Toni: Djokovic is Better Than us

C

celoft

Guest
It's all about mileage, folks.

Nadal has played many more matches than Nole.
 
BULLZ1LLA

BULLZ1LLA

Banned
(Toni is the greatest genius in tennis history. This sounds like how he used to talk about Federer! It's brilliant :D!)
 
Clarky21

Clarky21

Banned
He is right. Nadal is done,as I have been saying for a while now,and Toni pretty much just admitted it.
 
C

CDestroyer

Professional
celoft said:
It's all about mileage, folks.

Nadal has played many more matches than Nole.
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Good point.

If we are talking car metaphors Nadals got about a million miles, transmission is very shaky and his engine needs to be rebuilt.

Meanwhile Nole has about 350 thousand miles and is running in peak shape, mentally fresh as a new oil and filter change.

Mr Goodwrench out.
 
T

TMF

Talk Tennis Guru
At 25, Nadal has played some 600 matches, still far below 1,000. Past players have played 1000+ matches, so Nadal still has a lot left in the gas tank.

Toni is just downplaying his nephew's chances in case if he's not winning, as usual. Too chicken to admit the truth.
 
Clarky21

Clarky21

Banned
BULLZ1LLA said:
(You are just too easy for Toni.... Let's hope Nadal is just a gullible, because that is what Toni is hoping...)
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Toni practically runs Nadal's life,so I can bet you he probably believes the same way Toni does. He looks like he would rather be anywhere but on a tennis court,so I am sure that Toni's comments are not too far from the truth.
 
BULLZ1LLA

BULLZ1LLA

Banned
Clarky21 said:
Toni practically runs Nadal's life,so I can bet you he probably believes the same way Toni does. He looks like he would rather be anywhere but on a tennis court,so I am sure that Toni's comments are not too far from the truth.
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(Good. The sooner Nadal treats Djokovic like a God [as he did with Federer] the sooner the 16-12 h2h will increase to 20-12 in 2012)
 
B

BeHappy

Hall of Fame
Nadal always says the other guy is better to take the pressure off himself. He said Michael Russel was he favorite in their Wimbledon first round match didn't he?
 
MichaelNadal

MichaelNadal

Bionic Poster
I think Nadal's career depends on what happens in 2012. I do NOT see him as a guy that would stick around while losing to people he knows he should beat or in the south end of the top 10. If he has a good year I expect him to stay. If he doesn't win a major, I think 2013 will be it for him, if not the end of 2012.
 
TennisFan3

TennisFan3

Talk Tennis Guru
Toni is saying exactly what a lot of us have been saying. The part about 7 yrs being on top has been said adnauseum by Namelessone, I and several others..

Nadal was already declining, but the rise of Djokovic has further accelerated and exacerbated this. Obviously it's easier to continue if you win, but right now Nadal has nothing to push himself and nothing to feel good about.

Basically, if he doesn't do much in Wimb/F.O 2012, I think he will probably call it a day shortly after.

Of course that will make many people happy here, nonetheless, it will be a loss for tennis in general. Especially if Fed also quits in the next couple of yrs or so.
 
namelessone

namelessone

Legend
TennisFan3 said:
Toni is saying exactly what a lot of us have been saying. The part about 7 yrs being on top has been said adnauseum by Namelessone, I and several others..

Nadal was already declining, but the rise of Djokovic has further accelerated and exacerbated this. Obviously it's easier to continue if you win, but right now Nadal has nothing to push himself and nothing to feel good about.

Basically, if he doesn't do much in Wimb/F.O 2012, I think he will probably call it a day shortly after.

Of course that will make many people happy here, nonetheless, it will be a loss for tennis in general. Especially if Fed also quits in the next couple of yrs or so.
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Don't worry, the trolls will not follow logic.

Nice to see Tony telling it like it is. One thing I always liked about him, his brutal honesty.

As I said before, Fed, with the easiest game on the body in modern history(no retirements in his career and very few ailments overall), started declining in his 7th consecutive year winning slams but due to his massive talent and easy game, he can still make major damage.

Nadal is in his 7th year winning slams, has started winning earlier than Fed, but his game is about wear and tear(missed 3 slams due to injury by age 25, missed an entire clay season, has tendinitis in both knees, etc.). These factors, coupled with Djoko's amazing rise(and the fact that he is a bad matchup) does not bode well for Rafa in the future. Everybody says that Djoko is his main problem and that is true in a sense but Nadal doesn't have the same will to improve his game anymore and he seems to not give his all anymore. Look how he lost to Dodig and Fish. Lost to Ivan after winning the first and slipping mentally again around the tiebreaks. Never being in the match with Fish. It's like you are watching someone else, not Rafa Nadal.

The thing is, maybe he can't give anymore, which is something few of us take into account. And maybe Rafa can't admit it to himself and just keeps rolling along, hoping to stumble into some titles.

Lack of fitness, no more mental edge, bored/annoyed on court, these are not things associated with Nadal, but that's where he is right now. Also, in tennis age, Rafa is 27'ish IMO.

I am however surprised that the trolls didn't pick on this statement:

""[The ATP] has to keep in mind the health of the players' future," he said. "They don't care about the health. All they care about is the show and the money."

"When you finish your tour career, you should be a normal person," Nadal said. "The people who play the most [tennis] are the people who win the most," he added, citing former World No. 1 Gustavo Kuerten, who had injuries derail his career, as an example.

It's not coincidental that American players rarely succeed at Roland Garros, or on the clay circuit at all for that matter. While Europeans play on different surfaces when training, most American players grow up playing solely on hard surfaces.

"Americans love fast games, but that's not necessarily what is best," Toni Nadal said. "Slower is better for spectators and easier on the players, like clay or grass courts. It may seem like I'm trying to favor Rafa, but it's obvious that hard courts have the most negative impact."
 
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OddJack

OddJack

G.O.A.T.
It's interesting, while Rodge at 30 is trying to say he is still young, Nadal at 25 is trying to say he is old. What does that tell you? If you ask me it's the love for the game. Nadal is not enjoying it as much anymore.
 
OddJack

OddJack

G.O.A.T.
namelessone said:
Don't worry, the trolls will not follow logic.

Nice to see Tony telling it like it is. One thing I always liked about him, his brutal honesty.

As I said before, Fed, with the easiest game on the body in modern history(no retirements in his career and very few ailments overall), started declining in his 7th consecutive year winning slams but due to his massive talent and easy game, he can still make major damage.

Nadal is in his 7th year winning slams, has started winning earlier than Fed, but his game is about wear and tear(missed 3 slams due to injury by age 25, missed an entire clay season, has tendinitis in both knees, etc.). These factors, coupled with Djoko's amazing rise(and the fact that he is a bad matchup) does not bode well for Rafa in the future. Everybody says that Djoko is his main problem and that is true in a sense but Nadal doesn't have the same will to improve his game anymore and he seems to not give his all anymore. Look how he lost to Dodig and Fish. Lost to Ivan after winning the first and slipping mentally again around the tiebreaks. Never being in the match with Fish. It's like you are watching someone else, not Rafa Nadal.

The thing is, maybe he can't give anymore, which is something few of us take into account. And maybe Rafa can't admit it to himself and just keeps rolling along, hoping to stumble into some titles.

Lack of fitness, no more mental edge, bored/annoyed on court, these are not things associated with Nadal, but that's where he is right now. Also, in tennis age, Rafa is 27'ish IMO.
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And that was his attitude same time last year that made Toni threat to walk away. Its in his book. Toni did not like his looks with his istomin match, and Nadal just said: I am human, whats the big deal?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog/2011/sep/02/us-open-rafael-nadal-novak-djokovic



In an autobiography that stretches ghosted self-analysis to the limits of tolerance, Rafael Nadal does shed light on one interesting facet of his personality: his game face.

In the heat of battle, he invariably looks like a wired-up bull, brows arched, lip curled, muscles tensed and his gaze burning a hole in his poor opponent. Some times, though, the Nadal facade cracks. And it happened in this tournament last year.

He reveals that he had a major bust-up with his uncle and coach, Toni (a mix of the Good Fairy and Burgess Meredith) in the second round – and it was all about how he looked on court.

All his career, Toni has urged Nadal to maintain "una buena cara", a good face, on court. "To have a good face," says Nadal, "means to wear a serious, concentrated expression when you are playing, one that betrays as few negative emotions as possible, reflecting an attitude of persistence and professional discipline."

He goes on: "The opposite of a good face is one that reflects the rage, the nerves, the tension, the fear or even the elation you might be feeling."

There's much more of this, which boils down to that old chestnut, "focus".

They fell out before Rafa's match against Denis Istomin. The Spaniard, not wearing his "buena cara", did not play well but won. In the locker room afterwards, he had to tell the grumpy Burgess Meredith side of his uncle: "I am not perfect and I cannot always disguise my feelings."

"If my face looks the way you said it does," Nadal told him, "it's because I was feeling nervous, because I was afraid I might lose, which I think is an entirely understandable human reaction … So what's the big deal?"
 
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C

celoft

Guest
OddJack said:
It's interesting, while Rodge at 30 is trying to say he is still young, Nadal at 25 is trying to say he is old. What does that tell you? If you ask me it's the love for the game. Nadal is not enjoying it as much anymore.
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Roger has much more heart than Nadal.:)
 
tennis_pro

tennis_pro

Bionic Poster
OddJack said:
Well, we already knew that, but one of the reasons he brings up is interesting.
He pulls the age card! Rafa is old at 25, and he will not be playing in few years!

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/09/02/rafael-nadal-novak-djokovic_n_946561.html
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"Americans love fast games, but that's not necessarily what is best," Toni Nadal said. "Slower is better for spectators and easier on the players, like clay or grass courts(...)"

I'm starting to think Hafa and Toni share 1 brain.
 
namelessone

namelessone

Legend
OddJack said:
It's interesting, while Rodge at 30 is trying to say he is still young, Nadal at 25 is trying to say he is old. What does that tell you? If you ask me it's the love for the game. Nadal is not enjoying it as much anymore.
Click to expand...

Nadal enjoys pain and competition. He has been doing that since he was a kid.

It's a different approach to the game. Nadal has said many times that he likes the tight moments in the match and that he enjoys fighting hard for the victory more than the victory itself. He likes these roadblocks in front of him. The problem is, with his game and mileage, certain roadblock are nearly impossible to overcome. For the guy that is used to overcoming these roadblocks, that is hard to take.

Federer is different. He is more of the artist type. He likes to fly free. That's when Fed is at his best, when he is slaughtering someone on court who has no answer. He does it quick and precise, like with a surgeon's scalpel. His problem comes when he has to get dirty, when he has a player that likes to chomp down and who prefers to stay with him so to speak. It's no wonder that his problems came against defensive minded players. Safin and DelPo(partially Nalby as well) that beat Fed while playing mainly offensive games.
 
TennisFan3

TennisFan3

Talk Tennis Guru
OddJack said:
It's interesting, while Rodge at 30 is trying to say he is still young, Nadal at 25 is trying to say he is old. What does that tell you? If you ask me it's the love for the game. Nadal is not enjoying it as much anymore.
Click to expand...

I've also been saying that for a LONG LONG time.

Fed genuinely enjoys the game. He loves the travel involved and has a gf/wife who is extremely supportive. Fed is fiercely independent and confidence about himself. Even if he is no longer the player he used to be, he plays because he loves tennis and cannot imagine himself doing anything else.

Nadal's case is different. He is a homeboy, a "major" introvert, who HATES travelling and would rather stay home and fish. Toni has used some extreme methods of discipline which extend beyond the tennis court, and it has led to severe insecurity, anxiety and host of other strange psychological traits that Nadal struggles with in private. In Nadal's book there are direct quotes from Nadal vindicating the darkness inhabiting his psychological landscape.

Tennis has always been a ordeal for Nadal, and his high intensity and extreme work-ethic always meant that he would wear down earlier in his career. And as I predicted here before, it is the mental part that does him in, not his body or an injury..
 
namelessone

namelessone

Legend
OddJack said:
And that was his attitude same time last year that made Toni threat to walk away. Its in his book. Toni did not like his looks with his istomin match, and Nadal just said: I am human, whats the big deal?
Click to expand...

The big deal is that disciplin is paramount. That "game face" is just a way of trying to stay focused. One thing I am starting to dislike about Rafa(and he has been doing this since the end of 2010) is his increased talks to himself on the court and the prolonged complaining when he misses.

He RARELY did this in the past. Miss the pass,lose the point, move on. Nowadays he lingers on it and it shows in his body language. That's what bothers Tony I think, you shouldn't let your opponents see weakness in body language.

Nadal should go back to his old manneurisms on court. He should focus on his game, not his misses.
 
MichaelNadal

MichaelNadal

Bionic Poster
namelessone said:
The big deal is that disciplin is paramount. That "game face" is just a way of trying to stay focused. One thing I am starting to dislike about Rafa(and he has been doing this since the end of 2010) is his increased talks to himself on the court and the prolonged complaining when he misses.

He RARELY did this in the past. Miss the pass,lose the point, move on. Nowadays he lingers on it and it shows in his body language. That's what bothers Tony I think, you shouldn't let your opponents see weakness in body language.

Nadal should go back to his old manneurisms on court. He should focus on his game, not his misses.
Click to expand...

I agree with this it's VERY noticeable now. He used to shrug it off really quickly or not do anything at all. Now he's always very visibly upset when things go wrong.
 
zagor

zagor

Bionic Poster
OddJack said:
It's interesting, while Rodge at 30 is trying to say he is still young, Nadal at 25 is trying to say he is old. What does that tell you? If you ask me it's the love for the game. Nadal is not enjoying it as much anymore.
Click to expand...

It tells they have a different approach and mentality, Fed embraces the role of the favourite and the burden of expectations that come with it while Nadal shies away from such position (always has). Fed is not in better form or more fresh than Nadal right now(physically or mentally) which is evident in their results last 2 years.

Those who buy this nonsense Toni is saying/implying ie. Nadal is "old" and won't be active in a few years etc. are being naive. Take out Novak and Nadal would already have 2 slams and atleast 4 masters titles this year, he reached 7 finals in a row at one point etc. Nadal is still playing great and is still the first or 2nd favourite in every tournament he enters, once Novak form takes a dip Nadal will pounce instantly, mark my words.
 
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TennisFan3

TennisFan3

Talk Tennis Guru
Murrayfan31 said:
It's true but I think Nadal needs a new coach. Someone more positive.
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That is true, for a million other reasons besides the negativity of Toni. Still Nadal most likely won't change. If he could have, he would have done this a long time ago..
 
DjokovicForTheWin

DjokovicForTheWin

Banned
zagor said:
So saying 2011 Novak is playing at a higher level than Nadal did in 2008 is trolling?

Were those who claimed 2008 Nadal>>>>>2006 Fed trolls as well?
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Actually saying Djoker2011 > Nadal 2008 just really gets under their skin, because deep down inside they realize it could be true, and well, the truth hurts sometimes.
 
zagor

zagor

Bionic Poster
TennisFan3 said:
Look at the posting history of the said poster and read the kind of stuff he/she wrote in the past 6 months or so..
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What kind of stuff? He didn't say anything the majority of Nadal fans didn't at one point or another, does that make them trolls?

I certainly don't view Namelessone as a troll for example but he ha numerous times in the past(before 2011) tried to convince me(and other Fed fans) that Fed was at his peak in 2008 and that the only reason he wasn't dominating anymore was because Nadal improved tenfold as a player even though Fed's overall results in 2008 were far worse than Nadal's are this year.

DjokovicForTheWin claims Nadal is playing his best/peak tennis at the age of 24-25? There are still a number of Nadal fans who claim that Fed is playing as good as ever at the age of 30.
 
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DjokovicForTheWin

DjokovicForTheWin

Banned
zagor said:
It tells they have a different approach and mentality, Fed embraces the role of the favourite and the burden of expectations that come with it while Nadal shies away from such position (always has). Fed is not in better form or more fresh than Nadal right now(physically or mentally) which is evident in their results last 2 years.

Those who buy this nonsense Toni is saying/implying ie. Nadal is "old" and won't be active in a few years etc. are being naive. Take out Novak and Nadal would already have 2 slams and atleast 4 masters titles this year, he reached 7 finals in a row at one point etc. Nadal is still playing great and is still the first or 2nd favourite in every tournament he enters, once Novak form takes a dip Nadal will pounce instantly, mark my words.
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This is the actual truth. Not some idiotic subjective feeling that Nadal is declining. LOL, the data certainly don't support that conclusion. In fact he was never slaughtered as badly this year as he was in 2008, his supposed peak according to the ****s. Oh wait that peak simply started after the slaughter :) LOLLLLLL
 
TennisFan3

TennisFan3

Talk Tennis Guru
DjokovicForTheWin said:
Likewise I'm sure. You blather on incessantly about total absurdities. You are no different.
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Sure. I've never even said that Djokovic is not better than Nadal. He clearly is.

But you seem to have an obsession of hanging around in Nadal related threads, and always bringing the same thing ad-nauseum. Which is that Djokovic is better than prime Nadal, and Nadal wouldn't have won anything if Djokovic would have been in his prime then.

Of course that's an opinion, and it's fine, but you even personally attack other posters (Calling them idiot etc), which is something that few good posters here do.

Anyway, it's a free world. Do whatever floats your boat..
 
DjokovicForTheWin

DjokovicForTheWin

Banned
TennisFan3 said:
Sure. I've never even said that Djokovic is not better than Nadal. He clearly is.

But you seem to have an obsession of hanging around in Nadal related threads, and always bringing the same thing ad-nauseum. Which is that Djokovic is better than prime Nadal, and Nadal wouldn't have won anything if Djokovic would have been in his prime then.

Of course that's an opinion, and it's fine, but you even personally attack other posters (Calling them idiot etc), which is something that few good posters here do.

Anyway, it's a free world. Do whatever floats your boat..
Click to expand...

You only say this in the context of a 'declining' Nadal. It's a troll. It's no different. If you can't recognize that, then I can't help you fella. I am ad nauseam? LOL, fella you are the poster boy for ad nauseam going on and on about how NAdal is declining, etc, etc. Ask even the *********s, they are sick of it!
 
zagor

zagor

Bionic Poster
DjokovicForTheWin said:
This is the actual truth. Not some idiotic subjective feeling that Nadal is declining. LOL, the data certainly don't support that conclusion. In fact he was never slaughtered as badly this year as he was in 2008, his supposed peak according to the ****s. Oh wait that peak simply started after the slaughter :) LOLLLLLL
Click to expand...

That's actually a valid argument. Kolja beat Nadal much more easily in Miami final that year than Novak did this year and also Tsonga destroyed a healthy rested Nadal at AO. Also in 2008 Novak(who wasn't playing as good as he is this year that's for sure, he was still a baby) routined Nadal in Cinncinati while this year he had to go 3 sets in both of their encounters on HC
 
Clarky21

Clarky21

Banned
zagor said:
That's actually a valid argument. Kolja beat Nadal much more easily in Miami final that year than Novak did this year and also Tsonga destroyed a healthy rested Nadal at AO. Also in 2008 Novak(who wasn't playing as good as he is this year that's for sure, he was still a baby) routined Nadal in Cinncinati while this year he had to go 3 sets in both of their encounters on HC
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Cvac was still a baby in 2008? He is only 11 months younger than Nadal so I guess Nadal was still a baby then too,right?
 
TennisFan3

TennisFan3

Talk Tennis Guru
DjokovicForTheWin said:
You only say this in the context of a 'declining' Nadal.
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Not true. I even said that the UsOpen 2010 Nadal would have difficulties with current Djokovic.

Plus, unlike you, I don't barge in on Djokovic related threads and say for instance that Djokovic would have no chance against prime Fed or prime Nadal. More importantly, unlike you, in my 2 years of posting, have I NEVER called anyone names (idiot or the like).

Anyway, it's just a game. I don't take stuff here personally. Nonetheless I'll edit my initial post, if you don't like that..
 
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DjokovicForTheWin

DjokovicForTheWin

Banned
TennisFan3 said:
Not true. I even said that the UsOpen 2010 Nadal would have difficulties with current Djokovic.

Plus, unlike you, I don't barge in on Djokovic related threads and say for instance that Djokovic would have no chance against prime Fed or prime Djokovic. More importantly, unlike you, in my 2 years of posting, have I NEVER called anyone names (idiot or the like).

Anyway, it's just a game. I don't take stuff here personally. Nonetheless I'll edit my initial post, if you don't like that..
Click to expand...

No you just post in every damn thread ad nauseum about how Djoker would have to have a heart attack to not win the USO. And that's not a troll huh? Dude, look in the mirror and then cast the first stone ok?

And I have never said Djokovic would have no chance against prime Djokovic :)
 
MichaelNadal

MichaelNadal

Bionic Poster
TennisFan3 said:
Not true. I even said that the UsOpen 2010 Nadal would have difficulties with current Djokovic.

Plus, unlike you, I don't barge in on Djokovic related threads and say for instance that Djokovic would have no chance against prime Fed or prime Djokovic. More importantly, unlike you, in my 2 years of posting, have I NEVER called anyone names (idiot or the like).

Anyway, it's just a game. I don't take stuff here personally. Nonetheless I'll edit my initial post, if you don't like that..
Click to expand...

EXACTLY. I don't get the obsession at all.
 
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