Alcaraz v Nadal at age 20, who is now more accomplished?

[Lleytonstation]

I dont think Carlos is beating 24-26 year old Fed at Wimbledon

He's not.

Let's remember rafa didn't lose his first final.

 

[DSH]

Still RAFA for me. He faced much tougher competition. Heck, he would have been a 3x Wimby champion had it not been for peak/prime Fed. He has more big titles to his name (8 vs 6) and more titles total still (17 vs 12).

Tiny Carl has been YE#1 yes, but that was mostly down to Oldal being injured for a huge chunk of last year and Joker being banned for his choices.

And that Sinner choked that match point at the Open.

 

[Rafa24]

Carlos more accomplished, but Nadal had tougher competition. It's as simple as that.

The tour is a joke now. Joker who isn't close to peak was a couple of points away from being on course to potentially get the calendar slam.

 

[tudwell]

How are (some) people giving grass to Nadal? I’ll grant you that 2006 Federer is a world away from 2023 Djokovic, but Nadal lost to Muller in 05 and very nearly lost to Kendrick in 06. After the 06 grass season Nadal was 11-5 on the surface with no titles, one final, and no top-10 wins.

Alcaraz meanwhile is 16-2 on the surface with two titles and 3 wins over top-10 ranked players (consecutive, all at Wimbledon). Would he have lost to 2006 Federer? I assume so. Would 06 Nadal have beaten 23 Djokovic? Perhaps (not the most favorable matchup). But if we look beyond just their lone respective Wimbledon finals I don’t see how this is even a comparison.

 

[duaneeo]

Alcaraz has year ending number one trophy, that is a big title, just ask Sampras and Connors.

The pressure filled masters finals....Do you think Medvedev stood any chance to win three sets against Alcaraz in IW, or Ruud had in Miami? If those were Best of five, he would have very likely still won them very convincingly. And he crushed Zverev in Madrid final last year, and that after beating Djokodal back to back, so not sure about your Nadal played more best of five finals things...CA wasn't allowed to play them.

I said Alcaraz would've won the Masters if they were BO5. But regardless of BO5 finals/level of competition, I still think 20 year old Nadal is more accomplished. By this time, he had won and defended Roland Garros, made the Wimbledon final, won and defended Monte Carlo/Rome/Barcelona, won Canada and Madrid, made the final of Miami, made the semifinal of YEC, and scored 6 wins over the #1 player.

 

[N01E]

On paper I'd pick Alcaraz (2 different slams > 2 of the same and YE#1 > 2 M1000), but half of his big titles came from closed tournaments and so did the ranking (where he also had less points than teen Rafa). Kind of forced to go with Nadal, though Carlos is better on HC and grass for their age (not even close on clay).

 

[chjtennis]

Alcaraz. Nadal couldn't make finals of HC slams in his early 20s. Alcaraz is already good everywhere and has more variety.

 

[accidental]

Roughly equal but Carlos slightly in front.

The real test will be what Alcaraz does in the next 3-4 years. Nadal has set an incredibly high bar

 

[BGod]

Literally over half of Alcaraz's accomplishments listed in the OP in comparison to Nadal were due to Covid politics so......trash? His Madrid title was a joke. My God people are losing their minds it's Nadal and not even close, losing in 4 sets on grass to peak Fed.

 

[Spencer Gore]

Alcaraz's US Open win unfortunately has a mighty big asterisk next to it as his main opponent wasn't allowed to play. See also the rankings which have been completely messed up due to various shenanigans.

 

[alexio]

nadal is more accomplished, first of all ..two points with the word youngest doesnt exist, why..it will be clear next.. looking at masters titles nadal doesnt trail here for sure, at least nadal having two rg titles no matter what, but tiny has zero slams since hes been put in nadal place thus hes playing with peak fed in 05 at uso and fed 06 at wimby hence zero slams, and now lets put nadal in tiny place and he has at least two slams plus at wimby vs mediocre djoko in windy conditions its kinda 50/50 at least..so its nadal

 

[BGod]

nadal is more accomplished, first of all ..two points with the word youngest doesnt exist, why..it will be clear next.. looking at masters titles nadal doesnt trail here for sure, at least nadal having two rg titles no matter what, but tiny has zero slams since hes been put in nadal place hence hes playing with peak fed in 05 at uso and fed 06 at wimby hence zero slams, and now lets put nadal in tiny place and he has at least two slams plus at wimby vs mediocre djoko its kinda 50/50 at least..so its nadal

No doubt Alcaraz gets 0 Slams just a few years earlier but Nadal you bring up an interesting point.

05-06 Nadal in 22-23 more than likely takes both French, Wimbledon this year, Masters as he did and 2 additional Masters and a WTF.

 

[Razer]

Alcaraz is ahead of Nadal at 20 because of the rank 1 position.

 

[jl809]

Accomplished is Alcaraz no question. Can people not read the thread title

 

[Hitman]

I said Alcaraz would've won the Masters if they were BO5. But regardless of BO5 finals/level of competition, I still think 20 year old Nadal is more accomplished. By this time, he had won and defended Roland Garros, made the Wimbledon final, won and defended Monte Carlo/Rome/Barcelona, won Canada and Madrid, made the final of Miami, made the semifinal of YEC, and scored 6 wins over the #1 player.

While that is fine, lets not kid ourselevs here. His RG semi with Djokovic was the defacto final also. So basically at age 20, Alacraz was a legit contender for slams on all three surfaces, something Nadal wasn't at age 20. And CA defended Barcelona-Madrid double also, but also became youngest to complete the career sunshine masters. Only player to beat Nadal and Djokovic back to back at a clay event also. And dethroned a 7 time Wimbledon champion.

 

[DSH]

Alcaraz. Nadal couldn't make finals of HC slams in his early 20s. Alcaraz is already good everywhere and has more variety.

At RG he has not lived up to the expectations he promised; for now, of course.

 

[Hitman]

Accomplished is Alcaraz no question. Can people not read the thread title

Yep. Many misreading it. Its not about who had it tougher.

 

[Backspin1183]

Alcaraz. He just beat the best version of Djokovic at Wimbledon. And he's only 20!
This man is beyond big 3.

 

[Breakpointerer]

Accomplished is Alcaraz no question. Can people not read the thread title

The problem is the OP wants us to ignore all context and just look at the bare numbers. In which case why even open a thread if you don't want to have a discussion?

 

[Hitman]

The problem is the OP wants us to ignore all context and just look at the bare numbers. In which case why even open a thread if you don't want to have a discussion?

Well, who has the numbers? That is the point. If saw those two trophy cabinets and achievements for the first time, which cabinet would you want as yours? No context, achievements and milestones only, trophies don't show context or who you beat, it simply shows that you won.

 

[MichaelNadal]

The problem is the OP wants us to ignore all context and just look at the bare numbers. In which case why even open a thread if you don't want to have a discussion?

 

[Phoenix*]

Alcaraz. He just beat the best version of Djokovic at Wimbledon. And he's only 20!
This man is beyond big 3.

Na, he struggled with worst Djo since 2017. But still, more accomplished than Nadal at 20.

 

[Breakpointerer]

Well, who has the numbers? That is the point. If saw those two trophy cabinets and achievements for the first time, which cabinet would you want as yours? No context, achievements and milestones only, trophies don't show context or who you beat, it simply shows that you won.

Again, that doesn't allow for much discussion, does it? It's pretty pointless to look at these things in a vacuum because then it's just counting numbers which 5 year olds can do.

 

[weakera]

The problem is the OP wants us to ignore all context and just look at the bare numbers. In which case why even open a thread if you don't want to have a discussion?

Lol

 

[alexio]

Well, who has the numbers?

so whats the problem, i dont see a problem since you answered your question, nadal has the numbers, both with two slams but thanks to masters nadal wins it

 

[Hitman]

Again, that doesn't allow for much discussion, does it? It's pretty pointless to look at these things in a vacuum because then it's just counting numbers which 5 year olds can do.

The discussion is simple, which trophy cabinet do you want. Not who had the greater competition or higher level. I made that clear in the OP, there are plenty of threads that discuss that already.

You walk into a room and see these two cabinets and you can take one home, which one would it be?

 

[Hitman]

so whats the problem, i dont see a problem since you answered your question, nadal has the numbers, both with two slams but thanks to masters nadal wins it

How many year ending world number one trophies?

What do you think Sampras would want? two masters that he used to use at warm ups, or that year ending trophy that be battled so hard to get?

Anyways, what cabinet do you want?

 

[Spencer Gore]

The discussion is simple, which trophy cabinet do you want. Not who had the greater competition or higher level. I made that clear in the OP, there are plenty of threads that discuss that already.

You walk into a room and see these two cabinets and you can take one home, which one would it be?

The one with the most trophies in it?

 

[Hitman]

The one with the most trophies in it?

Sure. If you want two RG titles over 1 Wimbledon + 1 USO title, and 2 masters over Year Ending Number One title, if you choose complete single surface dominance over surface versality and overall dominance over the field as world number one....as for the MM titles, sure why not if they tip it in that direction.

 

[NatF]

It's not about competition or who had the higher level of play.

The question is about who you think is more accomplished, and that means, titles or big achievements like being world number one. You cannot pick your competition.

Djokovic fan moto these days.

 

[Hitman]

Djokovic fan moto these days.

Thread is about trophy cabinets. I've made plenty like this in past.

 

[Backspin1183]

Na, he struggled with worst Djo since 2017. But still, more accomplished than Nadal at 20.

2023 Djokovic is the best in Slams by far. He was just unlucky to meet Alcaraz who's a level above him.

 

[Phoenix*]

2023 Djokovic is the best in Slams by far. He was just unlucky to meet Alcaraz who's a level above him.

Hence Alca won all of the slams.

 

[Backspin1183]

Hence Alca won all of the slams.

He will. He is the new grass and hard courts king.

 

[Phoenix*]

He will. He is the new grass and hard courts king.

Whatever, Djo has 23 of those. The one closest to him is his semi retired pigeon.

 

[Halba]

Alcaraz is ahead in development across all surfaces, and has lesser competition so ahead overall.

 

[Backspin1183]

Whatever, Djo has 23 of those.

 

[jga111]

come on man, he will never amount to anything with that return of serve

lol…of course not. Just a cheeky lil Wimbledon

 

[Phoenix*]

Suffering from success.

 

[Backspin1183]

Suffering from success.

That's you.

 

[Soul_of_Slicehand]

lol…of course not. Just a cheeky lil Wimbledon

with that serve hes set up for a hewiit like career (lol)

 

[aldeayeah]

I don't think Carlos's #1 run is a real advantage over Nadal because of the very different contexts. Djokovic couldn't compete for much of the year in 2022, while Nadal had to deal with JesusFed.

For a realistic comparison, Rafa had 5,125 points after Wimbledon 2006, and this was back when tournament wins gave roughly half as many points.

Which means that at the almost exact same age, Rafa was #2 with more points (5,125 x 2) than Charlie currently has as #1 (9,375)

With that said, I'd say they're similarly accomplished, with a slight edge to Rafa who by that point had already become a complete clay tyrant.

 

[Phoenix*]

That's you.

No, it's you. I'm chillin with 23.

 

[Backspin1183]

No, it's you. I'm chillin with 23.

Good for you. I didn't realise you were Novak Djokovic all along.
Hope you'll get over the tough loss to Carlos sooon.

 

[Phoenix*]

Good for you. I didn't realise you were Novak Djokovic all along.
Hope you'll get over the tough loss to Carlos sooon.

23, easy.

 

[MichaelNadal]

23, easy.

You expected to be having a different morning lol, poor thing

 

[Nole_King]

Picking up breadcrumbs wouldn't make me satisfied. For instance are you more impressed what Djokovic accomplished vs. Nadal/Fed or what he has done against this worthless generation of nothings? Djoker gets critized by vulturing slams since 2018 . The same guys Carlos is vulturing now

So in order for Djokovic to avoid that criticism he needed to lose the slams he won since 2018?

Djokovic won Wim 2018, US 2018, AO 2019, Wim 2019 with both Federer and Nadal participating. The 6 slams before Djokovic won Wim 2018 were shared by Nadal and Federer. So it become vulturing when Djokovic wins them ...

 

[Phoenix*]

You expected to be having a different morning lol, poor thing

That's the semi retired clay guy.

 

[MichaelNadal]

That's the semi retired clay guy.

The one you need to keep attacking bc your target didn't move like you expected keep your threads in draft, you worked so hard on em

 

[tex123]

What's going on here? Avatar plagiarism!! lol