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Deleted member 307496
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It sucks that Nadal might miss the Australian Open. I hope he can make it to Indian Wells, at least.
Nadal News
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Crisstti
Legend
Oh, I think he will probably play.
Clarky21
Banned
He does to me, and no I haven't always thought that because if I did I never would have become a fan. His change in demeanor started over the past 2 years or so. It's off-putting and makes me dislike him.
I'm still not so sure he is actually coming back. He certainly does not sound very sure of himself or his return to the tour based on his recent comments. And no, I don't think he cares about playing tennis anymore. His own behavior and comments cements that opinion.
But accordiing to you he doesn't need the money so why keep putting your body at risk for needless exos? And easy money doesn't always mean he should just jump on it. This pathetic and embarrasssing PokerStars deal is proof enough of that.
He seems like he can hack the pain enough to play exos, and needless tournaments. So, either he is greedy or he's not in as much pain as he lets on. Which do you think it is?
Not true. Nadal has many contractual obligations that I am sure he cannot just up and abandon. He probably cannot quit right now or else I am sure he already would have. He's obviously unhappy with having to play tennis.
It's not just on court though. His crabby, grumpy, and unhappy demeanor has infected his off court activities as well. It's permeated everything he does, and he NEVER looks happy. Never.
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Crisstti
Legend
Two years ago would be around 2010 USO. Did you have a problem with how he looked there?.
His recent comments aren't different from what he's said before.
I think I already covered the issue of exos actually. It's only a couple a year, a LOT of money for not much effort, and I don't think he plays them when he's really not well physically. He cancelled the one against Novak this year, didn't he?. If he's practising he might as well play a couple of exos a year.
Maybe I'll post tomorrow pics of him looking happy
Clarky21
Banned
Nope. I don't walk around with perpetual scowl on my face and act so miserable that I should be on suicide watch. That describes Nadal perfectly.
And your problem is you think the sun shines out of Nadal's a**, and cannot see what's really going on because of it. Pull your head out of the **** fog and then maybe you'll get a nice dose of reality.
And does Nadal do anything that you don't like? Has he ever said anything you don't agree with or are you nodding in brainwashed delight at everything he says and does?
Clarky21
Banned
Two years ago would be around 2010 USO. Did you have a problem with how he looked there?.
His recent comments aren't different from what he's said before.
I think I already covered the issue of exos actually. It's only a couple a year, a LOT of money for not much effort, and I don't think he plays them when he's really not well physically. He cancelled the one against Novak this year, didn't he?. If he's practising he might as well play a couple of exos a year.
Maybe I'll post tomorrow pics of him looking happy
He does too. He played 2 of them at the end of 2010 when he looked so exhausted he looked like a zombie. He played one against Ferrer last October, even though his knees were bothering him. Nadal's knees have been problematic for years, and never truly stop bothering him. He should not be playing exos and adding to the wear and tear no matter how little effort he puts into them.
Crisstti
Legend
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVB49qXFM-s&feature=em-uploademail
From a recent radio interview apparently.
He looks hapy enough to me. Am I crazy?
From a recent radio interview apparently.
He looks hapy enough to me. Am I crazy?
Clarky21
Banned
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVB49qXFM-s&feature=em-uploademail
From a recent radio interview apparently.
He looks hapy enough to me. Am I crazy?
Up until he actually cracks a rare smile at the end he looks the same as I said before. He looks annoyed and agitated, and there's nothing new about that. Lol.
Crisstti
Legend
Lol, well, he is annoyed and agitated, he's talking about how intrusive doping controls are in that part (it's very late now here so I didn't translate it). Pretty disturbing btw, I didn't know it worked quite like that.
Then he talks about something else and he looks just fine.
Clarky21
Banned
I know, but they have to be done. Drug testing in tennis is so lacking that I am sure he doesn't have to drop his pants and be gawked at during a drug test very often. He's not alone so while I understand why he wouldn't like it, he won't die from it.
And if that bothers him he should thank his lucky stars that he's not a woman because I doubt he could hack going to the gynocologist if this bothers him so much. :lol:
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
^^ lol
lol
Clarky21
Banned
^^
It's the truth. I'd much rather do the drug test than go to the gynocologist, believe me. :lol:
vernonbc
Legend
Yeah, only twice in the last week, one of which was at 6:30 am which woke everybody in the house up.
Clarky21
Banned
Drug testing in tennis is lacking for more reasons than just the frequency of the testing. It goes far beyond that but since Nadal says it's top notch,I'm sure you will just believe what he says instead of doing the research and forming an opinion of your own.
vernonbc
Legend
The whole subject is so fraught with hysteria I have avoided saying anything about it although I certainly have my opinion (and it doesn't have to change). Have you suffered from a lot of concussions? They can really do a number of one's brain.
Nostradamus
Bionic Poster
why does Nadal look so skinny these days ? has been working out ? I hope so. Moya looks like heman in a recent pic that was taken after a workout.
RAFA2005RG
Banned
Nadal always looks skinny, since 2009 Australian Open. It was a good idea to loose all that muscle toward the end of 2008. No real point to thick arms/chest.
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Clarky21
Banned
He's lost some muscle from inactivity, imo. It's gonna take him a long time to get back up to speed on the tour if he comes back. Especially with his very physical game that relies a lot on his fitness and strength.
Clarky21
Banned
It's so fraught with hysteria that doping has become a pandemic that has infected just about every sport one can think of. How is pointing out facts being hysterical,Sir? Even at the amateur level doping has become a problem. Anyone who doesn't see this is living in a fantasy world.
Crisstti
Legend
Yeah, right.
Clarky21
Banned
So doping doesn't exist in sport? Rusedski and Puerta are just a few tennis players off the top of my head who tested positive for peds. There is doping in tennis,Crisstti. I know you don't want to believe it, but it's true.
Nostradamus
Bionic Poster
Right, he looks like whimpy nerdy kid you can beat up on or pick on in the schoolyard. he needs roger to protect him from bullies
Crisstti
Legend
I'm not saying it doesn't exist Clarky, but I do not think it's anywhere near as rampant as you and others say.
And Rusedski's and Puerta's cases happened quite a while ago. And they were caught after all, weren't they?.
Clarky21
Banned
Yes and no. Look up their cases if you want to know the details.
And going on the fact that the ATP will cover up for drug cheats, I have no doubt that they have done it time and time again. That's if their lousy testing regimen even caught them at all considering they seem to do everything in their power NOT to catch the drug cheats. I am positive there are drug cheats playing right now on the tour, and very highly ranked ones at that. If the ATP actually got serious about catching dopers, I would have more faith that these folks are clean, but since they don't, I will think doping is rampant in tennis with it's practically unchecked system.
Crisstti
Legend
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVB49qXFM-s&feature=em-uploademail
Anyway:
"That they make you pull down your pants, take off your shirt, or lift up your shirt, and take a 360º turnaround, well...".
"I want to be... 100% sure that who's in front of me is as clean as I am".
(About playing the DC) "As long as it isn't in rounds that are too harmful for my knee. Drastic surface changes are bad...".
Something about Cristiano Ronaldo. No idea what they're talking about, I must have missed that polemic.
Q: Do you go partying?.
A: Yeah, sure.
Q: It's good for you.
A: Or not, but I do it (laughs).
Q: When do you come back and when do you get married, they ask here.
A: Well, look, I'll come back before I'll get married (laughs).
Anyway:
"That they make you pull down your pants, take off your shirt, or lift up your shirt, and take a 360º turnaround, well...".
"I want to be... 100% sure that who's in front of me is as clean as I am".
(About playing the DC) "As long as it isn't in rounds that are too harmful for my knee. Drastic surface changes are bad...".
Something about Cristiano Ronaldo. No idea what they're talking about, I must have missed that polemic.
Q: Do you go partying?.
A: Yeah, sure.
Q: It's good for you.
A: Or not, but I do it (laughs).
Q: When do you come back and when do you get married, they ask here.
A: Well, look, I'll come back before I'll get married (laughs).
Crisstti
Legend
I know about Puerta's case, I don't see what you think the ATP did so wrong there.
About the ATP covering up players, it seems the only base for that claim is Agassi's case, and I find that a rather weak base.
What exactly makes you think anyway that the ATP isn't serious about catching dopers? (fair enough if you don't feel like spending the time to talk at length about this btw).
People bring up cases of players who've been caught as proof there's doping in tennis, and then they'll say the ATP covers players up... seems contradictory to me.
Clarky21
Banned
I don't think it's weak at all. It proves that they will cover up for players if necessary. What makes you think they won't do it again, or haven't done it again since then? I believe they most likely have covered up for other players after Andre. The fact that they did it once is enough to prove their dishonesty.
Their budget, the lack of blood testing, the fact that they didn't start testing for EPO until only a few years ago, the lack of OOC testing, the lack of IC testing, the lack of testing winners after matches, the lack of boosting testing for players who have a sudden increase in performance, the fact that players can miss 3 OOC tests in a year's time before anything is done about it, etc... I could go on all day about this. If they really want to catch these people they have got to make changes and get more stringent testing policies.
They have also got to spend a whole lot more money than they do now, which is only a little over a million a year last I heard. Compare that to the testing in Cycling where they spent nearly 5 million on anti-doping last year.
Also, just last year the ITF only conducted 21 OOC blood tests. Only 21 for all those players. That is not even close to being good enough to catch anyone. It's far too easy to get away with doping yourself as much as you like with pathetic testing like that. They only conducted 2,150 tests altogether on a total of 642 players, which the majority of were urine tests. 510 of them weren't tested OOC at all last year. Do you really think that's good enough to catch anyone? Each player had less than 4 tests all of last year. Not good enough by a landslide.
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vernonbc
Legend
Well, considering how you can look at Rafa and see a completely different reality than most normal people see, it's not surprising you have these fantastical notions about an imaginary doping pandemic. You have proven over and over again that you really don't know what's involved in being a professional athlete, which isn't surprising because I'm sure the sum of your experience is watching sports on tv. There is no doubt that there are occasional problems with athletes doping but the vast majority of them are good and honourable people and are dedicated to their sport and to being the best that they can be. I have seen the inside of the professional sports world for many years and have personal experience to base my opinions on. You haven't.
Clarky21
Banned
Please refer to my post responding to Crisstti to see how utterly wrong you are about the drug testing in tennis. Those are actual facts and stats provided by WADA and the ITF that contradicts everything you say. Even they believe the testing in tennis needs to be more stringent. Are they wrong as well?
And sorry, Sir, but you have not seen the inside of pro sports at the level that a lot of these multi-millionaire athletes are on. Thank goodness I don't have my head stuck in the sand the way you do.
You also sound just like baseball fans with your denial about doping in tennis who, much like you, tripped over themselves to defend their favorite sport/players when they were accused of using steroids and peds. Well, how did that turn out for them?
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Crisstti
Legend
That means it could improve, like most if not all things, but not that they don't want to catch dopers.
I agree about some things here with you, especially there should be more blood testing, not the least because it seems considerable less intrusive for players as well.
Isn't it two OOC tests that they can miss?. Considering the consequences if they miss more (this without testing positive), it seems reasonable to me.
I'm thinking those tests aren't evenly distributed, so top players must get tested more often than 4 times a year.
I think it's good enough to catch some, and that should be already a good deterrent. It's the randomness more than the frequency that should make this work.
Two things: are you sure they don't test winners, not even after the final?. And what is IC testing?, cannot seem to find anything about it.
Clarky21
Banned
Well, if they really want to catch dopers they have a very funny way of showing it since their anti-doping system has been lacking badly for years, and is extremely underfunded.
Last I heard it's 3 they could miss,and even if they changed it to 2 that is far from reasonable considering the lack of OOC testing as it is. For example, Serena Williams went 2 whole years without being tested OOC. Two years is ridiculous, and if she's allowed to miss an entire year's worth of OOC testing if she so chooses, she would go 3 straight years without being tested OOC. That is scary, and does not cut it at all. It also makes me wonder how many other players are going that long without being tested at all considering how little OOC they conduct.
But it's not good enough to catch anyone because they're not testing the way they should be if they really wanted to catch them. Last I heard they still don't test for HGH, and even if they did they would do it so rarely it wouldn't matter anyway. The system is so beatable as-is that it is hardly a deterrent. Player's know they won't be tested so why not go ahead and dope till their heart's content? They won't be caught anyway.
They do need more random testing, but as I already said, they do not test nearly enough OOC so how can it be random? Mix that in with the fact they can miss so many OOC tests and there is no randomness to the testing at all.
Positive. They only test the losers, and not the winners.
IC just means in competition.
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cc0509
Talk Tennis Guru
Pro sports at the highest elite level? If not, that is an entirely different thing.
cc0509
Talk Tennis Guru
They don't. End of story. Don't listen to any of these ignorant people who try to tell you otherwise. You have the right idea and are smarter than most on here regarding this topic.
Tennis_Hands
Banned
Clarky21
Banned
Absolutely it is. To think that Vernonbc compares his experiences at a very low level, and not at the highest level with millions upon millions of dollars at stake, just proves how far the denial has gone with him. These people have a whole lot more to gain than the amateurs he is talking about.
They don't want to catch the dopers, and the system they use proves it since it seems to have been designed with the sole intention of NOT catching them. It's lacking in every single area possible, and is one of the weakest anti-doping systems used in pro sports today.
It is definitely willful ignorance at this point since the information is out there if one so chooses to find it. It just seems impossible to be this out of touch with the reality of peds in sports in this day and age. It is EVERYWHERE, whether these folks want to believe it or continue to live in ignorance is their decision.
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To jump in the doping fray: the only way to catch steroid or hgh use is through extensive out of competition testing. Athletes take these drugs in training to build muscle, not during competition.
The ATP only tests players when the leave a tournament (i.e. lose or win the whole thing). Many drugs such as low doses of EPO are only detectible for 24-48 hours. This means that any of the top competitors can dope without fear in the early rounds of the Majors to be fresher later (unless you lose to a low ranked player in the second round, hence the rumors that Nadal got caught doping and his knee injury was to cover the secret suspension—since adverse doping findings are kept secret until a player is determined to have doped).
If the ATP was serious about combating doping they would institute a biological passport and continually monitor the top 150 year round. Not that the biological passport system is perfect, but it vastly limits the amount of doping.
Additionally, what is with all these asthmatic super athletes like Serena Williams that must use an inhaler every time they change sides?
The ATP only tests players when the leave a tournament (i.e. lose or win the whole thing). Many drugs such as low doses of EPO are only detectible for 24-48 hours. This means that any of the top competitors can dope without fear in the early rounds of the Majors to be fresher later (unless you lose to a low ranked player in the second round, hence the rumors that Nadal got caught doping and his knee injury was to cover the secret suspension—since adverse doping findings are kept secret until a player is determined to have doped).
If the ATP was serious about combating doping they would institute a biological passport and continually monitor the top 150 year round. Not that the biological passport system is perfect, but it vastly limits the amount of doping.
Additionally, what is with all these asthmatic super athletes like Serena Williams that must use an inhaler every time they change sides?
Clarky21
Banned
Clarky21
Banned
I saw the testing the winner here, at least for the 2009 Majors:http://tennishasasteroidproblem.blogspot.com/2012/01/doping-control-2009-us-open-qualifying.html
Outside the slams I think they test even less. Also, the ATP never tests for HGH (just like football). When I see athletes that have significantly more lean muscle than their competitors I always think steriods/HGH/etc.
Outside the slams I think they test even less. Also, the ATP never tests for HGH (just like football). When I see athletes that have significantly more lean muscle than their competitors I always think steriods/HGH/etc.
Crisstti
Legend
About this, I think that it was a recreational drug has to be taken into account.
Also, Agassi himself wasn't in any sure they'd cover up for him and he lied to them.
And if they would cover up for some players and not for others, then wouldn't the players who have been banned bring this up?.
Apparently not Nadal, since he apparently just underwent two in a week.
I do find it incredible Serena could go two years without any OOC tests. I see your point about the mix of (relatively) few OOC tests and the possibility of missing them, but I do think they have to be allowed to miss some. Is it 1 or 2 years ban if you miss more than two?, it can well happen through a year that you will be somewhere else than you had said. I think they give you two hours to get there if you're not when the testers go. Maybe that window should be longer (some 20 hours) if you're going to be allowed to miss less or none.
Anyway, you actually make good points instead of just saying "testing is weak because I say so"
I still don't think it proves everyone is doping.
Crisstti
Legend
I'm curious about what you guys think about his objection here (longer version of the part of that radio interview where he talks about the doping controls), because to me it seems to make sense:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVj1OVnLRYs
[...] to lift up your shirt, pull down your pants and take a 360º turnaround, well, what do you want me to say, I’m not thrilled by it. And if you see already that you’re going to pee without anything in your hands, without anything, well, that they make you pull down your pants and take off your shirt, or lift up your shirt and take a 360º turnaround, well, I’m not thrill… to me at least, it’s uncomfortable. What do you want me to say. (Journalist: it seems as if they’re ridiculing you) Exactly, at least to me it seems ridiculous”.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVj1OVnLRYs
[...] to lift up your shirt, pull down your pants and take a 360º turnaround, well, what do you want me to say, I’m not thrilled by it. And if you see already that you’re going to pee without anything in your hands, without anything, well, that they make you pull down your pants and take off your shirt, or lift up your shirt and take a 360º turnaround, well, I’m not thrill… to me at least, it’s uncomfortable. What do you want me to say. (Journalist: it seems as if they’re ridiculing you) Exactly, at least to me it seems ridiculous”.
Clarky21
Banned
There is no better way to do it. He didn't make any suggestions as to what they could do differently, so just exactly what does he want?
I know that I HATE Nadal complaining about anti-doping the way he does. It has to be done, and as it is now is pathetic and is designed not to catch anyone. If it got any weaker there would be no testing at all. His whining about it incessantly only makes him look guilty.
D
Deleted member 307496
Guest
You're thinking of Nadal, right? You know some people are naturally lean like that?
Rocky89
Professional
He has never said he is against testing for doping, in fact during that same interview he said he is all for it, he just doesn't particularly like the process. Big difference. How exactly does that make him look guilty?
Nadal has always had a strong opinion on many topics, who cares? Why can't he say what he thinks? Having an opinion doesn't necessarily mean you are whining.
Crisstti
Legend
That was really not my question. Couldn't the testers see if you have a vial or something in you when they see you pee?, what is the need for the rest then?.
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