Get off the courts!

Did I deal with this so-called 'coach' properly?

  • Yes. Adult matches take priority over lessons on public courts.

    Votes: 27 22.5%

  • Yes, but you should have gone further and called the police on him.

    Votes: 14 11.7%

  • No, he had the courts: You should have waited until 11, found other courts or gone home.

    Votes: 66 55.0%

  • No, he should have called the police on you. He had the courts and you forced him off.

    Votes: 13 10.8%
  • Total voters
    120
goober

goober

Legend
pvaudio said:
Quite interesting. I happened to do a contrast article on this as an undergrad for a soc elective. The number of prisons in North America with tennis courts can be counted on one hand. Which one were you in?
Click to expand...

Give him some time, he needs to do a google search before he answers. :)
 
tennisbuck

tennisbuck

Hall of Fame
omega4 said:
I did NOT vote because you didn't offer the option in your poll that I would have selected.

I would have voted for:

You had a right to use the court because they are public courts AND were not being used at the time.

I do NOT think that adult matches take precedence over lessons on public courts, however.

In spite of your childish and obvious disdain for the coach in question (calling him an oaf, mentioning his weight, etc.), I still think you did the right thing to insist on playing on a public court that wasn't actually being used at the time.
Click to expand...

This was exactly what i was thinking
 
TTMR

TTMR

Hall of Fame
pvaudio said:
Quite interesting. I happened to do a contrast article on this as an undergrad for a soc elective. The number of prisons in North America with tennis courts can be counted on one hand. Which one were you in?
Click to expand...

It was a juvenile detention facility. I will not reveal any further information, as I fear my personal privacy could be compromised.

cork_screw said:
I would have seriously just said **** it and started playing and took one of the courts. If he gives me trouble, just give him trouble right back. If this "coach" wants to be an ass, just be an ass right back. He is selfish and he's trying to hide it behind the "kids" category when he's basically selling his time. You meet a lot of people like that out in Los Angeles.
Click to expand...

Thank you. I am glad I am not alone in this. Perhaps other people here live in more harmonious communities, where decency and respect reign. In my area, it's dog eat dog. I am edified that someone else relates to my experience.
 
TennisDawg

TennisDawg

Hall of Fame
The coach has poor social skills. In his defense though it is likely the kids have no other courts available to them. The coach is filling a void and is actually providing a public service by engaging these kids in some useful constructive activity. Better to be on the tennis courts than to hangout at a street corner skate boarding, smoking who knows what else. I would have confronted the coach on his manners and just replied to him something like "okay easy, you don't have to get nasty about it" As far as the poor tennis technique you noticed a lot of coaches don't know how to hit the ball correctly themselves and even if they do, it's really hard, try teaching a large group correct technique sometime.
 
R

Rjtennis

Hall of Fame
The guy have have an arrangement with the city to use the courts, that happens all the time. Like you said private courts are expensive and the kids should take precedence over an adult practice match. It doesn't even sound like you where playing an official league match. On the other hand if they weren't using the court, he shouldn't have had a problem giving one up.
 
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B

bluetrain4

G.O.A.T.
TTMR said:
So the other day my bud and I decided to play tennis after a relatively long layoff. As you probably do not know, 95% of the public courts in my city are unplayable; they usually have fixed "nets" made of wire mesh, fading boundary lines, potholes galore (much like the roads) and holes and openings in the back and side fences. Clubs are obscenely priced and their courts always in use. This forces what few tennis players there are onto a few centrally located decently maintained public courts.

As we approach we see this oaf teaching about nine or ten kids. There are four courts at this location and it looked like he was only using two at the time doing some silly drills. We get our equipment and head onto the furthest court out and this 300 lb instructor yells out, "Hey buddy, we got these reserved". Quite an odd statement. I did not know you could "reserve" public courts.
Click to expand...

I understand your frustration, but yeah, in a lot of places you can actually reserve public courts. "Public" doesn't necessarily mean available to everybody at all times without restriction.

I live in a city with only 1 decent public tennis facility - a 12 court facility in a very nice park. But, people reserve it for small tennis events, one of the high schools reserves it for dual matches and tournaments, it is used for lessons, and of course, park district tennis programs. Basically, some of the courts are regularly reserved.

So, again, I understand with the limited courts you have, it has to be frustrating, but it's hardly a crazy notion that the courts won't always be available.
 
TomT

TomT

Hall of Fame
TTMR said:
So the other day my bud and I decided to play tennis after a relatively long layoff. As you probably do not know, 95% of the public courts in my city are unplayable; they usually have fixed "nets" made of wire mesh, fading boundary lines, potholes galore (much like the roads) and holes and openings in the back and side fences. Clubs are obscenely priced and their courts always in use. This forces what few tennis players there are onto a few centrally located decently maintained public courts.

As we approach we see this oaf teaching about nine or ten kids. There are four courts at this location and it looked like he was only using two at the time doing some silly drills. We get our equipment and head onto the furthest court out and this 300 lb instructor yells out, "Hey buddy, we got these reserved". Quite an odd statement. I did not know you could "reserve" public courts.

"Until when?" I asked.

"'Till 11," he replied. It was 9:30 at the time.

"Well, you're not even using these two over here," I answered.

"Doesn't matter, we will be. We got them reserved."

"These are public courts, how can they be 'reserved'?"

"We're here every week at this time."

"But that doesn't mean they're 'reserved' for you."

"If I give'em up for you then I have to give'em up for everyone."

My playing partner interjected, "Why don't we go play squash instead?"

"No. We're here to play tennis. This guy doesn't own the courts. We're taxpayers. We're playing."

"No, you're not. I've just finished my drill. My kids are starting their practice sets now. Ethan, Jessica, you two come over and play on this court," pointing to the one we were standing on. The kids quickly come and start a rally. It was clear the coach was now in aggressive mode, assuming we would yield once the kids began playing. As a side note, we saw their "coach" lived up to the stereotype; the kids were hitting with closed stances, eastern forehands with no topspin and finishing above the shoulder. The balls were your typical dead ones from Wal-Mart. No doubt their parents were being suckered and scammed hard.

I smiled sardonically and shook my head. "I'm sorry, 'coach' (I emphasized the scare quotes visually this time), we're taking the court. If you want to teach, you book a court with a club."

My friend and I pulled out our racquets and balls and began hitting right then and there, with the kids hitting at the same time. Once they lost control of a ball and had to go chase it, we were in control of the court and they didn't try to reclaim it.

The coach stared me down and yelled, "I'm gonna report you!"

"Yeah, you do that," I responded contemptuously without looking back at him.

We finished our match with the irritating disruption of kids running onto our courts to retrieve their errant balls, but we made our stand. Who did this jerk think he was trying to make money off of public courts? If you want to coach, you reserve a court with your club. I don't care if you have to raise prices or won't make enough money. A match between two or four adult players takes precedence over some plump clown hitting around with kiddies for money. I hope this fatso goes bankrupt.

How do you think I handled the situation? Did I do the right thing?
Click to expand...
Well, the way you describe it, I understand your indignation, but the kids were actually on the court that you played on before you. So, it's their court for however long the rule is at that public court.

However, it sounds like the 'coach' was unnecessarily rude and just didn't handle it very well. I would probably have become pissed at him as well.

Still, the rule at public courts is pretty clear. First come first served. Neither lessons nor adult matches has priority. At least not at my public courts.

Actually, I'm not sure it even matters if the kids were actually on the court you played on before you. The fact is that the kids who were on the same court as you were at the courts before you and were, in effect, ahead of you in the 'waiting line'. Either way you parse it, you should have waited. So, that's what I voted for. And that 'coach' should learn how to deal with situations like this a lot better than he did.

Just my two cents.
 
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TennisDawg

TennisDawg

Hall of Fame
Rjtennis said:
The guy have have an arrangement with the city to use the courts, that happens all the time. Like you said private courts are expensive and the kids should take precedence over an adult practice match. It doesn't even sound like you where playing an official league match. On the other hand if they weren't using the court, he shouldn't have had a problem giving one up.
Click to expand...

I had a similar arrangement with the city when I coached HS Tennis years ago. I posted the reservation times and dates on all 5 courts. I needed all 5 courts because I had anywhere from 20 to 24 kids on the courts for two hours. I had a few people confront me on it and I simply apologize to them and referred them to the sign with a city official and phone number to talk to, this was posted on all 5 courts. The way I see it the kids took priority and I'm not talking ranked juniors here. I am saying though that they were every bit as excited about playing tennis as a ranked junior. The problem with letting someone use an available court is that I could only make it available for 10 minutes or so then we had either a challenge match or drills. Most people understood occasionally I would have a few comments but I managed to diffuse it. We also played all of our HS matches on these courts. While I am symphathatic I had to have the courts for practice and Region play. I felt I was serving the public as it was for very little money.
 
TTMR

TTMR

Hall of Fame
Frankly, an overweight clod has no business pretending to teach children of any age a sport. If you can't even learn how to avoid the candy bar aisle at the grocery store, how can you expect someone to learn the game (which requires match play, which requires fitness) well enough to instruct? In fact, having the rotund around children provides a bad influence, giving the kids the impression that being fat is "normal" and "ok", when in reality it is unhealthy, dangerous and repugnant to the human eye.

I look forward to the day when medical treatment is based on how well one has treated his body. An overeater like him has no business getting the same standard of care as a stud like me.
 
S

slowfox

Professional
TTMR said:
Frankly, an overweight clod has no business pretending to teach children of any age a sport. If you can't even learn how to avoid the candy bar aisle at the grocery store, how can you expect someone to learn the game (which requires match play, which requires fitness) well enough to instruct? In fact, having the rotund around children provides a bad influence, giving the kids the impression that being fat is "normal" and "ok", when in reality it is unhealthy, dangerous and repugnant to the human eye.

I look forward to the day when medical treatment is based on how well one has treated his body. An overeater like him has no business getting the same standard of care as a stud like me.
Click to expand...

I say we give the boot to Santa Claus too. This thread rocks ! :)
 
TTMR

TTMR

Hall of Fame
slowfox said:
I say we give the boot to Santa Claus too. This thread rocks ! :)
Click to expand...

Cultural icons like Santa Claus and programs like The Biggest Loser glorify the obese. It is imperative children not be exposed to these engorged figures.
 
TennisDawg

TennisDawg

Hall of Fame
The original poll has nothing to do with what the post has morphed into. I think the poll should have been more like this!


Yes. superior studs are wonderful and should take priority over anyone else on public courts.

Yes, superior studs should go further and have anyone else not a superior stud incarcerated.

No, he had the courts: But, if you're a superior stud you can still kick him and the kids off the court.

No, he should have called the police on you. But, the police would have quickly realized you are a superior stud and kicked him and the youngsters off the court.

and choice E:

Never, rule against a superior stud as he is superior. The superior stud feels superior, well because he is just that superior and well also elite.
 
R

Rob_C

Hall of Fame
Ethan, Jessica, you two come over and play on this court," pointing to the one we were standing on. The kids quickly come and start a rally
Click to expand...

TomT said:
Well, the way you describe it, I understand your indignation, but the kids were actually on the court that you played on before you. So, it's their court for however long the rule is at that public court.

However, it sounds like the 'coach' was unnecessarily rude and just didn't handle it very well. I would probably have become pissed at him as well.

Still, the rule at public courts is pretty clear. First come first served. Neither lessons nor adult matches has priority. At least not at my public courts.

Actually, I'm not sure it even matters if the kids were actually on the court you played on before you. The fact is that the kids who were on the same court as you were at the courts before you and were, in effect, ahead of you in the 'waiting line'. Either way you parse it, you should have waited. So, that's what I voted for. And that 'coach' should learn how to deal with situations like this a lot better than he did.

Just my two cents.
Click to expand...

From the quote above, in addition to the OP, it seems to me like there were two empty courts that the coach wanted to reserve, and he called the kids over to try to guilt the OP into leaving.
 
S

Say Chi Sin Lo

G.O.A.T.
TTMR said:
Frankly, an overweight clod has no business pretending to teach children of any age a sport. If you can't even learn how to avoid the candy bar aisle at the grocery store, how can you expect someone to learn the game (which requires match play, which requires fitness) well enough to instruct? In fact, having the rotund around children provides a bad influence, giving the kids the impression that being fat is "normal" and "ok", when in reality it is unhealthy, dangerous and repugnant to the human eye.

I look forward to the day when medical treatment is based on how well one has treated his body. An overeater like him has no business getting the same standard of care as a stud like me.
Click to expand...

Yep, coaches who are overweight are worthless. Somebody go fire just about all NFL and NBA coaches then.

A good coach does more than just hitting with the student(s).
 
TennisDawg

TennisDawg

Hall of Fame
Say Chi Sin Lo said:
Yep, coaches who are overweight are worthless. Somebody go fire just about all NFL and NBA coaches then.

A good coach does more than just hitting with the student(s).
Click to expand...

Yes, someone should contact John Madden and Bill Parcels and confiscate their Super Bowl trophies. They should be banished from the NFL record book and never be allowed to utter the words NFL ever again.

And Dennis Rodman would have been one of the all time greatest NBA coaches and a great role model for kids, simply because Rodman was a stud. " Hey wait kids it doesn't matter that he drinks a lot or just got arrested for illegal possession, he's a stud " hahaha!
 
Timbo's hopeless slice

Timbo's hopeless slice

Hall of Fame
NadalDramaQueen said:
Look through some of his other posts, they are all troll posts. I don't know why everyone gets so worked up about his threads. :)

Humor him so that his time isn't wasted, but everyone should relax.
Click to expand...

I know, I actually find him very funny.

TTMR has a real understanding of what pushes people's buttons around here, you should see some of his threads in 'pro player discussion'

hilarious
 
muddlehead

muddlehead

Professional
..."9 or 10 kids". Lets say 10. Three courts is enough for 10 kids. Can't hog all 4. Next. (Can't be too many February days in Winnipeg when you can play the tennis, eh?)
 
L

LeeD

Bionic Poster
Comes down to...who pays more money into the system?
Because, if we don't have enough courts for everyone, why introduce MORE tennis players into the scrum?
 
pingu

pingu

Semi-Pro
If that were me, I'd waited for the class, and as I found, most of the time, they'll let me play after a few minutes of waiting. It's all depends on how you approach the situation.
 
TTMR

TTMR

Hall of Fame
pingu said:
If that were me, I'd waited for the class, and as I found, most of the time, they'll let me play after a few minutes of waiting. It's all depends on how you approach the situation.
Click to expand...

I don't know. There are times to say "live and let live", and there are times where you must assert your "eminent domain" where others have misused a scarce public resource.

Sometimes courts must be seized for the greater good.
 
B

bosssauce

Banned
TTMR said:
I don't know. There are times to say "live and let live", and there are times where you must assert your "eminent domain" where others have misused a scarce public resource.

Sometimes courts must be seized for the GREATER GOOD.
Click to expand...

HAHAH NOOOOO
 
storypeddler

storypeddler

Semi-Pro
I spent a few summers working with various P&R departments in tennis programs for kids. Mostly you get kids whose parents are glad to pay little or nothing to have their kids busy doing something semi-constructive during the summer. A few learn a little, a few learn nothing at all, and most just run around, hit some balls with their friends, and get some exercise. But the point is that if it IS a P&R program then the city lpeople ikely get whatever aduts they can to work with the kids for whatever paltry sum they can afford to pay. This guy may very well have been a jerk and a clown. I'll take your word for that. Don't know if he was working for the city in a legit program or running a scam, as you say. But there are better ways to handle the situation than you used. At the end of the day, I'm not sure how your behavior in front of the kids was any better than his. You both seemed to have engaged in a big p---ing contest fueled more by testosterone than by any sense of right and wrong. Nobody ultimately wins in this scenario---least of all the kids.
 
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storypeddler

storypeddler

Semi-Pro
TTMR said:
Tennis courts are a scarce commodity. I don't live in a city with a nice, usable tennis court in every neighbourhood. There have to be measures taken to ensure the greatest benefit for the greatest number of players. One guy hoarding the courts so he can teach children methods that will handicap their tennis for life--for money, I might add--is a misallocation of a scarce public resource.

Maybe I should have simply relented for the sake of the children, but then this guy would have persisted. I stood up against this abusive practice, and I'd do it again. I probably did him a favour. Other people might not have been as charitable about seizing the court as I was.
Click to expand...

And if he WAS working for a P&R program, you helped teach these kids that as long as you act like a bully, you are free to do whatever you want, take whatever you want, etc. The issue isn't the quality of his instruction. That isn't your call to make. If he was working as part of a legit program, YOU were the jerk and YOU were wrong. And you didn't even bother to find out whether or not he WAS legit before you got all high and mighty. Poorly handled.
 
B

bosssauce

Banned
TTMR said:
Frankly, an overweight clod has no business pretending to teach children of any age a sport. If you can't even learn how to avoid the candy bar aisle at the grocery store, how can you expect someone to learn the game (which requires match play, which requires fitness) well enough to instruct? In fact, having the rotund around children provides a bad influence, giving the kids the impression that being fat is "normal" and "ok", when in reality it is unhealthy, dangerous and repugnant to the human eye.

I look forward to the day when medical treatment is based on how well one has treated his body. An overeater like him has no business getting the same standard of care as a stud like me.
Click to expand...

Your are very rude and mean you shouldnt point him on his problems because didnt you say you were in juvi?
 
storypeddler

storypeddler

Semi-Pro
I apologize...

Let me take this opportunity to apologize to all concerned for my foolishness in replying to this idiot's trolling post. I should have read his comments on the pages that followed his initial post. Another name added to my "IGNORE" list on this message board.
 
TTMR

TTMR

Hall of Fame
bosssauce said:
Your are very rude and mean you shouldnt point him on his problems because didnt you say you were in juvi?
Click to expand...

You don't know the circumstances I was in. It was a crime of passion. Should a person's entire character be judged by one incident? Fortunately, I have long since reformed and made myself into a better, and as I mentioned before, more contemplative person. I've learned to put others ahead of myself.

TennisDawg said:
Yes, someone should contact John Madden and Bill Parcels and confiscate their Super Bowl trophies. They should be banished from the NFL record book and never be allowed to utter the words NFL ever again.
Click to expand...

I don't know, but this is why I don't have an organ donor card in my wallet. I don't want my kidneys harvested from my sublime physique only to have them inserted into some type 2 diabetic. They abused theirs; they're not entitled to mine.
 
roman40

roman40

Rookie
If you have a group of people, each person in a group is entitled to a court, even kids, so technically the coach can reserve all the courts, using the students as a proxy. However, usually, when someone is waiting, you cannot hold the court for more than an hour (the time limit may be different). In this situation, if you just arrived, you have to wait for at least as long as that time limit, because you were told upon arrival that the group needed the courts, and they arrived there before you did. No reservation necessary.

However, I would still like to know if reservation was possible or not, from the original post, it wasn't clear. Some public courts can be reserved ahead of time, and if the city required the coach to pay fees, it's not clear if he did so or not, but you have to assume he did without any contradictory information.
 
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N

nocturn11

New User
TTMR said:
I don't know, but this is why I don't have an organ donor card in my wallet. I don't want my kidneys harvested from my sublime physique only to have them inserted into some type 2 diabetic. They abused theirs; they're not entitled to mine.
Click to expand...

"Sublime"?

Keep in mind that some people have genetic predilections that dictate their weight, no matter their efforts to the opposite.
 
breezybee

breezybee

New User
However, I would still like to know if reservation was possible or not, from the original post, it wasn't clear. Some public courts can be reserved ahead of time, and if the city required the coach to pay fees, it's not clear if he did so or not, but you have to assume he did without any contradictory information.
Click to expand...

Given that I live in the same city as the OP I can tell you that the city owned courts here are used frequently for city-run programs ie. children's tennis programs. I've seen them frequently in the summer here. Guaranteed, if the OP's story is even true, that is what happened which means he is completely and utterly in the wrong.
 
S

sovertennis

Professional
NLBwell said:
Oh. Certainly your wonderfulness would have reached into every fiber of the children's being and little Ethan and Jessica would have been much better off than if they actually got to play tennis.

I know, you just did it for the children.
Click to expand...

Completely agree. The children should have seated themselves near the courts and watched in silent awe as the OP and his partner played. Later (but only if they watched the whole match) they could get autographs and the OP could tell them how he handles minor conflicts and never, never allows them to escalate into moronic arguments.
 
TTMR

TTMR

Hall of Fame
So I found out this week that due to lack of registrants, a few leagues have been merged together, and guess who's in mine! I'm scheduled to play him May 17th, barring snow.
 
P

pbalderas

New User
I cant wait to hear the results of the match! How ironic!

But for the record I agree with what you did. I hate court bullies who use PUBLIC courts to teach and make $. Not fair to tax payers. I would have done the exact same thing.
 
T

tennisfan829

New User
wow TTMR sounds like a total d-bag and someone I would not associate with.
maybe just different personalities but I am very non-confrontational and as soon as the guy mentioned reserved courts then I would have just left and found another court or did something else instead.
 
R

Readers

Professional
NLBwell said:
Yes, public courts are often reserved for lessons, drills, etc. There should be a sign posted on what time and for what purpose the courts are reserved. Sometimes, though, the parks department is too unorganized to actually post the appropriate sign. The guy may very well have been teaching a parks department class for which he got paid little, if anything, because he wants to help kids learn tennis. Maybe he is just doing this on his own for free to help the neighborhood kids.

Of course you are far too important to take the needs of some lowly ragamuffins into account.
Click to expand...

The court itself would have a sign for it in the city I live, and even then, it's only 1/3 of the courts, never heard of all public courts can be taken by a single coach.

Plus, why should he assume there would be a sign when there was IN FACT, NO SIGN.
 
R

Readers

Professional
omega4 said:
I did NOT vote because you didn't offer the option in your poll that I would have selected.

I would have voted for:

You had a right to use the court because they are public courts AND were not being used at the time.

I do NOT think that adult matches take precedence over lessons on public courts, however.

In spite of your childish and obvious disdain for the coach in question (calling him an oaf, mentioning his weight, etc.), I still think you did the right thing to insist on playing on a public court that wasn't actually being used at the time.
Click to expand...

I agree with your post 100%.
 
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R

Readers

Professional
Dave M said:
You say in the OP that he wasn't using the courts as he was gving a drill before sending the kids back out to hit again.Not sure if you have ever taught a class of children to play tennis but i t is much easier to have them all gather around one court watch what you want them to do then send them off to have a go. they were not on the court when you walked on but if you stopped to talk to someone mid match or went to the toilet would you expect to loose your court? (that is a question we don't have any park courts where i live, all must be paid for)
Click to expand...

That's what happens in public court, how do I even know you were there? We see an empty court and we start, we don't wait 5 mins to see if someone returns from their break.
 
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