Why poly strings will not be banned

jhhachamp

Hall of Fame
People who think Nadal's shots are all 100% natural talent. Guess what? He has the most unnatural shots I've ever seen.

Unnatural is subjective. Even if everyone agreed his shots were unnatural, I don't see why an unnatural shot could not be created by talent.

Shots that curve outside the doubles alley and then curve back into the singles line? Come on, that's completely unnatural and he's only able to do that thanks to his modern racquet and poly strings!

He is talented enough to pull off shots that no one else can. He isn't the only one using those strings.

If Nadal and Federer had played all of their matches with both using only 65 sq. in. wood racquets with the standard 18x20 pattern strung with full natural gut (about as natural of a set up as you can get sans playing bare handed), I can guarantee that Federer would be way ahead of Nadal in their H2H. Heck, I'd be surprised if Nadal was able to win even a single match, even on clay!

Who cares? How is this relevant? If you forced one player to make a major switch and another to make a less major switch, of course the player making the bigger switch would be affected more.
 

jhhachamp

Hall of Fame
Going off your definition of unnatural, Lebron James plays the game of basketball unnaturally (no one has ever played like him), so therefore his results cannot be due to talent?
 
L

Laurie

Guest
But the question is what makes the difference? The slower courts, or the polyester strings?

In other words, there are complaints of grinding baseline tennis, would quicker courts move the goalposts, regardless of the strings used? And of course the type of tennis ball?

Personally I have no problems with poly strings, they have been used by professional players for a long time now.
 
But that's the point. He shouldn't be allowed, and neither should anyone else. These high-tech racquets and poly strings have turned tennis from a game of skill and strategy into a grind-fest.

well I understand where you are coming from. I dont blame you....

but unfortunately the masses find todays style of tennis more exciting than ever before...so its here to stay....

so if you cant beat them you better join them.
 

jg153040

G.O.A.T.
Ok, guys on both sides, look. Is there any evidence that today male tennis has more ratings than Fed's prime? I would like to see some rating numbers, if somebody has them, not just guesses form biased fans.
 

BreakPoint

Bionic Poster
Unnatural is subjective. Even if everyone agreed his shots were unnatural, I don't see why an unnatural shot could not be created by talent.
Because if it was really just talent then Nadal should be able to hit that shot using ANY racquet and ANY strings, even with a 65 sq. in. wood racquet with the super dense 18x20 pattern in that tiny head strung with full gut, but I doubt he can. Thus, it's not his natural talent but his unnatural equipment.

He is talented enough to pull off shots that no one else can. He isn't the only one using those strings.
It's not talent, it's his modern equipment. He just takes advantage of it more than most others.

Who cares? How is this relevant? If you forced one player to make a major switch and another to make a less major switch, of course the player making the bigger switch would be affected more.
It's not just about switching. It's about removing all the technology that has corrupted the game and going back to basics. Just like removing high-tech swimsuits from swimming or modern bats from baseball.
 

BreakPoint

Bionic Poster
Going off your definition of unnatural, Lebron James plays the game of basketball unnaturally (no one has ever played like him), so therefore his results cannot be due to talent?
Yes, I blame LeBron James' unnatural talent to sink baskets on his modern racquet and poly strings. :shock:
 

jhhachamp

Hall of Fame
Breakpoint, I'm sorry other posters do not agree with you that tennis should go back to the way it was played 50 years ago...
 

BreakPoint

Bionic Poster
Breakpoint, I'm sorry other posters do not agree with you that tennis should go back to the way it was played 50 years ago...
I'm not so sure that no one else agrees. Or else this would not have been a topic on here and by tennis experts and commentators for many years.

Besides, I don't hear baseball fans complaining that baseball is still played pretty much the same way as it was 50 years ago, do you?
 

jhhachamp

Hall of Fame
Besides, I don't hear baseball fans complaining that baseball is still played pretty much the same way as it was 50 years ago, do you?

There have been many changes to baseball over the past 50 years as well. The main reason that baseball does not allow metal bats is because of safety issues. There are no safety issues with graphite rackets.

Sure there are a handful of people who agree with you, but you are clearly in the minority.
 

BreakPoint

Bionic Poster
There have been many changes to baseball over the past 50 years as well. The main reason that baseball does not allow metal bats is because of safety issues. There are no safety issues with graphite rackets.

Sure there are a handful of people who agree with you, but you are clearly in the minority.
MLB also doesn't allow metal bats because then just about everyone who steps up to the plate could hit a home run. That would make the game pretty boring. I am not aware of any significant changes in equipment nor in the way baseball is played in the past 50 years. Unlike in tennis, where lots has changed in the past 50 years in addition to the equipment, such as the tiebreak and the Hawkeye challenge system.

BTW, if you don't think there are any safety issues with graphite racquets then you have clearly never been nailed in the face or in the nuts by a 100mph passing shot while at the net. :shock:
 

souledge

Semi-Pro
Better than getting a hot shot straight back to the face at the pitcher's mound. That is the main reason why aluminum bats are not allowed. We already see horrible injuries to pitchers now, imagine if the bats were even hotter and the balls came off faster.

The extra potential offense concern is secondary to this one.

Safety is relative, obviously a baseball hit at your fact with an aluminum bat is much worse than a tennis ball hit at your face with a graphite racket.
 

jhhachamp

Hall of Fame
MLB also doesn't allow metal bats because then just about everyone who steps up to the plate could hit a home run.

I cannot find any info online that supports this claim.

That would make the game pretty boring.

I think many would disagree with you here. Popularity soared in the 90s when everyone was juicing and blasting home runs like never before.

I am not aware of any significant changes in equipment nor in the way baseball is played in the past 50 years. Unlike in tennis, where lots has changed in the past 50 years in addition to the equipment, such as the tiebreak and the Hawkeye challenge system.

I am not a big baseball follower, but just off the top of my head: instant replay, interleague play, and the beginning of a crackdown on PEDs which was previously overlooked. I could see a situation where the balls and strikes were no longer called by an umpire and that would be a good change in my opinion.


BTW, if you don't think there are any safety issues with graphite racquets then you have clearly never been nailed in the face or in the nuts by a 100mph passing shot while at the net. :shock:

I hope you are joking here. I've been hit plenty of times with a tennis ball everywhere it hurts, the face, the balls, the eye. One time a friend smashed an overhead at me that left a huge welt in my side (I was not wearing a shirt and was attempting to move off the court).

You cannot seriously compare being hit with a tennis ball to a being hit with a baseball. Every year, pitchers are sent to the emergency room after getting blasted with line drives and often suffer brain damage or major injury. Metal bats would make it even more likely.

As far as getting hit with a tennis ball, yes it hurts, but please man up and stop being such a freaking sissy.
 

Bud

Bionic Poster
If that was true then Nadal would be using the same combo.

What's "nonsense" is thinking Nadal is so naturally gifted that he would lose nothing whatsoever if he played with a 65 sq. in. wood racquet with the standard 18x20 pattern strung with full gut. I can guarantee he wouldn't be able to hit the same shots as he does now with his APD strung with poly.

That's like turning your silly argument around and saying that if full poly was the best for the modern game then Federer would be using it. You think Federer hasn't tried full poly setups after being dogged by Nadal 21x? The pros use what works best for their style.

Nadal's full poly setup simply allows him to hit through his shots more as full poly definitely kills the power. The best string combo for both spin and power is a hybrid with a powerful main and a poly cross.
 

BreakPoint

Bionic Poster
I cannot find any info online that supports this claim.

I think many would disagree with you here. Popularity soared in the 90s when everyone was juicing and blasting home runs like never before.

I am not a big baseball follower, but just off the top of my head: instant replay, interleague play, and the beginning of a crackdown on PEDs which was previously overlooked. I could see a situation where the balls and strikes were no longer called by an umpire and that would be a good change in my opinion.

I hope you are joking here. I've been hit plenty of times with a tennis ball everywhere it hurts, the face, the balls, the eye. One time a friend smashed an overhead at me that left a huge welt in my side (I was not wearing a shirt and was attempting to move off the court).

You cannot seriously compare being hit with a tennis ball to a being hit with a baseball. Every year, pitchers are sent to the emergency room after getting blasted with line drives and often suffer brain damage or major injury. Metal bats would make it even more likely.

As far as getting hit with a tennis ball, yes it hurts, but please man up and stop being such a freaking sissy.
1. If everyone hits a home run, no baseball games would ever get out of the top of the first inning as every player who steps up to the plate would just smack a home run. Fans would be bored to tears. Games would never finish. Two years later, they would still be playing the same game and they would still be at the top of the first inning, and the score would be 5,893 to 0. :shock:

2. Since when did MLB start allowing batters to challenge strikes by using instant replay?

3. There have been people blinded by getting hit in the eye with a tennis ball.
 

BreakPoint

Bionic Poster
That's like turning your silly argument around and saying that if full poly was the best for the modern game then Federer would be using it. You think Federer hasn't tried full poly setups after being dogged by Nadal 21x? The pros use what works best for their style.

Nadal's full poly setup simply allows him to hit through his shots more as full poly definitely kills the power. The best string combo for both spin and power is a hybrid with a powerful main and a poly cross.
Full poly doesn't work in small racquets like Federer's Tour 90. It works much better in an APD. If Nadal used a hybrid, all of his balls would fly out.
 

Bender

G.O.A.T.
Full poly doesn't work in small racquets like Federer's Tour 90. It works much better in an APD. If Nadal used a hybrid, all of his balls would fly out.
Even I can keep my groundstrokes in with a hybrid setup on my APD.

Also, gut mains alu crosses setup is more powerful and spinnier.
 

HRB

Hall of Fame
Full poly doesn't work in small racquets like Federer's Tour 90. It works much better in an APD. If Nadal used a hybrid, all of his balls would fly out.

I tried..GOD I TRIED so hard to annoy your insane one sided BS...but I gotta chime in...NADAL AND PRETTY MUCH ALL TOP 20 PROS ARE SUPERIOR TENNIS ATHLETES TO ANYTHING YOU CAN FATHOM AND IF GIVEN YOUR MORONIC LIMITATIONS THEY WOULD ADAPT AND STILL BE THE TOP PLAYERS!!!! Point is there are none of these limitations...SO THAT ALONE is the ONLY reason your dumbass claims will not be disproved!!!!

Roger is GREAT, Nadal is GREAT...Roger has NEVER been prevented from using Nadals equipments choices...so don't you think if this was such an unfair advantage him and others would have switched...and probably wore shoes a size too small like Rafa does as well? Point is these pros use what works best FOR THEM!!!!!! Just like all players should unless they get caught up in your ********!
 

jhhachamp

Hall of Fame
1. If everyone hits a home run, no baseball games would ever get out of the top of the first inning as every player who steps up to the plate would just smack a home run. Fans would be bored to tears. Games would never finish. Two years later, they would still be playing the same game and they would still be at the top of the first inning, and the score would be 5,893 to 0. :shock:

Nothing remotely similar to this would happen. There would be an effect as some balls that are currently getting caught at or close to the warning track would carry out, but that is it. Just because all the hitters would be more capable of hitting the ball out of the park does not mean that pitchers would just lob the balls in there. Even if they did lob the balls in, there would not be home runs every pitch. Go watch the home run derby, they do not hit home runs every pitch.

It is difficult to take anything you say seriously when you post such ridiculous nonsense.

2. Since when did MLB start allowing batters to challenge strikes by using instant replay

Go back and read what I wrote, I never said MLB did that yet, just that it is something I can see as a possibility in the future.

3. There have been people blinded by getting hit in the eye with a tennis ball.

Tennis is a sport and therefore there are some risks. Compared to most other sports, these risks are much severe and much less frequent.
 
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BreakPoint

Bionic Poster
Even I can keep my groundstrokes in with a hybrid setup on my APD.

Also, gut mains alu crosses setup is more powerful and spinnier.
But I doubt you hit the ball as hard as Nadal does and I also doubt your racquet head speed is as fast, either.
 

sunof tennis

Professional
I tried..GOD I TRIED so hard to annoy your insane one sided BS...but I gotta chime in...NADAL AND PRETTY MUCH ALL TOP 20 PROS ARE SUPERIOR TENNIS ATHLETES TO ANYTHING YOU CAN FATHOM AND IF GIVEN YOUR MORONIC LIMITATIONS THEY WOULD ADAPT AND STILL BE THE TOP PLAYERS!!!! Point is there are none of these limitations...SO THAT ALONE is the ONLY reason your dumbass claims will not be disproved!!!!

Roger is GREAT, Nadal is GREAT...Roger has NEVER been prevented from using Nadals equipments choices...so don't you think if this was such an unfair advantage him and others would have switched...and probably wore shoes a size too small like Rafa does as well? Point is these pros use what works best FOR THEM!!!!!! Just like all players should unless they get caught up in your ********!

I really don't think his main point is that Nadal gets an unfair advantage over Federer. Instead, he primarily argues for a ban on poly strings for all players, which would obviously include Federer, as he believes that poly strings taken with slowing of the courts has, in his opinion, made for a less creative, boring brand of tennis. Clearly this is a subjective observation and one with which I sympathize. However, poly strings and large headed racquets are here to stay. I believe the manufacturers are too committed to them to ever go back. His secondary point that if Nadal and Federer played with quipment from 50 years, it would benefit Federer greatly is interesting, but obviously cannot be proven. Would love to see such a match however.
 

HRB

Hall of Fame
I really don't think his main point is that Nadal gets an unfair advantage over Federer. Instead, he primarily argues for a ban on poly strings for all players, which would obviously include Federer, as he believes that poly strings taken with slowing of the courts has, in his opinion, made for a less creative, boring brand of tennis. Clearly this is a subjective observation and one with which I sympathize. However, poly strings and large headed racquets are here to stay. I believe the manufacturers are too committed to them to ever go back. His secondary point that if Nadal and Federer played with quipment from 50 years, it would benefit Federer greatly is interesting, but obviously cannot be proven. Would love to see such a match however.

You poor naive soul....I should protect you from the darkside of nonsense that is BP...if you dare venture into his post you'll be exposed to the maniacal defense of under 90 sq inch heads as the only sane choice, and the ridicule of any shot he can't produce or handle (i.e. the 2-handed backhand) as "un-natural". He fights the good fight for all that want to impose their own personal preferences upon others ad nausea! Be careful brave soul, his lack of logic and refusal to admit his stubbornness will drive you to argue with a fool, and feel less of yourself for having done so!:twisted:
 

davidwat

New User
The problem is the poly and other equipment changes have killed the net game in singles tennis by making crosscourt and dtl passing shots so much more effective. This has diminished the entertainment value of the game. I don't know that banning poly would fix this but it would be worth a try.
 

ultradr

Legend
Someone posted a thread about why poly strings should be banned. It will not happen, nor should it happen. And I want to post a separate thread explaining my reasoning.

I won’t call that person a Luddite but I could. And to ban poly strings? And to say they are like spaghetti strings? You don’t know your history and you don’t know tennis. The great Guillermo Vilas had a winning streak of 61 +/- matches that was stopped when he played Illie Nastassie who was using spaghetti strings. So you think Nadal has the same unfair advantage that Illie Nastassie had because you think spaghetti strings play like poly strings? Well no, they don’t play alike. Unlike poly strings, spaghetti strings put an unnatural action on the ball. By contrast, Nadal puts an action on the ball that is facilitated, or made easier, by poly strings; the poly strings do not put something on the ball that is separate from the player. By contrast, spaghetti strings put an action on the ball that is independent of the player’s ability.

The argument is further soured by the echoes of those who said non-wooden racquets should be banned. Yes, Bud Collins, the greatest tennis sports journalist of all times, 20 years ago suggested that tennis should follow baseball and ban all non-wooden racquets from professional tennis. (Professional baseball allows the use of wooden bats only). His argument rested on the idea that had professional baseball allowed aluminum bats, everyone could hit a home run, so in professional tennis everyone using a non-wooden racquet could hit a winner every time, thus ruining he game.

Well now we see what has happened, and for what it's worth, I like it.

i know it won't happen.

but i want that ban.

tennis is no longer all court game. it is "run-and-hit-forehand" game. I blame it on polyester( and slow surfaces, and heavier balls,....) :D
 
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