Bread and butter serve
- Thread starter dlam
- Start date
mikeler
Moderator
Kicker down the middle if my opponent does not have a huge forehand to take a whack at it.
Buford T Justice
Semi-Pro
Anything that lands in.
Buford T Justice
Semi-Pro
In seriousness.....there is one guy I play (good pal....the guy Ive played the most against for sure) so he has seen my ball literally thousands of times. So, there is no fooling him....he knows whats coming.
In that case, I will DF alot more than usual, as I know exactly what hes going to try and do with a 2nd serve that is not hit well. He is going to run around it and bash a crosscourt FH on deuce side and DTL on the ad side. (My BH is better than my FH.) So, when I know he is going to do this, and be successful like 80-90% of the time, I will "go for it" on the 2nd and try to kick the you know what out of it to his BH. I figured the odds are higher than just hitting one that lands in the middle of the service box.
In that case, I will DF alot more than usual, as I know exactly what hes going to try and do with a 2nd serve that is not hit well. He is going to run around it and bash a crosscourt FH on deuce side and DTL on the ad side. (My BH is better than my FH.) So, when I know he is going to do this, and be successful like 80-90% of the time, I will "go for it" on the 2nd and try to kick the you know what out of it to his BH. I figured the odds are higher than just hitting one that lands in the middle of the service box.
OrangePower
Legend
Same here (assuming opponent is righty). Topspin 2nd serve wide on ad court is very reliable for me.
I make a distinction between topspin and kicker, which I'm not sure everyone does. Decent kicker is lower percentage for me.
dlam
Semi-Pro
My serve out wide is far more reliable on the Ad side. If I was facing a lefty I would hit more of a body serve- he would still be able to hit a forehand off of it but hopefully he wouldn't be set up. In that situation my first serve would have been the topspin serve up the t- but I wouldn't trust myself to really go for the T on a second serve in a tight situation.
OrangePower
Legend
Twist down the T. Most guys don't read a twist that well, so they jam themselves pretty easily.
-Fuji
Is that a high percentage 2nd serve for you?
I would unfortunately be serving many DFs with that strategy
Fuji
Legend
Is that a high percentage 2nd serve for you?
I would unfortunately be serving many DFs with that strategy
Yup! Since I have a lame shoulder right now due to injury (from playing badminton nonetheless) I can't hit big bombs anymore. My biggest reliable first serves right now are at around the 80MPH mark. With that being said, I have been restricted to hitting with a ton of different spin varieties, thus my twist serve has gotten a fair amount of extra practice. I only double fault maybe once every set, if that?
-Fuji
I'm with Fuji....
Since last week, I've been using an AmericanTwist exclusively for my second serves, and for most of my first serves. Don't think I missed more than 5 total in 3 playing days and over 9 sets of tennis.
I lost my Twist a month ago, and am looking for it still.
Since last week, I've been using an AmericanTwist exclusively for my second serves, and for most of my first serves. Don't think I missed more than 5 total in 3 playing days and over 9 sets of tennis.
I lost my Twist a month ago, and am looking for it still.
Drew_a_blank
New User
For playing a right-handed player, a kick serve out to their backhand, ideally so they have to make contact from at least in the alley.
Cindysphinx
G.O.A.T.
I will my usual slice serve and DF. Sorry.
SwankPeRFection
Hall of Fame
Something offensive and strong. It's always better to go for it and make the return more difficult than to just serve and get it in just to have it bashed back at you. What's good about not DF if the return is a winner anyway? You still lose the point. Learn to hit a strong second serve no matter what. Sometimes I even go for an ace on the second serve and get it when I'm down. People that I don't play much with are surprised. People I always play with know to expect it from time to time and know that sometimes the second serve is even more aggressive (kick wise) than the first was.
it seems some of you guys should try for the tour. the options you have on second serve while facing a break point, the variety of direction and pace... at least Cindyspinx is honest..
oh, and this:
is probably too much information.... ;-)
oh, and this:
is probably too much information.... ;-)
S&V Specialist
Rookie
Flat serve down the T. Stuns them mentally and allows for much easier deuce points. If for some reason my flat serve isn't seeming too reliable then I go with a kick serve to their backhand.
Fuji
Legend
Do you normally hit flats off one side more so than the other, or do you do it pretty much 50/50?
-Fuji
S&V Specialist
Rookie
Pretty much 50/50.
fleabitten
Semi-Pro
ON most opponents, a kicker to the backhand. If I am extra tight, I'll put it right in the middle of the box with very big kick.
OrangePower
Legend
Love how everyone here has reliable big kicker 2nd serves.
I must be playing with the wrong crowd of 4.5s. Of about 30 people in my regular circle, probably only 2 or 3 have a 2nd serve that consistently kicks above shoulder height.
Wish I had that serve
I must be playing with the wrong crowd of 4.5s. Of about 30 people in my regular circle, probably only 2 or 3 have a 2nd serve that consistently kicks above shoulder height.
Wish I had that serve
JRstriker12
Hall of Fame
Kicker to the backhand or body.
JRstriker12
Hall of Fame
Love how everyone here has reliable big kicker 2nd serves.
I must be playing with the wrong crowd of 4.5s. Of about 30 people in my regular circle, probably only 2 or 3 have a 2nd serve that consistently kicks above shoulder height.
Wish I had that serve
It may not kick above the shoulder every time, but at least I know the spin will bring it in. Much more reliable than my flat serve.
OrangePower
Legend
Guess it's a matter of definition then.
When I think "kicker", I think "shoots up high off the court".
Otherwise, it's just a serve with some top on it.
Agree that 2nd serves should always have some top or top/slice - pretty much the norm at 3.5 or so and above.
But top is not the same as kick, at least for me.
Power Player
Bionic Poster
Lately is has been a kicker that has a pretty good high bounce.
Can't believe I am saying that as my kicker was hot garbage for years.
Can't believe I am saying that as my kicker was hot garbage for years.
Fuji
Legend
Normally kickers are around 6 foot and higher right? So if your strike angle so high enough off the ground, even with a little bit of spin it should jump to at least around 6 foot. It's just getting enough RHS to get that spin.
-Fuji
OrangePower
Legend
Yes, I'd go with that...
So if your strike angle so high enough off the ground, even with a little bit of spin it should jump to at least around 6 foot. It's just getting enough RHS to get that spin.
-Fuji
Yes and no; even though your strike height is maybe 8-9 ft high, the ball loses speed in flight and more energy/speed on the bounce. So absent any spin, it will only bounce say 4 or 4.5 ft high (guestimate), depending on how hard you can hit it (e.g. a flat serve at 90mph). So you need to generate maybe 2 ft more with spin, and that's assuming a 90mph 2nd, which most rec players are not going to be hitting.
Bottom line is I don't come across many players at 4.5 level and below who can get a 6 ft or higher bounce period on 2nd serve, let alone have it be a consistent serve that they can hit at will under pressure.
Like I said, maybe it's just that I'm playing with the wrong crowd.
Power Player
Bionic Poster
Nah..mine is around 5.5 feet now which is enough to stay out of most players zones, but not enough to be a weapon yet.
I believe I can get mine to bounce higher. I already got it to twist, which is a rather rewarding way to win a point.
Baby steps.
I believe I can get mine to bounce higher. I already got it to twist, which is a rather rewarding way to win a point.
Baby steps.
OrangePower
Legend
Me and you both, brother.
We seem to be the minority here though. Most everyone else puts us to shame.
Fuji
Legend
Haha, I'm sure it has nothing to do with your crowd. 4.5 is still just rec tennis after all. It all comes down to practising your second serve, I pretty much solely practice my kicks and twist these days, so it's what gets better, right?
I definitely want to get some serve videos up soon! I don't think speed really is a factor though, it's just how much forward motion you are putting into your kick, vs how much spin you are putting on. To get a really high kick, it's hitting more up into the ball, rather then forward into the ball. Obviously if you are doing a "power" kick and hitting a ton through the ball, the bounce won't be as hight, but it will be a heavier serve that can be used in really any situation, which is what I assume Powerplayer and yourself are doing. Great serve to use, but if you are just looking to maximize bounce, it's not ideal. :razz:
-Fuji
I used to play with a couple of guys who regularly twisted their second serves well over my head. I'm 5'11" and it was less than 3 years ago.
Of course, they were former 5.5's, but the "then" rating might be top of the heap 4.5's.
Either way, they're too good for me to practice with nowadaze..
Of course, they were former 5.5's, but the "then" rating might be top of the heap 4.5's.
Either way, they're too good for me to practice with nowadaze..
Timbo's hopeless slice
Hall of Fame
if you're not chasing ATP points, it's all rec tennis, actually...
I just kick it into the body as best I can, works all right.
I just kick it into the body as best I can, works all right.
Fuji
Legend
I find some players, regardless of 3.5 or 5.5, can handle body shots really well, while some other's can not, almost fall over themselves trying to get out of their own way.
Makes a difference.
Same with the first serves. Some reach better to return, while other's have a spot in space then can defend REALLY well, while leaving other spots almost unguarded.
Or maybe I"m just overanalysing the situation, and I should just shut up and get in shape.
Makes a difference.
Same with the first serves. Some reach better to return, while other's have a spot in space then can defend REALLY well, while leaving other spots almost unguarded.
Or maybe I"m just overanalysing the situation, and I should just shut up and get in shape.
Same here. I'll try to direct it wide to get it to the backhand if I'm getting killed on the forehand.
maggmaster
Hall of Fame
My second serve "kicker" probably comes about 5 feet off the court. It has enough movement to not get smacked, most of the time. At the open level I better be ready to scramble I try to get it into the body, if I feel really good I put it out wide on the ad.
I try to get it into the body, if I feel really good I put it out wide on the ad.
Ace of Aces
Semi-Pro
Flat at the body in pressure situations. It forces your opponent to make a quick decision what to do with it instead of serving to one side or the other.
The most fun I have in my regular tennis routine is when I have a second serve break point down against my friend who has a tremendous 2H backhand serve return. I'll hit my kick serve to the backhand to the sideline. My strength against his. He knows what I'm going to do and it's just a question of how well I can do it. One-on-one, who is better? I love the challenge.
dlam
Semi-Pro
My flat ones tend to be long
I will try on the first serve but I have setup with racket bouncing ball to tossing hand to get the proper rhythm in my set up
The kick ones are more reliable as if I can clear the net and still spin in or if I hit the net cord it will spin in for a let
The flat ones there is less margin of error as the same clearance above the net on the flat serve might be long and if I hit net cord with a flatty serve it can bounce out
Someone as tall as Isner (who super tall) might be have more options and less margin of error
S&V Specialist
Rookie
If you really jump up and attack the ball way out in front of you, your margin for error increases greatly. Height is a large factor too. Deep knee bend and strong weight transfer allows you to create more leverage and thus more margin for error (not to mention the extra speed and higher bounce).
