Why do people sandbag?

[MoxMonkey]

This is something that has confused and intrigued me since I started playing tennis.

I was looking at a thread here and there were people talking about 3.5 nationals and talking about former college players just thrashing everyone. Why do this? On the outside if it it feels like the scandals where some 15 year old will dominate the little league World Series. It’s just weird.

Or there was a man that plays in 55+ 3.0 league who was telling me that he had to play against this guy who made it to nationals the year before, got bumped up and then successfully appealed back down to 3.0 again and proceeded to go undefeated the next season.

I mean wow. Congratulations on getting yourself held back a grade so you can continue to beat up on the smaller kids.

Is it as simple as some people have a need to win so badly that they will fix their competition?

or is it so common that it’s like one of those ‘only the best cheaters win’ type deals?

or at the top level(nationals) is the dance about ratings manipulation the real game?

I just started playing league play last year, and although some guys I’ve seen might be somewhat above their level, I’ve never personally seen anything that appeared blatantly flagrant.

 

[Cashman]

Some people want to win

some people want to play with their friends

some people prefer playing tennis in a lower pressure environment

but realistically I don’t see many sandbaggers where I live (maybe US is different)

fwiw I see a lot of players accused of sandbagging when they are genuinely not good enough to play at the next level

often you see this with former high level players once they hit middle age and get really time-poor

they still look really good and can blow your average erratic weekend hacker off the court, but because they’re not practicing enough their game is like tissue paper - put them up against someone who can get their balls back and it crumples pretty quickly

so they end up bouncing between players they flog, and players who flog them - rarely playing a competitive match

 

[FuzzyYellowBalls]

Brainstorm session:
1. No college tennis experience of any significance.
2. Just a small town girl....living in a lonely worrrrld. People from small towns who move to the big city. Helps them make a name for themselves and they have a lack of peer pressure to make fun of them for playing below their level.
3. Horny and like to get side action at sectionals and nationals, or try
4. A decent group I know moved from another country to work here, seek the US tennis glory to report back home.
5. Winning to some is literally more important than improving or challenging themselves. I've gotten down to the summation of this mindset by pointing out in a discussion that someone could also win by entering under 10 year old tournaments, they almost said yes they would do that if they could before they realized it would make them seem crazy if they said it out loud.
6. What is easier to do, lose train and improve at your real level for 5 years to get a trophy or spend 1 year losing on purpose to unleash your fury on lesser players?
7. A captain pushes them to do it, lots of 18-24 year olds just go with it, some people are followers and will want to please people.
8. Not big social lives, I don't know any that are really living it up, have challenging time consuming careers, are very very rich, basically if your life is pretty boring, sandbagging at tennis can seem like a really fun thing to do.
9. They live near or play at a tennis facility that has a tradition of sandbagging so there is a social pressure to sandbag, not the correct social pressure to try and get better and move up in level.

The good news is, this is literally 2-3% of the entire USTA tennis playing community.

 

[Jack the Hack]

Cheating and sandbagging is a human psychological issue that goes way beyond tennis. It's happens in just about every recreational sport. For example, I've directly seen it in golf, where people have deliberately tanked their handicap in order to win events and tournaments in brackets lower than their true ability. Even in the Little League World Series, there was a team a few years ago that whose star player was a "kid" that was older than allowed, but his parents had a faked a birth certificate for him to play.

On one hand, I think people do it because it's about the mentality of winning at all cost. Even if it's just for a meaningless plastic trophy.

On another hand, I think some people can't handle the pain and ego blow of losing. They want so bad for others to hold them in high esteem, that losing is a personal affront.

 

[Cashman]

3. Horny and like to get side action at sectionals and nationals, or try

lol are you serious

Men’s 40 & Over 4.5 Gay Cruising Week, that’s hilarious

 

[dsp9753]

Not that there aren't sandbaggers... but I see the opposite more often. People accusing each others of sandbagging when there are no such shenanigans going on. Lose a match? Blame that the other person is sandbagging etc etc. Or even better, when someone wins a match but says the other person was a sandbagger. I have seen men/women who will win a match at 4.0 (random level) and say their opponents was a sandbagger (4.5 or 5.0) despite the fact that they won.

 

[Jack the Hack]

Not that there aren't sandbaggers... but I see the opposite more often. People accusing each others of sandbagging when there are no such shenanigans going on. Lose a match? Blame that the other person is sandbagging etc etc. Or even better, when someone wins a match but says the other person was a sandbagger. I have seen men/women who will win a match at 4.0 (random level) and say their opponents was a sandbagger (4.5 or 5.0) despite the fact that they won.

For sure. "They can't possibly beat me unless they were cheating!"

Or the true opposite of sandbagging, which is rating yourself way, way better than you are. Like a 3.5 self rating as a 5.5. I've seen that, especially around older rich and famous folks that have completely overestimated their athletic ability and skills.

Both are grounded in the deep desire to look good to others (when in reality, everyone can see through it).

 

[Pass750]

The lengths that people go to by throwing games and matches for whole seasons by accounts here is sad. People and the captains need to get a life. I play every point like it’s my last, can’t imagine throwing a game, let alone a match. People should be real proud of themselves gaming the system and beating up on lesser players.

 

[5sets]

This is something that has confused and intrigued me since I started playing tennis.

I was looking at a thread here

This is something that has confused and intrigued me since I started playing tennis.

I was looking at a thread here and there were people talking about 3.5 nationals and talking about former college players just thrashing everyone. Why do this? On the outside if it it feels like the scandals where some 15 year old will dominate the little league World Series. It’s just weird.

Or there was a man that plays in 55+ 3.0 league who was telling me that he had to play against this guy who made it to nationals the year before, got bumped up and then successfully appealed back down to 3.0 again and proceeded to go undefeated the next season.

I mean wow. Congratulations on getting yourself held back a grade so you can continue to beat up on the smaller kids.

Is it as simple as some people have a need to win so badly that they will fix their competition?

or is it so common that it’s like one of those ‘only the best cheaters win’ type deals?

or at the top level(nationals) is the dance about ratings manipulation the real game?

I just started playing league play last year, and although some guys I’ve seen might be somewhat above their level, I’ve never personally seen anything that appeared blatantly flagrant.

Or there was a man that plays in 55+ 3.0 league who was telling me that he had to play against this guy who made it to nationals the year before, got bumped up and then successfully appealed back down to 3.0 again and proceeded to go undefeated the next season.

I mean wow. Congratulations on getting yourself held back a grade so you can continue to beat up on the smaller kids.

Is it as simple as some people have a need to win so badly that they will fix their competition?

or is it so common that it’s like one of those ‘only the best cheaters win’ type deals?

or at the top level(nationals) is the dance about ratings manipulation the real game?

I just started playing league play last year, and although some guys I’ve seen might be somewhat above their level, I’ve never personally seen anything that appeared blatantly flagrant.

https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/ind...really-just-the-best-players-at-level.641770/

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

People and the captains need to get a life.

Maybe for them, it is their life.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

The good news is, this is literally 2-3% of the entire USTA tennis playing community.

I can't think of any sandbaggers in the last few years in my 4.5 Mens/9.0 MXDs experience. Of course, Sectionals and Nationals are a different story.

 

[FuzzyYellowBalls]

lol are you serious

Men’s 40 & Over 4.5 Gay Cruising Week, that’s hilarious

You'd be surprised, or maybe not, here in the states most USTA sectionals and nationals are co-ed events as in women's and men's teams are playing on the same weekend at some away fromhome location and the women get drrrrrunnnnnnnnnnnnnk.

 

[5sets]

I’d like to think there are some so called sandbaggers who in their adult lives honestly don’t have the time to put into practice to get some wins at their real level. Hypothetically Debra, who played college ball ten years ago, but now has a career, husband and two kids loves to hand out breadsticks at 4.0 because she can only play twice a week, whereas in warmup up she has great strokes and could easily play at 4.5 but her ego can’t take the Ls. As I’ve stated in the other thread I just linked, some would rather be the Federer at one level opposed to the Donald Young of their real level.

 

[Cashman]

I’d like to think there are some so called sandbaggers who in their adult lives honestly don’t have the time to put into practice to get some wins at their real level.

There are guys in my league who ping pong between divisions every year because of this

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

I’d like to think there are some so called sandbaggers who in their adult lives honestly don’t have the time to put into practice to get some wins at their real level. Hypothetically Debra, who played college ball ten years ago, but now has a career, husband and two kids loves to hand out breadsticks at 4.0 because she can only play twice a week, whereas in warmup up she has great strokes and could easily play at 4.5 but her ego can’t take the Ls. As I’ve stated in the other thread I just linked, some would rather be the Federer at one level opposed to the Donald Young of their real level.

But does it matter to the opponent who just got whooped why the opponent sandbagged? This upsets a lot of people and I don't think they'll be less upset or even fine if the reason for sandbagging changes.

 

[5sets]

But does it matter to the opponent who just got whooped why the opponent sandbagged? This upsets a lot of people and I don't think they'll be less upset or even fine if the reason for sandbagging changes.

No, of course not;
I’m just trying to play devil’s advocate. I mean even top ATP players go back and play Challengers after injury or if they are in a slump.., i.e. Andre Agassi, Dominic Thiem, Stan Wrawinka…. so yeah, sandbaggers are trash…but there are overlaps between NTRP levels even if not on paper.

 

[MoxMonkey]

But does it matter to the opponent who just got whooped why the opponent sandbagged? This upsets a lot of people and I don't think they'll be less upset or even fine if the reason for sandbagging changes.

this is kind of my thought on this too. You take your enjoyment of victory off of someone else while by omission or commission lying about your weight class.

maybe if your a known sandbagger they could put your photo up at the local area clubs, kinda like they used to do at grocery stores to people who wrote bad checks.

 

[5sets]

this is kind of my thought on this too. You take your enjoyment of victory off of someone else while by omission or commission lying about your weight class.

maybe if your a known sandbagger they could put your photo up at the local area clubs, kinda like they used to do at grocery stores to people who wrote bad checks.

Lol, in my region don’t worry you won’t need a flyer with a photo. There’s usually one whole team stacked with sandbaggers. They are led by one captain hell bent on getting to nationals who’s been a prominent USTA captain for years and is recruiting players just getting out of college or who don’t have a USTA history who can self rate. I’ve literally seen a person from their team advance two NTRP levels in three years. That’s not really possible. They obviously weren’t the level they claimed when they started. But it’s cool. I mean to each their own. If you want to show up in your college warmups and beat up on some 50 year old 4.0 guys, half at it Hoss. That’s gotta be some nice action from the intoxicated bored wives at Nationals, lol.

 

[travlerajm]

I just heard today on the radio that the guys who got busted for cheating at a walleye fishing tournament, for stuffing lead weights into the fish, are getting charged with felonies.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

No, of course not;
I’m just trying to play devil’s advocate. I mean even top ATP players go back and play Challengers after injury or if they are in a slump.., i.e. Andre Agassi, Dominic Thiem, Stan Wrawinka…. so yeah, sandbaggers are trash…but there are overlaps between NTRP levels even if not on paper.

I see your point. With pros, I'm assuming once they recover and start crushing opponents they will move back to the main draw and not remain in Challengers whereas the sandbaggers will try and find a way back down to the lower level so they can rinse and repeat.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

I just heard today on the radio that the guys who got busted for cheating at a walleye fishing tournament, for stuffing lead weights into the fish, are getting charged with felonies.

Humorist Carl Hiaasen wrote a book about competitive [trout?] fishing.

 

[Radicalized]

I just heard today on the radio that the guys who got busted for cheating at a walleye fishing tournament, for stuffing lead weights into the fish, are getting charged with felonies.

That's because some guys at the weigh-in had the "guts" to point out the winning fish was smaller than others. And then they cut it open. Same should go for tennis, minus the literal gutting, of course. When you're too good too many times...

 

[travlerajm]

Humorist Carl Hiaasen wrote a book about competitive [trout?] fishing.

The walleye tourney cheaters got caught red-handed by the tournament director on video with all of the other angler competitors present. Had it not been for social media and the presence of cell phone video, it’s reportedly likely that the cheaters would not have escaped the scene alive, as they would have been lynched by the enraged cheated competitors.

 

[travlerajm]

That's because some guys at the weigh-in had the "guts" to point out the winning fish was smaller than others. And then they cut it open. Same should go for tennis, minus the literal gutting, of course. When you're too good too many times...

I just watched some of the YouTube footage of the weigh-in. You can hear guys yelling ‘no F-ing way that’s 8 lbs’ (when it looked like a 5.5 pounder).

Ironically, the cheaters, who added a total 8 lbs to their 5-fish haul, had heavy enough fish without the weights to win the event. Second place was a total of 16.9 lbs (for 5 fish). The cheaters produced a winning weight of 33 pounds, which triggered suspicions given the fish were only slightly larger than the competitors’ fish (not double).

 

[Radicalized]

I just watched some of the YouTube footage of the weigh-in. You can hear guys yelling ‘no F-ing way that’s 8 lbs’ (when it looked like a 5.5 pounder).

Ironically, the cheaters, who added a total 8 lbs to their 5-fish haul, had heavy enough fish without the weights to win the event. Second place was a total of 16.9 lbs (for 5 fish). The cheaters produced a winning weight of 33 pounds, which triggered suspicions given the fish were only slightly larger than the competitors’ fish (not double).

I had only read original accounts of it. I'll check out whatever vid there is. I didn't think about it until your post.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

The walleye tourney cheaters got caught red-handed by the tournament director on video with all of the other angler competitors present. Had it not been for social media and the presence of cell phone video, it’s reportedly likely that the cheaters would not have escaped the scene alive, as they would have been lynched by the enraged cheated competitors.

How much $ and prestige was at stake?

 

[travlerajm]

How much $ and prestige was at stake?

The tourney where they got caught was about $30,000 prize. But it’s estimated that they had already cheated their way to $300,000 in winnings.

 

[DeeeFoo]

I can think of several possible reasons off the top off my head

1. They like winning or showing off.
2. They feel like there isn't a big enough pool of people to play with at the higher levels, so they purposely stay at a lower rating. I think this is true to some extent, but it also creates this negative cycle of there not being enough people at the higher levels because everyone's playing down.
3. The USTA algorithm is being janky and isn't bumping them up, even though they want to be bumped up.
4. They want to stay with their friends/teammates at the lower rating.
5. They are experienced players, but are new to the USTA rating system and unintentionally under-rated themselves due to not knowing how the ratings work. This will usually correct itself over time. I've met some players like this.

 

[5sets]

Wow just watched that Walleye scandal on YouTube. “We got weights in fish!” Lol, that’s crazy. Another vid showed the police seizing a boat they had won in a prior tourney. What POSs.

 

[optic yellow]

I just heard today on the radio that the guys who got busted for cheating at a walleye fishing tournament, for stuffing lead weights into the fish, are getting charged with felonies.

I just watched some of the YouTube footage of the weigh-in. You can hear guys yelling ‘no F-ing way that’s 8 lbs’ (when it looked like a 5.5 pounder).

Ironically, the cheaters, who added a total 8 lbs to their 5-fish haul, had heavy enough fish without the weights to win the event. Second place was a total of 16.9 lbs (for 5 fish). The cheaters produced a winning weight of 33 pounds, which triggered suspicions given the fish were only slightly larger than the competitors’ fish (not double).

Insanely dumb.

 

[5sets]

When watching the video it’s amazing the one cheater who was there wasn’t beaten to a pulp. And we never even see his partner. Lol, did he slip out when he realized they wouldn’t get away with it? That was a plethora of F bombs from the angry mob lol.

 

[ChaelAZ]

Recreational tennis glory is forever!

Sadly, some people really do place high enough value being a 3.5 national champion, they will sandbag to try and win it.

 

[travlerajm]

Recreational tennis glory is forever!

Sadly, some people really do place high enough value being a 3.5 national champion, they will sandbag to try and win it.

Some day I will post my entertaining story about the time I decided to enter a national ntrp tournament with $10,000 first place prize, $5000 second place, $2500 third, etc.

 

[PK6]

The USTA is a joke!!! Those who sandbag need to be banned forever from USTA. But USTA is to stupid to do anything about this. That’s why it joke **** organization. Anyone who’s played high school or college tennis should not be 3.0s!!!

 

[CHtennis]

I believe I would be considered a sandbagger at times in my life. I have won a national championship at 4.5 in 2018 and have generally had an excellent record at 4.5. I have been a 5.0 since winning that and have done fine. I dont seek out losing so I can be at a lower level, I just dont care as much and thus I dont prepare as well for regular season matches as I do about playoff matches. That has led to me generally getting rated down and then back up after doing well in the playoffs. I have been having fun playing at 5.0 but do prefer being at the top of a level rather than at the bottom of one.

It is an odd thing the way it has set up in my life, I have had a goal of winning a USTA team championship since I graduated college and made it to nationals on my dads 4.5 team. To win a national championship you almost by definition need to have a team that is too good for that level. It is possible that you could just have 8 players that are at the very top of the level and not above but I believe most teams that have won have to have higher than level ratings and sometimes significantly so and I believe @schmke shares that number at times.
I believe that the structure of the USTA leagues has been one of the best things for recreational tennis but then there will end up with problems like sandbagging and self rating and what not.

 

[MoxMonkey]

I wonder how a sandbagger feels when he gets stomped by an even bigger sandbagger. , in a match he really wanted to win.

It might be entertaining to hear what he would have to say.

 

[MoxMonkey]

To win a national championship you almost by definition need to have a team that is too good for that level.

this makes total sense. It’s cool they have national tournaments, but having the flight/level structure does seem to have its issues.

I think I read that players that made deep into nationals come back the next year and compete at the same level again. If one is the elite of a given level shouldn’t they be comfortably rated in the next higher level? How can someone be a world beater in a flighted tournament structure and then qualify for the same level again the next year?

 

[Yamin]

I've had to restart tennis from scratch this year due to injury. I've played with rated "3.0s" that slide effortlessly on hardcourt with a well rounded all court game, and low 4.0's that can barely serve. Part of it is on USTA. I don't really see why someone who is winning most of their matches at a higher level is allowed to compete at the lower level (like someone rated 3.5 winning most 4.0 matches). I also don't see how people don't get bumped up with records like 12-3.

There are also times when there aren't enough players for a team to exist in your area. You either have to play up or play down to be on a team. I think this may be why you sometimes see weaker players at a higher level as well.

I personally prefer more challenging opponents...

 

[Jack the Hack]

I believe I would be considered a sandbagger at times in my life. I have won a national championship at 4.5 in 2018 and have generally had an excellent record at 4.5. I have been a 5.0 since winning that and have done fine. I dont seek out losing so I can be at a lower level, I just dont care as much and thus I dont prepare as well for regular season matches as I do about playoff matches. That has led to me generally getting rated down and then back up after doing well in the playoffs. I have been having fun playing at 5.0 but do prefer being at the top of a level rather than at the bottom of one.

It is an odd thing the way it has set up in my life, I have had a goal of winning a USTA team championship since I graduated college and made it to nationals on my dads 4.5 team. To win a national championship you almost by definition need to have a team that is too good for that level. It is possible that you could just have 8 players that are at the very top of the level and not above but I believe most teams that have won have to have higher than level ratings and sometimes significantly so and I believe @schmke shares that number at times.
I believe that the structure of the USTA leagues has been one of the best things for recreational tennis but then there will end up with problems like sandbagging and self rating and what not.

I think I may have seen previous posts on this, but congrats again on the 2018 national 4.5 title!

I generally don't have issues with players in 4.5 and 5.0, especially tweeners like yourself that are on the high end of 4.5 or low end of 5.0 that bounce back and forth. I've been in the same situation, along with my core group of friends that I usually hit with.

In my experience, the upper levels of USTA League have less sandbagging nonsense going on - and this is especially so when you get into the 40 and over categories.

Off the top of my head, these were the sandbagging 4.5 players I remember in my local area:

• Back in the late 90s, before self ratings, the newly graduated ACC singles champion from that year was somehow able to go to a USTA rating clinic and get himself on a 4.5 team. He played the minimum 2 matches (in doubles) to qualify for local playoffs, and then was unleashed in singles. I ended up playing this guy at #1 singles in the semifinals, where he beat me 6-2, 6-2. The 4 games I won were basically ones that he threw to me. A USTA ratings verifier watched the match and immediately disqualified him afterwards. I never saw that guy again.
• We had a self rated 4.5 join our local league that had been ranked #14 in the NCAA Division II and was in his late 20s/early 30s at the time. He was undefeated and winning easily. A grievance was filed and it turned out he didn't disclose his college playing background, so he was DQed. That guy went on to be a very good 5.0.
• There was a guy in his late 20s that had won two state HS championships and played 4 years of successful D1 tennis on scholarship that had self rated as a 4.0, went under the radar playing only 3 matches on a sucky 4.0 team, and then got a 4.5 C rating the following season. He was killing everyone in 4.5. A grievance was filed and the USTA acknowledged that he had fraudulently self rated at 4.0 (not disclosing his college background), but since he had a computer rating in 4.5, they said that they weren't willing to set a precedent by bumping a computer rated player up like this. He played out the season undefeated and was bumped to 5.0, where he's been very successful.
• In a different season, the exact same captain that had recruited the player above had another former NCAA D3 player self rate as 4.5 on his team. From what I remember, someone filed a grievance pointing out that this guy had 100+ wins in college, played in the top 2 or 3 position, the team had been ranked in the top 20 the entire time he was there, and that he had made the NCAA championship quarterfinals. I got this all relayed to me second-hand, but the USTA declined to bump him up (not sure why). Anyway, he went undefeated, the team went to Nationals, he got bumped to 5.0 afterwards, and he's had a successful winning record in 5.0 since.

To me, these were exceptional cases and kind of rare in 4.5 in my area. I think there are a ton of guys who played small college tennis that end up playing 4.5 and I don't really have a problem with it. Most are in that tweener category and I appreciate the fresh blood when they come along. And in the 40 and over categories, even guys that played at top blue blood D1 tennis schools have usually deteriorated enough physically that they can legitimately play at the top of 4.5 without being ridiculous.

My biggest issue is when players like what I described above end up going into 3.5 and 4.0 and laying waste to everyone. This forum is filled with stories of debauchery at these lower levels and it makes no sense.

As I said in one of the other threads, what the captain of the Intermountain 4.0 team is doing is cool... if he weren't doing it in 4.0! I think it's awesome that he's recruiting the top former high school champs from his area, and sponsoring them with free memberships to his club, free tennis lessons with pros, free racquets, strings, and gear, free food, and other expenses. That's amazing commitment for a USTA League team, very generous, and gives the players the college/pro experience. However, he should be doing it to win the 4.5 and 5.0 titles, not have these guys crush three straight nationals titles in 4.0. After you've won one 4.0 title doing this, what else do you have to prove?

 

[ohplease]

My big thing is win or lose - if you're not giving your opponents your best effort, you're doing a disservice to both them and yourself.

Want to recruit the best according to the rules laid out? Great. Want to practice and train like it's a full time job? Fantastic. There's a giant chasm, however, between stuff like that and the stuff people don't want to cop to like managing scores or hiding self rates so the algorithm doesn't catch them.

It doesn't happen often, but even the pro tours cite and fine players when they're not giving their best effort - but somehow the USTA is totally and completely powerless on this point.

 

[travlerajm]

The only time I encountered really blatant issues with sandbagging was the time I entered what I referred to at the time was “a sandbagger tournament.”

I called it that because huge cash prizes were offered at each ntrp level. $150,000 total. It was the only time in my life that I entered a tournament at a level that I thought was lower than my actual level. But I figured everyone would do the same. Of course I was advantaged by not having an established rating.

To make a long story short, the biggest problem was that some of the players in the tournament threw embarrassing tantrums whenever they felt themselves being outsandbagged. Even in the semis and finals with hundreds of spectators witnessing. My semi opponent tanked much of the first set then quit in protest of my level. Then my final opponent chucked his racquet after I stopped pushing and came from behind to win the 2nd set in 104F Vegas sun, and quit instead of playing a 3rd.

I ended up winning the national tournament (4.0 singles division), after a lot of drama by other 5.0 level players. The organizer ended up flaking on paying out to the winners, but he offered me a settlement payment when I accused him of fraud. I accepted it and moved on.

 

[Chairman3]

I think Unsolved Mysteries is going to do a two-part special on this very topic soon.

I'm down in FL where sandbagging is rampant and far more competitive than the actual matches being played.

 

[PK6]

All of you are whack jobs! I’m a broken record but sandbagging needs to be eliminated as well self ratings! The USTA is a **** trash organization because of this. Hope they burn and rot in hell!!!

 

[Bud]

Prevent potential flooding of personal property

 

[Bud]

I just heard today on the radio that the guys who got busted for cheating at a walleye fishing tournament, for stuffing lead weights into the fish, are getting charged with felonies.

USTA sandbaggers should be charged as felons too

 

[travlerajm]

USTA sandbaggers should be charged as felons too

The walleye cheaters were after the $30k cash prize. If you want to know what length crazy rec players will go to when a cash prize is on the line, you can follow my thread about the $150,000 ntrp National Championship tourney.

 

[travlerajm]

NTPR Tourney with $150,000 in Prize Money - An Untold Incredible but True Story

Chapter 1. The Hook The year was 2001. On the neighborhood public courts all-around Seattle, flyers were posted to invite players to play a national tournament with huge cash prizes. Open men’s singles division, for example, had $20,000 prize for the champion. There were also cash prizes...

tt.tennis-warehouse.com

 

[PK6]

USTA sandbaggers should be charged as felons too

Yes they should!!!

 

[LuckyR]

My observation is that women are overjoyed to be rated in the next higher level (they are proud of the rating, even if they lose at that level) and men want to be rated down (in order to win matches, even if at a lower level).

My guess is that the male ego doesn't handle losing well and the female ego doesn't like being rated low.

 

[Creighton]

My observation is that women are overjoyed to be rated in the next higher level (they are proud of the rating, even if they lose at that level) and men want to be rated down (in order to win matches, even if at a lower level).

My guess is that the male ego doesn't handle losing well and the female ego doesn't like being rated low.

While women probably have a greater number of vanity ratings, they have just as many ladies sandbagging to win as men.