Recently i've been tinkering with my serve and i was wondering whose was the best to copy. I've heard Roddicks was bad to copy, so I was thinking of using Federer's but i've heard thats also bad to copy as well. Does anyone here have any suggestions. I've heard of using Sampras's but i don't have a video of it. If anyone could provide that, that would greatly benefit me. thanks in advance.
Whose serve is the best to copy?
- Thread starter nkhera1
- Start date
Marius_Hancu
Talk Tennis Guru
yea, a lot of peole are hard on those that copy. So what, if copying helps, so be it, just ignore them. So follow mr. link's (look above) link to get your clips and get a feel of what works for you. To me sampras and federer's serve motion is really similar to the classic motion taught everywhere (i might be wrong). But as far as Roddick's motion, i got the sense from this fourm that most of those who've tried it like it. My friend and I have also played around with this motion and found our serves with more pace.
B
Baseline Basher
Guest
Roddick's motion looks weird to me. I've never really studied it, but it looks like he pooches his butt out, steps forward a little, and rips it. Federer's looks smoother, and Hewitt's is smooth too. If all else fails, copy mine. I'll let you.
Marius_Hancu
Talk Tennis Guru
nkhera1 said:
Roddick's imposes more stress on your shoulder, but it certainly can be effective. Sampras's and Federer's accumulate the kynetic energy required for the impact in a more gradual way, but perhaps require more coordination over a larger space.
Bungalo Bill
G.O.A.T.
Marius_Hancu said:
I dont know about this. I believe people get caught up in his tossing motion and stance. His hitting motion is very quick and he uses his toss height and shoulder rotation along with his shoulder and chest muscles very efficiently and effectively.
Marius_Hancu
Talk Tennis Guru
Well, I think Roddick's inspired to some extent from Roscoe's. Others might know better.Jet Rink said:
joe sch
Legend
I also agree. Roddicks motion is very efficient and less prone to error since his toss is not much higher than his max reach and his swing has very little waisted motion which results in errors. You dont see much body and truck rotation like some of the other players. Andy motion is very much like Roscoe Tanners who had one of the best serves in the 1970s. I dont think this motion will result in injuries for many of these same reasons.Bungalo Bill said:
thatonedue
New User
sampras has the best motion in the game............wait............yep he does (or did).
I concede that Roddick's motion is simple and probably easier to emulate than alot of others. I'd just be a little concerned that w/o guidance, someone trying to copy it may shortcut the very good core elements in Roddick's serve while copying the idiosyncracies and end up muscling it. I'm old school, (probably wrongly), but my eye is drawn to Federer's as the one to copy even over Sampras. Sampras upper body turn away from the net is not easy for most. To me Federer's appears, to the naked eye, as relaxed as I've always encouraged my students to be in their motions and all the core elements are there. I also favor a platform over pinpoint stance for balance concerns. But either can work. Its JMH preference though. Try 'em and stick w/ what works for you. But make sure you can hit spots w/ the 4 basic serves, w/o tipping them.
Jet,
I agree with you that Roscoe Tanner's was one of the most SIMPLE service motions ever, but EASY to emulate, man, not for me, well not with any kind of power anyway. As juniors my friends and I would mimic all the popular servers of the day, Newk, Smith, Ashe, Stockton, etc. We could all do good imitations of them with some pop. But Tanner, man, we found it hard to squeeze that motion under that low toss. I remember being in awe of how hard he could hit it. And I remember our pros telling us that he was one of a kind, timing wise, and advising us not to try to adopt his motion as our own.
Jet,
I agree with you that Roscoe Tanner's was one of the most SIMPLE service motions ever, but EASY to emulate, man, not for me, well not with any kind of power anyway. As juniors my friends and I would mimic all the popular servers of the day, Newk, Smith, Ashe, Stockton, etc. We could all do good imitations of them with some pop. But Tanner, man, we found it hard to squeeze that motion under that low toss. I remember being in awe of how hard he could hit it. And I remember our pros telling us that he was one of a kind, timing wise, and advising us not to try to adopt his motion as our own.
Bungalo Bill
G.O.A.T.
Marius_Hancu said:
Excatly, the height of the toss and the poweful forward motion is definetly a Roscoe Tanner "kind of" motion.
However, Roscoe mastered an arcing toss (which only a few recognize as the key to his serve) that helped him meet the ball as it was suspended in air while increasing his kinetic energy into it.
It was Roscoe's toss that helped him generate blistering serves in his day. I can only imagine how fast they would have been using Roddicks racquet!
Roddicks motion is very similar with the lower toss. This is something that Vic Braden has always sworn by and Roscoe Tanner was his model of efficiency.
aj_m2009
Professional
I have a motion similar to Capriati's I think. It is pretty simple and it is pretty easy to hit it hard(for me anyway). And to Marius, Roddick said that he just hits it like that becuase one time he was mad and he just tried to hit it as hard as he could and it went in(I am pretty sure that is what he said anyway). He didn't say anything about it being inspired by anyone(as far as I remember).
thatonedue said:
Trying to imitate the Sampras motion is a recipe for disaster for the average player. Sampras uses all the techniques that make the "classic" motion effective, and exaggerates them beyond the abilities of common mortals.
Where most try to get a little sideways in their starting positions, and more radical (McEnroe) style servers get the whole way there, Sampras actually goes beyond this and almost turns away from the net to start.
Where most try to toss/lean into the court, and the more amazingly athletic incorporate a lean and explosion up from the court that almost launches them forward, Sampras's lean and explosion was at a nearly 45 degree angle...at full extension...and airborne. Most people try that, and they won't just stumble, they'll fall flat on their faces.
Where most try to incorporate a shoulder turn, and a few of the best REALLY turn their torsos before unwinding, Sampras practically twists himself till he faces the other direction. Unless you're a pro-level athlete with yoga training to boot, you're asking for a ruptured disk and chronic lower back trouble if you emulate him.
Sampras was one of tennis's most finely tuned athletes EVER. His raw athleticism, and more importantly his FLEXIBILITY put him in the top percent of the top percent. His body was made of rubber. His service motion, if executed in an exact copy by the average 4.5 level player, would have him in traction.
The ELEMENTS of Pete's serve are worth studying and emulating. But if you try to re-produce his results, you're either going to fall far short of them and wind up with an exaggerated but ineffective serve, or you're going to hurt yourself. Unless you're willing to spend your days on the physical training aspect of developing an elite pro-athlete body, a Sampras-style serve remains out of the reach of mere mortals.
Something like Federer's, which incorporates the same elements, but without the rubber-bodied exaggerations, is much more practical for everyone without physical abilities in the 99.99th percentile. Even something like Roddick's, which is far less mainstream, is still not as physically demanding to reproduce.
Bungalo Bill
G.O.A.T.
benasp said:
And really learn to totally relax the shoulder area. Let it "roll" or stretch forward as you hit through the ball. Just let it relax through the ball.
I have been reworking my serve and at 46 relaxing the shoulder the best I can. Have been able to realize some extra juice in the serve.
TheGreatBernie
Rookie
Do you guys think that if a player of Roddick's height could emulate his service motion EXACTLY that said player would generate the same amount of power as Roddick?
Bungalo Bill
G.O.A.T.
TheGreatBernie said:
Well I think so if it was emulated EXACTLY. But exactly means same racquet head speed and everything else that makes up Roddicks serve.
If you said if someone emulated his serve from a form perspective can generate his power and ball speed, that would depend on whether the person having the exact form could get the racquet up to speed as fast as Roddick does.
Another player with the same height would not be able to copy it.
A lot of it is Roddick's natural, physical one-in-a-million body. He also has quick hands (you can take this as *******ed or not, your choice) and gets the racquet out from behind him faster than anyone else on tour, resulting in the most racquet head speed.
Just as BB said, it just depends on if the player could whip out the racquet as fast as Roddick can.
For serves, Sampras' would obviously be something to emulate. Unfortunately, it is near impossible because there are so many tiny and quirky essential elements that were a result of what only his body and strengths could do. Same thing with Roddick.
A lot of it is Roddick's natural, physical one-in-a-million body. He also has quick hands (you can take this as *******ed or not, your choice) and gets the racquet out from behind him faster than anyone else on tour, resulting in the most racquet head speed.
Just as BB said, it just depends on if the player could whip out the racquet as fast as Roddick can.
For serves, Sampras' would obviously be something to emulate. Unfortunately, it is near impossible because there are so many tiny and quirky essential elements that were a result of what only his body and strengths could do. Same thing with Roddick.
Kaptain Karl
Hall Of Fame
... To answer further, it also depends on if the player would have the same musculature connective tissue makeup as Andy.TheGreatBernie said:
(To use "lay terms" if you were the same height & weight, but didn't have the same level of "looseness" or "tightness" in the knees, hips, back, shoulders and elbow, you'd probably still not be able to replicate Andy's speed and power.)
A player couldn't do much better than having a serve like Stan Smith's, Federer's, Ljubicic's and J. Johansson's.
Back in the 70's I used to mimic lots of the Pro serves. Oddly, I could copy Tanner's very well ... but I couldn't get Mac's at all. (Then my own motion would be goofed-up for a day or two....)
- KK
TennsDog
Hall of Fame
I cannot think of any better serve to look to mimic than Sampras. It has power, spin, precision, consitancy, fluidity, and on and on... I actually copied his serve with outstanding results. My serve now has more spin, power, etc. than ever before. I did it just by looking at his serve over and over from multiple angles and studying each facet of it, including the timing of every movement relative to every other. I also have access to video of myself, which really helps a lot.
Here are two links:
http://www. ee. surrey .ac .uk /Personal/Q.Luo/tennis/sampras01.swf
http://www. ee. surrey .ac .uk /Personal/Q.Luo/tennis/sampras02.swf
Here are two links:
http://www. ee. surrey .ac .uk /Personal/Q.Luo/tennis/sampras01.swf
http://www. ee. surrey .ac .uk /Personal/Q.Luo/tennis/sampras02.swf
FedererUberAlles
Professional
Sampras's little things make it hard to copy his serve. A really basic serve (e.g. Roger's, and other classic serves) are easier to emulate due to less mannerisms.
Tennis Psycho
Rookie
I copied Roddicks serve. IMO it is hte best!! I am not very strong but when I use his technique, I can get very fsat serves.
FedererUberAlles
Professional
Tennis Psycho said:
You can't have a very high percentage.
takeuchi
Rookie
i also was using roddicks serve before, but when i became tired i think i ended up arming it a lot and my service games were hit or miss. It helped me learn how to generate a lot of pace though. Now i just use a federer like windup and i think i can still get the same amount of pace.
Kana Himezaki
Semi-Pro
Rickson said:
Some people say (might be a myth) that hitting it just on it's way down provides the most velocity. If you really want perfect tosses, go Jack Kramer.
I believe Roscoe Tanner also had an extremely precise toss hit right on the way down.According to other people (I lost the quote somewhere, Kramer said it himself though) that he'd put a tissue or something on the court two feet inside, and toss the ball 100 times in a row. He hit the tissue 100 times.
That's just insane.
Kaptain Karl
Hall Of Fame
IMO, most players do not practice their toss enough. I am known for catching more tosses than anyone. (Maybe three times a set.)
I am amazed at all the people who seem to have a "What the heck?" attitude and swing away at terrible tosses. Nuts!
- KK
I am amazed at all the people who seem to have a "What the heck?" attitude and swing away at terrible tosses. Nuts!
- KK
joe sch
Legend
Jack Kramer was probably the best server & volley ever so he would be ideal to copy if you could find some video of him. If you do, please let me know where ? It is possible to find some video of Pancho Gonzalez, who was also one of the best servers ever. Your best bet is to copy Pete Sampras. I also like Michael Stich service motion, very smooth, effortless and powerful ! Many experts do believe the toss should only be as high as your swing, thus hitting it at the top of your toss like Tanner & Goran, but I believe its easier to time when tossed slightly higher than your reach.Kana Himezaki said:Some people say (might be a myth) that hitting it just on it's way down provides the most velocity. If you really want perfect tosses, go Jack Kramer.
According to other people (I lost the quote somewhere, Kramer said it himself though) that he'd put a tissue or something on the court two feet inside, and toss the ball 100 times in a row. He hit the tissue 100 times.
That's just insane.
Kana Himezaki
Semi-Pro
Copying Sampras is NOT ideal, as even with his classical motion he had so many quirks and natural finesse that allowed him to achieve his serve. A normal club player is not going to benefit much from copying him.
I believe it IS easier to time when tossed slightly higher, and have heard that some players found a slight, barely noticeable increase in velocity. I don't know if it's true.
On tennisplayer.net, there are a couple clips of Jack Kramer and Pancho Gonzalez -of course a pretty small amount, but you can find it nowhere else from how much I've been searching. They're the only ones I know of in existence.
I think Tanner hit it right when it started to go down, or maybe right at the top. Whatever it was, he had an EXTREMELY efficient serve -minimal effort, maximum results. His toss was a large part of that.
I believe it IS easier to time when tossed slightly higher, and have heard that some players found a slight, barely noticeable increase in velocity. I don't know if it's true.
On tennisplayer.net, there are a couple clips of Jack Kramer and Pancho Gonzalez -of course a pretty small amount, but you can find it nowhere else from how much I've been searching. They're the only ones I know of in existence.
I think Tanner hit it right when it started to go down, or maybe right at the top. Whatever it was, he had an EXTREMELY efficient serve -minimal effort, maximum results. His toss was a large part of that.
oldguysrule
Semi-Pro
Kana Himezaki said:
Finesse is not the word that comes to mind when I think of Sampras' serve. I agree he had a classical motion and I wonder why that would not be a good motion to emulate. You may have studied his serve more than I, (since I have mainly just observed it), so what are the quirks that you are referring to?
Exile
Professional
Sampras had a good kinetic chain, copying him would do nothing but benifit.
That's what I have done, my only problem is tossing the ball, but if I can remember to toss higher I usually get a huge flat, or huge kick from it.
The reason I wouldn't recommend roddick's serve is because of all of HIS little quirks.
It's like one big jerking motion that just happens to generate a big serve.
Go with Sampras or Federer.
That's what I have done, my only problem is tossing the ball, but if I can remember to toss higher I usually get a huge flat, or huge kick from it.
The reason I wouldn't recommend roddick's serve is because of all of HIS little quirks.
It's like one big jerking motion that just happens to generate a big serve.
Go with Sampras or Federer.
TennsDog
Hall of Fame
I can understand why Kana suggests against copying Sampras. When I first started, I thought I was doing pretty good. When I saw video of myself, I was amazed how different I looked. It truely is more amazing to watch Sampras hit a serve like that after trying to emulate it precisely. He gets a lot of shoulder rotation, the angles of each of his feet and knees, the timing of each knee bend, the timing of the knee bend with relation to the ball toss, the timing of the takeback (it slows down at the bottom), the tension in his wrist, his weight transfer...These are a lot, but not all, of Sampras's service 'quirks' that make it so tough to accurately copy. One thing I have been working on is actually tossing the ball before any knee bend, which is rather tough to start doing after being in the groove I have been with tossing and bending simultaneously. I think it is worth everyone's time, everyone who is looking to emulate a serve, anyway, to try to copy Sampras's. However, not everyone will be able to copy it with good results, but if you can, go with it.
FedererUberAlles
Professional
Don't even try copying Sampras's serve. His timing was very well perfected and it was just right for him. Go with a simpler one like Federer.
hyperwarrior
Professional
Here's a glimpse of Sampras serve: http://www.ee.surrey.ac.uk/Personal/Q.Luo/tennis/sampras02.swf
I think most people can emulate his service motion. The accuracy and the speed of his serve, I don't think people can hit it consistantly like he does.
I think most people can emulate his service motion. The accuracy and the speed of his serve, I don't think people can hit it consistantly like he does.
Tennis Psycho
Rookie
FedererUberAlles said:
I actually do have a very high percentage. Maybe 1 time in a mtch I double fault but that is it. Many times I make my 1st serves. Andy's serve is very eefective in tennis.
