a difficult ball
C) Draw the opponent to the net knowing I feel pretty confident in my pass and lob
D) How many people slice the return now days? So pretty much give them something they might rarely face and see what they can do with it. Test their limits.



When I decide to use Top spin or Slice:
A) The server is serving really big or I'm having trouble reading it. Each have their advantages and disadvantages. It varies depending on who I'm playing and what they like to do as a +1 after their serve.
B) I know the opponent wants a "normal" ball as a return. So the chip is used to disrupt a pattern they may like.
C) 2nd serves that have a lot of kick will generally merit a drive return contact point well inside the court (3/4 court) or a chip return just around the 3/4 area. This one is dependent upon the quality of the 2nd serve.


Why do you hit one or the other? Or both?

 

[HuusHould]

I'd probably go over 1/4 of first serves and 2/3 of second serves. If you want to get the return in then slice is the way to go every day of the week. If your opponent is serving and volleying I think this slightly swings the pendulum in the direction of favouring topspin. I'm a single hander, so I'm more likely to go over my fh on the return relative to the bh. I'm more likely to slice the return of a lefty's serve as I feel it mitigates the disadvantage of the unusual angle of the incoming ball to a point. If I think someone's going to hit a slider 1st to the deuce court (pick it early), I'll generally try to drive the return aggressively. On the return of 1st serve if I premeditate going over the return I'll wait with the relevant grip to drive from the wing I think the server will serve to and just slice if they go the other way. I think you pose a very interesting/pertinent question, so I'd be interested to see what people have to say.

 

[PURETENNISsense]

I'd probably go over 1/4 of first serves and 2/3 of second serves. If you want to get the return in then slice is the way to go every day of the week. If your opponent is serving and volleying I think this slightly swings the pendulum in the direction of favouring topspin. I'm a single hander, so I'm more likely to go over my fh on the return relative to the bh. I'm more likely to slice the return of a lefty's serve as I feel it mitigates the disadvantage of the unusual angle of the incoming ball to a point. If I think someone's going to hit a slider 1st to the deuce court (pick it early), I'll generally try to drive the return aggressively. On the return of 1st serve if I premeditate going over the return I'll wait with the relevant grip to drive from the wing I think the server will serve to and just slice if they go the other way. I think you pose a very interesting/pertinent question, so I'd be interested to see what people have to say.

I agree on the S&V tactic that Top spin is key.

I tend to have a bit of trouble initially in a match against a lefty server so I'll slice the Return to get a feel of it.

Sometimes I feel it's just an awesome day to change things up. Why not? Many of us hit a slice in the middle of a point to change the point dynamic. I feel it's just as important to do the same on an initial shot in a point.

Thanks for the insightful response... I'm really curious to see what input others bring to this.

 

[HuusHould]

I agree on the S&V tactic that Top spin is key.

The flipside is that it's important to S&V often against a good slice returner. I play a guy who slices 9/10 returns of 1st serve and probably 3/10 second serves (normally bhs). His slice returns are a nightmare to return on synthetic grass if you don't S&V. He has a Borglike 2 handed release slice bh (the slice equivalent of Borgs drive) that gives him more revolutions on the ball and often drop shots the return of second serve. So I get stuck in no mans land trying to guard against the drop shot. Hitting a drive volley or half volley off the back foot in reply to a floater slice is not the ideal situation after hitting a 1st serve.

I tend to have a bit of trouble initially in a match against a lefty server so I'll slice the Return to get a feel of it.

This approach makes sense. The new ball tends to move in the air a bit more as well which makes things harder, along with not being used to the lefty serve.

 

[Clash Ah ah]

Against good servers, I tend to slice/chip on my forehand side and hit a double handed punch on my backhand, unless I’m caught out by a body serve and I’ll hit a jabby backhand slice.

 

[PURETENNISsense]

The flipside is that it's important to S&V often against a good slice returner. I play a guy who slices 9/10 returns of 1st serve and probably 3/10 second serves (normally bhs). His slice returns are a nightmare to return on synthetic grass if you don't S&V. He has a Borglike 2 handed release slice bh (the slice equivalent of Borgs drive) that gives him more revolutions on the ball and often drop shots the return of second serve. So I get stuck in no mans land trying to guard against the drop shot. Hitting a drive volley or half volley off the back foot in reply to a floater slice is not the ideal situation after hitting a 1st serve.



This approach makes sense. The new ball tends to move in the air a bit more as well which makes things harder, along with not being used to the lefty serve.

You are spot on with your responses! Sounds like you've got a lot of experience playing a lot of different gamestyles and surfaces.

Coaches don't really teach the chip/slice return anymore, it's curious to me. I coach many of my players to use it, but I don't remember being told to use it much.

As far as a slice Returner, I was told told to always try and S&V against them. From a young age and that always stuck with me.

 

[fuzz nation]

I got to play a lot on grass courts at a local club when I was growing up (I'm 54). That made me a S&V'er as a kid and I didn't learn much of a baseline game until I got older. Out of necessity I learned how to slice on both sides before developing much of any topspin strokes. Even when I played on hard courts with my high school team I was jumping on the net all the time.

So I also embraced a slice return of serve early on and that's still my default return now. I think it's an ideal option when playing singles (for me) because it's so consistent - I'm with the camp that considers missing returns of serve as roughly the equivalent of double faulting. My slice return is also a very good neutralizer because I can usually slide that ball back low and deep to my opponent's end where he/she can't go too big with a second shot.

But my slice return can definitely be a liability when playing good doubles. Ambitious opponents (server's partner) might look to poach my slice return if I don't zip it cross court enough to keep it away from them. I've worked on developing a stronger topspin return through recent years for when I need that capacity to shoot my return through the court and keep opponents a little more off balance - more for doubles than singles. I generally hit a one-handed backhand, but I'll use a two-hander to produce an aggressive topspin return because that style can set and fire more quickly, at least for now.

Because I grew up playing S&V, I can say that my natural tendency when returning serve against that sort of player is to try to cut (cut = compact slice) my return down into that attacker's feet. That's the toughest return for me to deal with when I S&V (aside from a hot passing shot). If I could hit a good dipping topspin drive, maybe I'd use that, but it still wouldn't be as consistent as my cutter. That's a case of what works for me, but isn't necessarily best for everybody.

I coach high school teams and it kills me that so many of the kids almost exclusively try to hit returns like regular ground strokes. Against any half-decent server, they're borderline helpless. Sometimes my progression when working on serve returns with the troops is to start with drilling their volleys a little bit and then back them up to hit some returns, but I cue them to use a move that's more like a volley to hit the ball. If I turn up the heat on my feeds, the volley move is the only thing that lets them pop the return back into play.

 

[Dartagnan64]

The other variable is doubles vs singles.
Slice returns can be fatal in doubles unless hit at acute angles away from the net player. I tend to hit topspin or blocked returns in doubles with the latter being lob height against active net players.

I'll slice more in singles on the backhand wing especially from deuce court. Topspin shots from the ad side.

 

[derick232]

Come over the top as much as I can, slice if I'm pulled really wide or guess wrong on the direction. Regardless of their serve I'll throw in a SABR every once in a while with either a half volley or attempted drop shot. I find the SABR especially fun to do on big servers even though it usually doesn't work out. If it does work, it can be demoralizing to the opponent, and if not it still shows I'm not scared of their big serve.

 

[socallefty]

I am a lefty who plays almost entirely on hard courts.

Singles
- I don't slice my FH, always topspin drive or block return (off fast serves).
- On deuce, I will hit some BH slice returns and BH topspin drives early to see if which one troubles the opponent more. Depending on the answer, I might keep using both or use one more often. I tend to slice very wide serves. Sometimes, I will stand well back and moonball/lob some 2nd serves for variety also to disrupt server's rhythm.
- On ad, I'll drive the return if I am hitting a BH DTL. If I'm hitting an inside-out BH cross-court, I slice it sometimes - again frequency will depend on how effective it is. If I get jammed by a body serve on the BH side, I'll likely slice it also.

Doubles - almost always play the ad court
- Topspin drive returns on the FH with occasional lobs
- BH inside-out is mostly a slice short angle cross-court. Occasionally, I'll drive a deeper BH return if the server is staying back. Will also lob some if the server is very quick in coming to the net.
- When I occasionally play the deuce court, I drive FH returns and many BH returns - I tend to hit a lot more lob returns on wide serves to my BH when playing deuce.

 

[travlerajm]

Singles
- slice my fh return 100% of time.
- topspin drive bh 95% of the time.

Doubles
-slice fh return 50% of time (ad court)
-slice fh lob 50% of time
-topspin drive 90% of time
-flattish topspin lob 10% of time

 

[tonylg]

The only time I slice a forehand is when approaching on a really slick court. I never return serve with a forehand slice.

Backhand depends on the court and the opponent.

If it's a heavily textured hard court (90% unfortunately) then I'll mostly use the slice backhand in doubles (probably 50:50) because I can pretty consistently place it wide and at the server's feet. Changing it up prevents the incoming server from getting into a groove. I'll obviously give him more of what works best. Singles on slow courts there's less value in a good slice return, so it's more a deep defensive chip when in trouble.

On a slick court, I'll use it a lot more in singles. Not just the floating chip most people call a slice return or the short angle, but the deep knifed attacking slice that hopefully draws a short ball I can attack. I find this one of the most satifying shots in tennis.

 

[MaxTennis]

Even though I have a one handed backhand, I consider my return one of my strengths.

I typically stand right on top of the baseline and will try to hit over every return unless I play a big server (120 mph+). Only then will I have to resort to slicing or chipping because the serve is just coming in too hot.

 

[PURETENNISsense]

latter being lob height against active net players

Another very underated return. I would actively coach the Mens and Women's team at the college I was at to chip the Return of serve over the net player when facing a very aggressive and active net player. Proved to be very effective in messing up the point dynamic as well for the other teams.

 

[socallefty]

Even though I have a one handed backhand, I consider my return one of my strengths.

I typically stand right on top of the baseline and will try to hit over every return unless I play a big server (120 mph+). Only then will I have to resort to slicing or chipping because the serve is just coming in too hot.

At your 5.0 level, the opponents probably get to slices/chips quickly, bend their knees low and hit back with a lot of topspin using a more vertical swing path. At the 4.5 (and below) level especially against 40+ age players with creaky knees and lower fitness levels, some are slow to get to short slices/chips and don’t get low enough to start their swing meaning that they make net errors or give a reply without much spin - so, it is worth hitting a few early in a match to check how they deal with it. Some players do better with high contact points, others with low contact points while advanced players can do it all.

 

[HuusHould]

You are spot on with your responses! Sounds like you've got a lot of experience playing a lot of different gamestyles

Thanks @PURETENNISsense. Yes, I've played a pretty good distribution of all the gamestyles in practice. I used to try and seek out players that simulated my upcoming tournament/comp opponents as closely as possible. Most of my tennis (especially practice) has been played on synthetic grass, I've played a fair bit of comp on hard/clay -courts and a couple of grasscourt tournaments.

Coaches don't really teach the chip/slice return anymore, it's curious to me. I coach many of my players to use it, but I don't remember being told to use it much

Yeah, that's true. I coach it as well. I've noticed on videos on this forum that in the US the slice isn't used a lot even during the rally. Probably due to the fact that most of your tennis is played on hard court (generally a bit truer/higher bouncing and slower than the synthetic grass, that is (still) the most common surface here in Australia). We slice more, including defensive or approach shot fhs, (against a big serve in excess of 180km/h its the only option on the return, especially on the bh wing of a single hander). I think we have a higher proportion of single handed players as a result of synthetic grass being a faster and lower bouncing surface, which seems a bit counterintuitive given how well the double handed bh takes pace and the fact that single handers often need time to wind up, hence players like Wawrinka like playing on clay and struggle on grass. But I've noticed in the videos on here that almost everyone has a double hander.

As far as a slice Returner, I was told told to always try and S&V against them. From a young age and that always stuck with me.

Yeah it would've served you well I'm guessing!? It forces them to go over the return, which, chances are, they'd prefer not to.

I play against a guy who would be your 5.0 equivalent. (The one with the Borglike slice). He's become a synthetic grass court specialist I guess as a function of playing on it a lot and adapting. He has the best drop shot and most penetrating slice bh I've come across. He gets more revs on the slice than almost anyone as well and consequently when he comes around the high ball he opens up the court like hes hitting a lefty slice serve! In addition to his slice game, he has a Borglike drive bh which he can put on a dime dtl, an aggressive roll fh xcourt and a fadeaway off fh, both with which he can routinely hit winners. (especially in reply to a weak 2nd serve).

I remember early on in my career I read Vic Bradens "tennis 2000" which I thought was a decent instructional, but I took a couple of things as gospel that to me over time proved to be very debatable. He said that top spin is a better shot to hit when you're nervous (e.g. the start of the match and when the set/match is on the line) as you can "open the shoulders/hit out" and the ball will still go in. He also said to "wait until you win your national title before you start drop shotting- especially on big points".

Now this 5.0 level player who we refer to as "choppy", because he slices so much, has an opinion diametrically opposed to Vic's. Even though he has devastating drives he's said to me; "under pressure I just slice, unless I get a really easy ball, there's too much that can go wrong if you go over the ball, it's such a solid shot and very difficult for them (your opponent) to attack. I let them take all the risk when it really counts."
In general he says that, when you slice - "you can keep your opponent off balance as they always have to respect the drop shot when you shape to slice. If I'm missing or they're successfully attacking it, I'll put more or less work on the ball."

It also generally makes for a better approach shot, especially if you can't make them really stretch for the passing shot and are consequently relying on keeping the ball low. Admittedly if you can get them to hit a kicking topspin ball at full stretch, they're likely to pop it up, resulting in a regulation volley. But that same kicking ball when they're in position allows them more opportunity to get the pass down at your feet.

When pressed with wide balls, choppy will hit heavy slice, which floats the ball back and gives him time to recover. He'd prefer it if they don't sneak in to the net when he does this, but even if they do, they're volleying a ball with no pace, that does weird s?it off their racquet face (sometimes it sticks to the strings) at impact due to the high revs hes put on the shot.

 

[PURETENNISsense]

Against any half-decent server, they're borderline helpless.

Absolutely!

Doubles
-slice fh return 50% of time (ad court)
-slice fh lob 50% of time

You hit this one with a solid enough angle the net guy doesn't poach?

I've always struggled with the chip return in dubs. Unless they pull me wide and I can create and angle back.

 

[PURETENNISsense]

Most of my tennis (especially practice) has been played on synthetic grass, I've played a fair bit of comp on hard/clay -courts and a couple of grasscourt tournaments.

I hit on grass a couple times in my life and then played a Men's Open at the ATP 250 Newport location. That was a successful and very fun tournament for me. With only a day of practice on the grass before the start of the event, I felt super comfortable and really enjoyed the surface. It quickly become my favorite surface to play on but way too expensive and almost impossible to find here in Georgia and even more so in the U.S

I found a Synthetic Grass court nearby where I live, about 30 mins away. That surface was a lot of fun too. I was able to record a match of it and post some highlights on my YT channel with the whole match on my friends YouTube Channel. I've never played on Synthetic grass but staying low was key and not blasting serves was benficial as well. keeping the serves at 75-80% power but imparting a good bit of spin ended up working better. It seemed like the skid of the slice or kick (attempted kick) would interact with the court surface more at lower mph than how I would hit it on a hard or clay court. Found myself getting to net alot and wanting to slide as well. It had a sandy sub layer... is that typical?

Vic Bradens "tennis 2000"

Haven't heard of this one... need to check it out just for the fun of it. I was given Vic Braden's Mental Tennis: How to Psych Yourself to a Winning Game when I was in HS, read parts of it back then.

When pressed with wide balls, choppy will hit heavy slice, which floats the ball back and gives him time to recover.

I think it would be super interesting to see this guy play. There's really not much slice to watch nowdays. I really liked Graf's slice growing up. That shot was always like a unicorn to me.... didn't see it too much as I got older but her's remains imprinted on me with how much success she had.

 

[travlerajm]

Absolutely!

You hit this one with a solid enough angle the net guy doesn't poach?

I've always struggled with the chip return in dubs. Unless they pull me wide and I can create and angle back.

To be honest, my full commitment to the slice return helped my singles return more than my doubles return. In doubles, I’m definitely an ad-court guy, because it’s much easier to get the slice past the netman when it’s on the inside wing. I also need to position myself inside the court if possible, to take it earlier. The slice makes taking the return earlier a lot easier in general. Lastly, when relying on a chip return in doubles, the lob chip return becomes really important - you have to be really good at controlling the chip lob, because the threat of the chip lob is needed to keep the netman far enough off the net to allow me to chip low and crosscourt.

 

[Dartagnan64]

Another very underated return. I would actively coach the Mens and Women's team at the college I was at to chip the Return of serve over the net player when facing a very aggressive and active net player. Proved to be very effective in messing up the point dynamic as well for the other teams.

As an active net player I've noticed that teams that fail to hit the high lob return are in for a long day. If they figure out the lob return can neutralize me, then it's more problematic. Now I have to mix in deep positioning to make them think twice and that makes poaching harder.

 

[Shroud]

I usually set up to hit drives which means a sw fh grip that I use also for the one hander. So topspin mostly. But if its a great serve I will slice. Though some times I want to get it in or chip and charge or sabr I will switch to continental and slice.

Also is a drop return winner a slice shot? I hit those on occasion to switch it up.

I love driving lefty spin serves with my topspin bh. Its awesome to see the look on their face when that bread and butter serve comes back at them...

 

[HuusHould]

I hit on grass a couple times in my life and then played a Men's Open at the ATP 250 Newport location. That was a successful and very fun tournament for me. With only a day of practice on the grass before the start of the event, I felt super comfortable and really enjoyed the surface. It quickly become my favorite surface to play on but way too expensive and almost impossible to find here in Georgia and even more so in the U.S

Yeah it looks like a nice centre at Rhode island. Did you win the tournament? When I played on grass, I made sure I played a couple of doubles events in order to get used to it. The first time I played, I made it through a couple of rounds of the Special and then lost 9-7 to a kid who was on a junior Davis Cup winning team a couple of years later. he had also beaten me in the Open draw a couple of days earlier 6-3 6-3, but the second time I served a lot better, so was able to S&V more and I think I should've won. While there's benefit in S&Ving on the grass, I noticed a lot of players just playing their usual game from the baseline. So you're in Georgia the country? I just assume most people on here are from the US!

I found a Synthetic Grass court nearby where I live, about 30 mins away. That surface was a lot of fun too. I was able to record a match of it and post some highlights on my YT channel with the whole match on my friends YouTube Channel.

Where can I find the match on youtube?

I've never played on Synthetic grass but staying low was key and not blasting serves was benficial as well.

Yeah, if you get very low you can guard against the inevitable skidding ball that you'll get here and there and it gives you the option of hitting topspin.

As far as not blasting serves goes I think it varies, on a slower sun grass court I'd recommend this, some of the faster ones you can get good value from going big. Although it of course depends on your opponents ability to handle pace. Often big serves can easily be chipped back deep with a volley like action, or blocked back flat without much trouble.

Found myself getting to net alot and wanting to slide as well. It had a sandy sub layer... is that typical?

Yeah definitely getting to the net is a good play and sliding is the way to go. Sometimes though if there's not much sand on the court and it's a little bit damp, you can grip in attempting to slide and you need to move more like you're playing on a hard court.

I'm not sure about the sandy sublayer. I know there's literally tonnes of sand on the court though. I help rip up a couple of syn grass courts years ago, I think there was some sort of (black) asphalt beneath and some sand that had come off the mats we pulled up. The actual mat weighs less than half what it does before shaking out the sand. One issue can be the seams on the court, as usually theres at least a couple of seams between mats, normally running parallel to the sidelines.

Haven't heard of this one... need to check it out just for the fun of it. I was given Vic Braden's Mental Tennis: How to Psych Yourself to a Winning Game when I was in HS, read parts of it back then.

Oh right, I'll have to have a look at his psych book as well!

I think it would be super interesting to see this guy play. There's really not much slice to watch nowdays. I really liked Graf's slice growing up. That shot was always like a unicorn to me.... didn't see it too much as I got older but her's remains imprinted on me with how much success she had.

I've forgotten how to post a video, but I have done it before on here. Eventually I should be able to post some footage of the guy (playing me most likely). If we played 20 sets, I'd probably win about 2, so if I beat him he'd refuse permission. He gets fairly angry (even more than me), so we might have to edit it haha

 

[Devil_dog]

In singles matches, I use slice a bit more on returns. In doubles, I definitely drive the ball more. I also throw up lobs more in doubles, too.

 

[PURETENNISsense]

In singles matches, I use slice a bit more on returns. In doubles, I definitely drive the ball more. I also throw up lobs more in doubles, too.

Completely agree with the lobs for doubles... a very under-rated and under-used return for dubs.

 

[socallefty]

Completely agree with the lobs for doubles... a very uner-rated and under-used return for dubs.

The lob return is neither under-rated nor under-used in most adult rec tennis unless you are playing 5.0+ tennis. Many players hit a high % of lob returns on their BH side especially if they have a 1HBH and are playing on the ad court (deuce for lefties).

 

[socallefty]

I love driving lefty spin serves with my topspin bh. Its awesome to see the look on their face when that bread and butter serve comes back at them...

I don’t understand why this is a problem. I’m a lefty and when I hit my lefty slice wide on ad in singles, I want the return to come right back to me or to the middle 60% of the court. Then I can hit a inside-out FH or CC-BH to the open space in the deuce corner to either take charge of the BL rally by forcing a running FH from my opponent or I’ll approach the net if my serve+1 shot is good enough. In doubles, a return DTM right back to me is either poached by my partner or it gives me a high volley that I can hit offensively while I come to the net.

The return I don’t like off my lefty slice serve in singles is a short cross-court wide chip return to my FH that stays low as here I‘m in the doubles alley while hitting my shot which is bad court position to do much with. If it’s a weak ball, then maybe I can hit a winner DTL or a short cross-court angle. But, if I don’t hit a winner, I’m off the court and my opponent is in good position to yank a deep shot to my BH corner which is wide open. In doubles, this return is also effective as the opposing net guy is in prime position to intercept my reply and my only recourse might be to get a lob over him or to hit a short CC dipper back to the returner that is too low for the other net guy to poach.

 

[PURETENNISsense]

The lob return is neither under-rated nor under-used in most adult rec tennis unless you are playing 5.0+ tennis. Many players hit a high % of lob returns on their BH side especially if they have a 1HBH and are playing on the ad court (deuce for lefties).

I see what you mean. I haven't played adult league innovation 4 years. This winter was my first season back and I didn't see any return lobs. Makes sense according to what you said, it was a 5.0 team. I don't coach and Adult Men's 4.0-4.5 teams. I'm sure I would see it there.

 

[Shroud]

I don’t understand why this is a problem. I’m a lefty and when I hit my lefty slice wide on ad in singles, I want the return to come right back to me or to the middle 60% of the court. Then I can hit a inside-out FH or CC-BH to the open space in the deuce corner to either take charge of the BL rally by forcing a running FH from my opponent or I’ll approach the net if my serve+1 shot is good enough. In doubles, a return DTM right back to me is either poached by my partner or it gives me a high volley that I can hit offensively while I come to the net.

The return I don’t like off my lefty slice serve in singles is a short cross-court wide chip return to my FH that stays low as here I‘m in the doubles alley while hitting my shot which is bad court position to do much with. If it’s a weak ball, then maybe I can hit a winner DTL or a short cross-court angle. But, if I don’t hit a winner, I’m off the court and my opponent is in good position to yank a deep shot to my BH corner which is wide open. In doubles, this return is also effective as the opposing net guy is in prime position to intercept my reply and my only recourse might be to get a lob over him or to hit a short CC dipper back to the returner that is too low for the other net guy to poach.

I think you may have taken things a bit tooo literal. Lots of lefties get free points in the ad serving out wide to righties backhands. They love seeing a 1 hander on the otherside. Not being used to the ball coming back in general they make a face when I nail a return back at them (which could just be in play or a winner or DTM...anything in is a rude awakening when its not a free point outright or a weak floater).

 

[PURETENNISsense]

Did you win the tournament?

No I didn't but I played really well. Made Quarters for singles and semis for doubles.

USTA National Men's Open, Women's Open, Mxd Open Grass Court Championships: Home

USTA National Men's Open, Women's Open, Mxd Open Grass Court Championships: Home

kid who was on a junior Davis Cup winning team a couple of years later. he had also beaten me in the Open draw a couple of days earlier 6-3 6-3

That must have been a fun experience to see the kid do well and know you played against him.
I had a really tight match with Joe Salisbury (https://www.atptour.com/en/players/joe-salisbury/so70/overview) A few years before he made it big in the dubs scene.

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Where can I find the match on youtube?

I'll send you on a DM

I'm not sure about the sandy sublayer. I know there's literally tonnes of sand on the court though. I help rip up a couple of syn grass courts years ago, I think there was some sort of (black) asphalt beneath and some sand that had come off the mats we pulled up. The actual mat weighs less than half what it does before shaking out the sand.

That must have been a really cool experience. I studied architecture so I'm always intrigued by the process and construction of things. I would love to design my own tennis facility one day.... no capital though haha!

 

[PURETENNISsense]

Now I have to mix in deep positioning to make them think twice and that makes poaching harder.

Absolutely! Even if they get to hit and overhead and convert a couple points that way... it makes the poaching a lot more "questionable" knowing that at any time a lob could be put up and change the point dynamic from the 2nd shot hit. I've seen this really mess with the serving side's head and strategy in college matches.

 

[Cashman]

I will slice the majority of my backhand returns. People just don’t serve and volley these days, so I can’t see the point in trying to hit over the top.

I don’t think I’ve ever sliced a forehand return unless I was trying to hit a drop shot. It’s far easier to hit topspin on that wing.

 

[WestboroChe]

I slice the majority of my first serve returns. Second serve I’m looking to attack unless they have a very strong second serve.

I don’t have any specific reason for slicing those returns other than it works. It took me a long time to learn to return well and in that time I discovered that if I just hit my returns with a bit of slice they were much more likely land in the court.

 

[WestboroChe]

I think you may have taken things a bit tooo literal. Lots of lefties get free points in the ad serving out wide to righties backhands. They love seeing a 1 hander on the otherside. Not being used to the ball coming back in general they make a face when I nail a return back at them (which could just be in play or a winner or DTM...anything in is a rude awakening when its not a free point outright or a weak floater).

That’s exactly what happens to me too. During warm up people see my slicing my backhand and just assume they can attack it. But I love hitting those returns out wide and slicing it down the line or right at their feet. Give me some pace to use too and if I’m a happy returner.

 

[Shroud]

I will slice the majority of my backhand returns. People just don’t serve and volley these days, so I can’t see the point in trying to hit over the top.

I don’t think I’ve ever sliced a forehand return unless I was trying to hit a drop shot. It’s far easier to hit topspin on that wing.

even if stretched wide?

 

[Cashman]

even if stretched wide?

I’m a lefty so I cheat pretty hard to the forehand. I don’t get stretched wide very often on the return.

 

[PURETENNISsense]

People just don’t serve and volley these days,

I do when I find my opponents struggle with my serve. Do you still S&V? Esp with the kick serve wide on the Ad.

 

[Cashman]

I do when I find my opponents struggle with my serve. Do you still S&V? Esp with the kick serve wide on the Ad.

I serve and volley almost exclusively. But I very rarely come across an opponent who does, and when they do their net game usually leaves a bit to be desired.

 

[Shroud]

I serve and volley almost exclusively. But I very rarely come across an opponent who does, and when they do their net game usually leaves a bit to be desired.

I play the same opponents regularly. I serve and volley more than anyone. Occasionally my singles opponent will serve and volley. OMG I win like 90% of those points. usually drive returns that cuff him. Or some times I am chipping and charging and the slice DTL approach is a winner. I wish he would come in as much as I do.

 

[HuusHould]

No I didn't but I played really well. Made Quarters for singles and semis for doubles.

Yeah, that sounds like a successful tournament.

That must have been a fun experience to see the kid do well and know you played against him.

Yeah, he wasn't a bad kid and I enjoyed the matches. His name was Joey Swaysland, he was 6ft at 13 when I played him, so I guess some of his later growing peers were always going to catch up. I didnt hear anything of him after the jnr Davis Cup.

I had a really tight match with Joe Salisbury (https://www.atptour.com/en/players/joe-salisbury/so70/overview) A few years before he made it big in the dubs scene.

That does sound tight. Ive seen a bit of Salisbury, hes a very good player. Pretty cool that you've played at futures level as well.

That must have been a really cool experience. I studied architecture so I'm always intrigued by the process and construction of things. I would love to design my own tennis facility one day.... no capital though haha

Yeah it was interesting. The synthetic grass court you played on looks like it almost didn't have any sand on it? Some of the ones we have here are like playing at the beach haha

 

[PURETENNISsense]

Yeah, he wasn't a bad kid and I enjoyed the matches. His name was Joey Swaysland, he was 6ft at 13 when I played him, so I guess some of his later growing peers were always going to catch up. I didnt hear anything of him after the jnr Davis Cup.

Joey Swaysland vs. Amyn Soldier-Mukadam - USA F21 - TennisLive.com

compare: Joey Swaysland vs. Amyn Soldier-Mukadam - USA F21

www.tennislive.net

No way it's this guy? Small world. He was pretty solid I remember.

The synthetic grass court you played on looks like it almost didn't have any sand on it? Some of the ones we have here are like playing at the beach haha

Yea it was pretty much washed out. Only way to see it was by getting on your knees and separating the grass. Is it pretty prevalent in Australia to have syn. grass? I've never seen them here in the US, except for the lucky find I got to play a match on.

 

[PURETENNISsense]

I play the same opponents regularly. I serve and volley more than anyone. Occasionally my singles opponent will serve and volley. OMG I win like 90% of those points. usually drive returns that cuff him. Or some times I am chipping and charging and the slice DTL approach is a winner. I wish he would come in as much as I do.

Just saw your signature with the racket specs... Kevlar at 86lbs?? wow! You must have an elbow made of steel haha. I used to use Kevlar but it messed my arm up. I think I was stringing it too tight and used it as a 15yr old. I'm sure now it would be alright but back then it was pretty tough.

I serve and volley more than anyone.

What surface do you typically play these people on?

 

[PURETENNISsense]

I’m a lefty so I cheat pretty hard to the forehand.

Does the Righty Kick serve bother you? If they can effectively get it to the FH/BH spots.

 

[PURETENNISsense]

Also is a drop return winner a slice shot? I hit those on occasion to switch it up.

Fed hits those... Probably only guy on tour who does. I can't recall anyone else who does so.

 

[Cashman]

Does the Righty Kick serve bother you? If they can effectively get it to the FH/BH spots.

If it’s good, but honestly very few rec players at my level have a genuinely spicy kicker.

 

[HuusHould]

No way it's this guy? Small world. He was pretty solid I remember.

Yeah, that's him! It is a small world! He'd be pretty handy at 20! He liked pace on his double handed return, and I wasn't getting a lot of first serves in the first time I played him, so I just hit sliders regardless of which way I was serving and that worked ok. Did he still say "c'mon" every time he hit it near the line and you couldn't get to it? haha Other than that he was a nice kid and good sport. He was #3 in Tomics 14 and under age group. I played the #2 (Todd Volmari) not long after and lost in the match tiebreak on clay. I was in my mid 20s at the time.

Yea it was pretty much washed out. Only way to see it was by getting on your knees and separating the grass. Is it pretty prevalent in Australia to have syn. grass? I've never seen them here in the US, except for the lucky find I got to play a match on.

Yeah, the majority of courts here are synthetic grass. I'd say about 60% overall. At one stage we were tossing up whether to make the AO on syn grass. A good syn grass court is very nice to play on, about 50% of them aren't great though.

 

[Happi]

Fed hits those... Probably only guy on tour who does. I can't recall anyone else who does so.

then have a look at this match

 

[PURETENNISsense]

then have a look at this match

Haha yes!! Forgot about Mr. Brown!

 

[Shroud]

Just saw your signature with the racket specs... Kevlar at 86lbs?? wow! You must have an elbow made of steel haha. I used to use Kevlar but it messed my arm up. I think I was stringing it too tight and used it as a 15yr old. I'm sure now it would be alright but back then it was pretty tough.

What surface do you typically play these people on?

Played on clay once in the last decade. Rest is hard court

problem with kevlar in the past is it was crossed with syngut. That created a locked bed. Those are harsher because the mains dont slide. With poly crosses it can be less harsh because the mains can move

Also its a 110” with a huge cushy grip and a high swingweight.