MeatTornado
Talk Tennis Guru
Cue Ken Rosewall being right.
2019 French Open SF: [1] Djokovic vs. [4] Thiem
- Thread starter uscwang
- Start date
Bertie B
Hall of Fame
If I'm reading the astrology right, the planets have moved on for Federer. He was on a wave that came to shore in 2018.
Roger's second breath ran from 2014 to 2018. Djokovic stopped him in the first half. However, Djokovic down-cycled in 2016 which allowed Federer to make the most of the second half of that wave (2016 - 2018). Well that has come to an end, season has changed.
V
Vamos Rafa Nadal
Guest
Is there some way the two identical threads can be merged?
Walrus Gumball
Rookie
BeatlesFan
Bionic Poster
Exactly. Thiem trains six hours a day from mid-November to late December. People thought Stanimal would be tired after his Tsitsipas marathon and he showed no signs of fatigue at all. Thiem will lose tomorrow, but not because he'll be tired.
D
Deleted member 763691
Guest
One of Thiem's tools will be missing - the backhand.
Rafa's ball on Roland Garros clay is too high for Thiem's backhand, and that is why Rafa has won all 9 of their sets here
BeatlesFan
Bionic Poster
swordtennis
G.O.A.T.
Djokovic is the one who has a chance to beat Nadal here but Thiem is the 2nd best claycourter and beats djokovic. Have to put Tim in Nadals half to mix it up a bit i guess.
Very proud of Thiem tho he will be evicerated in straight sets most likely.
Very proud of Thiem tho he will be evicerated in straight sets most likely.
Poisoned Slice
Bionic Poster
Federer and Del Potro
Bionic Poster
Nick Savrinn. He will put up a fight but be liquidated none the less.
Meles
Bionic Poster
Pretty sure the response was Federe 2011 on clay. Djoko2011 v Thiem? Probably condition dependent. I'm not so sure Djoko2011 handles Thiem at RG in typical conditions (high bouncing and fasterer). Thiem has a tremendous record at RG early in his career and even though Djoko was formidable. Remember Nole was SF in 2007 and 2008, R32 loss to Kohly 2009, Austrian lightweight Melzer QF in 2010. Thiem has SF, SF, Final, Final or betterer run going and is a horse at RG.
Nole coming into this match had nearly 60% points won at RG. Thiem was 56.3% points won in 2017 when in full form and 54.7% in 2018 when finding his form at RG. Djoko before 2011 had very forgettable numbers at RG and his losing years not as strong as Thiem's 2017 run. Add to this that injury probably robbed Thiem of peak form this year and its very clear by the numbers that Thiem is the superior player at RG.
One also has to remember that Djoko matches up well with Rafa and Thiem has had his numbers decimated by some decisive defeats (2017 was one of Nadal's peak year to boot and Thiem still hit that 56.3% number. Thiem is just entering his peak period this year.
Meles
Bionic Poster
If it had been dry and fast Thiem probably would have like that better; the winners would have been flying.
Meles
Bionic Poster
Thiem's slice and dropper tore Novak up in this match. When they were hitting topspin backhands most of the match Thiem was under extreme pressure in those exchanges (maybe late in the match as conditions dried in the sun Thiem was able to do some damage with the big backhand.)
TearTheRoofOff
G.O.A.T.
Fun fact: It took me an embarrassing number of years to discover the pretty sound reason why the singer for Mr. Bungle sounded a lot like the singer from Faith No More.
F
FRV
Guest
I heard the match resumes at 11am eastern time, but can't find it anywhere. Can anyone help me? I woke up early for this.
Meles
Bionic Poster
Another mighty buffoon post; were you even aware of the extreme wind and damp conditions?
Meles
Bionic Poster
Considering the sad state of affairs in the clay court field and the draws Nadsy has been receiving it is comical indeed, but that actually is a double edged sword.
This is a crack pipe.
RF-18
Talk Tennis Guru
If it had been dry and fast Thiem probably would have like that better; the winners would have been flying.
I meant the conditions played a part in Djokovic charging the net so many times. He had like 80 net approaches, must be a record for him.
But as for Thiem: yes Thiem would have liked sun and peaceful conditions, but so would Djokovic. It helped Thiem that Djokovic couldn't play the game he wanted, wich is staying close to the baseline and dictate play with his precision and taking the ball early. With the strong wind it's hard to do that, especially yesterday.
Picmun
Hall of Fame
If it had been dry and fast Thiem probably would have like that better; the winners would have been flying.
mightyrick
Legend
Another mighty buffoon post; were you even aware of the extreme wind and damp conditions?
Mighty buffoon? Ouch.
To answer your question... of course I was aware the conditions were tough -- I mean that is how tennis works. I'm saying that you have to mentally hold it together in spite of external factors in the important moments to win the top titles in the world. Thiem and Djokovic both had major problems in that area today. Contrast that with Federer and Nadal yesterday. Both played in the same conditions (arguably worse conditions) but they both actually held it together mentally, adapted, and put together a pretty decent match.
You need your eyes examined if you think that Djokovic and Thiem were at their mental peak in the important moments in this match. They were horrible during those moments... and it wasn't always on the side of the court against the wind.
So let's review. Good tennis matches happen when both players hold it together mentally. A poor tennis match happens when one player loses it mentally. The worst tennis matches happen when both players lose it mentally.
hipolymer
Hall of Fame
The same exact thing happened during the USO 2012 final. Tennis is NOT an outdoor sport and yet that's what it developed into, and now we have greedy tennis leaders who have no problems with players playing in 100 degree heat, in 50mph winds, in mud-drenched clay. This is what happens when greed supersedes care for tennis quality. These people never cared about tennis quality in the first place. Their concern is with making tennis to be some gladiator spectacle bull-**** sport, because if tennis were always indoors then that would mean they'd actually have to spend money on proper facilities.
helterskelter
G.O.A.T.
With today's result, Djokovic fails to move above Federer for career performance at Roland Garros:
Federer: Won 1, Runner-Up 4, Losing Semi-Finalist 3, Losing Quarter-Finalist 4.
Djokovic: Won 1, Runner-Up 3, Losing Semi-Finalist 5, Losing Quarter-Finalist 4.
Had Djokovic equaled Federer's five finals, he'd have had the edge overall thanks to having made nine semis to Federer's eight. As it is, Federer stays marginally ahead, whether we count the extra runner-up as decisive or allow that the two extra semis equals the one extra final (because in the latter case, the extra quarter-final of Federer puts him ahead anyway). Without Federer himself making the semis this year, you could argue that Djokovic would have pulled ahead or tied with his semi-final appearance.
Federer: Won 1, Runner-Up 4, Losing Semi-Finalist 3, Losing Quarter-Finalist 4.
Djokovic: Won 1, Runner-Up 3, Losing Semi-Finalist 5, Losing Quarter-Finalist 4.
Had Djokovic equaled Federer's five finals, he'd have had the edge overall thanks to having made nine semis to Federer's eight. As it is, Federer stays marginally ahead, whether we count the extra runner-up as decisive or allow that the two extra semis equals the one extra final (because in the latter case, the extra quarter-final of Federer puts him ahead anyway). Without Federer himself making the semis this year, you could argue that Djokovic would have pulled ahead or tied with his semi-final appearance.
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mightyrick
Legend
You really need to do a better job of trolling.
hipolymer
Hall of Fame
Tennis was originally on wooden hard indoor...It then developed into a rich-person's LAWN GAME. They would only play in pleasant conditions.
If you knew about tennis history you know it only started becoming a gladiator sport with the introduction of clay. And for that reason we have grunts like Rafito who run 3 meters behind the baseline, waste 30 seconds between points, and 120sqin rackets. Tennis is a farce now.
clayqueen
Talk Tennis Guru
Djokovic post match presser
https://www.rolandgarros.com/en-us/video/press-conference-djokovic-semi-final-rg19
https://www.rolandgarros.com/en-us/video/press-conference-djokovic-semi-final-rg19
abmk
Bionic Poster
TheStrongRule brought up an old conversation from a different thread. I responded to that.
Genious at Work
G.O.A.T.
Who are the 3 top players of the last 15 years?Considering the sad state of affairs in the clay court field and the draws Nadsy has been receiving it is comical indeed, but that actually is a double edged sword.
clayqueen
Talk Tennis Guru
Typo - 60 UEs
Genious at Work
G.O.A.T.
Genious at Work
G.O.A.T.
Are you saying it should go back to be only played on lawns in pleasant conditions by rich people, or on harwood floors?
I think you’re all discounting the wind too much. Novak clearly has great trouble timing his ground strokes into the wind - surely that’s why he was coming to the net so much on that side - pretty sure the splits would show he came to net much more often on that side than into the wind. I bet Thiem was just going for solid hits rather than precision passes on some of those.
Pretty sure the break rate was well over 50% serving into the wind today for both players. Not sure I’d call that choking.
hipolymer
Hall of Fame
No, although clearly more indoor tournaments need to be added, more indoor wood, indoor grass, indoor clay. What I"m saying is that at the very least, a rule needs to be enacted to forbid play in conditions exceeding 10mph wind or 90 degree weather. Preferably tennis would only be played in 70 degree weather but the greed of tennis overlords will never allow any of this.
Winners or Errors
Legend
So, based on what I'm reading, moral victory for Djokovic?
clayqueen
Talk Tennis Guru
Why was Djokovic complaining about the weather, he said the new improved PC feels like indoors to him
Genious at Work
G.O.A.T.
Tennis players nowadays have better nutrition, better physical conditioning, and better technology than ever before. I don't think there is a need for further pampering. Your wish to have more indoor tournaments is legitimate though I don't share it. If you want to be a purist you might as well demand matches to be played with wooden rackets and gut. Tennis has evolved like everything else. This mythical sport you refer to has been dead for 100 years and I don't believe it was superior to the sport that these guys and other people like Borg, McEnroe, and Laver have made legendary.
You might want to consider taking up badmington.
The idea that clay tennis is not tennis also is so worn out and moronic. Tennis is a varied sport and that is a good thing. If that platitude were true then Fed would have never won RG and Nadal would have never won Wimbledon or the US just like Wayne Gretzky never won the Champions League.
Your level of trolling is quite sad
hipolymer
Hall of Fame
It's not about pampering, but about assuring tennis quality, fairness to all players (as some players will be scheduled to play in grueling heat, while others given the evening session constantly, or scheduled to play on a day with conditions much more preferable to them). I don't have a predilection for the past, as I am encouraging new rules to be implemented; that is progressivism, not traditionalism
I'm not opposed to having a single slam solely be about endurance tennis and grueling conditions, but if that is to be the case, then extra measures MUST be taken so all players are given fair chances. This tournament, is not NEARLY close to achieving this ideal. Rafa and Roger playing in 20 mph wind, but Thiem and Djoker having to play in 45 mph wind and then 4 straight days? The organizers KNEW that the day was gonna be windy and rainy for the entire day, and yet they still decided to put Thiem and Djoker on the same court as Fedal, AFTER their match.
This is a farce, and completely eliminates any notion of fairness and claims of adherence to a tennis quality standard.
I'm not a purist. My point is having VARIETY. Why NOT have a single masters that's a throwback to how things used to be by mandating wooden rackets? Or a few tournaments like that to incentivize players training with wooden rackets. Doing such a thing would INCREASE the quality of play of "regular" sized racket play. But we all know the tennis overlords don't care about tennis quality, so none of this will ever happen.
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BeatlesFan
Bionic Poster
Very little wind forecasted. A cloudy day with a high of 68 degrees. 20% chance of rain early in the day.
hipolymer
Hall of Fame
Your level of ideological charity is quite deplorable, and your claims to tennis fandom even lower
BeatlesFan
Bionic Poster
Interesting to see Clay slay the Djokovic fans. I thought she only had a hard on for Fed fans. Good to see Clay be an equal opportunity abuser. You go, girl!
Genious at Work
G.O.A.T.
No sport is fair. How is it fair for Federer to have access to the best training facilities and healthcare in the world while the #100 player in the world struggles financially?
What is fair is that in a single match both players are subject to the same conditions. It was windy for Thiem too and he won.
IIRC Nadal played 4 consecutive days up to the Wimbledon 2008 Final, didn't he?
Genious at Work
G.O.A.T.
What is a "quality" match for you?
hipolymer
Hall of Fame
It's not really "slaying" to have no logic nor argumentative ability. The court being lower bouncing than usual has nothing to do with 40mph winds and insulting scheduling which removes any notion of match rhythm.
This is one of thee stupidest posts I've ever seen on this forum, and that's saying something. Are you going to apply this farcical logic to other sports? Hey, two teams play in the rain in the World Cup, and the two teams that the winner of the rain game next play got to play in sunshine; how is that fair? Football, basecall, etc. By your logic, they should cancel games unless the the teams are always playing in almost the exact same conditions.
mightyrick
Legend
Although, there are equally moronic football fans who say the same thing about World Cup. I always see complaints about how it wasn't fair that Germany doesn't give enough ball-time to their opponents with their ball-hogging, score-a-goal-and-stay-back, defensive style. I see some who say World Cup actually needs to be indoor because of similar scheduling issues and turf conditions throughout the world. As you say, every sport has these morons.
The one consistent thing among all of them is that they are extremely butthurt because their favorite(s) didn't win.
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