Caroline Wozniacki rejects apology from Maria Sharapova's agent

D

Deleted member 77403

Guest
Bartelby said:
It is taken because people think it may enhance cardio output, but why on earth consider the opinion of people who buy things on poor advice and rumour?
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If you are directing messages at me, then I kindly request at least have the decency to quote me. I have no idea you have responded until I decide to come back into the thread and read what else is written. If you can't be asked to do that, then don't bother replying because I might not see it.

It is not taken because people think it may enhance cardiac output, it is medically advised by doctors and physicians here. Look, you can sit there and throw up whatever articles you want. I see it on a very regular basis. I work as a personal trainer, health and fitness is how I put food on my table, so I know of everything that my clients have taken, I have to do one to one consultations and while I must keep that information confidential, I can assure you everyone here knows what that substance does. I got no issues that you don't like that fact, or agree with it, but please don't insult my intelligence anymore. Thanks.
 
Bartelby

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
It's a dirt cheap drug that you can buy without a prescription, and we already know that coaches and trainers hand it out as something to take.

But when there was a panic about steroids in western gyms there was a wealth of factual medical information, with Meldnonium there is none.

It's a pseudo-drug that functions as a placebo.

There was one study done by Grindeks that showed that old people with heart condition on the medication could climb stairs slightly quicker than the control group, so that's it for improved cardiac output.

And that's a non-replicated study done by the company that stands to make money.

We need proof, not anecdote, and as no one is looking so we won't get it.
 
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Gary Duane

Gary Duane

G.O.A.T.
Bartelby said:
It's a dirt cheap drug that you can buy without a prescription, and we already know that coaches and trainers hand it out as something to take.

But when there was a panic about steroids in western gyms there was a wealth of factual medical information, with Meldnonium there is none.
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Who are you replying to?

You seem to be replying to @Hitman. If so, would you please quote him?
 
D

Deleted member 77403

Guest
Gary Duane said:
Who are you replying to?

You seem to be replying to @Hitman. If so, would you please quote him?
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If he does not have the decency to quote me, then I have got no time to answer anymore. It's like trying to have eye contact with someone when you are trying to talk to them, but they prefer to turn their back to you when they speak. As for the drug, I know exactly what it is does in real world, a PED, no amount incorrect info here will tell me otherwise. I'm done here.
 
canta_Brian

canta_Brian

Hall of Fame
Hitman said:
If he does not have the decency to quote me, then I have got no time to answer anymore. It's like trying to have eye contact with someone when you are trying to talk to them, but they prefer to turn their back to you when they speak. As for the drug, I know exactly what it is does in real world, a PED, no amount incorrect info here will tell me otherwise. I'm done here.
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The Bartlebot automated Sharapova defense algorithm won't quote you because you are making sense. Better to bury posts by repeating itself again and again.

Step 1. Claim meldonium is not a ped.
Step 2. Claim any research that suggests otherwise is flawed or has not been replicated or simply that nobody has actually studied it as a ped.
Step 3. Claim step 2 proves step 1.

You could say something like;

Step 1. Saturn is made of cheese.
Step 2. No studies have been done that specifically look at whether Saturn is made of cheese or not.
Step 3. Therefore Saturn is definitely made of cheese.
 
Bartelby

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
re 1:
a. It is not I who claims Meldonium is not a PED.
b. WADA does not claim it is a PED.
c. From WADA's 'fantasyland' point of view, if you wish something is a PED it becomes true.

re 2:
There is virtually no research of any sort on Meldonium, dunce, but if you have a reseacrch file full of studies then publish links it here.
 
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Bartelby

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
Look. I quoted you. You said nothing except 'real world'. Excellent. Keep it up!

Hitman said:
If he does not have the decency to quote me, then I have got no time to answer anymore. It's like trying to have eye contact with someone when you are trying to talk to them, but they prefer to turn their back to you when they speak. As for the drug, I know exactly what it is does in real world, a PED, no amount incorrect info here will tell me otherwise. I'm done here.
Click to expand...
 
Bartelby

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
re 1:
a. It is not I who claims Meldonium is not a PED.
b. WADA does not claim it is a PED.
c. From WADA's 'fantasyland' point of view, if you wish something is a PED it becomes true.

re 2:
There is virtually no research of any sort on Meldonium, dunce, but if you have a reseacrch file full of studies then publish links it here.

2 &3 are discrete points. The conclusion I draw is the following question:

What is the real reason WADA banned Meldonium and why was it such a stalwart if indirect supporter of the Obama campaign to kick Russia out of the Olympics?
 
canta_Brian

canta_Brian

Hall of Fame
The other thing the Bartlebot will do is reply withe the same post, or edited versions of the same post multiple times. I guess this is to bury any posts it doesn't like. Note once again the original post is not quoted.

I won't waste everyone's time by trawling through all the posts where the bot claims meldonium is not a ped.
Bartelby said:
re 1:
a. It is not I who claims Meldonium is not a PED.
b. WADA does not claim it is a PED.
c. From WADA's 'fantasyland' point of view, if you wish something is a PED it becomes true.

re 2:
There is virtually no research of any sort on Meldonium, dunce, but if you have a reseacrch file full of studies then publish links it here.
Click to expand...

Bartelby said:
re 1:
a. It is not I who claims Meldonium is not a PED.
b. WADA does not claim it is a PED.
c. From WADA's 'fantasyland' point of view, if you wish something is a PED it becomes true.

re 2:
There is virtually no research of any sort on Meldonium, dunce, but if you have a reseacrch file full of studies then publish links it here.

2 &3 are discrete points. The conclusion I draw is the following question:

What is the real reason WADA banned Meldonium and why was it such a stalwart if indirect supporter of the Obama campaign to kick Russia out of the Olympics?
Click to expand...
 
Thriller

Thriller

Hall of Fame
Bartelby said:
I guess you just didn't read my first sentence, so now get to work with all the references to the ITF, WTA and ATP rather an ex post facto collection of things from WADA we now know where to find but were buried in documents in real-time!
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How were they 'buried documents' when anyone can find them on the WADA website and press releases are issued globally?

Did you follow the link?

https://www.usatoday.com/story/spor...a-updates-list-of-banned-substances/73073450/

USA TODAY published a press association article in September 2015 announcing that meldonium would be banned in 2016?

Do you think they used a ouija board to find these 'buried documents'?

The documentary referred to a 2015 study in which 17% of Russian athletes (724 of 4,316) tested were found to have meldonium in their system. A global study found 2.2% of athletes had it in their system.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/mar/08/meldonium-maria-sharapova-failed-drugs-test
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Leaving aside the observation that there was a whole lot of 'placebo' going on in Russia, hundreds of Russian athletes were using Meldonium in 2015 and mere handfuls were caught after 2016.

If the hundreds who quit the habit could find 'buried documents' and read their emails, shame on the wealthiest of them all, with the most resources, who could not or more likely would not comply with a basic request: stop your juicing!
 
Thriller

Thriller

Hall of Fame
Bartelby said:
What is the real reason WADA banned Meldonium?
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Because they wanted to ban illiterate or mentally lazy placebo users from competitive sport?

Banning a placebo only penalises those with a slapdash approach to adhering to sporting regulations. Amazing that someone as meticulous as Madame Meldo got caught in the trap .....
 
Thriller

Thriller

Hall of Fame
No. My point is that if even a downmarket newspaper like USA Today in 2015 can work out and publish a story that Meldonium will be banned in 2016, shame on Sharapova!
 
Thriller

Thriller

Hall of Fame
Bartelby said:
The USA TODAY link is actually broken, by the way.
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Thanks. Try this one:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/spor...a-updates-list-of-banned-substances/73073450/


OLYMPICS
WADA updates list of banned substances

6:13 a.m. ET Sept. 30, 2015
MONTREAL (AP) — The World Anti-Doping Agency has added an anti-ischemic drug to its list of banned substances.

WADA says meldonium, also known as mildronate, was included in the updated list because of "evidence of its use by athletes with the intention of enhancing performance."

Developed in Latvia, meldonium has been used to treat ischemia, or lack of blood flow. Meldonium had previously been on WADA's list of drugs to be monitored.

Check the date. So 3 months before the ban, this was public knowledge.

No excuses.
 
Bartelby

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
That's what journalism is these days. You write up WADA press releases and pass it off as journalism. No one reads USA Today so that's not exactly helpful for players.

The legal decision of CAS makes it clear that the information given to players was derisory and a USA Today re-write of a WADA press release does not contradict that finding.
 
Thriller

Thriller

Hall of Fame
Bartelby said:
No one reads USA Today so that's not exactly helpful for players.
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Well it is helpful for those players who read mainstream newspapers, for everyone else there are personal emails, the WADA app, access to a 24hrs per day WADA helpline, WTA doctors, ITF doctors ...

Hundreds quit. No excuses for the handful that couldn't or wouldn't.
 
Thriller

Thriller

Hall of Fame
Bartelby said:
CAS studied the matter of notice and their findings are excellent.
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They are. They found her guilty of cheating and banned her for 15 months. Imo the sentence is lenient but other than that I wholly concur with CAS that Sharapova is a convicted drugs cheat who deserved a ban.
 
Bartelby

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
CAS certainly banned her for 15 months for inadvertent use, just as Sharapova claimed, but cleared her of any accusation of cheating.

You are really just talking from prejudice so you are a pretty useless interlocutor.
 
S

Soianka

Hall of Fame
Bartelby said:
It's a dirt cheap drug that you can buy without a prescription.
Click to expand...

There are lots of medications that you can buy without a prescription overseas that require prescriptions in the US. So it doesn't really mean much that a prescription isn't required.

We do know that the manufacturer advertised this medication as enhancing exercise performance and we do know that hundreds of athletes were taking it.
 
bigserving

bigserving

Hall of Fame
Bartelby said:
It's a dirt cheap drug that you can buy without a prescription, and we already know that coaches and trainers hand it out as something to take.

But when there was a panic about steroids in western gyms there was a wealth of factual medical information, with Meldnonium there is none.

It's a pseudo-drug that functions as a placebo.

There was one study done by Grindeks that showed that old people with heart condition on the medication could climb stairs slightly quicker than the control group, so that's it for improved cardiac output.

And that's a non-replicated study done by the company that stands to make money.

We need proof, not anecdote, and as no one is looking so we won't get it.
Click to expand...

Assuming, for the sake of argument, that all of this is true.

Why did she take it for ten years, as she admitted?
Why did she not take it everyday, but more on match days, as she admitted.?
Why did she not disclose to doctors that she was taking it?
 
Thriller

Thriller

Hall of Fame
Bartelby said:
CAS certainly banned her for 15 months for inadvertent use, just as Sharapova claimed, but cleared her of any accusation of cheating.
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For inadvertent drug use, CAS reduced Cilic's ban to 4 months. Sharapova's ban was nearly 4 times as long, which gives a very good indication of how 'inadvertent' CAS viewed Sharapova's drug habit. Guilty as charged!!

Getting 15 months of pariah status from CAS is no kind of victory.

You are really just talking from prejudice so you are a pretty useless interlocutor.
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For info, getting rude with me doesn't work.
 
canta_Brian

canta_Brian

Hall of Fame
Thriller said:
For inadvertent drug use, CAS reduced Cilic's ban to 4 months. Sharapova's ban was nearly 4 times as long, which gives a very good indication of how 'inadvertent' CAS viewed Sharapova's drug habit. Guilty as charged!!

Getting 15 months of pariah status from CAS is no kind of victory.



For info, getting rude with me doesn't work.
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Yep, when the Bartlebot goes into insult mode you know you have won.

Next stage he ignores any posts you make for a while which is good.

Less good is the next step, which is just reposting all the same rot until until he can pretend that he never got called on it.
 
C

Chadillac

Guest
Thriller said:
Thanks. Try this one:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/spor...a-updates-list-of-banned-substances/73073450/


OLYMPICS
WADA updates list of banned substances

6:13 a.m. ET Sept. 30, 2015
MONTREAL (AP) — The World Anti-Doping Agency has added an anti-ischemic drug to its list of banned substances.

WADA says meldonium, also known as mildronate, was included in the updated list because of "evidence of its use by athletes with the intention of enhancing performance."

Developed in Latvia, meldonium has been used to treat ischemia, or lack of blood flow. Meldonium had previously been on WADA's list of drugs to be monitored.

Check the date. So 3 months before the ban, this was public knowledge.

No excuses.
Click to expand...

It was actually Dec 9th when wada announced it would be illegal in tennis the following year. Official notification to the players went out as late as the 19th.

Thats why many melo users go their sentence reduced, they could of taken it legally and it would still be in their system.
 
Bobby Jr

Bobby Jr

G.O.A.T.
Bartelby said:
It's a pseudo-drug that functions as a placebo.
Click to expand...
So now you've had your arse handed to you multiple times including mods removing your posts and even whole threads for your bullshittery you've resorted to fabricating stuff wholesale?

It was only a matter of time before your desperation shifted from a moderate attempt to put forward plausible arguments to plain old lies. I'm actually surprised you mananged to hold out this long.
 
Bartelby

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
So you are now claiming that the mods delete posts they disagree with. This is very disrespectful.

Bobby Jr said:
So now you've had your arse handed to you multiple times including mods removing your posts and even whole threads for your bullshittery you've resorted to fabricating stuff wholesale?

It was only a matter of time before your desperation shifted from a moderate attempt to put forward plausible arguments to plain old lies. I'm actually surprised you mananged to hold out this long.
Click to expand...
 
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Thriller

Thriller

Hall of Fame
Chadillac said:
It was actually Dec 9th when wada announced it would be illegal in tennis the following year.
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You are 100% wrong and that is a matter of fact. The prohibited list for each year is published every September of the previous year giving athletes 3 months to get off the juice. Sharapova has been on the tour for 15 years, longer as a junior. She and her doctors have no excuse for not checking the updated list every September.

The banned list for 2016 was published on 16 September 2015. See for yourself.

https://www.wada-ama.org/en/media/news/2015-09/wada-publishes-2016-prohibited-list

Every message after that was a reminder from WADA not a notification.
 
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Bobby Jr

Bobby Jr

G.O.A.T.
Thriller said:
You are 100% wrong and that is a matter of fact. The prohibited list for each year is published every September of the previous year giving athletes 3 months to get off the juice. Sharapova has been on the tour for 15 years, longer as a junior. She and her doctors have no excuse for not checking the updated list every September.

The banned list for 2016 was published on 16 September 2015. See for yourself.

Every message after that was a reminder from WADA not a notification.
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Moreso, the fact she failed to list Meldonium on her disclosure list for something like ten years while it was legal - as athletes are supposed to do with all of their meds/supplements - was the telling detail about her usage of Meldonium. She forgot to list it while remembering to list other stuff? It appears exactly like someone who sought to hide something which any WADA official or drugs expert offical would eventually enter their sights as a substance which intended to achieve something which would see it added to the banned list eventually (when they got around to it after noticing the huge spike in use of it among athletes from a certain part of the world).
 
Thriller

Thriller

Hall of Fame
Bobby Jr said:
Moreso, the fact she failed to list Meldonium on her disclosure list for something like ten years while it was legal - as athletes are supposed to do with all of their meds/supplements - was the telling detail about her usage of Meldonium. She forgot to list it while remembering to list other stuff? It appears exactly like someone who sought to hide something which any WADA official or drugs expert offical would eventually enter their sights as a substance which intended to achieve something which would see it added to the banned list eventually (when they got around to it after noticing the huge spike in use of it among athletes from a certain part of the world).
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So fitting that her mendacity caught up with her in the end. If she had ever disclosed to her doctors (personal, Wta, Itf), trainers, nutritionists, drug control officers on the doping control form, like she is supposed to do etc that she was a meldonium fiend, it might have been possible to give her a personalised notification to quit the junk.

But she isolated herself in a web of deceit and had to rely on checking the WADA website, app, press releases and emailsfor guidance .... and still failed.

With such a slapdash attitude to drugs in sport, it is a miracle it took this long to catch her.

No excuses. Sole author of her own misfortune. No sympathy.

My sympathy is with all the players she cheated in a long final set in a 10 year period. We thought it was due to her legendary focus and strong mind. We now know that it is a lot easier to keep your focus and hang tough when a double dose of Meldo is reducing stress, giving more energy and reducing the debilitating effects of lactic acid on the muscles.

I used to be a fan, not of her as a person, but of her warrior spirit. Which I now know is bogus.

It will be interesting to see just how clutch she is without the chemical props. So far, hopeless. 1/4 in a final set ... Hmmmm
 
Bartelby

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
They don't give personalised notifications, nor much notification at all, and many were caught unaware.

All this was dealt with in the CAS ruling so you really don't have to tax your imagination with fantasy and speculation.

Thriller said:
So fitting that her mendacity caught up with her in the end. If she had ever disclosed to her doctors (personal, Wta, Itf), trainers, nutritionists, drug control officers on the doping control form, like she is supposed to do etc that she was a meldonium fiend, it might have been possible to give her a personalised notification to quit the junk.
Click to expand...
 
Thriller

Thriller

Hall of Fame
Bartelby said:
They don't give personalised notifications, nor much notification at all, and many were caught unaware.

All this was dealt with in the CAS ruling so you really don't have to tax your imagination with fantasy and speculation.
Click to expand...

Not WADA. A WTA doctor might have been able to say 'Are you still on meldo? Double doses for important matches? Well you need to stop as it will be banned in January.' .... if she had ever told the truth about the medication she was taking .....

All those lies eventually sunk her ship!
 
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