Best return of serve

[TheMaestro1990]

Not asking for which player who is the best returner ever - we already have mutiple threads for that. But which is the best return (shot) you've ever seen? Federer is perhaps not seen as a great returner, but he has many brilliant hot shots from the return spot.

 

[MichaelNadal]

Not asking for which player who is the best returner ever - we already have mutiple threads for that. But which is the best return (shot) you've ever seen? Federer is perhaps not seen as a great returner, but he has many brilliant hot shots from the return spot.

Thanks for sharing, epic

 

[captainbryce]

After Djokovic and Agassi (clearly top 2), Federer is legitimately the 3rd best returner of serve OF ALL TIME as far as I can tell. He doesn't have the consistently "flashy" return winners that we see from Djokovic or Agassi, so his return is constantly slept on. But when you look at his unique ability to neutralize big serves back in play, Federer is unparalleled. He can return big serves better than Djokovic, and he gets more returns in play than Agassi. He can also do things with the return that most other players can't.

 

[TheMaestro1990]

After Djokovic and Agassi (clearly top 2), Federer is legitimately the 3rd best returner of serve OF ALL TIME as far as I can tell. He doesn't have the consistently "flashy" return winners that we see from Djokovic or Agassi, so his return is constantly slept on. But when you look at his unique ability to neutralize big serves back in play, Federer is unparalleled. He can return big serves better than Djokovic, and he gets more returns in play than Agassi. He can also do things with the return that most other players can't.

Yeah I agree, though I think in his prime his neutral return wasn't that good; he usually just blocked it or sliced it back in play. Of course he had insane reactions and made some specatcular winners, but I think his somewhat boring/neutral slice return had to do with that it simply didn't have to be better, because he would win most rallies anyway. Today sure is different.

 

[K-H]

There'll never be a single best return as the shot is limited. But it'll be more he best return depending on the moment in the match and the pressure the player was under. Djokovic vs Federer would be up there because of the situation and the moment.

 

[Krish872007]

What was the video you released yesterday that provoked angry reactions on YT? Curious

 

[ibbi]

Well, as a Federer fan I'm sure you know of a very strong contender for the title from the 2011 US Open semi final? The executor of said shot also had an amazing one against I think it was Tsonga at Wimbledon in 2014? Maybe on match point or something like that? I'm sure one of his fans can clear it up. That might be the best I've seen.

 

[Sartorius]

Nice. Would have included a couple of Fed's drop-shot returns myself.

Djokovic's "are you not entertained" shot to save MP against Fed is the one that'll be remembered most I guess.

 

[vladisimo]

What was the video you released yesterday that provoked angry reactions on YT? Curious

something about the reactions of spectators at nadal/fed matches

 

[Krish872007]

something about the reactions of spectators at nadal/fed matches

I see - that is contentious material

 

[captainbryce]

Yeah I agree, though I think in his prime his neutral return wasn't that good; he usually just blocked it or sliced it back in play. Of course he had insane reactions and made some specatcular winners, but I think his somewhat boring/neutral slice return had to do with that it simply didn't have to be better, because he would win most rallies anyway. Today sure is different.

I think Andre Agassi put it best during his 2007 US Open commentary (Federer vs Roddick). Agassi said that Federer was one of the best returners the game has ever seen.

"I'd be surprised at how often in a match Federer does not out-ace his opponents. And that's not because he's throwing down 140 mph serves" [but because of his ability to get his racket on everything, and neutralize the serves of most of his opponents]. When Andre Agassi is calling someone else one of the best returners, I'd put stock into that.

Like I said, it's because he doesn't have a "flashy" return that hits a lot of flat out winners that people don't realize how good it is. But the ability to put difficult serves back and play, and reset the point to zero is a skill that most tennis players would love to have. Federer's strategy and instinct is to get balls back in play, not to hit winners off the return, because he's going to win better than 50% of points on his opponent's serve if he can get into a rally.

 

[Noleberic123]

Well, as a Federer fan I'm sure you know of a very strong contender for the title from the 2011 US Open semi final? The executor of said shot also had an amazing one against I think it was Tsonga at Wimbledon in 2014? Maybe on match point or something like that? I'm sure one of his fans can clear it up. That might be the best I've seen.

Yes if was on MP against Tsonga at Wimby 2014. The commentator said it was the best return of all time

 

[Noleberic123]

Not asking for which player who is the best returner ever - we already have mutiple threads for that. But which is the best return (shot) you've ever seen? Federer is perhaps not seen as a great returner, but he has many brilliant hot shots from the return spot.

Oh my word!

 

[Nostradamus]

how do you make consistent solid forehand return ??? when I hit it well, I hit it really well but lately I have been mis-hitting some of my forehand returns, not sure why.

 

[David Le]

how do you make consistent solid forehand return ??? when I hit it well, I hit it really well but lately I have been mis-hitting some of my forehand returns, not sure why.

Take a short backswing and let your racquet do the work.

 

[Nostradamus]

I really don't like this guy's explanation of these great return techniques... but it really does show great short backswing on the Backhand side by Federer

 

[Sport]

Best return shot I have ever seen so far:

 

[MeatTornado]

I think Andre Agassi put it best during his 2007 US Open commentary (Federer vs Roddick). Agassi said that Federer was one of the best returners the game has ever seen.

"I'd be surprised at how often in a match Federer does not out-ace his opponents. And that's not because he's throwing down 140 mph serves" [but because of his ability to get his racket on everything, and neutralize the serves of most of his opponents]. When Andre Agassi is calling someone else one of the best returners, I'd put stock into that.

Like I said, it's because he doesn't have a "flashy" return that hits a lot of flat out winners that people don't realize how good it is. But the ability to put difficult serves back and play, and reset the point to zero is a skill that most tennis players would love to have. Federer's strategy and instinct is to get balls back in play, not to hit winners off the return, because he's going to win better than 50% of points on his opponent's serve if he can get into a rally.

Wow, that clip brings back some terrible memories as a Roddick fan. It was infuriating to watch at the time, over and over and over and over again. Roger's return of serve was the single most important factor in that H2H. Completely neutralized the biggest serve in the game, which exposed all the other weaknesses in Andy's game. He didn't need great depth like Djokovic or pace like Agassi. He just needed to make sure he put the ball back in play and let Andy beat himself in a rally.

 

[Sport]

By the way, Agassi is slitghtly overrated as a returner in TTW. He was a weak 5' 11" and lacked mobility because of his back problems. Both Federer and Nadal are better returners than him in my opinion.

Nadal can return easily the servebot GOAT Karlovic:

Nadal also broke many games of Raonic and Federer in the AO 2017.

Nadal likes to return usually (but not always) really behind the baseline because he doesn't need to be nearer to produce powerful shots. He is a strong player in that sense. Also, it gives him more time to react.

 

[Deleted member 716271]

Federer is a great returner, I've seen some incredible slice returns of Roddick from him. Nadal is quite good as well. Murray too.

I think all of the 4 have great returns, it might be the 1 shot, where all 4 of them are at least very good?

Novak is the best of course, but I think whoever you think is the worst of the other 3, is still well above the top 20 average return.

 

[captainbryce]

By the way, Agassi is slitghtly overrated as a returner in TTW. He was a weak 5' 11" and lacked mobility because of his back problems. Both Federer and Nadal are better returners than him in my opinion.

Agree to disagree. Agassi only had "back problems" the last 3 years of his career. That wasn't an issue in his prime when he was facing players like Becker, and Sampras, and Ivanisevic. As far as him being only 5'11", well he certainly made up for that with great anticipation and unmatched eye-hand coordination.

I think Nadal is a good returner. I don't think he's top 5, and I could honestly think of half a dozen other players that I'd put ahead of him returning (Murray, Hewitt, Conners).

Nadal can return easily the servebot GOAT Karlovic:

So could Agassi.

Nadal also broke many games of Raonic and Federer in the AO 2017.

So did Agassi at the 2004 and 2005 USO.

Nadal likes to return usually (but not always) really behind the baseline because he doesn't need to be nearer to produce powerful shots. He is a strong player in that sense. Also, it gives him more time to react.

Agreed.

 

[masao]

1 Ferrer
2 Nadal
3 Murray
4 Agassi
5 Djokovic

 

[NoleFam]

By the way, Agassi is slitghtly overrated as a returner in TTW. He was a weak 5' 11" and lacked mobility because of his back problems. Both Federer and Nadal are better returners than him in my opinion.

Nadal can return easily the servebot GOAT Karlovic:

Nadal also broke many games of Raonic and Federer in the AO 2017.

Nadal likes to return usually (but not always) really behind the baseline because he doesn't need to be nearer to produce powerful shots. He is a strong player in that sense. Also, it gives him more time to react.

Agassi earned that respect as a returner and played in an era with some of the greatest servers ever, yet would just dismantle their serves. The top 2 is Agassi and Djokovic, in what ever order you want to put them in but they are head and shoulders above the rest. As far as #3, I would go with Connors and then the rest (Federer, Murray, Nadal) can fall in line in some order.

 

[NatF]

Agassi earned that respect as a returner and played in an era with some of the greatest servers ever, yet would just dismantle their serves. The top 2 is Agassi and Djokovic, in what ever order you want to put them in but they are head and shoulders above the rest. As far as #3, I would go with Connors and then the rest (Federer, Murray, Nadal) can fall in line in some order.

Connors needs to be considered in the same sentence as Agassi and Djokovic IMO. From older era's the likes of Rosewall had (in)famous returns as well. I'd include Murray and Hewitt as the next tier down, and then the rest. Players like Ferrer and Nishikori need a mention for this era as well - Safin on his day was crazy too.

 

[NoleFam]

Connors needs to be considered in the same sentence as Agassi and Djokovic IMO. From older era's the likes of Rosewall had (in)famous returns as well. I'd include Murray and Hewitt as the next tier down, and then the rest. Players like Ferrer and Nishikori need a mention for this era as well - Safin on his day was crazy too.

Connors is definitely up there which is why I would put him at #3. I still think Agassi and Djokovic are just on another level on returning compared to the rest so I can't quite put him on their level but he is better than the rest. I'm not familiar with the Rosewall return so can't really judge there. Murray and Hewitt are both very good, but I don't know if I would put Nishikori and Ferrer in the conversation. Safin on his day was great at everything but that was only when he was on.

 

[NatF]

Connors is definitely up there which is why I would put him at #3. I still think Agassi and Djokovic are just on another level on returning compared to the rest so I can't quite put him on their level but he is better than the rest. I'm not familiar with the Rosewall return so can't really judge there. Murray and Hewitt are both very good, but I don't know if I would put Nishikori and Ferrer in the conversation. Safin on his day was great at everything but that was only when he was on.

I only meant Nishi and Ferrer should be mentioned for the current era. I think their returns are at least on the level of Nadal's - not to say Nadal isn't great when he needs to be.

It's tough with Connor's because within his era he was clearly at a similar sort of level to Agassi and Djokovic, problem is there was less oomph in the game back then. Borg is another guy who had a really good return.

 

[NoleFam]

I only meant Nishi and Ferrer should be mentioned for the current era. I think their returns are at least on the level of Nadal's - not to say Nadal isn't great when he needs to be.

It's tough with Connor's because within his era he was clearly at a similar sort of level to Agassi and Djokovic, problem is there was less oomph in the game back then. Borg is another guy who had a really good return.

Nadal is more consistent that them in my opinion. That's true regarding Connors because the rackets in the game at the time were more limited and Borg was also a very good returner.

 

[NatF]

Nadal is more consistent that them in my opinion. That's true regarding Connors because the rackets in the game at the time were more limited and Borg was also a very good returner.

Nadal is more consistent because he stands so far back. They're much better at taking the ball early and punishing weak serves IMO.

 

[NoleFam]

Nadal is more consistent because he stands so far back. They're much better at taking the ball early and punishing weak serves IMO.

Yea they both take the ball earlier than Nadal.

 

[David Le]

1 Ferrer
2 Nadal
3 Murray
4 Agassi
5 Djokovic

Idk if you are trolling or what but Ferrer as number 1 returner? He's at least like top 15. As agression goes or best 2nd serve returns I'd go with Agassi. Returning serve overall all? Djokovic. Murray is good at blocking the ball back. He's a better returner when facing a huge serve (given a 1st serve) Nadal can return well when given time. As far as the ranking goes.
1. Djokovic
2. Agassi
3. Connors
4. Murray
5. Hewitt
6. Nalbandian
7. Safin
8. Davydenko
9. Federer
10. Nadal
11. Ferrer
12. Nishikori
13. Chang
14. Rios
15. Coria

 

[masao]

Idk if you are trolling or what but Ferrer as number 1 returner? He's at least like top 15. As agression goes or best 2nd serve returns I'd go with Agassi. Returning serve overall all? Djokovic. Murray is good at blocking the ball back. He's a better returner when facing a huge serve (given a 1st serve) Nadal can return well when given time. As far as the ranking goes.
1. Djokovic
2. Agassi
3. Connors
4. Murray
5. Hewitt
6. Nalbandian
7. Safin
8. Davydenko
9. Federer
10. Nadal
11. Ferrer
12. Nishikori
13. Chang
14. Rios
15. Coria

http://www.atpworldtour.com/en/stats/1st-serve-return-points-won

 

[captainbryce]

Idk if you are trolling or what but Ferrer as number 1 returner? He's at least like top 15. As agression goes or best 2nd serve returns I'd go with Agassi. Returning serve overall all? Djokovic. Murray is good at blocking the ball back. He's a better returner when facing a huge serve (given a 1st serve) Nadal can return well when given time. As far as the ranking goes.
1. Djokovic
2. Agassi
3. Connors
4. Murray
5. Hewitt
6. Nalbandian
7. Safin
8. Davydenko
9. Federer
10. Nadal
11. Ferrer
12. Nishikori
13. Chang
14. Rios
15. Coria

You honestly think that Safin and Nalbandian had a better return of serve than Federer?

 

[Duncan Donuts]

Thanks for sharing, epic

Yep, this.

 

[BobbyOne]

Connors is definitely up there which is why I would put him at #3. I still think Agassi and Djokovic are just on another level on returning compared to the rest so I can't quite put him on their level but he is better than the rest. I'm not familiar with the Rosewall return so can't really judge there. Murray and Hewitt are both very good, but I don't know if I would put Nishikori and Ferrer in the conversation. Safin on his day was great at everything but that was only when he was on.

NoleFam, Rosewall's return was widely considered the best in the game from about 1957 (when Muscles turned pro) till about 1974 when young Connors took over. Ken's last two returns in the famous 1972 Dallas match against Laver destroyed the latter who seemed to win that final. These two backhand returns are legendary and will probably mentioned for further decades or centuries.

 

[NoleFam]

NoleFam, Rosewall's return was widely considered the best in the game from about 1957 (when Muscles turned pro) till about 1974 when young Connors took over. Ken's last two returns in the famous 1972 Dallas match against Laver destroyed the latter who seemed to win that final. These two backhand returns are legendary and will probably mentioned for further decades or centuries.

Nice. Thanks man because I'm not familiar with a lot in his game and wish I knew more.

 

[forzamilan90]

Agassi and Djoko seem like the clear standouts in this category. Tough to say who's one and who is two.

I don't know where he would rank, but I thought Nalbandian had a great return....return aside, his ground game was excellent.

 

[BobbyOne]

Nice. Thanks man because I'm not familiar with a lot in his game and wish I knew more.

NoleFam, Do you have special questions? About Ken's extra-long career or his many titles in singles and doubles or his many major titles or his playing style?

 

[NoleFam]

NoleFam, Do you have special questions? About Ken's extra-long career or his many titles in singles and doubles or his many major titles or his playing style?

I know about his records but am not familiar with his playing style. I've only really closely watched Laver from that era.

 

[Bender]

Thanks for sharing, epic

Yeah this has to be up there.

Good things happen when Rafa takes returns early and redirects the serve but he's too stubborn to keep with that tactic and insists on taking full cuts at the serve.

Works on clay but not so much anywhere else.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[BobbyOne]

I know about his records but am not familiar with his playing style. I've only really closely watched Laver from that era.

NoleFam, Thanks. By the way, I hope that Djokovic will win this Wimbledon...

In short: Rosewall's game was built on economic playing, on steady and consistent shot making mixing offense and defense. Muscles had an all-court game with excellent groundstrokes and extraordinary volleys, especially on the backhand side plus fine touch shots such as lobs on both sides, half-volleys and drop shots. His only "weakness" was his good but not heavy and fast service but on his good days (and the Little Master had rather many good days...) it helped him winning 25 majors of several categories. Rosewall had a superb footwork and running speed, also astounding reflexes and good stamina. He was a shrewd tactician and able to concentrate as well as few players of his time (1949 to 1982!) could.

They say Rosewall was more consistent than his greatest opponent, Laver, but he usually was better at the big tournaments than at lesser ones.

They also say that he was the king of clay in his time (before peak Borg) but both Laver and Hoad (plus Gimeno) were able to beat him on dirt rather often. On the other hand, Rosewall was a great grasscourt player (winning eight majors) and excellent also on hardcourts and especially very fast wood (he beat Rod Laver four times in a row in the French Pro which was held indoors from 1963 to 1967).

It might be that you (and others) don't realize that Rosewall won three Davis Cups (where he played in the Challenge rounds) and three "Kramer Cups", the pro equivalent of the Davis Cup.

I find it also worthy to be mentioned that Rosewall won two Grand Slam tournaments (amateurs) at 18 and that he beat world's No.3, Gerulaitis, in straight sets at 43 (1977), giving Jimmy Connors the next day a marvellous fight in the final of the Australian Indoors.

 

[NoleFam]

NoleFam, Thanks. By the way, I hope that Djokovic will win this Wimbledon...

In short: Rosewall's game was built on economic playing, on steady and consistent shot making mixing offense and defense. Muscles ha an all-court game with excellent groundstrokes and extraordinary volleys, especially on the backhand side plus fine touch shots such as lobs on both sides, half-volleys and drop shots. His only "weakness" was his good but not heavy and fast service but on his good days (and the Little Master had rather many good days...) it helped him winning 25 majors of several categories. Rosewall had a superb footwork and running speed, also astounding reflexes and good stamina. He was a shrewd tactician and able to concentrate as well as few players of his time (1949 to 1982!) could.

They say Rosewall was more consistent than his greatest opponent, Laver, but he usually was better at the big tournaments than at lesser ones.

They also say that he was the king of clay in his time (before peak Borg) but both Laver and Hoad (plus Gimeno) were able to beat him on dirt rather often. On the other hand, Rosewall was a great grasscourt player (winning eight majors) and excellent also on hardcourts and especially very fast wood (he beat Rod Laver four times in a row in the French Pro which was held indoors from 1963 to 1967).

It might be that you (and others) don't realize that Rosewall won three Davis Cups (where he played in the Challenge rounds) and three "Kramer Cups", the pro equivalent of the Davis Cup.

I find it also worthy to be mentioned that Rosewall won two Grand Slam tournaments (amateurs) at 18 and that he beat world's No.3, Gerulaitis, in straight sets at 43 (1977), giving Jimmy Connors the next day a marvellous fight in the final of the Australian Indoors.

Oh cool man. Thanks for that because I don't know a lot about his game or what kind of style he had. I just know that he won a few majors in the Open Era and was one of Laver's biggest rivals all through his career. I will have to see if I can find some videos of him playing and study him a little more.

 

[dh003i]

Not asking for which player who is the best returner ever - we already have mutiple threads for that. But which is the best return (shot) you've ever seen? Federer is perhaps not seen as a great returner, but he has many brilliant hot shots from the return spot.

I assume the last one was the famous Djokovic ROS against Federer in the USO 2011 SF. The list wouldn't have been legit without that one, heartbreaking as it was. I have to say, he's quite a showman after some of those returns with the arms up--entertaining.

One of Nadal's against a Federer serve at Wimbledon was just a sick vicious fast angle.

Federer had some ridiculous ones too.

And of course...Agassi. He had several ridiculous returns against Federer's serve. It looks like a serve pace going back across the court.

 

[BobbyOne]

Oh cool man. Thanks for that because I don't know a lot about his game or what kind of style he had. I just know that he won a few majors in the Open Era and was one of Laver's biggest rivals all through his career. I will have to see if I can find some videos of him playing and study him a little more.

NoleFam, I would suggest to watch the short video (nine minutes) of the 1970 Sydney Dunlop tournament where poster krosero has brought some of the best shots of the Laver/Rosewall final (Laver won in five sets) and the short video of the 1970 US Open final between Rosewall and Roche featuring great volleys and groundstrokes from both players.

I forgot to mention that Rosewall played his one-handed backhand mostly as a drive with some underspin, never with topspin, and the forehand as a drive. His backhand was often very offensive and not seldom a hard-hit shot. Ken is only 1.70 meters and weighs 73 kilos (sorry I use European numbers). He is still very slim (in contrary to his pen-friend, BobbyOne...).

EDIT:

Thanks for your interest. The young Rosewall looked rather similary (face) to Djoker...

 

[NoleFam]

NoleFam, I would suggest to watch the short video (nine minutes) of the 1970 Sydney Dunlop tournament where poster krosero has brought some of the best shots of the Laver/Rosewall final (Laver won in five sets) and the short video of the 1970 US Open final between Rosewall and Roche featuring great volleys and groundstrokes from both players.

I forgot to mention that Rosewall played his one-handed backhand mostly as a drive with some underspin, never with topspin, and the forehand as a drive. His backhand was often very offensive and not seldom a hard-hit shot. Ken is only 1.70 meters and weighs 73 kilos. He is still very slim (in contrary to his pen-friend, BobbyOne...).

Yea I will definitely check those out. Thanks for the info and history lesson Bobby.

 

[BobbyOne]

Yea I will definitely check those out. Thanks for the info and history lesson Bobby.

Please read my short EDIT in the previous post.

 

[NoleFam]

Please read my short EDIT in the previous post.

Haha. Yea I can see it a little bit right here:

 

[-NN-]

Rosewall can't be that good. Everybody knows that tennis players keep getting better as they get older and Rosewall is now very old and yet isn't even competing on the ATP tour.

The game has passed him by.