Backspin1183
Talk Tennis Guru
His stats on slower courts isn't the most impressive, but he does very well on faster courts, on grass as well on hard courts. Why is that?
What makes Murray such a good fast court player?
- Thread starter Backspin1183
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torpantennis
Legend
Counterpunchers need fast court and balls in order to hurry the opponent. Slower courts such as clay require you to generate your own power, rather than relying on incoming ball speed, to win matches.
Backspin1183
Talk Tennis Guru
My thoughts exactly.
GoaLaSSo
Semi-Pro
He also hits a bit flatter than some of the other guys on tour, which allow his flatter defensive shots to travel through the court a bit quicker. His compact fh and backhand fare better on faster courts than guys with loopier strokes. Murray has great anticipation. He is pretty fast, but I feel like he gets moving toward the ball before the other great defenders in the sport do. On fast courts having killer anticipation is more important than raw foot speed in my opinion.
slice bh compliment
G.O.A.T.
Yeah, hewitt come to mind, too. he did worse than you would expect on clay, and
*spoiler alert*
he won a us open and a wimbledon on fast courts.
*spoiler alert*
he won a us open and a wimbledon on fast courts.
The_Begum_of_Bhopal
Rookie
His return is also better suited for fast courts as he can consistently get the ball deep and low, even against the best servers in the game. By comparison Djokovics return is more suited to slow courts as he has more time to set up more aggressive returns.
Backspin1183
Talk Tennis Guru
Yeah Cinncinati was never a fast court. This explains how Federer was able to win it so many times, no?
slice bh compliment
G.O.A.T.
He can spin the ball and play well on clay. remember when he pushed nole to the brink in madrid?
But, it is true....As goal and monkeyboy said, he does hit a flatter ball than most.
Not as flat as some of the pancakes in the superb pancake thread elsewhere on this forum. But fairly flat.
If you need a break from olympics and tennis, do check out that thread.
But, it is true....As goal and monkeyboy said, he does hit a flatter ball than most.
Not as flat as some of the pancakes in the superb pancake thread elsewhere on this forum. But fairly flat.
If you need a break from olympics and tennis, do check out that thread.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
Counterpunchers need fast courts otherwise their shots are inneffective.
D
Deleted member 307496
Guest
I don't know, look at Hewitt VS Nadal on clay. Murray was not too shabby against Djokovic on clay either.
Lovely_Bone
Rookie
Oh really? Then why did you make the thread. Lol, tryna look smart
Say Chi Sin Lo
G.O.A.T.
Because there aren't many other fast condition players to compare against?
Backspin1183
Talk Tennis Guru
On faster courts one doesn't need to hit the ball hard for a winner or to force an error, which is what you need to do on slower courts.
Backspin1183
Talk Tennis Guru
Why would I answer my own question if I wanted a discussion? I know why he's better on faster courts than on the slower ones.
If you read discussions on this forum you'd think that faster courts help the big hitters and not the ones who defend more. Not true. You don't need to be a big hitter to do well on fast courts.
Noelan
Legend
They played only two matches on clay,Rome 2011 not Madrid as someone said above, Andy won a set, and MC 2008 eat a bagel from Novak.Yeah, not to shabby.
MonkeyBoy
Hall of Fame
Murray was serving for the match against Novak in Rome. That was when Djoker was on his obscene half-a-year win streak. Murray gave Djokovic more trouble in that match than Nadal did in any of his clay matches with Djokovic that year. kthx.
D
Deleted member 307496
Guest
Andy taking a set off 2011 Novak is not too shabby, especially on clay.
Sid_Vicious
G.O.A.T.
I remember back in 2011 and most of 2012, people said that Murray was a better fast court player than Djokovic.
After Djokovic's 2012-2013 indoor season, we can safely say that this claim is completely inaccurate now. I don't think we will ever see Murray sweep the indoor season like Djokovic did.
After Djokovic's 2012-2013 indoor season, we can safely say that this claim is completely inaccurate now. I don't think we will ever see Murray sweep the indoor season like Djokovic did.
Kenshin
Semi-Pro
Today's indoors are quite slow compared to what they had in the 90's. Murray is definitely a better fast court player than Djokovic given his results on grass courts.
Sid_Vicious
G.O.A.T.
No, he isn't. Grass court success doesn't necessarily translate to success on faster surfaces anymore. Nadal and Roddick were both great grasscourt players, but neither of them were good on indoors. Especially Roddick, who was very mediocre on them his entire career.
BTW, Today's grasscourts are also very slow compared to what they had in the 90's so it goes both ways.
Anyways, those indoor courts Djokovic won on were legit. Why do you think Nadal's forehand became so harmless in the final against Djokovic? He was stressed for time in most rallies, he couldn't get much rhythm from the baseline and Djokovic's serve did a lot of damage to him .
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Kenshin
Semi-Pro
I disagree. Then why do Federer who is one of the greatest grass courter has so much success on hard courts???
Sid_Vicious
G.O.A.T.
Um, because tennis players are different? Federer's style of play fits very well with indoor courts. He serves good, he likes to hit aggressive slice backhands, approach the net, hit groundstrokes of a lower ball etc. It's not hard to see why his game fit so well on both surfaces.
Mainad
Bionic Poster
The only surface Murray has ever under-performed on is clay, as we know. Clay apart, he has won multiple titles on all other surfaces pretty much anywhere you care to mention. For instance, he has been in 3 AO finals, 2 USO finals, 3 Miami finals and aren't they all regarded as very slow courts these days? He has also been in 2 Wimbledon, 3 Queens and 2 Cincinnati finals and aren't they are all supposed to be the faster surfaces?
Clay is the only surface that has ever given him any trouble!
Clay is the only surface that has ever given him any trouble!
Sid_Vicious
G.O.A.T.
Well you have to really be specific about this stuff. Nadal has won 2 Wimbledons, 1 Queens club, 1 Cincy, 3 Canada masters, 2 USOs, but he still has a lot of trouble in the indoor season. Even when the court is not indoors (Bejing/Shanghai with open roof) Nadal got dominated by Del Potro and Djokovic.
I would say Murray is one of the best fast court players on tour, but I don't agree that he is above Djokovic anymore.
President
Legend
I do think Murray is a better fast court player than Djokovic, the indoor season has been MASSIVELY slowed down since the super fast days of the 90's. The bounce is still typically pretty low, and Djokovic definitely feels more comfortable indoors than Murray but I think Murray is better on fast outdoor hard courts than Djokovic, which is a totally different dynamic from any indoor court IMO.
Kenshin
Semi-Pro
Um, because tennis players are different? Federer's style of play fits very well with indoor courts. He serves good, he likes to hit aggressive slice backhands, approach the net, hit groundstrokes of a lower ball etc. It's not hard to see why his game fit so well on both surfaces.
Federer's great success on grass and hard courts means even in today, grass court success translates well on hard court. I consider Murray a better faster court player because he has won TWO Cincy's which is a fast surface against Djokovic and his success on grass court. Grass courts has been slow down but not to the degree that many of the posters on TT thinks. It is the style of play that has changed a lot on grass.
Sid_Vicious
G.O.A.T.
Good point. Probably why he lost to Murray in straight sets at Dubai in 2012. And then Murray lost in straights to Federer and said that Federer would win a lot more titles if surfaces were that fast.
Kenshin
Semi-Pro
I agree. Indoor's are now slow to medium hard courts which suits Djokovic's game very well. That is why he is having a great success.
Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
Is there any surface on which you think Djokovic is better than Murray?
Mainad
Bionic Poster
Indoor hard is indeed his weakest surface but I'm never too sure with Nadal whether it's at least partially just end-of-season fatigue with him. He never really seems to do well in the autumn/fall tournaments whether they are inside or outside. I'd be interested to see how he would peform on them if they were held earlier in the season.
Djokovic is second only to Federer as the best all-surface player we have at the moment. Even on his weakest surface, grass, he has still been in 3 grasscourt finals, 2 of them at Wimbledon. So of course he is better than Murray. He's better than everybody in this regards except Federer. Comparisons apart, all I am saying is Murray is about as equally good on the so-called slower surfaces as he is on the faster ones with the sole exception of clay, admittedly a big exception.
Mainad
Bionic Poster
Clay obviously and maybe indoor hardcourt.
Sid_Vicious
G.O.A.T.
Even with Federer ( a great Grass court and Indoor player) , the bolded statement is not true. Federer stormed to the Wimbledon title in 2012, then lost several huge matches the rest of the year on HC.
Federer's success on grass and hard courts is not the general trend for everybody. That is absurd logic. Federer is the only recent Wimbledon winner who has had outrageous success on both grass and HC. 7 Wimbledons, 5 USOs, 5 Cincys, 6 WTFs... that is something that is unique to Federer since he is possibly the greatest ever. Nadal is 2nd best grasscourter of the last decade and he doesn't have nearly as many accolades as Fed on faster surfaces.
Kenshin
Semi-Pro
It is TRUE. What are you watching??? Nadal who is a great grass court player is having a great success on hard courts. Of course not to a degree like Federer but winning many hard court tournaments and reaching final after final.
Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
Who knows if Nadal would be better on Indoor at the beginning of the season but even if fatigue is the reason he underperforms that's his own fault for playing like a maniac during the clay season. I mean would his world end if he actually skipped Barcelona one year? You gotta take the rough with the smooth and unfortunately for Nadal the rough often tends to occur during September to November. C'est la vie pour lui.
Sid_Vicious
G.O.A.T.
Wimbledon is also slow now. Its funny how Djokovic's success on indoor is attributed to slow courts, but Murray wins Wimbledon and he has apparently proved that he is an amazing fast court player.
Ridiculous. Its even more ridiculous when you consider that 2 years ago, Murray was considered the finer fast court player because of him having more indoor titles and records than Djokovic. Funny how the indoor courts have only become "slow to medium" now that Djokovic is close to or has surpassed Murray on them.
:lol:
Kenshin
Semi-Pro
From the way I see it, Nadal strugges on indoor because he can't use his serve effectively on that surface. He is a good server but not a great server. You need to serve well to win on indoors. His serve gets broken a lot and the low bounce doesn't help his game either.
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Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
Very well said. I wonder sometimes if there's a single person on this forum that actually thinks Djokovic can play on fast courts. I can't help but wonder if not winning Cincinatti over the years has led to this conclusion but surely reaching 4 finals there must stand for something?
Kenshin
Semi-Pro
Djokovic can of couse play well on fast hard courts. He is one of the best hard court player ever. However it is a fact that he prefers slow to medium hard courts compare to medium to fast hard courts. Nothing wrong with that. It is the way his game is built.
Yes, you two sum it up very well! Am I imaging things or is this the quality of this forum getting better the last couple of weeks? (with the exception of the post-AO threads..)
Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
Kudos to you for recognising this but try telling it to other Nadal fans and it's "oh he's always tired at the end of the year". Well don't play so many fkn clay tournaments earlier in the year and you'll be fine- it ain't exactly rocket science! And it's funny how Nole, Fed and the other top guys are never tired at the end of the season, only Nadal can be. Grrrrrrrr..........
Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
Thanks, I agree with you but I'd still really love for Nole to win Cinci just to silence his detractors who say he can't play on fast courts. Completing the Masters slam would also be a nice bonus!
Sid_Vicious
G.O.A.T.
You don't think Andy prefers those too? Why else do you think he would the speed of the court after losing to Federer in Dubai 2012? I can't see Murray enjoying his time on slick carpet courts they used for WTF in 2005, which David Nalbandian enjoyed more than the other 7 players.
Kenshin
Semi-Pro
Thanks, I agree with you but I'd still really love for Nole to win Cinci just to silence his detractors who say he can't play on fast courts. Completing the Masters slam would also be a nice bonus!
He can definitely do it. It will be amazing to see Djokovic win Cincy which is the only masters 1000 tournament he haven't won yet and win French to complete Career slam. That will make him one of the legends of the sport.
President
Legend
Of course. Djokovic is much better on clay than Murray and is better on slow hard courts. I think they are pretty even on medium hard courts, and Murray has an edge on medium-fast courts (there are no true fast hard courts these days). This is all outdoors, by the way. Djokovic has clearly become more comfortable indoors than Murray.
Kenshin
Semi-Pro
Thats exactly the way I see them. Nadal and Djokovic can generate a lot of power form forehands and backhands so they are alike in that department. Murray has one of the best backhands in game today but his forehand is not that good to generate power like Nadal and Djokovic. So his game is best suited to counter punch. That is why he excels on fast courts and struggles on a court like clay. Over the years, he has shown he can play well on slow to medium hard courts too.
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GoaLaSSo
Semi-Pro
batz
G.O.A.T.
To be honest Sid, no. I think Murray generally prefers faster surfaces and Novak generally prefers slower ones - although there will be exceptions to this.
Murray is 4-0 versus Nole in US Open Series events and 2-0 versus Nole on grass. For me, that says a lot about which kind of surface Andy is more comfortable on in comparison to Nole.
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