Why my slice doesn't jump?

nhat8121 · May 9, 2009

it's like a deep drop shot...

my slice hits the ground and just stops there waiting to get smacked...whereas others hit the ground and jump at you, making it harder to hit back. Not that it's all bad, having people generate their own power/spin is nice. Also, often strangers can get surprised as they wait for the ball to jump at them, but instead just stop dead. It's not a big or important problem as I do have many other things to work on, but it's a bit annoying.

some of the most effective slices come from a couple of old guys I recently rallied against. They play with some light oversized racquets...low slice or high slice...they hit the ground and jump toward you hard, it's nice. Maybe I should wait until I get older?

goober · May 9, 2009

Most likely you are chopping down on the ball so it sits up instead of hitting through it so it gets depth.

goober · May 9, 2009

Here's coaching tip from a website

Question:
My slice backhands are more like drop shots. How can I get more depth?
Slice is generated by hitting the ball high-to-low. Some players assume that this high-to-low action should match the steepness of a topspin stroke, but that's not the case. There is no need to chop at the ball. The steeper the downward angle of the stroke, the more backspin you create. A really steep action will produce so much backspin that it will effectively turn into a drop shot.

Apart from flattening out the swing, you can ensure better depth on your slice shots by:

i. using a continental grip

ii. using a closed stance, i.e. sideways on to the net

iii. keeping a fairly firm wrist

iv. aiming towards the top of the ball (as opposed to the bottom of it), avoiding a "dishing" action by cutting slightly downwards through the ball in the direction of your target

v. leaning your weight into the shot

vi. making sure you stay sideways throughout the stroke, swinging your non-racket hand out behind you

vii. watching videos of players like Martina Navratilova, Steffi Graf, Jana Novotna, Tim Henman, Roger Federer.

If none of the above corrects the problem, try using an eastern backhand grip.

jwr1972 · May 9, 2009

goober is spot on. You have to have plow through. You are most likely hitting up and the ball is clearing the net by several feet as opposed to a well struck, low slice that will tear through the court. Brush more side to side than under and you'll get better results.

J011yroger · May 9, 2009

Here, at 7:50 in this vid, my buddy hits a floating slice, and then I hit a skidding slice off of that ball. The difference is obvious.

http://vimeo.com/3514338

J

Nellie · May 9, 2009

To summarize and simplify, if you slice by scooping under the ball, it has no pace and will set up to be hit.

If you hit through the ball in a high to low path, but hit the ball pretty flush and hard, with the underspin coming from the path of the racquet, you get a skidding, fast shot.

nhat8121 · May 10, 2009

J011yroger said:
Here, at 7:50 in this vid, my buddy hits a floating slice, and then I hit a skidding slice off of that ball. The difference is obvious.

http://vimeo.com/3514338

J

yep, yep, i see it

you guys are all right, thanks

anyway, looks like a pause or something in your FH, but damn, what a beast FH

J011yroger · May 10, 2009

nhat8121 said:
yep, yep, i see it

you guys are all right, thanks

anyway, looks like a pause or something in your FH, but damn, what a beast FH

Ya, I know what is wrong with the FH. Workin on it. Going to be F'ing sick when it is 100%, cuz it is pretty impressive now

.

J

AndrewD · May 10, 2009

J011yroger said:
Here, at 7:50 in this vid, my buddy hits a floating slice, and then I hit a skidding slice off of that ball. The difference is obvious.

That's not a slice, it's a hack shot. A decent slice shot has the body side on and moving forward, through the ball. You've just wound up and hacked at the ball, which is why, when you do make contact, you're so open-chested. It's all arm, no body.

Carlito · May 10, 2009

I find a lot of people hit that bad slice you describe often because they have the racquet face too open at contact.

J011yroger · May 10, 2009

AndrewD said:
That's not a slice, it's a hack shot. A decent slice shot has the body side on and moving forward, through the ball. You've just wound up and hacked at the ball, which is why, when you do make contact, you're so open-chested. It's all arm, no body.

Unsure if you are trying to provoke a response or you actually believe that.

Either way, have a good one.

J

BorisBeckerFan · May 10, 2009

To Jolly Roger,

First of all I commend you for being brave enough to put up vidoes of yourself hitting. I certainly don't want people commenting on my strokes because they are certainly not there yet. I don't know how to say this nicely but I actually mean this as a compliment and not a insult. Your forehand mechanics are jacked yet you are getting great results. I saw alot of forehands with not only good pace but also good depth. Some I would even call heavy. I think it goes to show mechanics are important but you can still go out and play a mean game of tennis with out following one of the various commonly taught strokes. I know you said you were still working on it and I'd love to see it once you're happy with it. I'm hoping to get my act together soon and post a video of myself hitting.

J011yroger · May 10, 2009

Well I keep videoing so I can keep track of my progress for my own good.

Needless to say I was pretty surprised the first time I saw it on vid.

What happened was when I hurt my wrist very badly, I came back to playing too soon, and found a way to hit FHs that didn't hurt (as much). Because if I mistimed one I would literally fall to my knees with tears in my eyes. I couldn't hit a FH for 4 months, and for the first two weeks I couldn't turn the ignition key in cars, because it hurt too much. Couldn't turn a doorknob or drink coffee.

After a year or so, it was more or less healed, and I was hitting the crap out of the ball. But it looked like. . . that. Actually it was worse than that.

But you know, habits are hard to break, so I can hit properly in practice or easy drills if I concentrate, but if I get put under pressure, I go back to the old way.

But thanks to my partial German heritage I am too stubborn to stop working on it, and thanks to my partial Italian heritage I am too stupid to know that I am not any good at tennis.

And so little by little, with the help of my coach, and my video camera, and my friends, I get better and better, week by week.

Squaring it away is one of my 2 primary goals for 2009. Hopefully I will be somewhat content by the fall.

J

Swissv2 · May 10, 2009

J011yroger said:
Squaring it away is one of my 2 primary goals for 2009. Hopefully I will be somewhat content by the fall.

J

You get good pop on your hits. If it works for you, heck - doesn't matter what it looks like, eh? I say so long as you can produce good results, let the results stand. GL in your upcoming matches.

J011yroger · May 10, 2009

Swissv2 said:
You get good pop on your hits. If it works for you, heck - doesn't matter what it looks like, eh? I say so long as you can produce good results, let the results stand. GL in your upcoming matches.

It isn't about hitting hard, I have clocked FHs at 100+mph.

When I hit it properly I get more pace and spin, so I have a more punishing basic rally ball, and not just the blistering kill shot. And hitting it properly gives more margin for error in timing, cutting down errors, and allows me to hit more angle, Inside out, inside in, and from the center/fh side of the court.

When I am hitting it properly, I can take a (sitter) ball by the center hash mark on the baseline, and whip it off the court half way between the service line and the net, and into the side wall. And I can also pummel high balls. Neither of which I can do when I am hitting it improperly.

J

Rickson · May 10, 2009

J011y's bh slice is penetrating and it definitely doesn't die in place.

UnforcedError · May 10, 2009

J011yroger said:
Ya, I know what is wrong with the FH. Workin on it. Going to be F'ing sick when it is 100%, cuz it is pretty impressive now .

J

Are you serious? Too me it looks like you barely know where your FH is going to land. Are you guys rallying or playing points? If you are rallying it would help to real that FH in until you can consistently get them in. Most people playing matches have longer average rallies. I don't want to be too critical but you did post a video as a demonstration. Your forehand is a really odd looking stroke, it is good you know it needs work, it is bad you think it is pretty impressive as is.

J011yroger · May 11, 2009

Sorry for taking this thread off topic, I thought we could talk about slice.

I know I didn't help either by replying to the FH stuff.

There is another thread somewhere about how I suck, I would appreciate it if you did a search and posted in there.

I apologize to the OP.

J

Julieta · May 11, 2009

I agree with you, it seems like many of the older players have the best slices, or players from countries other than America. We just dont use this shot as much in the US. I learned it when I was young but I lost it over time. I wish I had used it more when I played. I wish I'd hit more drop shots too.

If you can develop it though it can really bother people. There was a girl at my college who played #1 and she had a wicked slice and she won a lot of matches with it. She just kept the ball low on people and worked them around until they lost their minds. To look at her game people always underestimated her. Her favorite thing was to slice low and short to their forehand. She was from a commonwealth country and it is my opinion that players who grew up on surfaces other than hard courts are a lot better at this shot. Therefore if you want to find a coach to help you I would seek out someone from another country or a senior player if the coach is American. I dont think the average american 30 year old pro can teach this as well as say someone from New Zealand or a 55+ player.

nhat8121 · May 11, 2009

do you grip your slice similar to your FH grip? by that I mean, in terms of your index finger...I don't mean the type of grip, but how you grip it. I don't know how to describe it clearly, hopefully you understand.

Maybe someone has a picture the correct slice grip?

AndrewD · May 12, 2009

J011yroger said:
Unsure if you are trying to provoke a response or you actually believe that.

Jolly,

It isn't a case of trying to provoke a response or being delusional (which is what you're inferrring). It is simply a case of pointing out something that is very obvious and that the OP would want to avoid doing.

smoothtennis · May 12, 2009

AndrewD said:
Jolly,

It isn't a case of trying to provoke a response or being delusional (which is what you're inferrring). It is simply a case of pointing out something that is very obvious and that the OP would want to avoid doing.

I don't think Jolly's intention was to demonstrate proper slice technique here - but rather to show the effect his ball had in driving through the court. The one he referenced drove through the court due to the sheer force he used with his rapid swing. Notice, the swing is so hard, he actually has to counter balance his left arm 'forward' vs. backward. But he does get the drive.

I would look to top slicing pro's for the body position through the stroke for technical details.

One great tip that can help learn to keep that body closed THROUGH the full stroke is to slice using the kareoke (sp?) step with the left foot. ie, you cross your left foot behind your right foot as you move forward into the stroke. This literally forces your body to stay closed and use your core to generate power.

BTW - this isn't a high quality vid, but this kid pretty much covers the details everyone here has given you -a good visual to help remember. Second half is the slice instruction.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_97sVUddOfI

J011yroger · May 12, 2009

AndrewD said:
Jolly,

It isn't a case of trying to provoke a response or being delusional (which is what you're inferrring). It is simply a case of pointing out something that is very obvious and that the OP would want to avoid doing.

Gotcha, I thought it was pretty obvious that my buddy coughed up a lame slice, and that I just laid into it to see how much skid I could get on the ball, not that it was a textbook rally or approach slice.

It was not my intention to come off like "This is me playing tennis, am I not magnificent?"

J

J011yroger · May 12, 2009

smoothtennis said:
using the kareoke (sp?) step

carioca

J

dennis10is · May 12, 2009

smoothtennis said:
One great tip that can help learn to keep that body closed THROUGH the full stroke is to slice using the kareoke (sp?) step with the left foot. ie, you cross your left foot behind your right foot as you move forward into the stroke. This literally forces your body to stay closed and use your core to generate power.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_97sVUddOfI

Asking for clarification: Is the back foot (the left foot for righties) cross behind used only during the learning process? or are you suggesting that the back foot cross back during actually play?

Thanks

smoothtennis · May 13, 2009

dennis10is said:
Asking for clarification: Is the back foot (the left foot for righties) cross behind used only during the learning process? or are you suggesting that the back foot cross back during actually play?

Thanks

Both actually - It can be used to learn until the feeling of the shot with the body positioned correctly is engrained. But certainly you wouldn't hit all your slices this way in match play.

However - this step is VERY useful and should be used when moving forward into the shot on an approach shot, or on an approaching volley. Pat Rafter used it beautifully at times.

dennis10is · May 13, 2009

smoothtennis said:
Both actually - It can be used to learn until the feeling of the shot with the body positioned correctly is engrained. But certainly you wouldn't hit all your slices this way in match play.

However - this step is VERY useful and should be used when moving forward into the shot on an approach shot, or on an approaching volley. Pat Rafter used it beautifully at times.

Thanks for the clarification. I'll try it.

J011yroger · May 13, 2009

dennis10is said:
Thanks for the clarification. I'll try it.

This. . . I have to see.

J

dennis10is · May 13, 2009

J011yroger said:
This. . . I have to see.

J

Do you think I have to wear my ballet shoes?

J011yroger · May 14, 2009

dennis10is said:
Do you think I have to wear my ballet shoes?

I would lend you a pair, but I don't think you would fit in my 13s

J

dennis10is · May 14, 2009

J011yroger said:
I would lend you a pair, but I don't think you would fit in my 13s

J

Maybe I'll use my MBT.

Why my slice doesn't jump?

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