Djokovic - is he the greatest returner of all time?

FedererDropShot

FedererDropShot

Hall of Fame
Undoubtedly the greatest OFFENSIVE returner of all time (i.e. punishing weak 2nd serves and making less than extraordinary 1st serves look like 2nd serves).

However, I think he doesn't have the case to be the greatest DEFENSIVE returner of all time (Murray and Federer are much better at blocking gigantic serves).

Whilst Federer is a 'crap' offensive returner, he's probably one of the best defensive returners we've ever seen.

If we looked at both the defensive and offensive return of serve, Agassi would definitely be in the conversation with Djokovic.
 
Russeljones

Russeljones

Talk Tennis Guru
FedererDropShot said:
Undoubtedly the greatest OFFENSIVE returner of all time (i.e. punishing weak 2nd serves and making less than extraordinary 1st serves look like 2nd serves).

However, I think he doesn't have the case to be the greatest DEFENSIVE returner of all time (Murray and Federer are much better at blocking gigantic serves).

Whilst Federer is a 'crap' offensive returner, he's probably one of the best defensive returners we've ever seen.

If we looked at both the defensive and offensive return of serve, Agassi would definitely be in the conversation with Djokovic.
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Not sure returning merits separate rankings for offensive and defensive but Connors deserves a mention in either category.
 
MichaelNadal

MichaelNadal

Bionic Poster
Probably top 3, does it really matter after that point? One of the best ever. Another useless ****storm incoming though.....
 
D

Deleted member 716271

Guest
MichaelNadal said:
Probably top 3, does it really matter after that point? One of the best ever. Another useless ****storm incoming though.....
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Top 3?!?!

You know Mike quite frankly I'm sick and tired of you underrsting Novak

Lol...jk :)

I'd say he's the best overall but you could make cases for Agassi or Murray even. I think Nole probably is the most consistently good vs. Most types of serve. Federer is probably one of the best at blunting huge servers.
 
ricki

ricki

Hall of Fame
I think that Murray, Nadal, Ferrer return better than Djok. Federer just blocks everything on BH side...
 
D

Deleted member 716271

Guest
ricki said:
I think that Murray, Nadal, Ferrer return better than Djok. Federer just blocks everything on BH side...
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Nadal and Ferrer are not in the same league as returners. Nadals return game would be up there, which is what happens when you have maybe the best aggregate ground game ever. Ferrer is laughable, if you're looking at stats I'm sure his are padded due to clay and lower opposition on average.
 
MichaelNadal

MichaelNadal

Bionic Poster
I think Agassi is better. When we think of how great of a returner Novak is, immediately you think 2011. He still has matches where his return is on fire, but on all surfaces and being consistent, it's Agassi all the way for me. In the average match I think Murray returns as well as Novak. The difference is Novak hits 2 or 3 returns in matches sometimes that are crazy good and lands at the opponents feet and we remember them.
 
NatF

NatF

Bionic Poster
Djokovic is the best in this era. Connors, Agassi - maybe Rosewall are up there with him all-time.
 
D

Deleted member 688153

Guest
My opinion is similar to you guys.
One of the best, as for the best, there are 2-3 other names in the mix too.
 
Backspin1183

Backspin1183

Talk Tennis Guru
He's one of the best of the current era. Probably top 10 all time too. Not the GOAT returner like how some say he is. He's not that great against first serves.
 
cc0509

cc0509

Talk Tennis Guru
Oh no, not this dreaded topic again! :twisted:

Djokovic is up there but I would put Agassi slightly above Djokovic for reasons many have talked about (including myself) on this forum ad nauseam.
 
N

Nathaniel_Near

Guest
I'm not sure that Djokovic is the best returner of his era, nor Agassi his. Maybe they are, maybe they aren't.

Perhaps Djokovic has the best overall "return game" of this era, but if we just isolate the return it gets a lot more complicated imo.

Djokovic is great at taking more or less full swings at returns and can come undone against the servers with a huge first serve.

Agassi got aced a lot and had a lesser wingspan—didn't cover as much ground on the return.

Both are/were great returners.
 
J

jg153040

G.O.A.T.
FedererDropShot said:
Undoubtedly the greatest OFFENSIVE returner of all time (i.e. punishing weak 2nd serves and making less than extraordinary 1st serves look like 2nd serves).

However, I think he doesn't have the case to be the greatest DEFENSIVE returner of all time (Murray and Federer are much better at blocking gigantic serves).

Whilst Federer is a 'crap' offensive returner, he's probably one of the best defensive returners we've ever seen.

If we looked at both the defensive and offensive return of serve, Agassi would definitely be in the conversation with Djokovic.
Click to expand...

I don't know. This is slow surface era where it's easier to return and also elite players aren't great servers.

He is probably greatest returner of weak serves. But not vs strong servers. Fed is really amazing vs strong server, although ironically Fed is very average vs weak serves.

But it's unfair to compare. Because if pros from the past started to train in this era with tennis evolution and technology and all advancements they could be pretty great too.
 
B

Berasategui94

Semi-Pro
m2nk2 said:
Agassi and Bjorkman are the best for me. Djoko wouldn't be so good in the 90s I think!
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Agassi made the best returns of serves when he got a hold of them, but he was also aced a lot because he often tried to guess the direction of the big serves and got wrong footed.

When you compare Agassi and Djokovic you have to take into account that the courts are now slower and higher bouncing than in the 90s and the rackets have more control, so it's much easier to return big serves in this era. I would say Agassi probably had better hand-eye coordination which is key in returning serves.
 
M

merlinpinpin

Hall of Fame
Serious question here: why are people only discussing Djokovic and Agassi? There are (many) more names in the mix, you only have to get back further in time. But ROS wasn't invented in 1988 (or in 2011, depending on who you're supporting). ;)
 
President

President

Legend
As a pure returner, I think Murray is at least as good as him (definitely better at returning first serves, and a bit worse at second serves). His return stats are slightly better than Murray's because he is better once the rally gets started due to his much better forehand. If we are talking about "return game", then Djokovic has a good argument, but Agassi, Murray, and probably some others are better than him at pure returning.
 
Sysyphus

Sysyphus

Talk Tennis Guru
Murray is the better returner. Better stats on HC and grass. Only reason Djokovic is so close is because he is so good once the ball is in pay.

Don't get me wrong. Djokovic has a great return. But Murray is better, and so was perhaps Agassi. Connors is in the discussion.
 
C

coloskier

Legend
MichaelNadal said:
I think Agassi is better. When we think of how great of a returner Novak is, immediately you think 2011. He still has matches where his return is on fire, but on all surfaces and being consistent, it's Agassi all the way for me. In the average match I think Murray returns as well as Novak. The difference is Novak hits 2 or 3 returns in matches sometimes that are crazy good and lands at the opponents feet and we remember them.
Click to expand...

Agree 100%.
 
smoledman

smoledman

G.O.A.T.
Why does he struggle against big servers like Roddick, Karlovic, Isner and now lately Fed? Can't really call him the best returner of all time with that flaw.
 
7

70sHollywood

Guest
Connors, Agassi and Djokovic are all pretty much at the same level, and Connors had the weakest serve, so perhaps that would indicate he had the best return?

Or perhaps Connors had the best return game, and then Agassi the best single stroke and Djokovic the best combination (or, Djokovic/Agassi reversed)?
 
N

Nathaniel_Near

Guest
70s, if we're talking "return game" then doesn't Nadal need to be considered? Djokovic's and Murray's return is better, but Nadal's combination of return and the overall strength and stability of his ground game often nets him very impressive stats regarding % of return games won.
 
N

Nathaniel_Near

Guest
Code: 
[B]1994 Return Games Won[/B]
                        Won	Total    [B]%[/B]	Matches
1.	A.Berasategui	365	991	[B]37[/B]	91
2.	Slava Dosedel	239	662	[B]36[/B]	61
3.	Sergi Bruguera	350	997	[B]35[/B]	91
4.	Andre Agassi	273	803	[B]34[/B]	66
5.	Jordi Arrese	173	525	[B]33[/B]	46
6.	Michael Chang	314	958	[B]33[/B]	87
7.	T.Carbonell	199	618	[B]32[/B]	55
8.	Thomas Muster	298	938	[B]32[/B]	83
9.	A.Chesnokov	234	740	[B]32[/B]	67
10.	Alex Corretja	259	828	[B]31[/B]	66

[B]1995 Return Games Won[/B]
                        Won	Total    [B]%[/B]	Matches
1.	Thomas Muster	431	1200	[B]36[/B]	104
2.	B.Ulihrach	202	563	[B]36[/B]	51
3.	Andre Agassi	330	925	[B]36[/B]	82
4.	F.Clavet	223	661	[B]34[/B]	57
5.	G.Schaller	287	853	[B]34[/B]	73
6.	Sergi Bruguera	189	580	[B]33[/B]	59
7.	T.Enqvist	300	925	[B]32[/B]	86
8.	Michael Chang	320	1002	[B]32[/B]	84
9.	Carlos Costa	194	611	[B]32[/B]	54
10.	Slava Dosedel	179	570	[B]31[/B]	54

[B]1996 Return Games Won[/B]
                        Won	Total    [B]%[/B]	Matches
1.	Michael Chang	333	944	[B]35[/B]	84
2.	Carlos Costa	194	566	[B]34[/B]	52
3.	Felix Mantilla	291	882	[B]33[/B]	75
4.	Thomas Muster	324	1000	[B]32[/B]	88
5.	M.Gustafsson	181	567	[B]32[/B]	54
6.	A.Berasategui	251	789	[B]32[/B]	72
7.	Andre Agassi	187	594	[B]31[/B]	52
8.	G.Schaller	160	509	[B]31[/B]	44
9.	Christian Ruud	152	491	[B]31[/B]	52
10.	Albert Costa	280	913	[B]31[/B]	81

[B]1997 Return Games Won[/B]
                        Won	Total    [B]%[/B]	Matches
1.	Alex Corretja	271	811	[B]33[/B]	71
2.	Michael Chang	292	874	[B]33[/B]	78
3.	Felix Mantilla	276	838	[B]33[/B]	75
4.	A.Berasategui	229	721	[B]32[/B]	66
5.	F.Clavet	245	774	[B]32[/B]	65
6.	J.Bjorkman	328	1038	[B]32[/B]	97
7.	Carlos Moya	300	973	[B]31[/B]	86
8.	Karol Kucera	197	652	[B]30[/B]	64
9.	T.Woodbridge	178	592	[B]30[/B]	51
10.	Sergi Bruguera	270	910	[B]30[/B]	77

[B]1998 Return Games Won[/B]
                        Won	Total    [B]%[/B]	Matches
1.	Karol Kucera	308	919	[B]34[/B]	82
2.	Marcelo Rios	297	893	[B]33[/B]	85
3.	Andre Agassi	302	939	[B]32[/B]	86
4.	A.Berasategui	209	671	[B]31[/B]	56
5.	M.Gustafsson	215	694	[B]31[/B]	61
6.	Thomas Muster	189	617	[B]31[/B]	52
7.	Byron Black	228	750	[B]30[/B]	65
8.	J.Bjorkman	216	715	[B]30[/B]	65
9.	Michael Chang	195	648	[B]30[/B]	52
10.	F.Clavet	251	841	[B]30[/B]	68

[B]1999 Return Games Won[/B]
                        Won	Total    [B]%[/B]	Matches
1.	Andre Agassi	297	878	[B]34[/B]	77
2.	Karol Kucera	232	712	[B]33[/B]	65
3.	Magnus Norman	236	745	[B]32[/B]	66
4.	Lleyton Hewitt	220	702	[B]31[/B]	64
5.	Marcelo Rios	225	722	[B]31[/B]	65
6.	F.Meligeni	184	609	[B]30[/B]	56
7.	A.Di Pasquale	178	591	[B]30[/B]	50
8.	F.Vicente	186	637	[B]29[/B]	54
9.	N.Kiefer	252	871	[B]29[/B]	79
10.	Felix Mantilla	186	647	[B]29[/B]	55

[B]2000 Return Games Won[/B]
                        Won	Total    [B]%[/B]	Matches
1.	Karol Kucera	171	542	[B]32[/B]	52
2.	Lleyton Hewitt	261	850	[B]31[/B]	80
3.	Seb.Grosjean	249	830	[B]30[/B]	70
4.	Alex Corretja	228	767	[B]30[/B]	73
5.	F.Squillari	200	683	[B]29[/B]	58
6.	A.Vinciguerra	153	531	[B]29[/B]	50
7.	Gaston Gaudio	170	592	[B]29[/B]	52
8.	Michael Chang	235	820	[B]29[/B]	68
9.	Magnus Norman	309	1080[B]	29[/B]	92
10.	Nicolas Kiefer	157	554	[B]28[/B]	46

[B]2001 Return Games Won[/B]
                        Won	Total    [B]%[/B]	Matches
1.	Lleyton Hewitt	382	1141	[B]33[/B]	98
2.	Andre Agassi	250	779	[B]32[/B]	60
3.	J.C.Ferrero	302	954	[B]32[/B]	78
4.	Guillermo Canas	257	819	[B]31[/B]	66
5.	Albert Portas	219	716	[B]31[/B]	60
6.	Tim Henman	266	880	[B]30[/B]	71
7.	Seb.Grosjean	271	916	[B]30[/B]	77
8.	Andrei Pavel	195	667	[B]29[/B]	58
9.	Marcelo Rios	152	533	[B]29[/B]	50
10.	Jiri Novak	155	544	[B]28[/B]	48

[B]2002 Return Games Won[/B]
                        Won	Total    [B]%[/B]	Matches
1.	Lleyton Hewitt	318	962	[B]33[/B]	76
2.	Andre Agassi	245	785	[B]31[/B]	65
3.	Jiri Novak	274	888	[B]31[/B]	79
4.	Alex Corretja	200	656	[B]30[/B]	58
5.	Gaston Gaudio	214	705	[B]30[/B]	61
6.	Tim Henman	245	816	[B]30[/B]	69
7.	Nicolas Massu	148	500	[B]30[/B]	48
8.	Seb.Grosjean	200	676	[B]30[/B]	65
9.	Mikhail Youzhny	186	640	[B]29[/B]	55
10.	R. Schuettler	229	790	[B]29[/B]	71

[B]2003 Return Games Won[/B]
                        Won	Total    [B]%[/B]	Matches
1.	Guillermo Coria	332	855	[B]39[/B]	76
2.	Lleyton Hewitt	191	554	[B]34[/B]	47
3.	Andre Agassi	254	737	[B]34[/B]	57
4.	D.Nalbandian	257	786	[B]33[/B]	62
5.	R.Schuettler	365	1150	[B]32[/B]	101
6.	Flavio Saretta	156	512	[B]30[/B]	46
7.	David Sanchez	170	558	[B]30[/B]	49
8.	Nicolas Massu	202	664	[B]30[/B]	56
9.	J.C.Ferrero	309	1019	[B]30[/B]	88
10.	Gaston Gaudio	226	746	[B]30[/B]	66

[B]2004 Return Games Won[/B]
                        Won	Total    [B]%[/B]	Matches
1.	F.Volandri	212	566	[B]37[/B]	53
2.	G.Coria	        201	613	[B]33[/B]	53
3.	J.I.Chela	238	735	[B]32[/B]	61
4.	D.Nalbandian	200	621	[B]32[/B]	48
5.	Gaston Gaudio	249	783	[B]32[/B]	61
6.	Lleyton Hewitt	311	985	[B]32[/B]	86
7.	Roger Federer	270	886	[B]30[/B]	80
8.	Nicolas Massu	202	666	[B]30[/B]	70
9.	Rafael Nadal	141	467	[B]30[/B]	47
10.	Jiri Novak	203	680	[B]30[/B]	63

[B]2005 Return Games Won[/B]
                        Won	Total    [B]%[/B]	Matches
1.	Rafael Nadal	387	1031	[B]38[/B]	89
2.	Guillermo Coria	345	945	[B]37[/B]	82
3.	Gaston Gaudio	298	862	[B]35[/B]	76
4.	D.Nalbandian	266	770	[B]35[/B]	63
5.	David Ferrer	281	832	[B]34[/B]	72
6.	N.Davydenko	307	913	[B]34[/B]	86
7.	F.Volandri	192	572	[B]34[/B]	56
8.	Roger Federer	324	1054	[B]31[/B]	85
9.	Mikhail Youzhny	162	551	[B]29[/B]	46
10.	Tommy Robredo	240	838	[B]29[/B]	68

[B]2006 Return Games Won[/B]
                        Won	Total    [B]%[/B]	Matches
1.	N.Davydenko	387	1093	[B]35[/B]	98
2.	Lleyton Hewitt	212	638	[B]33[/B]	48
3.	David Ferrer	259	794	[B]33[/B]	67
4.	Andy Murray	247	759	[B]33[/B]	65
5.	Roger Federer	376	1190	[B]32[/B]	97
6.	D.Nalbandian	235	757	[B]31[/B]	63
7.	Gaston Gaudio	186	605	[B]31[/B]	48
8.	Olivier Rochus	198	650	[B]30[/B]	53
9.	F.Volandri	182	602	[B]30[/B]	61
10.	James Blake	290	976	[B]30[/B]	84


[B]2007 Return Games Won[/B]
                        Won	Total    [B]%[/B]	Matches
1.	David Ferrer	336	931	[B]36[/B]	84
2.	Rafael Nadal	327	991	[B]33[/B]	85
3.	Andy Murray	192	604	[B]32[/B]	57
4.	F.Volandri	157	504	[B]31[/B]	45
5.	N.Davydenko	323	1037	[B]31[/B]	84
6.	Juan Monaco	226	737	[B]31[/B]	60
7.	T.Robredo	262	900	[B]29[/B]	75
8.	Gilles Simon	201	698	[B]29[/B]	61
9.	Roger Federer	269	940	[B]29[/B]	77
10.	R.Gasquet	221	779	[B]28[/B]	73


[B]2008 Return Games Won[/B]
                        Won	Total    [B]%[/B]	Matches
1.	Rafael Nadal	350	1045	[B]33[/B]	93
2.	N. Davydenko	273	843	[B]32[/B]	77
3.	J.M.D.Potro	208	650	[B]32[/B]	62
4.	Juan Monaco	159	530	[B]30[/B]	48
5.	Novak Djokovic	280	936	[B]30[/B]	81
6.	F. Verdasco	258	876	[B]29[/B]	74
7.	Andy Murray	258	882	[B]29[/B]	74
8.	David Ferrer	222	767	[B]29[/B]	67
9.	D. Nalbandian	178	623	[B]29[/B]	60
10.	Stan Wawrinka	192	702	[B]27[/B]	59


[B]2009 Return Games Won[/B]
                        Won	Total    [B]%[/B]	Matches
1.	Rafael Nadal	295	879	[B]34[/B]	80
2.	Andy Murray	295	886	[B]33[/B]	77
3.	David Ferrer	240	761	[B]32[/B]	68
4.	Juan Monaco	201	643	[B]31[/B]	62
5.	Novak Djokovic	346	1110	[B]31[/B]	97
6.	N. Davydenko	266	857	[B]31[/B]	74
7.	Lleyton Hewitt	190	673	[B]28[/B]	54
8.	F. Verdasco	263	947	[B]28[/B]	77
9.	J.M.D. Potro	238	873	[B]27[/B]	70
10.	Marin Cilic	219	815	[B]27[/B]	69

[B]2010 Return Games Won[/B]
                        Won	Total    [B]%[/B]	Matches
1.	J.I. Chela	193	599	[B]32[/B]	52
2.	Novak Djokovic	284	882	[B]32[/B]	79
3.	J.C.Ferrero	173	540	[B]32[/B]	47
4.	David Ferrer	295	946	[B]31[/B]	84
5.	Andy Murray	233	771	[B]30[/B]	64
6.	Rafael Nadal	294	1002	[B]29[/B]	81
7.	N.Davydenko	160	560	[B]29[/B]	49
8.	Juan Monaco	162	581	[B]28[/B]	50
9.	Mikhail Youzhny	211	771	[B]27[/B]	62
10.	Roger Federer	259	951	[B]27[/B]	78

[B]2011 Return Games Won[/B]
                        Won	Total    [B]%[/B]	Matches
1.	Novak Djokovic	334	860	[B][COLOR="Red"]39[/COLOR][/B]	75
2.	Andy Murray	292	809	[B]36[/B]	65
3.	Rafael Nadal	328	951	[B]34[/B]	78
4.	David Ferrer	287	877	[B]33[/B]	74
5.	J.I.Chela	204	646	[B]32[/B]	52
6.	Juan Monaco	182	624	[B]29[/B]	52
7.	Fabio Fognini	176	606	[B]29[/B]	49
8.	N.Davydenko	162	565	[B]29[/B]	50
9.	Gilles Simon	228	806	[B]28[/B]	63
10.	J.Tipsarevic	233	830	[B]28[/B]	74

[B]2012 Return Games Won[/B]
                        Won	Total    [B]%[/B]	Matches
1.	Rafael Nadal	213	565	[B]38[/B]	48
2.	Novak Djokovic	357	1033	[B]35[/B]	87
3.	Juan Monaco	210	671	[B]31[/B]	55
4.	David Ferrer	306	979	[B]31[/B]	85
5.	Kei Nishikori	194	626	[B]31[/B]	52
6.	Andy Murray	287	935	[B]31[/B]	72
7.	Carlos Berlocq	179	619	[B]29[/B]	55
8.	Gilles Simon	233	806	[B]29[/B]	66
9.	R.Gasquet	204	754	[B]27[/B]	64
10.	N.Davydenko	150	560	[B]27[/B]	47
[B]
2013 Return Games Won[/B]
                        Won	Total    [B]%[/B]	Matches
1.	Rafael Nadal	310	916	[B]34[/B]	81
2.	Novak Djokovic	319	960	[B]33[/B]	76
3.	David Ferrer	340	1030	[B]33[/B]	84
4.	Andy Murray	197	635	[B]31[/B]	49
5.	Fabio Fognini	237	771	[B]31[/B]	67
6.	Kei Nishikori	181	603	[B]30[/B]	53
7.	N.Davydenko	137	493	[B]28[/B]	44
8.	Gilles Simon	195	712	[B]27[/B]	58
9.	T.Robredo	188	704	[B]27[/B]	56
10.	Roger Federer	203	783	[B]26[/B]	62

[B]2014 Return Games Won[/B]
                        Won	Total    [B]%[/B]	Matches
1.	Rafael Nadal	249	712	[B]35[/B]	59
2.	Novak Djokovic	287	862	[B]33[/B]	69
3.	David Ferrer	309	941	[B]33[/B]	78
4.	Andy Murray	303	951	[B]32[/B]	75
5.	Pablo Andujar	141	487	[B]29[/B]	44
6.	Kei Nishikori	232	842	[B]28[/B]	66
7.	Fabio Fognini	199	729	[B]27[/B]	60
8.	Gael Monfils	162	598	[B]27[/B]	47
9.	R.Bautista Agut	209	797	[B]26[/B]	64
10.	Roger Federer	260	998	[B]26[/B]	78
 
Last edited by a moderator:
7

70sHollywood

Guest
Nathaniel_Near said:
70s, if we're talking "return game" then doesn't Nadal need to be considered? Djokovic's and Murray's return is better, but Nadal's combination of return and the overall strength and stability of his ground game often nets him very impressive stats regarding % of return games won.
Click to expand...

Yeah, that's very true. I'd love to see a statistical breakdown of how many strokes on average it takes a player to win a return point. (And of course just a straightforward "return winners" stat). Plus, an "aced" stat, showing how many times a player was aced.
 
MichaelNadal

MichaelNadal

Bionic Poster
Nathaniel_Near said:
2000 Return Games Won
Games Won Total Games % Matches
1. Karol Kucera 171 542 32 52
2. Lleyton Hewitt 261 850 31 80
3. Sebastien Grosjean 249 830 30 70
4. Alex Corretja 228 767 30 73
5. Franco Squillari 200 683 29 58
6. Andreas Vinciguerra 153 531 29 50
7. Gaston Gaudio 170 592 29 52
8. Michael Chang 235 820 29 68
9. Magnus Norman 309 1080 29 92
10. Nicolas Kiefer 157 554 28 46

2001 Return Games Won
Games Won Total Games % Matches
1. Lleyton Hewitt 382 1141 33 98
2. Andre Agassi 250 779 32 60
3. Juan Carlos Ferrero 302 954 32 78
4. Guillermo Canas 257 819 31 66
5. Albert Portas 219 716 31 60
6. Tim Henman 266 880 30 71
7. Sebastien Grosjean 271 916 30 77
8. Andrei Pavel 195 667 29 58
9. Marcelo Rios 152 533 29 50
10. Jiri Novak 155 544 28 48

2002 Return Games Won
Games Won Total Games % Matches
1. Lleyton Hewitt 318 962 33 76
2. Andre Agassi 245 785 31 65
3. Jiri Novak 274 888 31 79
4. Alex Corretja 200 656 30 58
5. Gaston Gaudio 214 705 30 61
6. Tim Henman 245 816 30 69
7. Nicolas Massu 148 500 30 48
8. Sebastien Grosjean 200 676 30 65
9. Mikhail Youzhny 186 640 29 55
10. Rainer Schuettler 229 790 29 71

2003 Return Games Won
Games Won Total Games % Matches
1. Guillermo Coria 332 855 39 76
2. Lleyton Hewitt 191 554 34 47
3. Andre Agassi 254 737 34 57
4. David Nalbandian 257 786 33 62
5. Rainer Schuettler 365 1150 32 101
6. Flavio Saretta 156 512 30 46
7. David Sanchez 170 558 30 49
8. Nicolas Massu 202 664 30 56
9. Juan Carlos Ferrero 309 1019 30 88
10. Gaston Gaudio 226 746 30 66

2004 Return Games Won
Games Won Total Games % Matches
1. Filippo Volandri 212 566 37 53
2. Guillermo Coria 201 613 33 53
3. Juan Ignacio Chela 238 735 32 61
4. David Nalbandian 200 621 32 48
5. Gaston Gaudio 249 783 32 61
6. Lleyton Hewitt 311 985 32 86
7. Roger Federer 270 886 30 80
8. Nicolas Massu 202 666 30 70
9. Rafael Nadal 141 467 30 47
10. Jiri Novak 203 680 30 63

2005 Return Games Won
Games Won Total Games % Matches
1. Rafael Nadal 387 1031 38 89
2. Guillermo Coria 345 945 37 82
3. Gaston Gaudio 298 862 35 76
4. David Nalbandian 266 770 35 63
5. David Ferrer 281 832 34 72
6. Nikolay Davydenko 307 913 34 86
7. Filippo Volandri 192 572 34 56
8. Roger Federer 324 1054 31 85
9. Mikhail Youzhny 162 551 29 46
10. Tommy Robredo 240 838 29 68

2006 Return Games Won
Games Won Total Games % Matches
1. Nikolay Davydenko 387 1093 35 98
2. Lleyton Hewitt 212 638 33 48
3. David Ferrer 259 794 33 67
4. Andy Murray 247 759 33 65
5. Roger Federer 376 1190 32 97
6. David Nalbandian 235 757 31 63
7. Gaston Gaudio 186 605 31 48
8. Olivier Rochus 198 650 30 53
9. Filippo Volandri 182 602 30 61
10. James Blake 290 976 30 84


2007 Return Games Won
Games Won Total Games % Matches
1. David Ferrer 336 931 36 84
2. Rafael Nadal 327 991 33 85
3. Andy Murray 192 604 32 57
4. Filippo Volandri 157 504 31 45
5. Nikolay Davydenko 323 1037 31 84
6. Juan Monaco 226 737 31 60
7. Tommy Robredo 262 900 29 75
8. Gilles Simon 201 698 29 61
9. Roger Federer 269 940 29 77
10. Richard Gasquet 221 779 28 73


2008 Return Games Won
Games Won Total Games % Matches
1. Rafael Nadal 350 1045 33 93
2. Nikolay Davydenko 273 843 32 77
3. Juan Martin Del Potro 208 650 32 62
4. Juan Monaco 159 530 30 48
5. Novak Djokovic 280 936 30 81
6. Fernando Verdasco 258 876 29 74
7. Andy Murray 258 882 29 74
8. David Ferrer 222 767 29 67
9. David Nalbandian 178 623 29 60
10. Stan Wawrinka 192 702 27 59


2009 Return Games Won
Games Won Total Games % Matches
1. Rafael Nadal 295 879 34 80
2. Andy Murray 295 886 33 77
3. David Ferrer 240 761 32 68
4. Juan Monaco 201 643 31 62
5. Novak Djokovic 346 1110 31 97
6. Nikolay Davydenko 266 857 31 74
7. Lleyton Hewitt 190 673 28 54
8. Fernando Verdasco 263 947 28 77
9. Juan Martin Del Potro 238 873 27 70
10. Marin Cilic 219 815 27 69

2010 Return Games Won
Games Won Total Games % Matches
1. Juan Ignacio Chela 193 599 32 52
2. Novak Djokovic 284 882 32 79
3. Juan Carlos Ferrero 173 540 32 47
4. David Ferrer 295 946 31 84
5. Andy Murray 233 771 30 64
6. Rafael Nadal 294 1002 29 81
7. Nikolay Davydenko 160 560 29 49
8. Juan Monaco 162 581 28 50
9. Mikhail Youzhny 211 771 27 62
10. Roger Federer 259 951 27 78

2011 Return Games Won
Games Won Total Games % Matches
1. Novak Djokovic 334 860 39 75
2. Andy Murray 292 809 36 65
3. Rafael Nadal 328 951 34 78
4. David Ferrer 287 877 33 74
5. Juan Ignacio Chela 204 646 32 52
6. Juan Monaco 182 624 29 52
7. Fabio Fognini 176 606 29 49
8. Nikolay Davydenko 162 565 29 50
9. Gilles Simon 228 806 28 63
10. Janko Tipsarevic 233 830 28 74

2012 Return Games Won
Games Won Total Games % Matches
1. Rafael Nadal 213 565 38 48
2. Novak Djokovic 357 1033 35 87
3. Juan Monaco 210 671 31 55
4. David Ferrer 306 979 31 85
5. Kei Nishikori 194 626 31 52
6. Andy Murray 287 935 31 72
7. Carlos Berlocq 179 619 29 55
8. Gilles Simon 233 806 29 66
9. Richard Gasquet 204 754 27 64
10. Nikolay Davydenko 150 560 27 47

2013 Return Games Won
Games Won Total Games % Matches
1. Rafael Nadal 310 916 34 81
2. Novak Djokovic 319 960 33 76
3. David Ferrer 340 1030 33 84
4. Andy Murray 197 635 31 49
5. Fabio Fognini 237 771 31 67
6. Kei Nishikori 181 603 30 53
7. Nikolay Davydenko 137 493 28 44
8. Gilles Simon 195 712 27 58
9. Tommy Robredo 188 704 27 56
10. Roger Federer 203 783 26 62

2014 Return Games Won
Games Won Total Games % Matches
1. Rafael Nadal 249 712 35 59
2. Novak Djokovic 287 862 33 69
3. David Ferrer 309 941 33 78
4. Andy Murray 303 951 32 75
5. Pablo Andujar 141 487 29 44
6. Kei Nishikori 232 842 28 66
7. Fabio Fognini 199 729 27 60
8. Gael Monfils 162 598 27 47
9. Roberto Bautista Agut 209 797 26 64
10. Roger Federer 260 998 26 78
Click to expand...

:eek: #KingRafa
 
m2nk2

m2nk2

Hall of Fame
Berasategui94 said:
Agassi made the best returns of serves when he got a hold of them, but he was also aced a lot because he often tried to guess the direction of the big serves and got wrong footed.

When you compare Agassi and Djokovic you have to take into account that the courts are now slower and higher bouncing than in the 90s and the rackets have more control, so it's much easier to return big serves in this era. I would say Agassi probably had better hand-eye coordination which is key in returning serves.
Click to expand...

Yeah, that's what I'm taking into account. That's why Djoko wouldn't be so good in the 90s. Today, there is a weak era, poly strings and slow courts/balls.

So for me Agassi and Bjorkman are better to name a few.
 
N

Nathaniel_Near

Guest
Nathaniel_Near said:
Code: 
.....

[B]2004 Return Games Won[/B]
                        Won	Total    [B]%[/B]	Matches
1.	F.Volandri	212	566	[B]37[/B]	53
2.	G.Coria	        201	613	[B]33[/B]	53
3.	J.I.Chela	238	735	[B]32[/B]	61
4.	D.Nalbandian	200	621	[B]32[/B]	48
5.	Gaston Gaudio	249	783	[B]32[/B]	61
6.	Lleyton Hewitt	311	985	[B]32[/B]	86
7.	Roger Federer	270	886	[B]30[/B]	80
8.	Nicolas Massu	202	666	[B]30[/B]	70
9.	Rafael Nadal	141	467	[B]30[/B]	47
10.	Jiri Novak	203	680	[B]30[/B]	63

[B]2005 Return Games Won[/B]
                        Won	Total    [B]%[/B]	Matches
1.	Rafael Nadal	387	1031	[B]38[/B]	89
2.	Guillermo Coria	345	945	[B]37[/B]	82
3.	Gaston Gaudio	298	862	[B]35[/B]	76
4.	D.Nalbandian	266	770	[B]35[/B]	63
5.	David Ferrer	281	832	[B]34[/B]	72
6.	N.Davydenko	307	913	[B]34[/B]	86
7.	F.Volandri	192	572	[B]34[/B]	56
8.	Roger Federer	324	1054	[B]31[/B]	85
9.	Mikhail Youzhny	162	551	[B]29[/B]	46
10.	Tommy Robredo	240	838	[B]29[/B]	68

[B]2006 Return Games Won[/B]
                        Won	Total    [B]%[/B]	Matches
1.	N.Davydenko	387	1093	[B]35[/B]	98
2.	Lleyton Hewitt	212	638	[B]33[/B]	48
3.	David Ferrer	259	794	[B]33[/B]	67
4.	Andy Murray	247	759	[B]33[/B]	65
5.	Roger Federer	376	1190	[B]32[/B]	97
6.	D.Nalbandian	235	757	[B]31[/B]	63
7.	Gaston Gaudio	186	605	[B]31[/B]	48
8.	Olivier Rochus	198	650	[B]30[/B]	53
9.	F.Volandri	182	602	[B]30[/B]	61
10.	James Blake	290	976	[B]30[/B]	84
[COLOR="DarkGreen"][B]20.	Novak Djokovic	168	634	[B]26[/B]	58[/B][/COLOR]


[B]2007 Return Games Won[/B]
                        Won	Total    [B]%[/B]	Matches
1.	David Ferrer	336	931	[B]36[/B]	84
2.	Rafael Nadal	327	991	[B]33[/B]	85
3.	Andy Murray	192	604	[B]32[/B]	57
4.	F.Volandri	157	504	[B]31[/B]	45
5.	N.Davydenko	323	1037	[B]31[/B]	84
6.	Juan Monaco	226	737	[B]31[/B]	60
7.	T.Robredo	262	900	[B]29[/B]	75
8.	Gilles Simon	201	698	[B]29[/B]	61
9.	Roger Federer	269	940	[B]29[/B]	77
10.	R.Gasquet	221	779	[B]28[/B]	73
[COLOR="DarkGreen"][B]12.	Novak Djokovic	297	1055	28	87[/B][/COLOR]


[B]2008 Return Games Won[/B]
                        Won	Total    [B]%[/B]	Matches
1.	Rafael Nadal	350	1045	[B]33[/B]	93
2.	N. Davydenko	273	843	[B]32[/B]	77
3.	J.M.D.Potro	208	650	[B]32[/B]	62
4.	Juan Monaco	159	530	[B]30[/B]	48
5.	Novak Djokovic	280	936	[B]30[/B]	81
6.	F. Verdasco	258	876	[B]29[/B]	74
7.	Andy Murray	258	882	[B]29[/B]	74
8.	David Ferrer	222	767	[B]29[/B]	67
9.	D. Nalbandian	178	623	[B]29[/B]	60
10.	Stan Wawrinka	192	702	[B]27[/B]	59


[B]2009 Return Games Won[/B]
                        Won	Total    [B]%[/B]	Matches
1.	Rafael Nadal	295	879	[B]34[/B]	80
2.	Andy Murray	295	886	[B]33[/B]	77
3.	David Ferrer	240	761	[B]32[/B]	68
4.	Juan Monaco	201	643	[B]31[/B]	62
5.	Novak Djokovic	346	1110	[B]31[/B]	97
6.	N. Davydenko	266	857	[B]31[/B]	74
7.	Lleyton Hewitt	190	673	[B]28[/B]	54
8.	F. Verdasco	263	947	[B]28[/B]	77
9.	J.M.D. Potro	238	873	[B]27[/B]	70
10.	Marin Cilic	219	815	[B]27[/B]	69

[B]2010 Return Games Won[/B]
                        Won	Total    [B]%[/B]	Matches
1.	J.I. Chela	193	599	[B]32[/B]	52
2.	Novak Djokovic	284	882	[B]32[/B]	79
3.	J.C.Ferrero	173	540	[B]32[/B]	47
4.	David Ferrer	295	946	[B]31[/B]	84
5.	Andy Murray	233	771	[B]30[/B]	64
6.	Rafael Nadal	294	1002	[B]29[/B]	81
7.	N.Davydenko	160	560	[B]29[/B]	49
8.	Juan Monaco	162	581	[B]28[/B]	50
9.	Mikhail Youzhny	211	771	[B]27[/B]	62
10.	Roger Federer	259	951	[B]27[/B]	78

[B]2011 Return Games Won[/B]
                        Won	Total    [B]%[/B]	Matches
1.	Novak Djokovic	334	860	[B][COLOR="Red"]39[/COLOR][/B]	75
2.	Andy Murray	292	809	[B]36[/B]	65
3.	Rafael Nadal	328	951	[B]34[/B]	78
4.	David Ferrer	287	877	[B]33[/B]	74
5.	J.I.Chela	204	646	[B]32[/B]	52
6.	Juan Monaco	182	624	[B]29[/B]	52
7.	Fabio Fognini	176	606	[B]29[/B]	49
8.	N.Davydenko	162	565	[B]29[/B]	50
9.	Gilles Simon	228	806	[B]28[/B]	63
10.	J.Tipsarevic	233	830	[B]28[/B]	74

[B]2012 Return Games Won[/B]
                        Won	Total    [B]%[/B]	Matches
1.	Rafael Nadal	213	565	[B]38[/B]	48
2.	Novak Djokovic	357	1033	[B]35[/B]	87
3.	Juan Monaco	210	671	[B]31[/B]	55
4.	David Ferrer	306	979	[B]31[/B]	85
5.	Kei Nishikori	194	626	[B]31[/B]	52
6.	Andy Murray	287	935	[B]31[/B]	72
7.	Carlos Berlocq	179	619	[B]29[/B]	55
8.	Gilles Simon	233	806	[B]29[/B]	66
9.	R.Gasquet	204	754	[B]27[/B]	64
10.	N.Davydenko	150	560	[B]27[/B]	47
[B]
2013 Return Games Won[/B]
                        Won	Total    [B]%[/B]	Matches
1.	Rafael Nadal	310	916	[B]34[/B]	81
2.	Novak Djokovic	319	960	[B]33[/B]	76
3.	David Ferrer	340	1030	[B]33[/B]	84
4.	Andy Murray	197	635	[B]31[/B]	49
5.	Fabio Fognini	237	771	[B]31[/B]	67
6.	Kei Nishikori	181	603	[B]30[/B]	53
7.	N.Davydenko	137	493	[B]28[/B]	44
8.	Gilles Simon	195	712	[B]27[/B]	58
9.	T.Robredo	188	704	[B]27[/B]	56
10.	Roger Federer	203	783	[B]26[/B]	62

[B]2014 Return Games Won[/B]
                        Won	Total    [B]%[/B]	Matches
1.	Rafael Nadal	249	712	[B]35[/B]	59
2.	Novak Djokovic	287	862	[B]33[/B]	69
3.	David Ferrer	309	941	[B]33[/B]	78
4.	Andy Murray	303	951	[B]32[/B]	75
5.	Pablo Andujar	141	487	[B]29[/B]	44
6.	Kei Nishikori	232	842	[B]28[/B]	66
7.	Fabio Fognini	199	729	[B]27[/B]	60
8.	Gael Monfils	162	598	[B]27[/B]	47
9.	R.Bautista Agut	209	797	[B]26[/B]	64
10.	Roger Federer	260	998	[B]26[/B]	78
Click to expand...

Murray appears to have been a return expert right from the get go. Djokovic really had to work at it and his return game matured a lot later.

It wasn't like Murray's ground game was monstrous back in his younger days, so him immediately making it high onto the lists in 2006 and 2007 is impressive, and indicative of his natural talent for returning.

Bear in mind that Nadal's return game % looks impressive in 2012 but is inflated due to his year being virtually written off after RG.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Djokovic2011

Djokovic2011

Bionic Poster
Backspin1183 said:
His return is always one of the best in the world. It's the serve he needs to work on. Wimbledon 2008, US Open 2010 and USO series of 2013 were won with better serve than standard Nadal serve.
Click to expand...

Like octo, I do a lot of wondering and I sometimes wonder what happened to that serve..........
 
SLD76

SLD76

G.O.A.T.
smoledman said:
Why does he struggle against big servers like Roddick, Karlovic, Isner and now lately Fed? Can't really call him the best returner of all time with that flaw.
Click to expand...

Agree. Also struggles on the return in faster conditions
Murray served him off the court in 2012 Dubai.
 
N

Nathaniel_Near

Guest
Ferrer, Davydenko, Djokovic Murray and maybe Nadal, Nalbandian, Hewitt and Monaco should be considered for the best returner of the Fedalovic era.

In terms of who has the best return game over the course of that era, Nadal and Djokovic should be considered.

Nishikori and Fognini are on the rise.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
N

Nathaniel_Near

Guest
Code: 
[B]2003 1st Serve Return Points Won[/B]
                        Won	Total    [B]%[/B]	Matches
1.	Nicolas Massu	1023	2262	45	56
2.	J.I.Chela	1172	2696	43	63
3.	Albert Costa	921	2239	41	44
4.	Guillermo Coria	1287	3209	40	76
5.	J.C.Ferrero	1461	3643	40	88
6.	Roger Federer	1665	4183	40	95
7.	Carlos Moya	1455	3692	39	80
8.	V.Spadea	973	2475	39	59
9.	Gaston Gaudio	1051	2697	39	66
10.	Tim Henman	799	2091	38	48

[B]2004 1st Serve Return Points Won[/B]
                        Won	Total    [B]%[/B]	Matches
1.	J.I.Chela	977	2777	35	61
2.	Roger Federer	1244	3579	35	80
3.	F.Volandri	723	2098	34	53
4.	Lleyton Hewitt	1307	3824	34	86
5.	David Ferrer	966	2865	34	60
6.	Gaston Gaudio	1005	2993	34	61
7.	G.Canas	1007	3024	33	62
8.	Nicolas Massu	873	2643	33	70
9.	Guillermo Coria	743	2268	33	53
10.	Rafael Nadal	597	1824	33	47

[B]2005 1st Serve Return Points Won[/B]
                        Won	Total    [B]%[/B]	Matches
1.	Rafael Nadal	1520	4123	37	89
2.	Guillermo Coria	1395	3843	36	82
3.	David Ferrer	1191	3329	36	72
4.	N.Davydenko	1268	3577	35	86
5.	Gaston Gaudio	1182	3375	35	76
6.	Roger Federer	1486	4283	35	85
7.	F.Volandri	772	2227	35	56
8.	D.Nalbandian	1020	3011	34	63
9.	Gael Monfils	756	2304	33	47
10.	T.Robredo	1084	3314	33	68

[B]2006 1st Serve Return Points Won[/B]
                        Won	Total    [B]%[/B]	Matches
1.	N.Davydenko	1510	4286	35	98
2.	Roger Federer	1719	4939	35	97
3.	Andy Murray	1027	3004	34	65
4.	Lleyton Hewitt	857	2513	34	48
5.	Olivier Rochus	914	2726	34	53
6.	F.Volandri	773	2309	33	61
7.	D.Nalbandian	1006	3018	33	63
8.	David Ferrer	998	3029	33	67
9.	Gaston Gaudio	763	2320	33	48
10.	James Blake	1301	3960	33	84

[B]2007 1st Serve Return Points Won[/B]
                        Won	Total    [B]%[/B]	Matches
1.	N.Davydenko	1440	4161	35	84
2.	David Ferrer	1266	3661	35	84
3.	Rafael Nadal	1361	3944	35	85
4.	Andy Murray	840	2471	34	57
5.	Roger Federer	1339	3945	34	77
6.	F.Volandri	623	1863	33	45
7.	R.Gasquet	1000	3026	33	73
8.	G.Canas	        901	2727	33	60
9.	J.I.Chela	1075	3258	33	65
10.	Juan Monaco	924	2850	32	60

[B]2008 1st Serve Return Points Won[/B]
                        Won	Total    [B]%[/B]	Matches
1.	Rafael Nadal	1456	4225	34	93
2.	N.Davydenko	1138	3349	34	77
3.	David Ferrer	1068	3198	33	67
4.	F.Verdasco	1178	3529	33	74
5.	Andy Murray	1195	3615	33	74
6.	J.M.D.Potro	810	2455	33	62
7.	Gael Monfils	719	2203	33	47
8.	Novak Djokovic	1183	3648	32	81
9.	Roger Federer	1316	4085	32	81
10.	James Blake	1043	3257	32	71

[B]2009 1st Serve Return Points Won[/B]
                        Won	Total    [B]%[/B]	Matches
1.	Andy Murray	1263	3622	35	77
2.	N.Davydenko	1179	3441	34	74
3.	Juan Monaco	881	2583	34	62
4.	Rafael Nadal	1168	3495	33	80
5.	Novak Djokovic	1491	4472	33	97
6.	Marin Cilic	1144	3451	33	69
7.	David Ferrer	961	2975	32	68
8.	Stan Wawrinka	776	2461	32	51
9.	Fabio Fognini	628	1996	31	46
10.	T.Robredo	1034	3290	31	71

[B]2010 1st Serve Return Points Won[/B]
                        Won	Total    [B]%[/B]	Matches
1.	J.I.Chela	860	2426	35	52
2.	Juan Monaco	805	2328	35	50
3.	Roger Federer	1320	3904	34	78
4.	Novak Djokovic	1179	3488	34	79
5.	J.C.Ferrero	713	2124	34	47
6.	David Ferrer	1198	3620	33	84
7.	Andy Murray	1002	3115	32	64
8.	Viktor Troicki	912	2843	32	67
9.	N.Davydenko	723	2259	32	49
10.	Stan Wawrinka	822	2571	32	55

[B]2011 1st Serve Return Points Won[/B]
                        Won	Total    [B]%[/B]	Matches
1.	Andy Murray	1234	3328	37	65
2.	Novak Djokovic	1186	3325	36	75
3.	J.I.Chela	888	2577	34	52
4.	Rafael Nadal	1289	3769	34	78
5.	Viktor Troicki	971	2841	34	61
6.	Juan Monaco	849	2490	34	52
7.	N.Davydenko	762	2270	34	50
8.	Gael Monfils	955	2879	33	53
9.	Roger Federer	1151	3488	33	73
10.	Fabio Fognini	744	2262	33	49

[B]2012 1st Serve Return Points Won[/B]
                        Won	Total    [B]%[/B]	Matches
1.	Rafael Nadal	870	2299	38	48
2.	Novak Djokovic	1500	4238	35	87
3.	Gilles Simon	1105	3238	34	66
4.	Juan Monaco	893	2624	34	55
5.	David Ferrer	1347	3974	34	85
6.	Carlos Berlocq	824	2449	34	55
7.	Kei Nishikori	825	2485	33	52
8.	Benoit Paire	893	2739	33	52
9.	Marin Cilic	900	2774	32	56
10.	Andy Murray	1212	3770	32	72

[B]2013 1st Serve Return Points Won[/B]
                        Won	Total    [B]%[/B]	Matches
1.	Novak Djokovic	1422	4022	35	76
2.	Rafael Nadal	1263	3628	35	81
3.	David Ferrer	1423	4171	34	84
4.	Andy Murray	838	2488	34	49
5.	Fabio Fognini	1021	3069	33	67
6.	Roger Federer	1060	3213	33	62
7.	T.Robredo	927	2842	33	56
8.	Gael Monfils	900	2775	32	55
9.	N.Davydenko	612	1895	32	44
10.	Gilles Simon	914	2847	32	58

[B]2014 1st Serve Return Points Won[/B]
                        Won	Total    [B]%[/B]	Matches
1.	Rafael Nadal	998	2855	35	59
2.	David Ferrer	1297	3799	34	78
3.	Gael Monfils	822	2452	34	47
4.	Andy Murray	1274	3813	33	75
5.	Novak Djokovic	1127	3441	33	69
6.	G.Garcia-Lopez	842	2610	32	51
7.	Roger Federer	1271	3962	32	78
8.	Pablo Andujar	594	1868	32	44
9.	Fabio Fognini	902	2850	32	60
10.	R.Bautista Agut	961	3091	31	64

For best return of the 1st serve, contenders appear to be: Chela, Federer, Davydenko, Nadal, Murray, Djokovic, Ferrer, Monaco, Hewitt.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
E

eldanger25

Hall of Fame
Djokovic, Agassi, Connors in some order. The best of the best. Connors getting everything back with the T-2000 was insane; Agassi's reckless abandon was beautiful to watch; and Djokovic is perhaps the best mind-f*ck returner - to have the ball rifling back toward your shoelaces a heartbeat after a well-struck serve can really mess with one's head.
 
N

Nathaniel_Near

Guest
Looking at these stats, I'm struggling to see Djokovic even as the best returner of his era, never mind all-time. Maybe he has the best return game of the era along with Nadal, but perhaps not the best return outright. He almost certainly doesn't have the best return of 1st serves. Nadal has a very good return, but I don't think it's as good as the stats might infer it to be, but rather that he is also simply the most dominant pure exponent of baseline tennis that the era has offered up.

BTW eldanger, there are further responses in the state of mind thread which you might be interested to check out.
 
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N

Nathaniel_Near

Guest
In "moments of need", much like with the Sampras serve, one might choose the Djokovic return.
 
N

Nathaniel_Near

Guest
Djokovic2011 said:
I'm gonna watch the 2011 USO final highlights to remind myself just how great Novak's return is. :smile:
Click to expand...

If you look at the statistics, Djokovic appears to have produced the highest ever peak regarding the return game from 1994 onwards, and, by extension, possibly also the return. Obviously, the year in question is 2011.
 
E

eldanger25

Hall of Fame
Nathaniel_Near said:
Looking at these stats, I'm struggling to see Djokovic even as the best returner of his era, never mind all-time. Maybe he has the best return game of the era along with Nadal, but perhaps not the best return outright. He almost certainly doesn't have the best return of 1st serves. Nadal has a very good return, but I don't think it's as good as the stats might infer it to be, but rather that he is also simply the most dominant pure exponent of baseline tennis that the era has offered up.

BTW eldanger, there are further responses in the state of mind thread which you might be interested to check out.
Click to expand...

Gotcha, thanks - will give those a gander soon.
 
Backspin1183

Backspin1183

Talk Tennis Guru
Djokovic2011 said:
Like octo, I do a lot of wondering and I sometimes wonder what happened to that serve..........
Click to expand...

It was Nadal raising his service level, not his normal level, unfortunately. He was serving very well at AO 2014 in the first week. I thought he would go on to win the tournament but then he started serving worse and worse and got beat by Stan in the final. After AO 2014 he started serving worse than his standard level. I don't know if he's serving well again or not. Your boy Djoko's serve is better now than was in the past.
 
J

jg153040

G.O.A.T.
No, Djokovic is not the greatest returner of all time. I understand Serbian, so I'm an expert and authority about Djokovic here, so people should listen my expertise here.
 
m2nk2

m2nk2

Hall of Fame
Djokovic2011 said:
I'm gonna watch the 2011 USO final highlights to remind myself just how great Novak's return is. :smile:
Click to expand...

Yes, go back to one match 4 years ago :)

Instead look at people from the 90s, like Agassi and Bjorkman. They did what did without poly strings and during a time when you had fast courts/balls.

Djoko wouldn't survive then :)
 
N

Nathaniel_Near

Guest
Is he the best returner of the Fedalovic era? OR is it Ferrer? Or someone else?

Return game statistics rely on the strength of one's ground game and not just the return itself.

Djokovic and Nadal have consistently produced the best return game stats over the last several years.
 
SLD76

SLD76

G.O.A.T.
Nathaniel_Near said:
Looking at these stats, I'm struggling to see Djokovic even as the best returner of his era, never mind all-time. Maybe he has the best return game of the era along with Nadal, but perhaps not the best return outright. He almost certainly doesn't have the best return of 1st serves. Nadal has a very good return, but I don't think it's as good as the stats might infer it to be, but rather that he is also simply the most dominant pure exponent of baseline tennis that the era has offered up.

BTW eldanger, there are further responses in the state of mind thread which you might be interested to check out.
Click to expand...

Ok I'll be the one to say it....does the fact that Rafa is often MIA after the USO have much bearing on the return stats.


That is to say the bulk of his returns are on clay where he is camped out 2 light years behind the baseline.
 
N

Nathaniel_Near

Guest
SLD76 said:
Ok I'll be the one to say it....does the fact that Rafa is often MIA after the USO have much bearing on the return stats.


That is to say the bulk of his returns are on clay where he is camped out 2 light years behind the baseline.
Click to expand...

It has been mentioned (in an earlier edited post).

You know in which years Nadal played more or less a full season though, and can see that his stats are impressive—unquestionably so. But in his case, I think a lot of it is explained through him being the best baseliner that the tour has had to offer over the last 10 years. it's also interesting, how much Nadal improved his return game win % in 2011 over 2010.
 
Djokovic2011

Djokovic2011

Bionic Poster
m2nk2 said:
Yes, go back to one match 4 years ago :)

Instead look at people from the 90s, like Agassi and Bjorkman. They did what did without poly strings and during a time when you had fast courts/balls.

Djoko wouldn't survive then :)
Click to expand...

Not Novak's fault that the ATP slowed the courts down m2nk2. :) After all he can only play in the conditions afforded to him. I think he'd've done just fine in the 90s.
 
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