AO R3: Rafael Nadal (ESP [2] vs. Philipp Kohlschreiber (GER) [27]

Who will win?

  • Nadal in 3

    Votes: 9 23.7%

  • Nadal in 4

    Votes: 19 50.0%

  • Nadal in 5

    Votes: 2 5.3%

  • Kohlschreiber in 3

    Votes: 4 10.5%

  • Kohlschreiber in 4

    Votes: 1 2.6%

  • Kohlschreiber in 5

    Votes: 3 7.9%
  • Total voters
    38
D

dropshot winner

Hall of Fame
TennisandMusic said:
For him it was bad. Losing at Madrid wasn't so bad aside from playing kinda crappy, but his most recent results at the FO were quite bad for him. Also his play in earlier events, even though he won, was not that great. It was plainly visible he wasn't playing as well as he did in 2008. And he lost a ton of points during the clay season because of RG...

And yeah, that's what I'm saying I am seeing his decline right here and now. So of course his results in the future compared to the past will be horrendous. Right? That's the point.

You guys have to stop looking at past results or thinking that things are static. Of course Nadal played awesome in the past. But that doesn't mean anything at all now. Unless something drastically changes the Nadal that some people love is just gone.
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No it wasn't.

He won 19 matches and 3 tournaments in a row at the beginning of the clay season before he lost a close match to Federer in Madrid. That's not bad at all.

Not his best clay season obviously, but far from a bad one. If not for Soderling he would've won RG too.
 
T

TennisandMusic

Guest
dropshot winner said:
No it wasn't.

He won 19 matches and 3 tournaments in a row at the beginning of the clay season before he lost a close match to Federer in Madrid. That's not bad at all.

Not his best clay season obviously, but far from a bad one. If not for Soderling he would've won RG too.
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No I don't think he would have. He wasn't able to move. Plenty of better players could have beaten him with how he was moving and what he was hitting. It was obvious in the first set he was going to lose because of how he was playing, but he has never really fully gotten back to his 2008 form.

Last year was his worst clay season since he started playing RG. Period. The early results were not bad, but it was evident he was playing worse during those events. This is the crux of the whole thing. Worse on clay, more injuries, getting creamed left and right on hard court...This is not 2008/early 2009 where he was beating everyone on every surface. Now he is losing to everyone. How many wins against top 10 players does he have recently vs. his losses?

Look at the results...

Look at the quality of play...

It's all pointing in a certain direction at the moment.
 
D

dropshot winner

Hall of Fame
TennisandMusic said:
Well Federer and Nadal are easily two of the best players to ever play the game, and (I know this pisses off so many people but...) their competition hasn't been superb or anything in general. But that's changing I think.

Kinda interesting that so many here are quite upset at the suggestion that he could be on his downward slide. Do you guys really think he will be 1 or 2 for the next 2 or 3 years? Seriously? I wouldn't be surprised at all if both Federer and Nadal finish outside of the top 2 this year.
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Federer has been getting worse for a while, he's still right there with the best because he keeps improving his serve, his tactics and his ability to hang in matches.

Nadal on the other hand is getting figuered out in a way.
Wilander phrased that very well on Eurosport. Basically every match Nadal plays is the same, people try to play him like Soderling did.
Lower ranked player often hit errors and not much else, but others can really trouble Nadal that way.
 
T

TennisandMusic

Guest
dropshot winner said:
Federer has been getting worse for a while, he's still right there with the best because he keeps improving his serve, his tactics and his ability to hang in matches.

Nadal on the other hand is getting figuered out in a way.
Wilander phrased that very well on Eurosport. Basically every match Nadal plays is the same, people try to play him like Soderling did.
Lower ranked player often hit errors and not much else, but others can really trouble Nadal that way.
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Sure, Federer is offensive and can win more as a result, even when he's "off". When Nadal starts sucking and playing his overly defensive game he can get blown off the court now. But it's just because his play and physicality has dropped (age).

Nadal keeps saying he has to play more aggressive but he doesn't do it. I just don't see him doing what he's doing at 25 and being nearly as effective at 21 or 22. He simply has to go back to the 2008 style to be a factor in the future. This is all IMO of course, but I don't say it based on nothing.
 
D

dropshot winner

Hall of Fame
TennisandMusic said:
No I don't think he would have. He wasn't able to move. Plenty of better players could have beaten him with how he was moving and what he was hitting. It was obvious in the first set he was going to lose because of how he was playing, but he has never really fully gotten back to his 2008 form.

Last year was his worst clay season since he started playing RG. Period. The early results were not bad, but it was evident he was playing worse during those events. This is the crux of the whole thing. Worse on clay, more injuries, getting creamed left and right on hard court...This is not 2008/early 2009 where he was beating everyone on every surface. Now he is losing to everyone. How many wins against top 10 players does he have recently vs. his losses?

Look at the results...

Look at the quality of play...

It's all pointing in a certain direction at the moment.
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Only Federer (unlikly) and Del Potro (who was in Federer's half) would've had a chance.

Nadal played very solid against Hewitt, the reason is simple. Hewitt can't hit 100mph from both sides and serve 135 mph over and over, and most others can't do that either.
Don't forget that Nadal could've lost to Mathieu in RG 2006, and Mathieu's game isn't even close to Soderling's at his best. Hewitt also gave Nadal a very tough 4-set match in RG a few years ago.

I don't think we'll ever see the 08 Nadal for a long period of time again. He can't keep that level up physically, no one can.
 
T

TennisandMusic

Guest
dropshot winner said:
Only Federer (unlikly) and Del Potro (who was in Federer's half) would've had a chance.

Nadal played very solid against Hewitt, the reason is simple. Hewitt can't hit 100mph from both sides and serve 135 mph over and over, and most others can't do that either.
Don't forget that Nadal could've lost to Mathieu in RG 2006, and Mathieu's game isn't even close to Soderling's at his best. Hewitt also gave Nadal a very tough 4-set match in RG a few years ago.

I don't think we'll ever see the 08 Nadal for a long period of time again. He can't keep that level up physically, no one can.
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But it wasn't just about the movement in 2008, it was about the shot making. He just doesn't make the shots anymore, or hit the serves. Did you see his serving tonight? Freakin atrocious...but why?

Kinda funny you bring up Hewitt when I use him as my example of someone who has completely fallen off because of his reliance on his fitness. I mean Hewitt was getting bossed around by Donald Young at times yesterday. Hewitt in your draw for a top player is just someone to beat up on now. Plus Hewitt respects Nadal way too much, especially on clay. That was destined for a beating. And wasn't that the only clean match he had? I thought he had some close ones before that, even if they were 3 or 4 sets.

Remember Nadal lost that match to the qualifier dude before RG. It wasn't a fluke.
 
D

dropshot winner

Hall of Fame
TennisandMusic said:
Sure, Federer is offensive and can win more as a result, even when he's "off". When Nadal starts sucking and playing his overly defensive game he can get blown off the court now. But it's just because his play and physicality has dropped (age).

Nadal keeps saying he has to play more aggressive but he doesn't do it. I just don't see him doing what he's doing at 25 and being nearly as effective at 21 or 22. He simply has to go back to the 2008 style to be a factor in the future. This is all IMO of course, but I don't say it based on nothing.
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Nadal is 23!
His problem is that he has abused his body for 5-6 years already.

His "2008 style" was basically be stronger and hit harder. He won and won, giving him nearly endless confidence, as a result he was confident enough to play a bit closer to the baseline and his harder hitting resulted in flatter, more penetrating forehands.

But another reason which a lot of Nadal fans don't want to hear is that his opponents very often gave up after 20 minutes, this allowed Nadal to play a lot more offensive than he usually does (easy to do when you don't feel threatened).

Another thing that Wilander said is that 2010 is the first season where Nadal has added nothing new to his game. And in sports when you stand still, you fall behind.
 
T

TennisandMusic

Guest
Anyway, I am a little tired of talking about it. Plenty of people disagree and that's fine, I hope they are right. I would like to see another 2-3 years at least of Nadal on the top of the game, but I just don't see it whatsoever.

We will see what happens. I predict he will start losing earlier and earlier in these tournaments.
 
Blinkism

Blinkism

Legend
I thought that there was enough positives from the way Rafa came back in the 4th set. He hit a few passing shots that were not dissimilar to shots he'd hit in the past few years. Also, it was encouraging to see Nadal adjust to the situation by putting more first serves in and not dumping so many FH's into the net.

I don't think Rafa could ask for a better 4th round opponent than Karlovic, actually. For one, it'll force Rafa to tighten the screws on his own serve and will put him in a good service rhythm.

That is, if he beats Karlovic, it will.

If Nadal can't beat Karlovic then he was never really a contender for the Australian Open title in the first place, was he? Not that Karlovic is a bad player, but Nadal should be beating him.
 
abmk

abmk

Bionic Poster
nadal's game and mental game has declined a bit, he's getting figured out , but he's far from being done
 
T

TennisandMusic

Guest
dropshot winner said:
Nadal is 23!
His problem is that he has abused his body for 5-6 years already.

His "2008 style" was basically be stronger and hit harder. He won and won, giving him nearly endless confidence, as a result he was confident enough to play a bit closer to the baseline and his harder hitting resulted in flatter, more penetrating forehands.

But another reason which a lot of Nadal fans don't want to hear is that his opponents very often gave up after 20 minutes, this allowed Nadal to play a lot more offensive than he usually does (easy to do when you don't feel threatened).

Another thing that Wilander said is that 2010 is the first season where Nadal has added nothing new to his game. And in sports when you stand still, you fall behind.
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Federer hasn't added anything to his game for ages. He wins plenty of matches on name alone.

Yes Nadal is 23, but he is 24 this year and he has been at the top of the game almost as long as Federer. Federer came into the top pretty much in 2004 (and this is when Nadal started beating Federer, remember), and Nadal rose to the top in 2005, even if largely by clay. But you are still talking one year of difference. The best tennis players usually enjoy AT MOST 6-7 years of good tennis. Federer is already there, and obviously playing worse than the past. So is Nadal. It's just natural. Since Nadal's game is still predicated so much on his physicality it is only natural he will be less effective at a younger age, that is exactly my point. He keeps saying he needs to be more aggressive, but he's not. So I don't see how he can keep going.

Can someone who is saying I am wrong explain to me how he will stay on top of the game at 24 or 25 with worse movement, more injuries and a continued reliance on his defensive style?

Also about "abusing the body..." Let's get rid of hard courts then. Look at Borg. Fast and as heck and ran non stop, but never had the problems Nadal did. He was still rocking when he just burned out at 25. But then again he wasn't pounding his body on rock hard concrete at a year round schedule was he? Hard to blame the best athletes for being what they are. It's just the stupid surfaces that make it so much worse.
 
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C

Clydey2times

Hall of Fame
Blinkism said:
I thought that there was enough positives from the way Rafa came back in the 4th set. He hit a few passing shots that were not dissimilar to shots he'd hit in the past few years. Also, it was encouraging to see Nadal adjust to the situation by putting more first serves in and not dumping so many FH's into the net.

I don't think Rafa could ask for a better 4th round opponent than Karlovic, actually. For one, it'll force Rafa to tighten the screws on his own serve and will put him in a good service rhythm.

That is, if he beats Karlovic, it will.

If Nadal can't beat Karlovic then he was never really a contender for the Australian Open title in the first place, was he? Not that Karlovic is a bad player, but Nadal should be beating him.
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You're hilarious. If Murray had been involved in such a close match, you would be criticising him like there's no tomorrow.
 
abmk

abmk

Bionic Poster
TennisandMusic said:
Federer hasn't added anything to his game for ages. He wins plenty of matches on name alone.
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1. his game is more complete than rafa's . Has more varied weapons to counter different styles of players

2. his serve has gotten more potent , when on ; though consistency has lessened a bit. Also he's begun incorporating drop shots more into his game, esp on clay


TennisandMusic said:
Also about "abusing the body..." Let's get rid of hard courts then. Look at Borg. Fast and as heck and ran non stop, but never had the problems Nadal did. He was still rocking when he just burned out at 25. But then again he wasn't pounding his body on rock hard concrete at a year round schedule was he? Hard to blame the best athletes for being what they are. It's just the stupid surfaces that make it so much worse.
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1. borg did have his share of injury problems.

2. as far as rafa and HC is concerned, no one asked him to play rotterdam,tokyo, etc and doubles ...
 
D

dropshot winner

Hall of Fame
TennisandMusic said:
Federer hasn't added anything to his game for ages. He wins plenty of matches on name alone.

Yes Nadal is 23, but he is 24 this year and he has been at the top of the game almost as long as Federer. Federer came into the top pretty much in 2004 (and this is when Nadal started beating Federer, remember), and Nadal rose to the top in 2005, even if largely by clay. But you are still talking one year of difference. The best tennis players usually enjoy AT MOST 6-7 years of good tennis. Federer is already there, and obviously playing worse than the past. So is Nadal. It's just natural. Since Nadal's game is still predicated so much on his physicality it is only natural he will be less effective at a younger age, that is exactly my point. He keeps saying he needs to be more aggressive, but he's not. So I don't see how he can keep going.

Can someone who is saying I am wrong explain to me how he will stay on top of the game at 24 or 25 with worse movement, more injuries and a continued reliance on his defensive style?
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Federer could always do pretty much everything, what do you want him to add? A two-handed backhand? :D

Federer made the dropshot from a almost never used shot (in his game) to one that allowed him to beat Nadal in Madrid and win RG.

Tactically Federer has changed too, he's playing a lot more to his opponents weaknesses these days.

Also, Nadal isn't really moving worse, maybe not as good as during the best 3-month span of his career, but still as good as anyone. You make it sound as if he limps around the court unable to chase down anything.
 
D

dropshot winner

Hall of Fame
TennisandMusic said:
Also about "abusing the body..." Let's get rid of hard courts then. Look at Borg. Fast and as heck and ran non stop, but never had the problems Nadal did. He was still rocking when he just burned out at 25. But then again he wasn't pounding his body on rock hard concrete at a year round schedule was he? Hard to blame the best athletes for being what they are. It's just the stupid surfaces that make it so much worse.
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The reason why Nadal suffers all those injuries on hardcourt is his pounding footwork and the fact that he plays so many long points (on both serve and return).

Federer, Murray and Djokovic don't seem to suffer those kind of injuries.
 
B

bolo

G.O.A.T.
dropshot winner said:
But another reason which a lot of Nadal fans don't want to hear is that his opponents very often gave up after 20 minutes
Another thing that Wilander said is that 2010 is the first season where Nadal has added nothing new to his game. And in sports when you stand still, you fall behind.
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"very often"? Not very likely.

Yes wilander is correct, last year was the first year where nadal has not added anything. He has fallen behind on hard courts. We will see if he has lost ground on the other surfaces.
 
D

dropshot winner

Hall of Fame
bolo said:
"very often"? Not very likely.

Yes wilander is correct, last year was the first year where nadal has not added anything. He has fallen behind on hard courts. We will see if he has lost ground on the other surfaces.
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It happened in the early rounds of pretty much every tournament, I'd call that pretty often.

That's how it is when you play so well, players tend to overerstimate you and make stupid decision on the big points or don't even believe in a win before having lost a set.
It wasn't that much different when Federer was at his best.
 
C

CMM

Legend
RAFAEL NADAL

THE MODERATOR: Questions, please.


Q. How have you pulled up after that long match?

RAFAEL NADAL: Well, the most important thing is I won, so I happy for that. I am less happy about my game, what I was practicing.

But, yeah, you know, everybody have not very good days. I think I played much better the fourth set than the rest of the sets. The second sets, few moments I played well, too. But the first set and the third, I played bad.

Yeah, I need to play a little bit more aggressive for next matches.


Q. Anything in particular you think you need to work on?

RAFAEL NADAL: Just play a little bit more aggressive, play a little bit longer with the forehand and backhand, and that's it, yeah. Play more aggressive and longer; everything is easier like that.


Q. He seemed to attack your serve, especially your second serve. Are you worried about that?

RAFAEL NADAL: No. I was serving 145, 150 lot of times. So is not bad second serve. A lot of players, when play against the top players, play more aggressive than usual. So is nothing to do about that, no?

The balls, if they are with confidence, the ball goes in, like few moments today for Phillipp, is difficult to stop. Is difficult at the same time do this thing all the match.


Q. How was your confidence tonight?

RAFAEL NADAL: I think I started slow. I started little bit slower than usual. Later I save lot of breakpoints in the first set. First set I didn't feel playing really well. But after that I played much better the second. And in the third I started terrible, no?

I had big chance with Love‑40 to break back. If I did, yeah, that was very important game in the third, no? And in the fourth, he played well, and I think I played much better.


Q. Does that match help you going into the rest of the tournament, that you improved?

RAFAEL NADAL: I hope so. You never know, no? You never know. I hope so.

I am ready to play well, but I have to wait.


Q. What about your next opponent, Karlovic? How do you approach that match?

RAFAEL NADAL: Always a really difficult opponent, no, because the match is decides in a few points. So the thing is very be concentrate with my serve all the time and try to convert the small opportunities that I can have on the return. That's it.


Q. Did the heat affect you at all? Do you prefer playing earlier?

RAFAEL NADAL: Doesn't matter for me. I happy with everything.


Q. Do you spend time tomorrow analyzing this match or do you immediately look at the next one? What do you take from it as you move on?

RAFAEL NADAL: No, analyze this match today. Tomorrow is practice and try to practice well to get good confidence for the next match, no? I talk with my coach already in the locker room. Maybe we will talk a little bit more later. But that's it. Tomorrow is another day.


Q. What level do you think you need to get to feel confident? Do you need to beat a top-10 player again?

RAFAEL NADAL: Top-10 player again? What do you say?


Q. What do you need to accomplish to get your confidence? What kind of level of player do you have to beat before you are fully confident again?

RAFAEL NADAL: I am confident. The season is long anyway. If I lost here next round, I gonna have a chances to play well during all the season. So Australian Open is very important tournament, but is not the end of the world.

You have a lot of time to get your full confidence, to play well. So I am there all the weeks fighting, try my best. When you are there all the time, finally you do.


Q. You played some amazing shots tonight. The volley after the pickup, some running passing shots. Do you surprise yourself sometimes with your shots?

RAFAEL NADAL: Well, yes, no? Few ones, no? The forehands, surely I surprise. But I like this shot, running with the passing shot with my forehand. But, yes, the point that give me the second set, outside the net, yes, was one of the best forehands in my life probably.


Q. Who chose your orange shirt?

RAFAEL NADAL: Myself and Nike.


Q. Do people like it? Have you had good feedback about it?

RAFAEL NADAL: You can ask the people.
 
B

bolo

G.O.A.T.
dropshot winner said:
It happened in the early rounds of pretty much every tournament, I'd call that pretty often.
But that's what happens when you play so well, players tend to overerstimate you.
It wasn't that much different when Federer was at his best.
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Maybe on clay in 2008. But not on the other surfaces. Certainly not at queens in 2008 (a couple of 3 setters early and close matches after) and not during 08 hard court tournaments (lost sets to gulbis and other players in the early part of those 08 tournaments, had a tough 1st round match versus the fast phau at the US open). In early 2009 he lost early to monfils in doha. After the australian he had tough early round matches in rotterdam (a couple of 3 setters). "Very Often give up after 20 min. pretty much every tournament" doesn't describe the facts very well.
 
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bolo

G.O.A.T.
Wilander also made another observation that I liked. Nadal hasn't had tape on his knees for a long while now. We all noticed it when nadal came back, but it was pretty startling when wilander mentioned it again in the lacko broadcast. Nice. :)
 
kOaMaster

kOaMaster

Hall of Fame
I think not only Federer's game has changed but also the entire game. Roddick for example plays completely different than in 2003, I would even say he plays more "the Federer way".
Baseline tennis is not "standing on baselines" but now standing 1-3m behind the baseline. watch some older matches where federer hit all those winners - you don't see that often today but not because federer's shots changed, also because the opponents do change their game. hanescu was a little bit one of those "old" players I had the impression.
nadal brought in again a boost in the topspin-play I think - did you watch how federer tried to play a lot more with topspin than flat balls?
also I change I think is federer's 2nd serve. he realised that it doesn't help if you have only 1 or 2 DF in a whole match but a less damaging 2nd serve. he more often goes on the lines, taking some risk and now has a couple of DF more, but in general a better ratio.

(by the way, I disagree with Federer becoming top in 2004. It was when he won Wimbledon 2003. From that moment on, he ruled.)
 
Sartorius

Sartorius

Hall of Fame
CMM said:
RAFAEL NADAL

THE MODERATOR: Questions, please.


Q. How have you pulled up after that long match?

RAFAEL NADAL: Well, the most important thing is I won, so I happy for that. I am less happy about my game, what I was practicing.

But, yeah, you know, everybody have not very good days. I think I played much better the fourth set than the rest of the sets. The second sets, few moments I played well, too. But the first set and the third, I played bad.

Yeah, I need to play a little bit more aggressive for next matches.


Q. Anything in particular you think you need to work on?

RAFAEL NADAL: Just play a little bit more aggressive, play a little bit longer with the forehand and backhand, and that's it, yeah. Play more aggressive and longer; everything is easier like that.
Click to expand...

Good to see Rafa being "less happy" with his game, because I personally think that Rafa was overall very unimpressive today. In fact, call me crazy but this match and some portions of his previous matches here in AO reminds me of his play in WTF last year, except the serve. Most of the time his groundstrokes lack a lot of zip and power, and as he mentions in that interview, they land really short on the court. Especially the timing on his forehand seems quite off at times, and while his backhand actually looks even more impressive than his forehand sometimes, in today's match it often seemed shaky; in the end there were a lot of uncharacteristic mistakes and, even more alarmingly I would say, balls that just sit up for the opponent to take control of the rally. Occasionally I thought Rafa was making Kohli look a little better than he actually was today.

And it's sort of bizarre because a couple of weeks back, even though he didn't face tough competition until the final, his shots seemed different, much more explosive and much more deep.
 
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NamRanger

G.O.A.T.
TennisandMusic said:
Federer hasn't added anything to his game for ages. He wins plenty of matches on name alone.

Yes Nadal is 23, but he is 24 this year and he has been at the top of the game almost as long as Federer. Federer came into the top pretty much in 2004 (and this is when Nadal started beating Federer, remember), and Nadal rose to the top in 2005, even if largely by clay. But you are still talking one year of difference. The best tennis players usually enjoy AT MOST 6-7 years of good tennis. Federer is already there, and obviously playing worse than the past. So is Nadal. It's just natural. Since Nadal's game is still predicated so much on his physicality it is only natural he will be less effective at a younger age, that is exactly my point. He keeps saying he needs to be more aggressive, but he's not. So I don't see how he can keep going.

Can someone who is saying I am wrong explain to me how he will stay on top of the game at 24 or 25 with worse movement, more injuries and a continued reliance on his defensive style?

Also about "abusing the body..." Let's get rid of hard courts then. Look at Borg. Fast and as heck and ran non stop, but never had the problems Nadal did. He was still rocking when he just burned out at 25. But then again he wasn't pounding his body on rock hard concrete at a year round schedule was he? Hard to blame the best athletes for being what they are. It's just the stupid surfaces that make it so much worse.
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Hardcourts are the most neutral of all surfaces and will never be phased out (especially the slow HCs). They offer a good advantage to both attackers and defenders, and generally produces the least error free tennis (resulting usually in the best tennis).
 
ksbh

ksbh

Banned
Very unimpressive play but yet Rafa wins in 4 sets! He'll get his game together. His prospects are looking very good at this point.
 
West Coast Ace

West Coast Ace

G.O.A.T.
NamRanger said:
Hardcourts are the most neutral of all surfaces and will never be phased out (especially the slow HCs). They offer a good advantage to both attackers and defenders, and generally produces the least error free tennis (resulting usually in the best tennis).
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Amen. In addition to being less expensive to construct and maintain. Anyone who wants tennis to go back to being a sport for the rich only, should want to see the pro tours go back to grass and clay.

Rafa did himself in. When I heard 8 hrs on court pounding balls - after he had made it to the top - I lost my sympathy for his health problems. Train smarter, not harder.
 
B

bolo

G.O.A.T.
ruerooo said:
He did it in the semis last year against Verdasco. It's not like we haven't seen it before.
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On repeat viewings it wasn't as much as a hail mary as I first thought (took it at his ankle instead of at his foot) but it was still a lot more complicated than the shot he hit last year. :)
 
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P_Agony

P_Agony

Banned
This was surprisingly a low quality match. There were moments of greatness from both players, but both made too many errors and it was shocking. I remember there games where point after point was ended by an unforced error. Both also hit the ball too short, it was really surprising. PK did well to stay there mentally but I still think he should have played better and take bigger atvantage of Nadal's somewhat low form.
 
VamosRafa10

VamosRafa10

Rookie
P_Agony said:
This was surprisingly a low quality match. There were moments of greatness from both players, but both made too many errors and it was shocking. I remember there games where point after point was ended by an unforced error. Both also hit the ball too short, it was really surprising. PK did well to stay there mentally but I still think he should have played better and take bigger atvantage of Nadal's somewhat low form.
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I agree. There were a few bright sparks(nadals incredible banana shot) but just when the match was getting going both players made a lot of unforced errors.The type of match that would look awesome in the highlights
 
L

Ledigs

Legend
West Coast Ace said:
Amen. In addition to being less expensive to construct and maintain. Anyone who wants tennis to go back to being a sport for the rich only, should want to see the pro tours go back to grass and clay.

Rafa did himself in. When I heard 8 hrs on court pounding balls - after he had made it to the top - I lost my sympathy for his health problems. Train smarter, not harder.
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Borg was happy just reigning in clay courts. Nadal wants to be top on all surfaces and if he wants to do that it's up to him, whether or not it shortens his career.
 
TheMusicLover

TheMusicLover

G.O.A.T.
P_Agony said:
This was surprisingly a low quality match. There were moments of greatness from both players, but both made too many errors and it was shocking. I remember there games where point after point was ended by an unforced error. Both also hit the ball too short, it was really surprising. PK did well to stay there mentally but I still think he should have played better and take bigger atvantage of Nadal's somewhat low form.
Click to expand...

Spot-on.
Kohlschreiber showed the correct tactics but failed in the execution, and Nadal is still nowhere near his form of last year's AO.
 
djokovicgonzalez2010

djokovicgonzalez2010

G.O.A.T.
Kohl was mentally poor (Nadal seems to have that affect) Something scary 4 Nadal fans no one has picked up on: His biggest issue today was RETURNING. Think about his next opponent and his chances there.
 
TheMusicLover

TheMusicLover

G.O.A.T.
Ledigs said:
Do you think he is afraid to run too hard?
Click to expand...

I wish he were just a bit more afraid to spoil his knees! I saw him running after quite a few balls that were really unchaseable in this match, I think it would be better if he just let those go at times.
 
Dimension

Dimension

Professional
Seems like Rafa has taken his game up a notch compared to the last 2 matches. A bit more reminiscent of his form in 2008/early 2009. But there is still a distance from getting there. I think he is really gearing himself up as the tourney progresses, which is a great thing.

I noticed even when Rafa was winning in several games in last set, he wasn't playing great and Uncle Toni noticed it (with a worrie look on his face). But towards the end Rafa played a bit better again, which I guess took some pressure off Uncle Toni when he jumped up on several occassions.

He was also making unusual number of UEs in the last 3 matches (possibly still trying to find his touch still?) When he faces against Ivo, he has to reduce the number of UE made and come up with more penetrating power shots. The same goes against Murray/Isner. I have faith he will be able to step up and conquer these challenges.
 
TheMusicLover

TheMusicLover

G.O.A.T.
Dimension said:
Seems like Rafa has taken his game up a notch compared to the last 2 matches. A bit more reminiscent of his form in 2008/early 2009. But there is still a distance from getting there. I think he is really gearing himself up as the tourney progresses, which is a great thing.

I noticed even when Rafa was winning in several games in last set, he wasn't playing great and Uncle Toni noticed it (with a worrie look on his face). But towards the end Rafa played a bit better again, which I guess took some pressure off Uncle Toni when he jumped up on several occassions.

He was also making unusual number of UEs in the last 3 matches (possibly still trying to find his touch still?) When he faces against Ivo, he has to reduce the number of UE made and come up with more penetrating power shots. The same goes against Murray/Isner. I have faith he will be able to step up and conquer these challenges.
Click to expand...

Let's hope so. Karlovic should be doable for him without too much trouble, same thing with Isner. Murray... well I think he'll really have to step it up for a bit. Unless Murray keeps on serving badly and playing his passive pusher-game for the most, of course. I wouldn't mind it if he does.
 
djokovicgonzalez2010

djokovicgonzalez2010

G.O.A.T.
Dimension said:
Seems like Rafa has taken his game up a notch compared to the last 2 matches. A bit more reminiscent of his form in 2008/early 2009. But there is still a distance from getting there. I think he is really gearing himself up as the tourney progresses, which is a great thing.

I noticed even when Rafa was winning in several games in last set, he wasn't playing great and Uncle Toni noticed it (with a worrie look on his face). But towards the end Rafa played a bit better again, which I guess took some pressure off Uncle Toni when he jumped up on several occassions.

He was also making unusual number of UEs in the last 3 matches (possibly still trying to find his touch still?) When he faces against Ivo, he has to reduce the number of UE made and come up with more penetrating power shots. The same goes against Murray/Isner. I have faith he will be able to step up and conquer these challenges.
Click to expand...

As I said above, the serve return was bad vs. Kohl and that will be a HUGE problem against the Doctor.

Hard to choose:
Rafa- Like style of play, hate personality
Doctor- Hate style of play, like personality. Think I'm going w/ Ivo
 
Dimension

Dimension

Professional
TheMusicLover said:
Let's hope so. Karlovic should be doable for him without too much trouble, same thing with Isner. Murray... well I think he'll really have to step it up for a bit. Unless Murray keeps on serving badly and playing his passive pusher-game for the most, of course. I wouldn't mind it if he does.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't mind either. :)
 
Dimension

Dimension

Professional
djokovicgonzalez2010 said:
As I said above, the serve return was bad vs. Kohl and that will be a HUGE problem against the Doctor.

Hard to choose:
Rafa- Like style of play, hate personality
Doctor- Hate style of play, like personality. Think I'm going w/ Ivo
Click to expand...

Kohl was having a very solid serving day yesterday throughout most of the match. Of course, Nadal did struggle a bit on the serve return, he could have done better. I can see Nadal stepping up (he has done that on many occassions) and taking out Ivo is 3 to 4 sets.
 
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