2021 US Open SF: [1] Novak Djokovic vs. [4] Alexander Zverev

[Djokovic_is_the_best#1]

Now now, don't be like this.

You are one of the best Federer fans. Kudos to you and I wish more of them were like you.

 

[The Fedfather]

Ignoring any debate about just how high a level Novak or his opponents have displayed in this calendar slam – what strikes me is just how monument this has all been as a feat of mental strength. Novak’s back has been against the wall over and over, and every time he comes through. Every. Single. Time. You can tell he’s fighting his own nerves, you can see how tight he’s gotten at times, and it’s just incredible to watch the way he pushes all that aside and basically wills himself to a win. It’s gotta be a mind boggling amount of pressure he’s under, and its mind boggling that he hasn’t buckled beneath it.

True. He is an incredible player and mentality wise is solid as a rock. It needs to be said, however, that it's a bit more mind boggling how much worse the other good players now are when it comes to dealing with pressure. It's professional sport and the top guys are cooked in pressure so how come they are so poor at handling it?

 

[FedrMatt]

I definitely think peak Roddick, Hewitt, Safin would be able to get him once or twice, but come on. You said this:

Let’s not even get into the other names you listed lol. You’ve essentially said he would not only lose in 2004-07, he would lose regularly to the rest of the top 20, aka he would be a middling 12th ranked player or something in that era. Joking or what?

Roddick, and Safin had winning records against Novak, and they were older.

Hewitt was taking sets off peak Novak after a gazillion surgeries. 35 year old Novak would be beaten by 2002-2006 Hewitt.

Prime Baghdatis was making headway at Wimbledon, the AO and USO all the time. Sure he probably wouldn’t have a winning record, and I may have exaggerated, but my point is to contrast the depth in the field from 2004-07 compared to now.

 

[NoleFam]

He was talking about the years 17-18, not particular USOs.
2017 USO was weak on men's side, but it did have the delpo-Thiem thriller. Not the problem of others if you can't remember it.

Thiem/Del Potro 2017 was hardly a thriller. It was destruction in the 1st two sets against a visibly dead Del Potro who suddenly came to life and Thiem choked the match away.

 

[jltman]

Roddick, and Safin had winning records against Novak, and they were older.

Hewitt was taking sets off peak Novak after a gazillion surgeries. 35 year old Novak would be beaten by 2002-2006 Hewitt.

You look foolish.

No matter how much you defend him, Roger will never love you as much as you love him

 

[Deleted member 748597]

My list is bigger now. @Federer and Del Potro

 

[FedrMatt]

No matter how much you defend him, Roger will never love you as much as you love him

I’m not talking in defence of Roger lol. I’m talking in opposition to the notion that this time is anything but an extremely weak era.

 

[NoleFam]

First week was great. Many enjoyable matches on mens and womens side (I've been watching a lot) . QF onward on mens side has been ****.

QF onwards hasn't been as good but this was a good match tonight. This definitely wasn't what I would call ****.

 

[Federer and Del Potro]

My list is bigger now. @Federer and Del Potro

 

[Kralingen]

Roddick, and Safin had winning records against Novak, and they were older.

Hewitt was taking sets off peak Novak after a gazillion surgeries. 35 year old Novak would be beaten by 2002-2006 Hewitt.

You look foolish.

OK so if 19-20 year old Djokovic was #3 in the world and won 2 masters in ‘07, and got to 3 Slam SFs…

Do you really want to tell me you believe he was that much better then, when he was retiring left and right, than now?

 

[FedrMatt]

He turns 35 in May.

So he’s the same age as Roger was at the 2016 AO?

 

[abmk]

Thiem/Del Potro 2017 was hardly a thriller. It was destruction in the 1st two sets against a visibly dead Del Potro who suddenly came to life and Thiem choked the match away.

I was there at the USO watching it. It wasn't anywhere near the highest quality by any means, anyone who says it wasn't a thriller doesn't know what the hell he/she is talking about.
The last 2 sets in particular were pretty thrilling.
Delpo did well to comeback in that match. But hey of course, its not Djokovic, so its only Thiem choking, am I rite?

 

[FedrMatt]

OK so if 19-20 year old Djokovic was #3 in the world and won 2 masters in ‘07…

Do you really want to tell me you believe he was that much better then, when he was retiring left and right, than now?

I’m not talking about Novak’s level. I’m talking about the level of his competition.

What is so hard to understand?

 

[Deleted member 748597]

So he’s the same age as Roger was at the 2016 AO?

I'm just correcting you, child.

 

[WhiskeyEE]

I was there at the USO watching it. It wasn't anywhere near the highest quality by any means, anyone who says it wasn't a thriller doesn't know what the hell he/she is talking about.
The last 2 sets in particular were pretty thrilling.

The 3rd set was the most tense for me.

 

[NoleFam]

I was there at the USO watching it. It wasn't anywhere near the highest quality by any means, anyone who says it wasn't a thriller doesn't know what the hell he/she is talking about.
The last 2 sets in particular were pretty thrilling.

Ok whatever you need to believe. It was a massive choke from Thiem, and one of the worst of his career. He had no business losing that match. At least in 2018, Nadal played amazing after the 1st set and took the match away from him at the end. He had so many chances in 2017. Then Del Potro in the next round played one decent set, and was trash the rest of the match.

 

[FedrMatt]

I'm just correcting you, child.

I know, and it backfired, kid.

 

[Kralingen]

I’m not talking about Novak’s level. I’m talking about the level of his competition.

What is so hard to understand?

You are though, you said he would be losing regularly to the top 20 in 2004-2007, lol.

I’m on your side on this weak era stuff, I always thought 2004-07 was underrated, but when you start saying stuff like ‘21 Djokovic would be losing to “peak Baghdatis” I have to laugh.

 

[Deleted member 748597]

I know, and it backfired, kid.

It didn't. Use the correct age when you want to whine about this era.

 

[jltman]

Djokovic would be losing regularly to prime Baghdatis, Safin, Hewitt, Roddick, Nalbandian, Ferrero, Kiefer and most of the top 20 from 2004-07 right now.

hahahahah once again you are in a Djokovic match thread talking up David Nalbandian. You have issues

 

[abmk]

Ok whatever you need to believe. It was a massive choke from Thiem, and one of the worst of his career. He had no business losing that match. At least in 2018, Nadal played amazing after the 1st set and took the match away from him at the end. He had so many chances in 2017. Then Del Potro in the next round played one decent set, and was trash the rest of the match.

LOL, Thiem choked quite a bit in the Nadal match as well. 2nd set, 3rd set and even in the 5th set towards the end a missed overhead.
Delpo also was clutch in the 17 match.

delpo beat fed in 4 sets in his next match.
its why delpo was spent in the semi vs Nadal after 1 set. He had 2 tough matches.

Its hilarious you talking about what I believe when you cant't get basic stuff right, LOL. The delusions abound.
You don't even remember delpo took out fed in the QF, LOL.

 

[NoleFam]

LOL, Thiem choked quite a bit in the Nadal match as well. 2nd set, 3rd set and even in the 5th set towards a missed overhead.
Delpo also was clutch in the 17 match.

delpo beat fed in 4 sets in his next match.
its why delpo was spent in the semi vs Nadal after 1 set. He had 2 tough matches.

Its hilarious you talking about what I believe when you cant't get basic stuff right, LOL. The delusions abound.
You don't even remember delpo took out fed in the QF, LOL.

Ok I'm getting the order mixed up but I still don't agree it was a "classic". Thiem should have won that match and faced Federer, who I think he had a great chance of taking out and potentially faced Nadal in the SF. Total missed opportunity for him considering how he blew a lackluster Del Potro off the court in the 1st two sets. I watched Thiem/Del Potro, Del Potro/Federer and Nadal/Thiem from beginning to end in both years. You're just overrating 2017 for reasons that are obvious. It was a forgettable tournament.

 

[Fabresque]

Bricking the current era for letting Novak win everything meanwhile Federer winning slam finals 6-0 7-6 6-0 is considered the strong era.

 

[abmk]

Ok I'm getting the order mixed up but I still don't agree it was a "classic". Thiem should have won that match and faced Federer, who I think he had a great chance of taking out and potentially faced Nadal in the SF. Total missed opportunity for him considering how he blew a lackluster Del Potro off the court in the 1st two sets. I watched Thiem/Del Potro, Del Potro/Federer and Nadal/Thiem from beginning to end in both years. You're just overrating 2017 for reasons that are obvious. It was a forgettable tournament.

I straight up said USO 17 was weak.

He was talking about the years 17-18, not particular USOs.
2017 USO was weak on men's side, but it did have the delpo-Thiem thriller. Not the problem of others if you can't remember it.

So I'm not overrating USO 17 at all. I'm just exposing your incorrect rubbish stuff. Tells a lot about your evaluation/rememberance of USO 17 when you missed a whole QF involving fed-delpo. I said delpo-thiem was a thriller and it was. I didn't call it a classic. delpo was not well at the start of the match, which is why Thiem was able to dominate him in the 1st 2 sets, your BS revisionism notwithstanding. delpo only woke up towards the 2nd half of the 2nd set.

And finally like I said, mike danny was talking about the whole 17-18 period, not just USO 17, USO 18.

 

[Rickenbacker4003]

Pin this comment. But did anybody else get the impression from the post match interview that Joker might call it career if he wins the Grand Slam on Sunday? The way he said “I’m gonna play Sunday like it’s the last match of my career.”. The way he looked at Patrick McEnroe when he said it almost looked like he was hinting at something. Maybe I’m reading too much into it, but it would be one hell of a way to call it a career.

 

[NoleFam]

I straight up said USO 17 was weak.



So I'm not overrating USO 17 at all. I'm just exposing your incorrect rubbish stuff. Tells a lot about your evaluation/rememberance of USO 17 when you missed a whole QF involving fed-delpo. I said delpo-thiem was a thriller and it was. I didn't call it a classic. delpo was not well at the start of the match, which is why Thiem was able to dominate him in the 1st 2 sets, your BS revisionism notwithstanding. delpo only woke up towards the 2nd half of the 2nd set.

And finally like I said, mike danny was talking about the whole 17-18 period, not just USO 17, USO 18.

Ok.

 

[WhiskeyEE]

Anybody else got the impression from the post match interview that Joker might call it career if he wins the Grand Slam on Sunday? The way he said “I’m gonna play Sunday like it’s the last match of my career.”. The way he looked at Patrick McEnroe when he said it almost looked like he was hinting at something. Maybe I’m reading too much into it, but it would be one hell of a way to call it a career.

Nah. Assuming he wins, he didn't work that hard to get the slam record and then let Nadal potentially tie it up with 1 RG.

He already said earlier this year that he is going to play a lighter schedule from now on. Also, the next gen is coming on strong and it would make sense to wait until they have pushed all of the old guard out.

But hey... Novak's a basketball fan. Maybe he embraces the format of the game 21.

 

[The Fedfather]

Anybody else got the impression from the post match interview that Joker might call it career if he wins the Grand Slam on Sunday? The way he said “I’m gonna play Sunday like it’s the last match of my career.”. The way he looked at Patrick McEnroe when he said it almost looked like he was hinting at something. Maybe I’m reading too much into it, but it would be one hell of a way to call it a career.

Yeah, he made a pregnant pause and all. But he's said previously he wants to play until he's 40 or something so this was more likely him hinting that Medvedev should get the band aid ready for the wounds.

 

[Hera]

Anybody else got the impression from the post match interview that Joker might call it career if he wins the Grand Slam on Sunday? The way he said “I’m gonna play Sunday like it’s the last match of my career.”. The way he looked at Patrick McEnroe when he said it almost looked like he was hinting at something. Maybe I’m reading too much into it, but it would be one hell of a way to call it a career.

I did. It makes sense, I cannot imagine the amount of pressure he has been under, it does take a toll. Thats why his schedule has been dramatically reduced and he has been fighting through every slam. An athlete knows or should know when its time based on your goals, career, etc. Go out like MJ, why not.

 

[Tennisfan339]

Congratulations to both players for this amazing match! I was hoping for a close match with twists and suspense, I wasn't disappointed (although I didn't see the 5 sets coming, I must admit).

Zverev is really getting closer and closer. Really has nothing to be ashamed of. No one has a right to call him a mug or pathetic after this match. NOBODY else could've beaten him in this USO. He isn't my favorite of the next gen, but I wish him to win at least 1 slam next year, he deserves it. He is more multi surface than Medvedev or Tsitsipas... IMO he will be favorite against anyone else (other than Djokovic) in all 4 slams (except maybe Nadal in RG). It seems like he has figured out everyone except Djokovic in BO5 to me.
I forgot how good Djokovic is in 5th sets. His stats are truly amazing, something like 34-10 now. It's crazy.

This match was 50-50 for me. I put Djokovic SLIGHTLY favorite for the final. 1) He is 2-0 in slams against Medvedev and won the last final in straight sets. 2) This win over Zverev will give him HUGE confidence, kind of like after he beat Nadal in RG. Even if Medvedev is 2 sets up it won't be over.
Advantage Medvedev in terms of fatigue/physical recovery, though. 3 quick sets vs 5 long intense sets, plus 6 more hours to recover. + Add the TREMENDOUS amount of pressure he'll have on his shoulders, because of the possible Calendar Slam. If not for these 2 aspects I would've said 70-30 Djokovic. But now I think it's 60-40. If Medvedev believes in him and sees himself as the outsider/underdog, the upset is possible. But if Djokovic maintains this level he had today (barring the 1st set) he should win this in 4, IMO.

I will enjoy reading the 63 pages of this thread now. lol.

 

[I Am Finnish]

But Zverev won the rally and point of the year

 

[jltman]

I did. It makes sense, I cannot imagine the amount of pressure he has been under, it does take a toll. Thats why his schedule has been dramatically reduced and he has been fighting through every slam. An athlete knows or should know when its time based on your goals, career, etc. Go out like MJ, why not.

I thought so too, but that could very well be giving the slam record to Rafa. Can’t imagine he does that

 

[GabeT]

Djokovic would be losing regularly to prime Baghdatis, Safin, Hewitt, Roddick, Nalbandian, Ferrero, Kiefer and most of the top 20 from 2004-07 right now.

Tell us more about your tennis analytical skills

 

[uscwang]

Anybody else got the impression from the post match interview that Joker might call it career if he wins the Grand Slam on Sunday? The way he said “I’m gonna play Sunday like it’s the last match of my career.”. The way he looked at Patrick McEnroe when he said it almost looked like he was hinting at something. Maybe I’m reading too much into it, but it would be one hell of a way to call it a career.

2024 Paris, baby!

 

[jm1980]

a 2HBH baseline pusher is “unique”? Lol

The cumulative stats of this supposed "baseline pusher" in his first 6 matches:

	Djokovic​	Opponents​
Winners	263	200
Net approaches	194/1360 (14.3%)	149/1360 (11.0%)
Net points	141/194 (72.7%)	84/149 (56.4%)

Very interesting "baseline pusher" who hits more winners than his opponents, comes to the net more often than his opponents, and wins more points at the net than his opponents.

 

[Tshooter]

Pin this comment. But did anybody else get the impression from the post match interview that Joker might call it career if he wins the Grand Slam on Sunday?…

One vote no.

 

[HelenCH]

Makes you wonder if he's just fitter than everyone else or something else.....

My immediate family is sure that he's on something.

What were they saying about Federer who won his last slam at 37? What was he on? Newborn's blood and virgin's tears? lol

 

[Krish0608]

The sport needs another unique dominant player with a beautiful aggressive aesthetic game. Enough of these robotic two handed pushers with no forecourt game.

Thankfully we have a storm coming in the name of Alcaraz

 

[Technology Ruined Tennis]

Street ties it up, has momentum on his side. And at the first sign of trouble in the 5th he starts rolling in Little League fastball 2nd serves.

 

[James P]

A selfish part of me, and I'm not meming, wants Djokovic to win this match at this point. If Medvedev is going to get the title, he should have to beat Novak. I do think Novak beats Zverev, but I'm not as confident in that as some are in here.

Now it's time to deliver.

 

[jm1980]

Thankfully we have a storm coming in the name of Alcaraz

Alcaraz has a forecourt game?

Alcaraz net approaches: 95/1108 (8.6%)
Alcaraz net points: 65/95 (68.4%)

He comes in less often than Djokovic does (Djo: 14.3%) and wins fewer points once up at net (Djo: 72.7%)

 

[Krish0608]

Alcaraz has a forecourt game?

Alcaraz net approaches: 95/1108 (8.6%)
Alcaraz net points: 65/95 (68.4%)

He comes in less often than Djokovic does and wins fewer points once up at net

He’s got an aesthetic attacking game and goes for his shots. And he’s got great hands at the net for a guy his age. It’ll get even better.

 

[jm1980]

He’s got an aesthetic attacking game and goes for his shots. And he’s got great hands at the net for a guy his age. It’ll get even better.

I mean these are Nadal level net stats, basically only coming in when the point is already won

 

[junior74]

What were they saying about Federer who won his last slam at 37? What was he on? Newborn's blood and virgin's tears? lol

Tsk tsk. Fraud's parents work in a certain industry, so no need for virgin's tears.

 

[UnforcedTerror]

@NADALalot I see you voted for Djokovic in 5 after the match like many shameless posters, but you are probably the only one who went to edit his recent posts

Djokovic is a notch above Zverev, no chance of Zverev winning.

The comment was nothing like that yesterday. You were confident Djokovic had no chance against Zed who was playing on another level. Why are you so insecure, mate?

 

[mehdimike]

OK so if 19-20 year old Djokovic was #3 in the world and won 2 masters in ‘07, and got to 3 Slam SFs…

Do you really want to tell me you believe he was that much better then, when he was retiring left and right, than now?

In 2009 Novak played 97 singles matches.
In 2011 Novak played 76 singles matches.
Keep in mind peak Rafa played just 93 matches in 2008!
Of course when you overplay you get injured more than usual. How was he injured when he could play 97 matches is one of the biggest mysteries in tennis.

 

[HelenCH]

A 24 year old should be beating a 35 year old 9 times out of 10, especially in BO5.

Not necessarily. In BO3 - yes, but BO5 is a different game. It's like comparing a sprint and a marathon.

 

[Krish0608]

I mean these are Nadal level net stats, basically only coming in when the point is already won

I think you need to go beyond numbers when assessing a guy this young. They don’t tell the whole story. When he’s in a good position, his volleys are very effective, he’s got great hands and really knows how/when to drop the volley and when to slice it deep. He killed Tsitsipas with well timed volleys.

 

[FedrMatt]

The cumulative stats of this supposed "baseline pusher" in his first 6 matches:

	Djokovic​	Opponents​
Winners	263	200
Net approaches	194/1360 (14.3%)	149/1360 (11.0%)
Net points	141/194 (72.7%)	84/149 (56.4%)

Very interesting "baseline pusher" who hits more winners than his opponents, comes to the net more often than his opponents, and wins more points at the net than his opponents.

So Novak is slightly less pusher-y than the weakest men’s era?

Lol

 

[jm1980]

So Novak is slightly less pusher-y than the weakest men’s era?

Lol

Oh, so not only they are "weak" but also pushers as well?