Any Car Audiophiles out there?

[ellipticality_224]

Hey guys,

Am I the only audiophile on this board? If not, just post below what you like and what you don't, I dont think I need to explain, if your an audiophile, you know you are

JL audio and Kenwood is the only thing I run. I will take SQ over loudness ANY DAY, I'm not your typical tool bag rolling down the street with two 12" kickers in a ported box letting everyone in the ZIP code hes there. I like clear Highs, powerful strong mids, and nice warm tonal lows. Sealed enclosures only If your an audiophile you know what I just said, lol I would go into more detail, but...

 

[r2473]

For home audio, I like my LP12 turntable (modded), Hadcock tonearm, Grado cartridge (VPI specs). This all runs into 12w tube amp (modded), which powers a set of klipschhorns. (modded).

 

[LuckyR]

The bottom line is that a car is a pretty darn imperfect location to listen to music. Sure, you can spend whatever you want but anything above decent is not going to give you anywhere the same bang for your buck as a dollar spent on your home system.

 

[ellipticality_224]

The bottom line is that a car is a pretty darn imperfect location to listen to music. Sure, you can spend whatever you want but anything above decent is not going to give you anywhere the same bang for your buck as a dollar spent on your home system.

Whats your opinion on those BEATS Headphones? Ive heard the knock offs sound better than the real ones. Theyre more of a fashion statement than a SQ tool. I like my Klipsch Headphones, Ive also got some s3s for the gym. And as for home system, I dont really have much money available to drop on my home system, along with me not having house, dropping lots of money to put into my dorm and or parents basement when Im home isnt too practical.

 

[NickC]

Whats your opinion on those BEATS Headphones?

You answer your own question below:

Ive heard the knock offs sound better than the real ones.

Truth. The appeal sonically about the BEATS is that supposedly it "sounds" better when in reality Monster just jacks up the low end and sells it off as an improvement. That just distorts what you're supposed to hear.

Theyre more of a fashion statement than a SQ tool.

Quoted for truth. It's all hype and overpriced.

[/thread]

 

[Ronaldo]

For home audio, I like my LP12 turntable (modded), Hadcock tonearm, Grado cartridge (VPI specs). This all runs into 12w tube amp (modded), which powers a set of klipschhorns. (modded).

Why a Uni-pivot and not a Linn arm?

 

[Say Chi Sin Lo]

Whats your opinion on those BEATS Headphones? Ive heard the knock offs sound better than the real ones. Theyre more of a fashion statement than a SQ tool. I like my Klipsch Headphones, Ive also got some s3s for the gym. And as for home system, I dont really have much money available to drop on my home system, along with me not having house, dropping lots of money to put into my dorm and or parents basement when Im home isnt too practical.

I have a pair of Beats Solo HD. Yes, they sound good, but $200 good? Hell no. If you're willing to try out dozens and dozens of headphones out there, you'll find a pair that sound just as good but half the prize. The problem is, non-audiophile wouldn't know where to begin their search nor do they know what to look for. They just go by recognition.

Again, I think Beats are solid headphones, but 50% of the cost goes into the image of wearing Beats.

 

[ellipticality_224]

I have a pair of Beats Solo HD. Yes, they sound good, but $200 good? Hell no. If you're willing to try out dozens and dozens of headphones out there, you'll find a pair that sound just as good but half the prize. The problem is, non-audiophile wouldn't know where to begin their search nor do they know what to look for. They just go by recognition.

Again, I think Beats are solid headphones, but 50% of the cost goes into the image of wearing Beats.

I agree, last year, when I was in High School I heard some guy saying to another one of my friends who is an audiophile as well, "Well, if beats are so bad, then why do all the basketball players wear them coming out of the locker rooms for warm ups?"

Well, one they get paid massive amounts of money to wear them for warmups, two, the reason they pay them is for fools like you who spend 250 dollars plus on mid to low quality headphones that my 70 dollars Klipsch earbuds could match or even outdo, and three, I bet they arent even headphones that theyre wearing, theyre just plastic headphone looking head articles.

I have worn beats before, and I thought they had overpowered bass, and even at that the bass wasnt good. They looked to flashy, and they felt flimsy. I have never worn counterfeits, but I have seen on other forums that they sound better than the real ones. Whats the most expensive beats out there? Studios or Dr. Dres? All I know is they run multi hundreds of dollars, and your high quality in ear earbuds could out do them easily. I use my PULSE Headphones that are made for ps3 gameplay, they run 130 bucks and have adjustable bass on them so you can adjust to what your listening to, but I never go over half. And the warranty on my Klipsch in ears? impeccable, 2 years against all defects, but does not cover abuse (of course)

Plainly said, beats are mid range to mid low quality headphones that are better than your skullcandy juggalo stuff, but for the money, not worth it. Spend it on excess tennis shoes and rackets! Things that are necessary!

P.S. Most people I see with beats (usually a younger crowd around my age 17-24 year olds) arent even wearing them on their ears, they just hang them around their necks and dont even have the aux cable plugged into them, clarly indicative of, "Hey, I just wasted money on a fashion fad."

 

[ellipticality_224]

I agree, last year, when I was in High School I heard some guy saying to another one of my friends who is an audiophile as well, "Well, if beats are so bad, then why do all the basketball players wear them coming out of the locker rooms for warm ups?"

Well, one they get paid massive amounts of money to wear them for warmups, two, the reason they pay them is for fools like you who spend 250 dollars plus on mid to low quality headphones that my 70 dollars Klipsch earbuds could match or even outdo, and three, I bet they arent even headphones that theyre wearing, theyre just plastic headphone looking head articles.

I have worn beats before, and I thought they had overpowered bass, and even at that the bass wasnt good. They looked to flashy, and they felt flimsy. I have never worn counterfeits, but I have seen on other forums that they sound better than the real ones. Whats the most expensive beats out there? Studios or Dr. Dres? All I know is they run multi hundreds of dollars, and your high quality in ear earbuds could out do them easily. I use my PULSE Headphones that are made for ps3 gameplay, they run 130 bucks and have adjustable bass on them so you can adjust to what your listening to, but I never go over half. And the warranty on my Klipsch in ears? impeccable, 2 years against all defects, but does not cover abuse (of course)

Plainly said, beats are mid range to mid low quality headphones that are better than your skullcandy juggalo stuff, but for the money, not worth it. Spend it on excess tennis shoes and rackets! Things that are necessary!

P.S. Most people I see with beats (usually a younger crowd around my age 17-24 year olds) arent even wearing them on their ears, they just hang them around their necks and dont even have the aux cable plugged into them, clarly indicative of, "Hey, I just wasted money on a fashion fad."

When I said fools, I was not referring to the TT member, to make that clear, the fool is the person in the first sentence

 

[ellipticality_224]

Truth. The appeal sonically about the BEATS is that supposedly it "sounds" better when in reality Monster just jacks up the low end and sells it off as an improvement. That just distorts what you're supposed to hear.




[/thread]

Monster is the same company that thinks that you should spend massive amounts of money on HDMI cables for a better picture, with HDMI, you either get a nice picture, or you get no picture at all, its all the same, though audioquest (a cable exclusive company) makes good higher grade HDMI cables that improve the sound area of HDMI and speed and responsiveness of the cable. I have many of their cables, from IPOD cables in my car deck, to the HDMI cables, and I love them

 

[Say Chi Sin Lo]

I think Monster and Beats put out a line of quality product. Is it for everyone? Probably not, but quality nonetheless.

NOW, the real question that I posted earlier is whether or not they're worth the money.

I don't consider myself an audiophile at all, but I know what sounds good TO ME. When I bought the Beats Solo HD, I admit I bought into the hype, marketing, "It's expensive as hell, must be good" logic, and finally, it does sound good to me. However, if I did a little more research and spent more time looking for headphones, I definitely won't get the Beats Solo HD.

I do have post-purchase remorse with my Beats, not because I think it's a bad product, simply because I think I over-spent. I listened to some $100 Sony headphones, and they sound just as good as my Beats Solo HD. I listened to some similarly priced Bose headphones, and they blew my Beats out of the water. But I'm not about to justify a bad purchase with another purchase.

To the average consumer who aren't audiophiles and know everything about music/sound, the plethora of choices on the market can simply confuse the consumer.

Lastly, I heard stuff from AKG aren't half bad either?

 

[hollywood9826]

Monster aint makin beats anymore. Beats didnt renew the deal and are making the stuff by themselves now.

Monster has there own headphones own.

From the sound engineers of Beats by Dr Dre® headphones comes the newest in headphone technology, Monster® DNA™. Hear every detail, feel every beat, and express a bold, iconic, new look.

230 bucks

 

[Fearsome Forehand]

The marketing of stereo equipment is as funny as the marketing of tennis rackets.

When I was a kid, I upgraded the 6x9 rear speakers of my parent's car with speakers called MindBlowers. I think I bought them at Bradlee's which was sort of a Kmart type chain in New England for about $40. They had 30 watt amps attached and were extremely loud/obnoxious which was the whole idea. They were made by a company called Tenna, which was an OEM and aftermarket audio equipment manufacturer out of Cleveland. I think their components were actually made in the USA; imagine that. They went out of business in the mid 1980's. Later, as an adult, I worked in the OEM audio system industry for a number of years.

The typical OEM car system is quite good now compared to what it was in the 1970's/1980's and before. Most don't require upgrades unless you really want to get nuts with subwoofers, etc. Not really worth it IMHO but to each his own.

 

[r2473]

Why a Uni-pivot and not a Linn arm?

I've tried a lot of arms on my rig (and a lot of rigs). This is the best sound for the money I've found. It's tough to get the uni-pivot set up just right (as its tough to get the LP12 setup just right too). But when you do, it sounds great.

 

[LuckyR]

Whats your opinion on those BEATS Headphones? Ive heard the knock offs sound better than the real ones. Theyre more of a fashion statement than a SQ tool. I like my Klipsch Headphones, Ive also got some s3s for the gym. And as for home system, I dont really have much money available to drop on my home system, along with me not having house, dropping lots of money to put into my dorm and or parents basement when Im home isnt too practical.

I have never used them and since close to 100% of my headphone use is on airplanes, sound cancellation is what I am experienced with. Though I will say that they do look like an overpriced fashion statement, the way they are marketed. To be honest, even if they were great, sonically, I would get a different brand just so I don't appear like someone trying to look like they are in High School.

Is all of your music in File format?

 

[ellipticality_224]

The marketing of stereo equipment is as funny as the marketing of tennis rackets.

When I was a kid, I upgraded the 6x9 rear speakers of my parent's car with speakers called MindBlowers. I think I bought them at Bradlee's which was sort of a Kmart type chain in New England for about $40. They had 30 watt amps attached and were extremely loud/obnoxious which was the whole idea. They were made by a company called Tenna, which was an OEM and aftermarket audio equipment manufacturer out of Cleveland. I think their components were actually made in the USA; imagine that. They went out of business in the mid 1980's. Later, as an adult, I worked in the OEM audio system industry for a number of years.

The typical OEM car system is quite good now compared to what it was in the 1970's/1980's and before. Most don't require upgrades unless you really want to get nuts with subwoofers, etc. Not really worth it IMHO but to each his own.

Quite the contrary with me Fearsome, lol. I have a 99 jeep wrangler, and the ones I took out (factory originals) had paper cones, tiny magnets. But you can get some pretty nice sounding stuff from JL Audio. Youd be amazed at how clear the music is, even in a jeep wrangler with a soft top on! Some people, lik people that have used ONLY beats think that they are the best, but they put on some Bose or Klipsch headphones, and are astonished by the SQ in them.

 

[ellipticality_224]

Monster aint makin beats anymore. Beats didnt renew the deal and are making the stuff by themselves now.

Monster has there own headphones own.

From the sound engineers of Beats by Dr Dre® headphones comes the newest in headphone technology, Monster® DNA™. Hear every detail, feel every beat, and express a bold, iconic, new look.

230 bucks

Did you get that off of the beats website? Probably just more overpriced plastic, with over powered bass. And note that they actually advertised how they look, clearly indicating they are also a fashion statement. Other comapnies make good looking headphones but dont advertise that they look good, because most people that but those for SQ dont care all that much about how they look, yea they look sleek and good, but thats not what theyre made for.

 

[Disgruntled Worker]

There's really no perfect headphone. You have to try out stuff before you buy it. Beats are actually the reason I got into headphones. I'll never forget it! Horrible, harsh treble combined with an over-inflated low end. It sounded like someone was hitting a cat with a bagpipe. If you want what audio engineers and musicians use, Guitar Center has PLENTY of quality stuff from Sennheiser, Audio Technica, Beyerdynamics, Klipsch, and even AKG.

 

[mad dog1]

There's really no perfect headphone. You have to try out stuff before you buy it. Beats are actually the reason I got into headphones. I'll never forget it! Horrible, harsh treble combined with an over-inflated low end. It sounded like someone was hitting a cat with a bagpipe. If you want what audio engineers and musicians use, Guitar Center has PLENTY of quality stuff from Sennheiser, Audio Technica, Beyerdynamics, Klipsch, and even AKG.

don't forget to add Grado to the list.

 

[mad dog1]

Quite the contrary with me Fearsome, lol. I have a 99 jeep wrangler, and the ones I took out (factory originals) had paper cones, tiny magnets. But you can get some pretty nice sounding stuff from JL Audio. Youd be amazed at how clear the music is, even in a jeep wrangler with a soft top on! Some people, lik people that have used ONLY beats think that they are the best, but they put on some Bose or Klipsch headphones, and are astonished by the SQ in them.

Did you just mention Bose and audiophile in the same thread??? :shock:

Bose is as far from audiophile as audio gets. Bose is just a cheaper version of Bang & Olufsen.

 

[mad dog1]

The bottom line is that a car is a pretty darn imperfect location to listen to music. Sure, you can spend whatever you want but anything above decent is not going to give you anywhere the same bang for your buck as a dollar spent on your home system.

+1 for sure. don't waste your money on car audio. too much NVH to combat.

 

[Fearsome Forehand]

That is why God invented EQ.

But, yes, a moving car has its drawbacks in terms of acoustics.

I wonder whatever became of my Koss Pro4A's.

 

[r2473]

There's really no perfect headphone. You have to try out stuff before you buy it. Beats are actually the reason I got into headphones. I'll never forget it! Horrible, harsh treble combined with an over-inflated low end. It sounded like someone was hitting a cat with a bagpipe. If you want what audio engineers and musicians use, Guitar Center has PLENTY of quality stuff from Sennheiser, Audio Technica, Beyerdynamics, Klipsch, and even AKG.

don't forget to add Grado to the list.

I hate all headphones (from an audio quality perspective). But the best I've ever heard are a nice pair of Stax electrostats that I had a custom built tube headphone amp for. They were "OK", but nothing compared to listening in my main system through my klipschhorns (so why bother with the headphones?).

 

[ellipticality_224]

I may not be a vinyl junkie like I assume some of you older tters are, but If Im buying music I always get in the car and drive down to the CD store, in my state FYE dominates it. MP3s arent as good as SQ as the CDs are, I forget what the bit rates are, but its a pretty significant difference. Besides what I have written in the paragraph below will SHOCK some of you.

There is a radio program that comes on on weeknights from 8-11 pm called "the tech guy" and he just talks about all sorts of goodies us tech junkies drool over. Like the newest gaming systems, the latest in picture taking technology, audio, and he even LOVES to demonize Itunes and Zune, and all other major mp3 and ebook retailers. He was searching the terms and agreements one day and out of the blue he comes across a staggering new regulation on purchased ebooks and items from amazon and itunes etc. It basically says that "By buying our media, you are renting it for a lifetime, when you pass away, the library of purchased items then returns into apple or amazons possesion. Essentially YOU DO NOT OWN PURCHASED ITEMS FROM ITUNES! You simply have rights to listen to them, and you cannot put them in your will to hand them over to a relative. Apple and Amaon have every right to reach into your library and delete everything that you have bought from them. Yes, this is easily avoided by simply storing in an external HD. But, IMO, this is simply taking it too far, you should own the copy of the mp3 you buy. This is another reason I buy CDs only, because you cant track them and essentially you own the CD

 

[Fearsome Forehand]

^ Leo LaPorte

 

[ellipticality_224]

Lol, whose that?

 

[ellipticality_224]

oh, nvm! Duhh... thats the tech guy I was talking about, dont know his name, but now i do, just knew him as the tech guy.

 

[Ronaldo]

don't forget to add Grado to the list.

Grado is on the top of my list since selling my Stax hdphones.

 

[r2473]

I may not be a vinyl junkie like I assume some of you older tters are,

Good reel-to-reel blows vinyl out of the water for sound quality. Problem is, you can't buy anything to play.

But in all honesty, I've heard it said by many dyed-in-the-wool vinyl junkies, that computers are so good these days, that the sound quality is as good if not better than the best vinyl or reel-to-reel setups. Not just any old computer music setup mind you.

But all the music I like and listen to I have on vinyl, so that's what I'm sticking with.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARhctL8xN0c

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uREkZzOcIxk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTniz71YCpY

 

[Hot Sauce]

Interesting enough, I just got some JL Audio speakers (front and back) for my car for Christmas. I have the back ones installed, and I'm going to have my friend install the front ones for me this weekend.

I think a car is a great place to listen to music. It takes me 40 minutes to an hour to drive to work everyday (and back home), and having some great quality speakers really makes a big difference in the enjoyment of the ride. It can even put you into a good mood going into work.

Also, I recently bought a pair of Audio Technica ATH-M50's for my desktop use. They're quite nice - good for gaming too.

 

[ellipticality_224]

Interesting enough, I just got some JL Audio speakers (front and back) for my car for Christmas. I have the back ones installed, and I'm going to have my friend install the front ones for me this weekend.

I think a car is a great place to listen to music. It takes me 40 minutes to an hour to drive to work everyday (and back home), and having some great quality speakers really makes a big difference in the enjoyment of the ride. It can even put you into a good mood going into work.

Also, I recently bought a pair of Audio Technica ATH-M50's for my desktop use. They're quite nice - good for gaming too.

I assume you have mid rate speakers for stock? Well, some people may say that car audio is waste over a certain dollar mark, but in my wrangler, anything beats the stock, I use JL audio 4x6 TR in the front and Marine grade kenwoods in the audio bar for rain storms. My sub is in a shallow mount its a 10 inch which is fine for the rock and country I listen to (Kenwood KFC Excelon) my amplifier is an Alpine, and mounted in under the instrument panel in my jeep to prevent theft and water damage (that was a fun install, lots of cussing in that one) and I use a Kenwood Excelon KDC 594 in for a deck (its a tad old, thinking about upgrading to the 597), Kenwood excleon decks are said to be hands down THE best in stereos and radios. I wont use anything else but kenwood decks. For me it was worth it, because the paper cones in my stock setup had already lost the styrofoam surrounds and barely made sound at all, and the deck was only a tape player, my dad still has some tapes laying around the house.I can honestly say it was money well spent, as the speakers are virtually theft proof because of the front being hidden in the leg panels and the audio bar speakers have TORX Key screws in them and wont work without that specific head which is very hard to find, my amp... well good luck getting that out of there, if you can find it. and my subwoofer is bolted to the floor in the back and hidden from clear view by the back seat. I personally think it was a good investment, all in all it ran me about 900 dollars, and since I did it myself I saved 200 some dollars in labor fees as well.

 

[diredesire]

Did you just mention Bose and audiophile in the same thread??? :shock:

Bose is as far from audiophile as audio gets. Bose is just a cheaper version of Bang & Olufsen.

Yeah, I'm not going to pile on here, but there's so much face palm worthy stuff going on in this thread...

I'm a "headphone" guy, but I rarely use them to their full potential, even if I accrue enough equipment to make nice cans shine, you still have source issues, which is another fat wad of cash disappearing. I actually "got into" headphones largely due to the DIY amp scene (I'm an electrical engineer). Fun stuff, but digital audio is too portable and compelling for me to invest my money into vinyl/other high end sources.

I've resigned myself to keeping computers, tennis/stringing, and hardware hacking/DIY as my expensive hobbies.

As far as OP: Just go read head-fi for a while, and re-read this thread in a year, you'll know what I mean

 

[NickC]

I've resigned myself to keeping computers, tennis/stringing, and hardware hacking/DIY as my expensive hobbies.

Lucky you. Atleast you have self-imposed limits. I just found out that I basically need to get a whole slew of new audio gear now that I've started taking production seriously, which will probably end in me spending my entire first paycheck on a new pair of monitors and a analog synth. That and tennis will practically bankrupt me.

 

[ellipticality_224]

My local small business that deals in AV has a big sign over their headphone shelves and racks that reads

"That moment when you get a good pair of headphones, and hear instruments that you didn't know were there before."

My knowledge is more limited to car audio, IMO, the best place to spend money on media enjoyment, when your a college kid, who virtually lives in their car, and is on the road ALL the time, as I am. A 15 minute drive to work from my apartment, 30 minutes from work to make it home for dinner, 40 minutes to get to my parents house from my apartment for dinner, 30 minute commute to the community college from my apartment. And depending on traffic, an hour to get to the local private courts or the cities recreational park, which have good looking courts. Unlike in my part of the county (yes, county) where no one knows what tennis is, and if they do, they think its basically a commie plot, like soccer.

 

[diredesire]

Lucky you. Atleast you have self-imposed limits. I just found out that I basically need to get a whole slew of new audio gear now that I've started taking production seriously, which will probably end in me spending my entire first paycheck on a new pair of monitors and a analog synth. That and tennis will practically bankrupt me.

Production is your decision, and there's nothing wrong with that I just ended up with 'audiophile' related hobbies as a lower priority than the other interests I have. Simple as that

My local small business that deals in AV has a big sign over their headphone shelves and racks that reads

"That moment when you get a good pair of headphones, and hear instruments that you didn't know were there before."

My knowledge is more limited to car audio, IMO, the best place to spend money on media enjoyment, when your a college kid, who virtually lives in their car, and is on the road ALL the time, as I am. A 15 minute drive to work from my apartment, 30 minutes from work to make it home for dinner, 40 minutes to get to my parents house from my apartment for dinner, 30 minute commute to the community college from my apartment. And depending on traffic, an hour to get to the local private courts or the cities recreational park, which have good looking courts. Unlike in my part of the county (yes, county) where no one knows what tennis is, and if they do, they think its basically a commie plot, like soccer.

I'm totally supportive of anyone spending their money on something they're enthusiastic about, and/or things that make them happy (if it truly does so). I think in terms of being a true "audiophile," though, as was said above, the car is one of the worst places to spend it on. There's just too much cabin noise for truly high fidelity reproduction. I DO agree that there's plenty of things that are worth upgrading in a vehicle, though

 

[Hot Sauce]

I assume you have mid rate speakers for stock? Well, some people may say that car audio is waste over a certain dollar mark, but in my wrangler, anything beats the stock, I use JL audio 4x6 TR in the front and Marine grade kenwoods in the audio bar for rain storms. My sub is in a shallow mount its a 10 inch which is fine for the rock and country I listen to (Kenwood KFC Excelon) my amplifier is an Alpine, and mounted in under the instrument panel in my jeep to prevent theft and water damage (that was a fun install, lots of cussing in that one) and I use a Kenwood Excelon KDC 594 in for a deck (its a tad old, thinking about upgrading to the 597), Kenwood excleon decks are said to be hands down THE best in stereos and radios. I wont use anything else but kenwood decks. For me it was worth it, because the paper cones in my stock setup had already lost the styrofoam surrounds and barely made sound at all, and the deck was only a tape player, my dad still has some tapes laying around the house.I can honestly say it was money well spent, as the speakers are virtually theft proof because of the front being hidden in the leg panels and the audio bar speakers have TORX Key screws in them and wont work without that specific head which is very hard to find, my amp... well good luck getting that out of there, if you can find it. and my subwoofer is bolted to the floor in the back and hidden from clear view by the back seat. I personally think it was a good investment, all in all it ran me about 900 dollars, and since I did it myself I saved 200 some dollars in labor fees as well.

Yes, just stock Honda Civic speakers.

The difference between stock and aftermarket speakers is amazing. It makes the music so much more enjoyable.

 

[The_Question]

I assume you have mid rate speakers for stock? Well, some people may say that car audio is waste over a certain dollar mark, but in my wrangler, anything beats the stock, I use JL audio 4x6 TR in the front and Marine grade kenwoods in the audio bar for rain storms. My sub is in a shallow mount its a 10 inch which is fine for the rock and country I listen to (Kenwood KFC Excelon) my amplifier is an Alpine, and mounted in under the instrument panel in my jeep to prevent theft and water damage (that was a fun install, lots of cussing in that one) and I use a Kenwood Excelon KDC 594 in for a deck (its a tad old, thinking about upgrading to the 597), Kenwood excleon decks are said to be hands down THE best in stereos and radios. I wont use anything else but kenwood decks. For me it was worth it, because the paper cones in my stock setup had already lost the styrofoam surrounds and barely made sound at all, and the deck was only a tape player, my dad still has some tapes laying around the house.I can honestly say it was money well spent, as the speakers are virtually theft proof because of the front being hidden in the leg panels and the audio bar speakers have TORX Key screws in them and wont work without that specific head which is very hard to find, my amp... well good luck getting that out of there, if you can find it. and my subwoofer is bolted to the floor in the back and hidden from clear view by the back seat. I personally think it was a good investment, all in all it ran me about 900 dollars, and since I did it myself I saved 200 some dollars in labor fees as well.

The only problem w/Kenwood is...they break so easy! The Excelon is awesome, no doubt, I have a few of them myself, but they breakdown right after the warranty had expired. As standard HU goes, I have yet found a similar sound shaping as the Excelon, Alpine comes closest.