Need a shrink
- Thread starter Shroud
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Shroud
G.O.A.T.
Couple reasons.
1. I didnt think the topspin on the fh was going to go in. I don't switch grips on fh or bh so while I have great trust with the bh topspin, I am not set up to switch grips or at least its not on my list of things to do. So if I am not hitting topspin Fhs, I start with a conti grip and slice off of both wings. I am changing the fh a tad and well its not solid.
2. It was windy and the slice is easier to control
3. I wanted some net play and it was working to get me in.
So its kind of both.
GrandSlam45
Rookie
But there was a guy who played at my club who was a 'slicing specialist'. The only guy I've even seen who could do it, but he learned how to completely take advantage of club players with loopy top spin shots. He would step into the ball and basically hit down with a lot of pace so the ball would just skid about 2 feet from the baseline. He destroyed everyone because no one had ever seen anything like it.
The only way to beat him was to hit hard and deep, or fight fire with fire and slice everything back. This was at the 4.0 level btw. Prob wouldn't work so well at 4.5. But slicing can be an effective technique if you just want to win and don't care about hitting the ball correctly.
The only way to beat him was to hit hard and deep, or fight fire with fire and slice everything back. This was at the 4.0 level btw. Prob wouldn't work so well at 4.5. But slicing can be an effective technique if you just want to win and don't care about hitting the ball correctly.
TnsGuru
Professional
You hate it because it isn't your normal playing style. You don't want to win with an awkward game, you wanted to win with the game you have probably been working on for years am I right? Look at it this way, at least you have other options if plan A isn't working. Maybe incorporate a little bit of what you used in your match into your normal game to give yourself more variety.
That should make you more unpredictable and the variety will surely mess up your opponents rhythm and timing. Winning isn't always about being pretty, sometimes you have to pull the old rabbit out of the hat. Maybe you noticed your opponent didn't like the low bouncing slices and you picked up on it subconsciously and just kept attacking his weakness?
One time I was playing a heavy topspinner and at the time couldn't counterattack by hitting on the rise yet so I went with the low chips and slices and it made him so frustrated because he hated the low bounce. I won but hated the way I had to win but then I learned how to hit the ball earlier so topspinners wouldn't bother me anymore.
That should make you more unpredictable and the variety will surely mess up your opponents rhythm and timing. Winning isn't always about being pretty, sometimes you have to pull the old rabbit out of the hat. Maybe you noticed your opponent didn't like the low bouncing slices and you picked up on it subconsciously and just kept attacking his weakness?
One time I was playing a heavy topspinner and at the time couldn't counterattack by hitting on the rise yet so I went with the low chips and slices and it made him so frustrated because he hated the low bounce. I won but hated the way I had to win but then I learned how to hit the ball earlier so topspinners wouldn't bother me anymore.
rogerroger917
Hall of Fame
Humble brag. Get better.
Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
Shroud
G.O.A.T.
I have one, and I had time to use it on monday so yep I am doing that.
Its a challenge that I can't seem to solve or have others understand. I can't seem to hit in a controlled manner Like its dinking or hitting all out. Topspin is problematic because if I "just get it in" I hold back and the spin decreases. So I need to hit out to get more spin. If I get the spin things are good. But if I miss well its to the fence.
Most players seem to be able to hit at 1 or 5 or 8 but I cant seem to do that. Or at least in matches I can groove on a ball machine but thats different.
Shroud
G.O.A.T.
That is the interesting bit. I am wired as a serve and volleyer and am ok chipping and charging. But I do like to pound out some groundies. Maybe thats the problem. I don't know how I want to play. Its a good point about being versatile.
And he plays a guy who slices but slices short all the time. So I noticed that when I went to hit a bh slice, he would start moving up to cover the short ball. I can hit short slices like everyone but I was hitting deeper than he sees from that guy and it affected him a bit.
Shroud
G.O.A.T.
I wish. That would be the kind of adjustment a good player makes. In this case I changed it up because I was missing Fhs like crazy.
Shroud
G.O.A.T.
LOL. If you saw the set you would see there is no bragging. Two old dudes dinking. ON ct 1 there were two college guys hitting the crap out of the ball which might have something to do with this.
We sat after the set just watching and laughing at how much better they were. I want to hit like that!
TnsGuru
Professional
Do you have a hitting partner that will drill with you rather than hitting with a ball machine? I stopped using my ball machine because the bounces were too predictable and perfect and this is not real tennis IMO and it gives you false confidence in the groundstrokes.
Changing depth/heights/speeds/direction help you to adjust your footwork and positioning and this is what you get when you play a real person vs a ball machine. If I use a ball machine, I use it to perfect volleys not so much the groundies.
Changing depth/heights/speeds/direction help you to adjust your footwork and positioning and this is what you get when you play a real person vs a ball machine. If I use a ball machine, I use it to perfect volleys not so much the groundies.
rogerroger917
Hall of Fame
Shroud
G.O.A.T.
Thats a great point. In cali I could always find someone to just hit with. Hit and hit and hit. Everyone here plays set. But one guy will hit. I should call him up.
Christian Olsson
Professional
bitcoinoperated
Professional
This is the battle many face. Win now by pushing/junk and limit your level (+have friends) or actually learn to hit with pace and hopefully learn to keep these in.
For me it is easy since I play for fun not winning at some nondescript level. Winning by pushing and junk is no fun and winning random matches at 3.5 are meaningless.
For me it is easy since I play for fun not winning at some nondescript level. Winning by pushing and junk is no fun and winning random matches at 3.5 are meaningless.
ByeByePoly
G.O.A.T.
When you find a good shrink ... ask for a ttw group discount.
You haven't been going to the court with a loaded gun have you?
You haven't been going to the court with a loaded gun have you?
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ChaelAZ
G.O.A.T.
You've embraced the TTPS method of junkballin', slice, and frying pan serves, eh?
Come back to AZ and you can have a session with Dr. Chael in the sweathouse. We'll hit balls, skip drinking water and talk to the tennis spirits as we come close to dehyrated death.
Shroud
G.O.A.T.
More like slicing everything. No frying pan serves though or hitting harder than NadalYou've embraced the TTPS method of junkballin', slice, and frying pan serves, eh?
Come back to AZ and you can have a session with Dr. Chael in the sweathouse. We'll hit balls, skip drinking water and talk to the tennis spirits as we come close to dehyrated death.
I would love to die with you but stuck in Fla
ByeByePoly
G.O.A.T.
You've embraced the TTPS method of junkballin', slice, and frying pan serves, eh?
Come back to AZ and you can have a session with Dr. Chael in the sweathouse. We'll hit balls, skip drinking water and talk to the tennis spirits as we come close to dehyrated death.
I never saw my sweat in Scottsdale
ChaelAZ
G.O.A.T.
I never saw my sweat in Scottsdale
Rich folks over there don't sweat. They pay other people to do it for them.
Come to the slums of Surprise and well get'ya sweating like a pig.
dunlop_fort_knox
Professional
if there is anything that gets me down in the dumps it is winning 6-2.
I like this advice, but you can also use the ball machine to practice 3d tennis. What really helped me to advance from 4.0 to 4.5 was making one decision. That decision was to really try to make 0 errors in a match. That season I went from about a 50% record to only losing my 1st match. I won every other singles match I played. What I was really lacking was not in my strokes it was the way I decided to play. Once I learned to move the ball around safely and hit defensively when I needed to it was very easy to move to 4.5.
So my advice for ball machine practice is to think 3 dimensionally. Practice different types of shots, including the slice. Hit high defensive loopers as well as flat drives and lobs. Work short angles off both wings, both flatter and loopier shots. Pretend you are trying to make the ball dive under a volleyer's racquet. Just figure out what tool you need the most and drill it. Then in your next match, make sure you use it as often as it makes sense to do so. Look for opportunities to employ each new tool. Once you can use it in a match then you own it.
ByeByePoly
G.O.A.T.
Rich folks over there don't sweat. They pay other people to do it for them.
Come to the slums of Surprise and well get'ya sweating like a pig.
We would leave from 90+ degrees high humidity sweating like pigs ... and get to Scottsdale and play 36 holes of golf the middle day sometimes 105+ ... and never see our sweat. We drank liquids all day long ... and never saw the sweat. Weird. We were all tennis players ... but only played golf on the trips. Just going by how we felt playing golf in that 105+ low humidity vs golf back home, I think the 105 would have been easier on us on the tennis court. We would go twice a year, March and September ... I remember September being the biatch!!!
OnTheLine
Hall of Fame
yup .... never see the sweat in the desert .... I think that is how it kills you .... one 90-120 minute match is usually close to 60 ounces of fluid .... and I am bone dry on the skin. But the salt crystals on the skin are pretty cool.
2nd Serve Ace
Hall of Fame
What league only plays 1 set?
TnsGuru
Professional
Maybe he meant 7-6, 6-2?
Steady Eddy
Legend
Anything can work if you do it well enough.
Drop shots and lobs work well for beginners, but people say, "That won't work later on." But one player had to do those shots as he learned the game. On his public court you had to win to stay on the court, so he had to do whatever helped him stay. His game became all based on 'touch' and he had no power. Still, he got good enough at it so that he became a world ranked player.
He even beat Rod Laver in the early 60's with that style. The slice went away for a while but then made a big time comeback. If you're already good at it, keep doing it. You'll only get better.
Drop shots and lobs work well for beginners, but people say, "That won't work later on." But one player had to do those shots as he learned the game. On his public court you had to win to stay on the court, so he had to do whatever helped him stay. His game became all based on 'touch' and he had no power. Still, he got good enough at it so that he became a world ranked player.
He even beat Rod Laver in the early 60's with that style. The slice went away for a while but then made a big time comeback. If you're already good at it, keep doing it. You'll only get better.
Nostradamus
Bionic Poster
Coming in and winning at net is hallmark of a good player. and you can improve from there much much easier than guy that hits junk balls from baselines and not missing and winning that way. Improve you serve by mixing placement, and spin. It can be done. Also work on the return of serve by really taking big cuts at the 2nd serves and going for the winners. You will be surprised how much it pressure that puts on your opponent.
Also work with light weight and resistance bands to improve your strength,,, that really really helps to improve your serves and believe or not spin and weight on your shots.
Shroud
G.O.A.T.
See, that is one of the issues. You say to take big cuts on the return. Thats how I like to play. Here is a fairly typical return game (except I only missed ONE) because yes i like to put the pressure on:
But the other day I just slice everything back like in this vid (though my slice is a bit better on the fh now:
See the difference?
I wasn't serving much differently than normal.
Nostradamus
Bionic Poster
you have to come in more. after hitting good returns, come to the net. and your footwork is not good. those are sloppy slices, they won't go in against good opponents that hit heavier topspin shots all the time
FuzzyYellowBalls
Legend
Shroud, so imagine on the slices there is a pile of leaves about two inches in front of your feet, every time you are blasting those leaves all over the court with a half circle sweep, would be interesting if you could change your slice motion to a more forward through the ball technique and have that imaginary pile of leaves remain untouched, then that slice would be more penetrating and maybe less embarrassing to you? That's something you could do to improve and still slice it. You can also run through the ball with a slice motion on the way to the net instead of stop....blast the leaves swing....then start forward.
Digital Atheist
Hall of Fame
Cashman
Hall of Fame
You're suffering from the affliction of most people who play exclusively on hardcourt and/or clay, by equating 'improving' with more effectively bashing topspin from the baseline. Slice and net-rushing is a totally legitimate part of the game. If you played most of your tennis on carpet or grass, it might even be the most important part of the game.
Maybe in your area, slice and netplay are marks of a negative and low level player - but where I live, there are a lot of extremely high level players who attack the net ruthlessly and hit a lot of slice. These are guys who are nationally ranked, and compete and win matches in money tournaments.
Don't get me wrong; when necessary, all good players should be able to hang from the baseline in a topspin rally - especially if they don't play on fast surfaces regularly. But there is nothing to be derided about mastering other elements of the sport. It is always to your benefit to have a few different tools in your utility belt.
Around here a lot of pair competitions are set up as 2x singles sets, 1x doubles set and 2x reverse singles sets.
Everyone plays 3 sets over 2-3 hours, and the tie is decided on best of five. It's kind of fun, and works well for a weeknight.
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Shroud, you don't need a shrink. You need a machinist. He can grind down your frames until they have something like reasonable static and swing weights. Your subconscious mind simply told you to swing down on everything because swinging up was just too damn much work! (Ok, perhaps I'm filling in for a shrink.)
leojramirez
Rookie
Thats because you seem to be too aggresive on your play and probably don't have the patience to hit one more ball and just take a cut at it to end the point.
The way my coach fixed me was first reduce racket weight (was playing 340g+) because I didn't have consistent movement on my forehand. The second was learning how to play on 3rd gear, and for that you need patience and practice rally with an opponent with an emphasis on not missing. Its also a great way to warm up and groove in, just focusing on putting the ball between the baseline and service line, then crosscourt control rallies on both wings. This helps a lot on consistency.
Enga
Hall of Fame
Maybe the court you were playing on rewards slicing? For sure the slice is a higher percentage option on low and slick surfaces. Forehand slices may look "ugly" but there is potential there to hit it even better than what is possible on the backhand side. It is totally possible to get better at the forehand slice.
Shroud
G.O.A.T.
More like this:
FWIW the slice these days and even the fh is more like this vid and not the old vid above. Where Shroud gets in trouble is that he is a general thinker and talks in concepts. Everyone seems to deal in specifics....
Shroud
G.O.A.T.
This was more that I was just missing all the topspin shots on the fh.
Agree about getting better. See this practice session:
ChaelAZ
G.O.A.T.
Maybe go heavier to create more drive on that slice.
Shroud
G.O.A.T.
Its true. I for one don't like baseline rallies much. So yes I try to end that quickly. You must be fast. When I get the ball back I always seem to run like crazy just to lose the points...
It is quite simple: if your topspin is not EFFECTIVE, it is less useful compared to a slice or dink. It is the great paradox of rec play. Either you make peace with it or not. That is why many older players laugh at modern tennis and topspin as they keep winning their matches with simple strokes.
Shroud
G.O.A.T.
Way ahead of you man. That win was the 3rd outing with my new blade. Yesterday I added 1g at 12pm and that seemed to help alot to stop the racquet from pulling through at contact
Shroud
G.O.A.T.
That was funny.
FWIW the new stick is around 355g so its quite lite. Hitting up shouldnt be an issue.
heninfan99
Talk Tennis Guru
Yeah I know what you mean but if you have "feel" & control you should use it. Whatever is required to win and get them to make errors. Fed slices a lot and now has embraced the drop shot. There some some pretty good baseliners that have no feel.
Digital Atheist
Hall of Fame
Awesome! I needed some positive news after the double tragedy of Monday morning (my time). I might have missed it, so my apologies in advance if this is a repeat, but dare I ask what your new blade is? So far we have the weight only; what about grip size, string type and tension, and balance?
