consequences of cheating

[Truth_seeker]

I have read threads here on cheating, and sorry for bringing up this topic again but I just cant keep quiet after what happened to my daughter today.

She played a challenger in G12 group and was playing against a girl whom she had beated twice before. As soon as the set started, she started calling everyball close to the line out. My daughter questioned her and then kept quiet. It was quite distressing for us parents. We asked the umpire to look into it and luckily he obliged and stood close by as much as possible ( usually umpires only respond to players as you know and today we were lucky). Everytime he would turn back, she would call a ball out.

Nobody wins when a player cheats. What the cheater does not realize is that once it works, they will try it again and again till everybody knows that they are bad line callers. Once they are branded as cheaters, it is very difficult to get that name erased, players dont want to mingle with them, and they are pretty much alone. This is really not good for them int he long run. I have seen some girls with good talent but bad line calling habits being isolated and ignored outside the courts and they have really gone back on their playing. I hope the parents realize this and ask their kids to be careful for thier own sake.

As for me I am so disgusted with tournament playing and feel like I should just pull her off from tournaments. I really see why the william sisters stoped playing tournaments.. totally understand...feeling cheated is the worst....

Anyway my daughter won in a tie breaker but I am still shaking....

 

[RestockingTues]

The Williams sister's have line judges...
And successful careers in fashion design and modeling, they don't need to play as much tennis as the other women do.

 

[Truth_seeker]

I meant when they were young. I recall reading that they did not play tournaments because they were frustrated by the process and behaviors

 

[gully]

I sympathize. I've watched similar things happen to my daughter, and it is very difficult to watch. The system doesn't exactly discourage it, either. One girl earned herself a horrible rep as a cheater in the 12s -- much deserved -- and now that she is a little older and has matured, she can't shake the reputation. In the section (and even national), I'm not sure she when she will.

I can say there has been almost none of this kind of behavior in the 16s, and only a little in the 14s, compared to the 12s. I don't know if that helps. It sure is agonizing to watch, and there appear to be next to no consequences for doing so.

 

[BradBaughman]

I have read threads here on cheating, and sorry for bringing up this topic again but I just cant keep quiet after what happened to my daughter today.

She played a challenger in G12 group and was playing against a girl whom she had beated twice before. As soon as the set started, she started calling everyball close to the line out. My daughter questioned her and then kept quiet. It was quite distressing for us parents. We asked the umpire to look into it and luckily he obliged and stood close by as much as possible ( usually umpires only respond to players as you know and today we were lucky). Everytime he would turn back, she would call a ball out.

Nobody wins when a player cheats. What the cheater does not realize is that once it works, they will try it again and again till everybody knows that they are bad line callers. Once they are branded as cheaters, it is very difficult to get that name erased, players dont want to mingle with them, and they are pretty much alone. This is really not good for them int he long run. I have seen some girls with good talent but bad line calling habits being isolated and ignored outside the courts and they have really gone back on their playing. I hope the parents realize this and ask their kids to be careful for thier own sake.

As for me I am so disgusted with tournament playing and feel like I should just pull her off from tournaments. I really see why the william sisters stoped playing tournaments.. totally understand...feeling cheated is the worst....

Anyway my daughter won in a tie breaker but I am still shaking....

heres a tip for you when your daughters playing again in any tourny you are aloud to comment on a good shot, so if the other player is cheating your girl will question it any ways and when she hears you say great shot when shes questioning "she'll have a great idea" of when to go get a line judge she will "Know" dad wouldnt lie to her but the opponent will, and "you" can determine between a cheater and a bad call and there is a difference .Hope that helps! but remember she needs to get the line judge lol

 

[Okazaki Fragment]

I meant when they were young. I recall reading that they did not play tournaments because they were frustrated by the process and behaviors

Well, I think their dad was pretty intent on them turning pro. Isn't your primary intent to let your daughter have fun?

In any case, I'm really suprised that there aren't loads of YouTube videos showing certain players cheating. Barring a Hawk-Eye like system for every court, I'm guessing this will be a popular way in the future to shame people into playing fair.

 

[Fintendo]

My advice is to tell your daughter to get through it. I know it's not fair etc and I've been playing tournaments for a long time, but once I started to ignore the cheaters or only asking them once they don't have so much fuel to fire their tactics. They thrive of the opponent breaking down due to their behaviour. If you can take that aspect away it will help your daughter's mental strength in the long run.

 

[BradBaughman]

I have read threads here on cheating, and sorry for bringing up this topic again but I just cant keep quiet after what happened to my daughter today.

She played a challenger in G12 group and was playing against a girl whom she had beated twice before. As soon as the set started, she started calling everyball close to the line out. My daughter questioned her and then kept quiet. It was quite distressing for us parents. We asked the umpire to look into it and luckily he obliged and stood close by as much as possible ( usually umpires only respond to players as you know and today we were lucky). Everytime he would turn back, she would call a ball out.

Nobody wins when a player cheats. What the cheater does not realize is that once it works, they will try it again and again till everybody knows that they are bad line callers. Once they are branded as cheaters, it is very difficult to get that name erased, players dont want to mingle with them, and they are pretty much alone. This is really not good for them int he long run. I have seen some girls with good talent but bad line calling habits being isolated and ignored outside the courts and they have really gone back on their playing. I hope the parents realize this and ask their kids to be careful for thier own sake.

As for me I am so disgusted with tournament playing and feel like I should just pull her off from tournaments. I really see why the william sisters stoped playing tournaments.. totally understand...feeling cheated is the worst....

Anyway my daughter won in a tie breaker but I am still shaking....

remember you are paying for the lessons $$$$ you are paying for the tournys$$$ you have to drive there pay for the food if its and all day deal. so my advise is have your daughter "know when" to go get a judge, no matter what its a business and you dont need some kid who's been raised wrong trying to steal food off your table , this out to have "fun stuff" doesnt work if your being cheated losing doesnt taste good and its worse when you've been cheated. have a plan so your daughter gets a "fair" shake, you are dad look out for her!!

 

[Truth_seeker]

Thanks for all the great advice!!. My daughter is very shy by nature and I am working hard on trying to get her to call the judge....

thanks for the replies.

 

[sk8ing]

cheat the cheater...

 

[10isDad]

cheat the cheater...

Brilliant...(that's sarcasm)

So, that makes you a...let me think...oh, yeah, I got it...a cheater. So now, you're no better than the original cheater and this post is now about you.

 

[SmAsH999]

well, I've had a similar experience. I was playing in a low level tournament because I had tendonitis in my shoulder, and I played a kid who robbed me of about 12 points. Even if my ball was an inch or two inside the line, he'd call it out. I questioned him, but he just said it was out, I'm positive. I lost the match, but mainly because I became upset when he called 2 shots in a row out. My advice, don't let a cheater bother you. Just stay calm, and play at a pace uncomfortable for them.

 

[Noaler]

nvm 10char

 

[tennismom42]

I have read threads here on cheating, and sorry for bringing up this topic again but I just cant keep quiet after what happened to my daughter today.

She played a challenger in G12 group and was playing against a girl whom she had beated twice before. As soon as the set started, she started calling everyball close to the line out. My daughter questioned her and then kept quiet. It was quite distressing for us parents. We asked the umpire to look into it and luckily he obliged and stood close by as much as possible ( usually umpires only respond to players as you know and today we were lucky). Everytime he would turn back, she would call a ball out.

Nobody wins when a player cheats. What the cheater does not realize is that once it works, they will try it again and again till everybody knows that they are bad line callers. Once they are branded as cheaters, it is very difficult to get that name erased, players dont want to mingle with them, and they are pretty much alone. This is really not good for them int he long run. I have seen some girls with good talent but bad line calling habits being isolated and ignored outside the courts and they have really gone back on their playing. I hope the parents realize this and ask their kids to be careful for thier own sake.

As for me I am so disgusted with tournament playing and feel like I should just pull her off from tournaments. I really see why the william sisters stoped playing tournaments.. totally understand...feeling cheated is the worst....

Anyway my daughter won in a tie breaker but I am still shaking....

I have another suggestion for you.

If you & your husband attend, go stand in alignment with the baseline and/or service line, right at the fence. That girl will know why you are there. She will know that you have a better view than she does.

Also, go straight up to the parents and ask them if she's had her vision checked lately. Because she's can't seem to see the ball well. Just leave it at that. It is possible she needs glasses & folks wont take her

 

[Fintendo]

I have another suggestion for you.
Also, go straight up to the parents and ask them if she's had her vision checked lately. Because she's can't seem to see the ball well. Just leave it at that. It is possible she needs glasses & folks wont take her

Are you serious? If so then a lot of junior tennis players need to go straight to the optician.
I really don't think it's about vision it's about wanting to win so much you'll compromise your own dignity.

 

[Fintendo]

I have another suggestion for you.
Also, go straight up to the parents and ask them if she's had her vision checked lately. Because she's can't seem to see the ball well. Just leave it at that. It is possible she needs glasses & folks wont take her

Are you serious? If so then a lot of junior tennis players need to go straight to the optician.
I really don't think it's about vision it's about wanting to win so much they'll compromise their own dignity.

 

[eeytennis]

I have read threads here on cheating, and sorry for bringing up this topic again but I just cant keep quiet after what happened to my daughter today.

She played a challenger in G12 group and was playing against a girl whom she had beated twice before. As soon as the set started, she started calling everyball close to the line out. My daughter questioned her and then kept quiet. It was quite distressing for us parents. We asked the umpire to look into it and luckily he obliged and stood close by as much as possible ( usually umpires only respond to players as you know and today we were lucky). Everytime he would turn back, she would call a ball out.

Nobody wins when a player cheats. What the cheater does not realize is that once it works, they will try it again and again till everybody knows that they are bad line callers. Once they are branded as cheaters, it is very difficult to get that name erased, players dont want to mingle with them, and they are pretty much alone. This is really not good for them int he long run. I have seen some girls with good talent but bad line calling habits being isolated and ignored outside the courts and they have really gone back on their playing. I hope the parents realize this and ask their kids to be careful for thier own sake.

As for me I am so disgusted with tournament playing and feel like I should just pull her off from tournaments. I really see why the william sisters stoped playing tournaments.. totally understand...feeling cheated is the worst....

Anyway my daughter won in a tie breaker but I am still shaking....

Shaking? I know it's very frustrating to watch but it's a tennis match, not a life or death situation and you will run into this MANY more times during your daughter's matches throughout the years. Anyway though, for my 2 cents on this issue, you can't do much about cheaters, except tell your daughter to stand her ground and to not be afraid to question a line call if she thinks it's called wrongly. However, make sure she doesn't turn into one of those players who is constantly questioning line calls...they too gain a bad reputation more often than not. Refs in USTA tournament really don't do a lot and seemingly never there when the line calls get sticky, so don't rely on them.

The cheating has gotten out of line with so many players, but really, even if people cheat, if they aren't good enough players to beat their opponent, they probably won't win anyway.

 

[Truth_seeker]

Great advice from everybody...t hanks.. Yes I know I should not take it that seriously... but when you see you daughter being cheater, it really brings out the parent in you...

btw..off topic...I have a statement for tennismom42.....

Good guess that I am a "woman" and that i am 'married" because you state..."If you & your husband attend...."!! not that I am saying you are correct or not.. but good guess!!! LOL....

 

[tennismom42]

Great advice from everybody...t hanks.. Yes I know I should not take it that seriously... but when you see you daughter being cheater, it really brings out the parent in you...

btw..off topic...I have a statement for tennismom42.....

Good guess that I am a "woman" and that i am 'married" because you state..."If you & your husband attend...."!! not that I am saying you are correct or not.. but good guess!!! LOL....

I've worked 5 14-hour days this week, for a total of 70 hours. (Besides my bookkeeping job, I also prepare taxes.) Trust me, it was just a lucky guess. I assumed your daughter is fortunate enough to have two parents who care a lot about her & her tennis.

Just so you know, the hooking stuff disapates with age. It pretty much stopped around age 16 1/2. The kids are mature enough by then to deal with it in their own ways. Plus, the cheaters start to care about their reputation.

As my son heads to college in the fall, I hear that cheating is absolutely aweful & prevalent in college tennis. Oh joy! But that is his problem. My youngest is 8 and I am starting this process all over again as he too is good at tennis. I expect in 2 - 4 years the little guy will be suffering through this stage.

tennismom42 = for two

 

[SoCal10s]

Just so you know, the hooking stuff disapates with age. It pretty much stopped around age 16 1/2. The kids are mature enough by then to deal with it in their own ways. Plus, the cheaters start to care about their reputation.
tennismom42 = for two

I see a lot more cheating in girls tennis than boys tennis... the boys side do kind of dissipates with age but I see the older seems to cheat as they get older too... the guys seems to somehow alienate those who cheat,but the girls just pretend they're all friends and don't get on each other about it... they just cry in dis-belief how their friend can cheat them,and then afterwards they still talk to each other.. on the other hand,guys really give those who cheat a verbal beating ,so they know it...

 

[10isDad]

As my son heads to college in the fall, I hear that cheating is absolutely aweful & prevalent in college tennis. Oh joy! But that is his problem.

First, I assume you mean awful and not full of awe?

On to your "I hear" comment. I've seen dozens of college matches and have never seen and out and out cheat. I've seen some missed calls that were likely accidental. I've seen lots of out balls (very close - but out) played. I've heard players frequently question the chair umpire with "out?!" queried in an incredulous manner (the balls have always looked out to me).

At the same time, the running joke among the college players from the club who come back in the summer: "Nice shot - would have been out if I were one of the foreign guys, though". The implication being that cheating is more prevalent with the foreign players than the US players. Of course, the presence of foreign players is fairly prevalent itself.

I certainly haven't seen it in the Pac-10, however. This past weekend I witnessed a potential break of serve in doubles on a serve that was on the sideline but easily 6 inches long. The serve was not returnable, and the team with the break point did not call it out. Later in the match, the opposing team called a ball out, then immediately overruled themselves and called it good - in my opinion (I was sitting directly even with the baseline), the ball was out - very close, but out. All 4 of the women in this match were foreign.

 

[Bretto]

The cheats fade away in time...

 

[tacoben]

Not to sidetrack this issue, but isn't it the responsibility of the player and not the parent to approach the umpire?

 

[TennisProdigy]

Yawn... I play in b16s and b18s L2-L5 and all the cheaters already have a reputation so if you play them you just get a linesman after the first bad call. I've only had to get a linesman once out of close to 100 tournament matches and although I have seen some somewhat questionable calls for the most part the players are fair.

 

[Truth_seeker]

Yes I agree that its the responsibility of the player to call the line judge.

But this is a huge burden on the player.. I dont know of any other sport that puts this kid of burden on a player at this young age.

 

[SoCal10s]

Yes I agree that its the responsibility of the player to call the line judge.

But this is a huge burden on the player.. I dont know of any other sport that puts this kid of burden on a player at this young age.

actually it's a part of the learning process.. the kids needs to know how to handle different situations ,because afterall the other side of the net is also a kid.. if a kid gets handled by an adult then it's a dfferent situation .. but your daughter must learn to stand on her own 2 feet,no matter how long this process may take.. you can't do everything for her,it's not healthy,so let her be..she must adapt, until she can't stand be taken advantage any longer.. if she wants to be a great competitor she has to learn to adapt,or she will fail..

 

[tacoben]

actually it's a part of the learning process.. the kids needs to know how to handle different situations ,because afterall the other side of the net is also a kid.. if a kid gets handled by an adult then it's a dfferent situation .. .

That is exactly where I wanted to take my point about parents calling in line judges. A friend of mine has a daughter who also plays tournments. My friend mentioned an incident involing his daughter's first tournament, the opponents father called the line judge because of alleged foot faulting....and get this, it was a novice tournament! So, that is the different perspective on this...it doesn't become a positive experience.

I do agree with the original poster that it is hard to contain yourself when someone is cheating against your own. In my daughter's last tourney, her opponent flipped the score card to her advantage (knowingly or unknowingly), and one situation of a double bounce that she did not call on herself. There is no honor in that, but the bottomline is that I have to tell/train my kid to be on top of the score and give her oppponent shots that can't be disputed.

 

[Julieta]

First, I assume you mean awful and not full of awe?

On to your "I hear" comment. I've seen dozens of college matches and have never seen and out and out cheat. I've seen some missed calls that were likely accidental. I've seen lots of out balls (very close - but out) played. I've heard players frequently question the chair umpire with "out?!" queried in an incredulous manner (the balls have always looked out to me).

At the same time, the running joke among the college players from the club who come back in the summer: "Nice shot - would have been out if I were one of the foreign guys, though". The implication being that cheating is more prevalent with the foreign players than the US players. Of course, the presence of foreign players is fairly prevalent itself.

I certainly haven't seen it in the Pac-10, however. This past weekend I witnessed a potential break of serve in doubles on a serve that was on the sideline but easily 6 inches long. The serve was not returnable, and the team with the break point did not call it out. Later in the match, the opposing team called a ball out, then immediately overruled themselves and called it good - in my opinion (I was sitting directly even with the baseline), the ball was out - very close, but out. All 4 of the women in this match were foreign.

People used to talk about being accused of cheating from time to time while playing abroad in the summers...the players would say "we know all American college players cheat." Probably the cheating accusations always get thrown around when someone "different" is across the net.

 

[rh310]

I haven't seen live college tennis since the late 90s but I recall seeing blatant cheating on the men's side of things.

Maybe things have improved since then.

 

[woodrow1029]

I haven't seen live college tennis since the late 90s but I recall seeing blatant cheating on the men's side of things.

Maybe things have improved since then.

The rules in Men's D1 tennis keep being changed because certain teams keep finding ways around them. Several of the new rules that have been adopted over the last several years including the no service lets, the receiver not being required to play at the reasonable pace of the server, no bathroom breaks, one medical time out per match are because of a few coaches that would instruct their players to abuse the rule the way it was.

 

[Roddickalltheway]

Although actual cheating might seem to go away, the mentality is still for sure there, if not more, in the 18s/16s. However, I think that the guys realize that the older you get, the more aggressive you will be in challenging calls and actually using officials, instead of in 12s. Like a 12 year old boy isn't going to get all up in another 12 year old's face, but an 18 year old isn't going to be afraid to challenge calls. My point is that although actual cheating might seem to go away as the kids get older, the mentality is still there but it just doesn't show itself as often because of the aggressiveness that starts to emerge.

 

[norcal22]

My advice is to tell your daughter to get through it. I know it's not fair etc and I've been playing tournaments for a long time, but once I started to ignore the cheaters or only asking them once they don't have so much fuel to fire their tactics. They thrive of the opponent breaking down due to their behaviour. If you can take that aspect away it will help your daughter's mental strength in the long run.

what thats really not true for the most part with cheaters. The cheaters strategy is to cheat line calls. Not to break you down mentally. though that comes with the cheating and may be part of the plan... but they definitely won stop if u make it seem like u dont care...

 

[max]

I have another suggestion for you.

If you & your husband attend, go stand in alignment with the baseline and/or service line, right at the fence. That girl will know why you are there. She will know that you have a better view than she does.

Also, go straight up to the parents and ask them if she's had her vision checked lately. Because she's can't seem to see the ball well. Just leave it at that. It is possible she needs glasses & folks wont take her

I disagree with this. This smacks of intimidation if the other girl is actually honest. It's helicopter parenting and could easily lead to fights.

This is a learning, growing moment for your daughter. She needs to step up to the plate and learn how to assert her rights in a firm way. You can help her with this, but it's a maturity thing she will have to do, comfortably, if she plans to keep playing competitive tennis.