Transitioning to Gamma 5003 stringing machine

[pico]

Hi all. I just got a Gamma 5003 stringing machine (with WISE tensioner) and my only exposure to stringing machines has been my trusted Klippermate. Can anyone offer suggestions / videos on how to better transition to the Gamma 5003. I did my first string job yesterday on it. Some things I observed initially:
1) Tougher to weave / do tieoffs due to the extra mounts compared to the Klippermate
2) Still have to get used on how to orient the clamps
3) Is it best practise to get the strings into a grommet one at a time and then tension or get them into many grommets at once and then tension the string loops between grommets (or it doesnt matter?).

 

[LOBALOT]

Personally I would just let it come to you by stringing more racquets.

I am not a huge fan of pre-weaving everything as I just think it gets to be a jumbled up mess and also you end up with a bunch of string to pull through after tensioning the further along you go.

As far as clamps go on the mains I usually only get one ahead on each side until I transition to outside the throat or need to rotate the clamps to "levers in" and when I do I usually do 2 mains on that side and then 3 on the other and then continue no more than 1 ahead after that so that way the levers don't "clank into each other" in the center of the frame.

I string mostly 2 piece and for crosses I don't flip the clamp on the side with the starting clamp until I can't go further down the racquet. I then tension the top cross and then rotate the clamp and go from there if that makes sense.

 

[Irvin]

1) Tougher to weave / do tieoffs due to the extra mounts compared to the Klippermate

Most people don’t talk much about it but as you adjust the micro knobs on a 6 point machine you move the point where the side supports hit the frame. As you move the 12 support toward the center of the turntBle you must move the 6 support away, and vice versa. You should be able to find a point where the side supports don’t block grommets.

2) Still have to get used on how to orient the clamps

Keep the clamps above the the base clamp in the top of the racket. When you string the bottom hald turn the clamps down below the bases.

3) Is it best practise to get the strings into a grommet one at a time and then tension or get them into many grommets at once and then tension the string loops between grommets (or it doesnt matter?).

I bet everyone wants to do that at one time or another. Don’t do it you‘ll be limiting your ability to fan the string. You’ll lock any testing in the string weakening the string and changing the string characteristic. If you have a square, hexagon, octogon string, or other shaped strings you will see a twisting in the string. Weave 1 ahead but that’s all

 

[jim e]

@LOBALOT is correct, I dislike pre weaving everything as well, as the strings get in the way that are not tensioned with the mains. Main strings don't take long to install anyways, and as far as cross strings go, it's typically better to weave one ahead, as it makes weaving easier, and is better on the strings.

 

[pico]

Great info you guys. Thank you!

 

[Irvin]

@pico I have a Gamma X-STRINGER and a six point machine. One big difference is how the racket is mounted and taken off the machine. Don’t get you mounts too tight or when you take the racket off you could have issues. To take the racket off I like to first loosen the 6 support, second the lower side supports, third the 12 support, and then slide the racket down as I release the upper supports.

You may notice at times, after you clamp a string, lock the base, and remove tension the clamp can twist the string off its straight path to the grommet. This can be caused from a few issue. More than likely you’re pushing the base as you lock it. It could be the base adjust if off. And it could be too much play between the clamp post and base hosel. This is very similar to the twisting you got from drawback with your KM clamps but there more you can do about it if you know what you’re looking for. For the most part that twisting is recovered on the next pull so there isn’t too much to worry about except for that last string you’ll be tying off. Try to get that one as straight as possible. Another time when that comes into play is on the crosses. Most stringer use 2 clamps for the crosses. If twisting occurs on clamp make sure it is removed as you tension the next string by resetting the base clamp before you move the clamp to the string you’re tensioning.

With the Wise you may have a diablo. Use it, if you have one, as it releases about 50% of the gripper pressure on the string which can damage the string.

Don‘t ever use the lockout feature on the Wise trying to emulate a LO stringer. They do not work the same.

 

[Irvin]

@pico another quirk about using an electronic tension is how tension is pulled. The speed of pull varies in some machines relative to the stiffness of the string. Not sure if that’s the case in the Wise or not. But just to be safe I would make sure the string you’re pulling is taught and straight befor you tension it, especially the cross strings. If the string isn’t straight the tensioner could yank the string and puts more and less tension in side by string mains and crosses. Make sure as you straighten an tug on each string there isn it a kink in the string outside the frame as this could easily damage the string. With your KM machine you would tug on the string as you lowered the DW so there wasn’t a jerky motion.

EDIT: On your KM if you had too much slack in a string when it was placed in the gripper you would have to reset and lower the DW again. It’s easy to allow the Wise to ‘auto reset’ that slack but I’m not sure you’ll get the same results. Consistency is key but don’t allow too much technology to get in the way of good methods.

 

[pico]

@pico I have a Gamma X-STRINGER and a six point machine. One big difference is how the racket is mounted and taken off the machine. Don’t get you mounts too tight or when you take the racket off you could have issues. To take the racket off I like to first loosen the 6 support, second the lower side supports, third the 12 support, and then slide the racket down as I release the upper supports.

You may notice at times, after you clamp a string, lock the base, and remove tension the clamp can twist the string off its straight path to the grommet. This can be caused from a few issue. More than likely you’re pushing the base as you lock it. It could be the base adjust if off. And it could be too much play between the clamp post and base hosel. This is very similar to the twisting you got from drawback with your KM clamps but there more you can do about it if you know what you’re looking for. For the most part that twisting is recovered on the next pull so there isn’t too much to worry about except for that last string you’ll be tying off. Try to get that one as straight as possible. Another time when that comes into play is on the crosses. Most stringer use 2 clamps for the crosses. If twisting occurs on clamp make sure it is removed as you tension the next string by resetting the base clamp before you move the clamp to the string you’re tensioning.

With the Wise you may have a diablo. Use it, if you have one, as it releases about 50% of the gripper pressure on the string which can damage the string.

Don‘t ever use the lockout feature on the Wise trying to emulate a LO stringer. They do not work the same.

Thanks a lot Irvin. One thing I did notice when I did crosses is that the clamp would move against the mains as I pulled tension and move the mains. Is this as expected or related to the base / clamp issues that you mentioned?

 

[Irvin]

Thanks a lot Irvin. One thing I did notice when I did crosses is that the clamp would move against the mains as I pulled tension and move the mains. Is this as expected or related to the base / clamp issues that you mentioned?

Pretty much that’s going to happen and some times you can’t correct it. When you tension a string the direction of the pull is opposite the next pull. So the frame is pulled in one direction one time and in the opposite direction on the next pull. With the 5003 you have a fixed clamp held stationary by the base clamp. On your KM you had a floating or flying clamp that could move with the direction of the pull. I don’t feel it is important to get the clamp as close to the frame as possible when you clamp a string because the frame will more and the clamp not so much. I usually try to fit the clamp into the cross pattern of mains and cross that distorts the mains strings the least and leave a little breathing room for frame movement at the same time.

EDIT: At the same time I do try to get the clamp as near as is convenient to the frame. I don’t want the clamp pushing back on the frame as I tension a string.

 

[pico]

Another question: once the WISE pulls and registers a tension, I noticed that when I clamp, there can be a tendency usually for the tension to go up. At this point, do I unclamp and let it settle down again or just ignore the increase and proceed?

 

[Irvin]

Another question: once the WISE pulls and registers a tension, I noticed that when I clamp, there can be a tendency usually for the tension to go up. At this point, do I unclamp and let it settle down again or just ignore the increase and proceed?

Release tension and move on

 

[pico]

Another annoyance is the mounts at 10 and 2 and 4 and 8. I find it hard to position the mount there. Even though I leave the holes there unblocked, as the tensioner pulls the cross it rubs against the red protector on the mount. One of my polys even cut a little into it. How can I avoid this?

 

[Irvin]

Another annoyance is the mounts at 10 and 2 and 4 and 8. I find it hard to position the mount there. Even though I leave the holes there unblocked, as the tensioner pulls the cross it rubs against the red protector on the mount. One of my polys even cut a little into it. How can I avoid this?

Run the string to the outside of the mount

 

[Wes]

Another annoyance is the mounts at 10 and 2 and 4 and 8. I find it hard to position the mount there. Even though I leave the holes there unblocked, as the tensioner pulls the cross it rubs against the red protector on the mount. One of my polys even cut a little into it. How can I avoid this?

@pico,

See below.
I addressed how to plan/navigate around the shoulder supports on 6pt. mount machines.
BTW, don't let the fact that I'm stringing a racquetball racquet throw you off.
It's the same for tennis frames.

Cheers, Wes

 

[pico]

@pico,

See below.
I addressed how to plan/navigate around the shoulder supports on 6pt. mount machines.
BTW, don't let the fact that I'm stringing a racquetball racquet throw you off.
It's the same for tennis frames.

Cheers, Wes

this was very helpful - thanks Wes. I will pay attention more to the grommets close to the mounts and the North / South concept next time I string.

 

[Steve Huff]

I actually prefer to pre-weave (?) the mains. I like putting them in, having a loop just big enough to allow me to tension the strings. If you do this regularly, I don't think you'll find that they are in the way much. Of course, with the crosses, I just string 1-ahead. Whether you prestring the mains or not is mostly just preference. It's not going to hurt either way.

 

[Wes]

I actually prefer to pre-weave (?) the mains. I like putting them in, having a loop just big enough to allow me to tension the strings. If you do this regularly, I don't think you'll find that they are in the way much. Of course, with the crosses, I just string 1-ahead. Whether you prestring the mains or not is mostly just preference. It's not going to hurt either way.

Hey Steve, did you ever happen to see the YT video where Patrick claimed that pre-lacing the mains was actually faster?

I disputed his claim & kind of debunked it with some timed trials.

Now, for the record, my argument wasn't that there might not be a time/place for pre-lacing mains (i.e. busy tournament stringing room, where having excess string on/near the floor is undesirable).
Rather, I was strictly arguing his claim regarding speed (and therefore, by association, efficiency).

Not only did his pre-lacing procedure take longer, it also involved him rotating the turntable an extra half dozen times.

My conclusion was... even when executed with absolutely zero snafus, pre-lacing the mains is not faster, is not more efficient, and invites numerous opportunities for issues/snafus to occur (which, subsequently, would add even more time).

Again, one may choose to pre-lace mains (for whatever reason), but speed/efficiency wouldn't be a sound one.

 

[Steve Huff]

Hey Steve, did you ever happen to see the YT video where Patrick claimed that pre-lacing the mains was actually faster?

I disputed his claim & kind of debunked it with some timed trials.

Now, for the record, my argument wasn't that there might not be a time/place for pre-lacing mains (i.e. busy tournament stringing room, where having excess string on/near the floor is undesirable).
Rather, I was strictly arguing his claim regarding speed (and therefore, by association, efficiency).

Not only did his pre-lacing procedure take longer, it also involved him rotating the turntable an extra half dozen times.

My conclusion was... even when executed with absolutely zero snafus, pre-lacing the mains is not faster, is not more efficient, and invites numerous opportunities for issues/snafus to occur (which, subsequently, would add even more time).

Again, one may choose to pre-lace mains (for whatever reason), but speed/efficiency wouldn't be a sound one.

I didn't see it, but speed isn't the reason I do it. I started doing it when I'd have a few rackets to string, but only had a few minutes before I had to leave or something like that. So, I go down a put the mains in, then do the actual stringing when I returned. Getting it strung is pretty fast after having the strings already there, but I agree, the overall time isn't improved that much if any. The only place I can see it being faster is that you don't have to let go of the end of the string, which you would if you were alternating tensioning the mains. Plus, I'm older now and my back isn't what it used to be, so getting any little bit of time out of the way early is helpful. I don't know what snafus it would cause as I've never had one due to pre-lacing, but I agree that the overall time might be a little longer. I don't pre-lace when I'm stringing natural gut though as I don't want to take any risks at all as far as kinking the string.

 

[Trinity110]

I didn't see it, but speed isn't the reason I do it. I started doing it when I'd have a few rackets to string, but only had a few minutes before I had to leave or something like that. So, I go down a put the mains in, then do the actual stringing when I returned. Getting it strung is pretty fast after having the strings already there, but I agree, the overall time isn't improved that much if any. The only place I can see it being faster is that you don't have to let go of the end of the string, which you would if you were alternating tensioning the mains. Plus, I'm older now and my back isn't what it used to be, so getting any little bit of time out of the way early is helpful. I don't know what snafus it would cause as I've never had one due to pre-lacing, but I agree that the overall time might be a little longer. I don't pre-lace when I'm stringing natural gut though as I don't want to take any risks at all as far as kinking the string.

Steve, glad to see someone else whose back yells at them. Mine is really picky. I can play tennis for 3 hours. I can squat and lift and carry stuff for a fair while. But the worst thing is bending slightly forward. Brushing teeth, shaving, stringing!!! (changing spark plugs used to play hell, while a brake job did not) Daily stretching, core exercises, all keep the demon at bay. But once in a while I land hard on one foot on court and get two weeks of grief.

I pre-weave when I do one-piece, just to get some string out of the way. Stretch and begin.

 

[esgee48]

Me Three! I stretch my back periodically thru out the day. Mine is due to the aging process.

 

[Wes]

@Steve Huff,
@Trinity110,
@esgee48,

Have any of you guys tried using an inversion table?

I wonder if/how much it would help your back?

 

[esgee48]

Considered it, but said no. I just want to stretch the lower back near the sciatica. Takes 20-30 seconds. Teeter Totter takes too long.

 

[Trinity110]

Tried it years ago. Felt great while using it, then felt compressed when back to normal. The best cure is tennis! The endorphins make it all better! There's a next best thing, too. ;-)

Come to think of it, I have a glaucoma risk that says no go to that as well

 

[Steve Huff]

@Steve Huff,
@Trinity110,
@esgee48,

Have any of you guys tried using an inversion table?

I wonder if/how much it would help your back?

Not yet, but have considered it. I go to a chiropractor at least once a week now. Trinity--I also prefer the next best thing. Mine is partially due to a hereditary head-forward posture, plus my career as an RN. Spent many hours bent over a bed.

 

[Trinity110]

There's a coincidence.

Idiopathic scoliosis, also a reverse cervical curve, compounded by many years as an X-ray tech (my "middle" career) requiring many chair to table transfers, one-arm lifts of patients' torsos in intensive care for portable chest x-rays.

(first career as a custom furniture maker was no treat. Long periods of hand planing=tough.

 

[Steve Huff]

There's a coincidence.

Idiopathic scoliosis, also a reverse cervical curve, compounded by many years as an X-ray tech (my "middle" career) requiring many chair to table transfers, one-arm lifts of patients' torsos in intensive care for portable chest x-rays.

(first career as a custom furniture maker was no treat. Long periods of hand planing=tough.

My spine has twisted clockwise a little. He feels he can fix it, and possibly straighten out the neck too.

 

[kkm]

Hey Steve, did you ever happen to see the YT video where Patrick claimed that pre-lacing the mains was actually faster?

I disputed his claim & kind of debunked it with some timed trials.

Now, for the record, my argument wasn't that there might not be a time/place for pre-lacing mains (i.e. busy tournament stringing room, where having excess string on/near the floor is undesirable).
Rather, I was strictly arguing his claim regarding speed (and therefore, by association, efficiency).

Not only did his pre-lacing procedure take longer, it also involved him rotating the turntable an extra half dozen times.

My conclusion was... even when executed with absolutely zero snafus, pre-lacing the mains is not faster, is not more efficient, and invites numerous opportunities for issues/snafus to occur (which, subsequently, would add even more time).

Again, one may choose to pre-lace mains (for whatever reason), but speed/efficiency wouldn't be a sound one.

Who’s Patrick?