eastern backhand grip for kick serve???
- Thread starter crazypro
- Start date
Recon
Semi-Pro
It is fine to serve with eastern backhand grip, as it forces you to really hit up on the ball and it's a more closed face angle, Could be the reason you are getting more kick. The only problem is that your second serve will be easily deciphered. If the player sees your eastern backhand grip, generally he/she will know automatically its a kick serve. So theirs no disguise. It is said the reason Pete Sampras serve was really a weapon was because of his unique ability to hit any serve with the same toss and the same grip. I find this so amazing. But yes. Eastern is fine, I think Djokovic serves with an eastern backhand on both 1st and 2nd serves if i'm not mistaken.
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jasoncho92
Professional
Unless i am mistaken, i recall reading that Pete's second serve toss was considerably higher than his first. This doesnt mean anything though since its obvious whether a first or second serve will be hit but other than that, his toss stayed constant so players couldnt guess a side easily.
fuzz nation
G.O.A.T.
Landing the serve tops the list of priorities and if the eastern backhand grip makes the kicker happen for you, do it to it. I shade toward that grip for my heavier kicker too, but continental is a good catch-all service grip that you'll eventually want to use more often than not.
Disguise of your serve becomes an issue only after consistency and placement are squared away and even if an opponent can see your giveaway grip, they still need to wait for the kicker's placement to set up a return. A lot of disguise is about placing a serve in different spots with a similar looking motion - placement is varied merely by adjusting the swingpath through the ball by a couple of degrees. As you groove your motion, you'll eventually be able to do different things with what appears to be generally the same delivery. The necessary grip for you is an essential building block, so use what works and hone a repeatable swing both for consistency and eventually for better disguise in your serve.
Disguise of your serve becomes an issue only after consistency and placement are squared away and even if an opponent can see your giveaway grip, they still need to wait for the kicker's placement to set up a return. A lot of disguise is about placing a serve in different spots with a similar looking motion - placement is varied merely by adjusting the swingpath through the ball by a couple of degrees. As you groove your motion, you'll eventually be able to do different things with what appears to be generally the same delivery. The necessary grip for you is an essential building block, so use what works and hone a repeatable swing both for consistency and eventually for better disguise in your serve.
Djokovicfan4life
Legend
bad_call
Legend
and what grip did Pete use for serving?
I inadvertently gradually evolved into an eastern backhand grip for second serves and found that I started shanking them because I was brushing too much. In addition I was hitting with less pace because I wasn't hitting through the ball as much. So I switched back to continental and have since been hitting better serves with more pace. For me eastern backhand was counterproductive but I can't say that is the same for everyone.
Yes, but i believe the point of the poster in specifying that the kicker should be generated by greater racquet head speed was to point out proper technique ahead of stand-ins for proper technique. i'm not saying either is "proper" (grip change or racquet speed), but i've always been taught to get the kick through whip action/head speed with the wrist and swing path rather than changing the grip.
i believe this can serve two purposes. A. it helps disguise serve variation as you get better (as many have mentioned), and B. it helps maintain a consistent swing speed which helps disguise the spin as well (even before pinpoint placement is developed). if you switch to an eastern backhand grip for the serve, you can produce similar spin/kick without the head speed...this is more noticable to your opponent then what grip you are holding. at least i notice this when i'm on the other side of the net.
Headshotterer
Professional
i find it is easier to get spin with the continental
just get the motion down and try hitting serves at the base line
just get the motion down and try hitting serves at the base line
Ballinbob
Hall of Fame
yes dude, eastern bh all the way for the kicker. You get a crap load more spin if you use it. I dont know why people like so much pace on their 2nd serve, the whole point to a 2nd serve to me is put as much topspin as you can on the ball so it goes in and bounces funny. If you want to serve hard then uhh...get your first in lol. By the way, a kick serve can still be a great first serve to approach the net,
LuckyR
Legend
Makes sense at 3.5
However the bounce that seems so funny is a pretty routine at the higher levels so better servers start adding back a lot more pace to the second serve. That is not to say I disagree with your grip advice. I too use the Eastern BH for spin serves.
Ballinbob
Hall of Fame
A heavy kick serve that has some serious spin will take you all the way to 4.5. You do not need a fast 2nd serve untill mabye upper 4.5. A good twist serve that will bounce 6-7 ft and bounce outwards to the backhand a good 3 feet will give even 4.5s trouble returning. Your right that a straight kick serve that is slow will work to the 3.5 level good, but the bounce becomes predictable. I think that if you can get some serious action on your twist serve then that will take you pretty far
i disagree... i've played 3.5s with strong kick 2nd serves, they may have had other problems with their game that held them back...and anyway, that's beside the point. one should strive to develop the technique with the most upside, my opinion is that learning to generate spin through racquet speed has greater upside as it allows more pace to be applied when development has reached that point. obviously, everyone should do what works best for them, there is no single correct method, but if i was learning the kick serve again, this is the approach i'd take...racquet head speed first to generate spin, then adjust the grip as needed.
LuckyR
Legend
Huh? Why would a 4.5 care that the twist was taking the ball to his backhand? A 4.5 should be pretty solid off of both wings. Trouble returning? If you mean they won't be hitting winners off of the serve, I agree with that. But your comment sounds like a 4.5 would make numerous errors getting their returns in the court. I would have to disagree with that.
Ballinbob
Hall of Fame
Were talking about a twist serve which is used for the 2nd serve. There is no way in hell someone could take a twister like I described and put himself in an offensive situation at the 4.5 level. The point of the 2nd serve is to put yourself in a neutral or slightly advantageous situation, at least thats what I consider a good 2nd serve. And a kicker like that will undoubtedly do that and even put the receiver at a disadvantage. You act like the kick serve I described is a joke to return...
LuckyR
Legend
You didn't answer my question but I'll read between the lines and say you agree that a 4.5 would not have trouble returning the ball, but might be at a disadvantage in the subsequent point since the return might not be very aggressive.
Then we are in agreement.
Ballinbob
Hall of Fame
Yeah thats what Im saying. By the way, there are alot of 4.5s that arent solid off both sides and just have 1 side a weapon,or just their serve a big weapon and average 4.0 groundies. Its rare to find someone who is perfectly even on both sides, and most are weaker on the backhand side. But yeah, a 4.5 wouldnt get the return for a winner but would definitley be at a disadvantage
SirBlend12
Semi-Pro
You guys could stop your little fight anytime and get back to advice for those who need it.
Eastern backhand is fine for any serve. Continental is fine for any serve. Eastern forehand is fine for any serve.
How is this possible?
PEOPLE ARE DIFFERENT.
I hit topspin, juicy topspin, with an Eastern forehand (if I choose so).
I hit kickers with all of the above grips (depending on the serve I want to hit).
Whatever works for each person is fine. People's bodies don't all work the same.
However, by the ancient rule of thumb, serves are to be hit with a Continental. Then again...
More loopy spin = closer toss, continental
More pace = farther toss, Eastern BH
And for fun... Reverse Twist (a.k.a. breaks in opposite direction) outward 11 o' clock toss and Eastern/ Extreme Eastern forehand in downward motion
It's hard to hit, but you'll get some strange looks (and maybe some points) off your opponent.
Do what works for you. If nothing else, just do what works for YOU.
StumpyDaMooseGod
Rookie
Eastern backhand is the same thing as western right? I can't understand how to hit kicks or imagine it with this grip. Would someone please post a video or picture please? 
SirBlend12
Semi-Pro
Sorry. I went a tad overboard. but really, try it sometime. You have to aim really wide with it, though, otherwise it'll just end up in front of you. It's fun to see an opponents reaction to it if it works.
Trying new serves (even HIGHLY unconventional ones) can be a good thing.
(Things I've Learned From Michael Chang)
EBH Service Block
The key is learning to rotate your forearm [called pronation] in to the ball while keeping your arm and wrist very very loose. Also the toss should not be to your right but more over your head or to the left and not in front of you but more toward the back fence.
If you learn it, you will get a very heavy ball with massive spin but also good pace if you hit thru it rather than brush up behind it.
Not easy to learn without a good instructor who knows how to hit it well to teach you.
The first time someone told me to serve with an EBH grip [same position as a Western FH] I thought they were nuts too.Eastern backhand is the same thing as western right? I can't understand how to hit kicks or imagine it with this grip. Would someone please post a video or picture please?
The key is learning to rotate your forearm [called pronation] in to the ball while keeping your arm and wrist very very loose. Also the toss should not be to your right but more over your head or to the left and not in front of you but more toward the back fence.
If you learn it, you will get a very heavy ball with massive spin but also good pace if you hit thru it rather than brush up behind it.
Not easy to learn without a good instructor who knows how to hit it well to teach you.
StumpyDaMooseGod
Rookie
Thanks for the help. =)
LuckyR
Legend
It is true that you can find an individual who can hit this or that serve with this or that grip. However, for a player seeking advice, they need to first figure out which grip is best for their flat serve. For many that will be Continental. For those folks moving to an EBH grip will make spin more accessible. However, if you are a bevel or two on either side of the Continental for your neutral (flat) serve then moving your grip counterclockwise (to whichever grip that would be) would be doing the same thing, regardless of which grip that might end up being.
Some days I use continental some days I use eastern. Most of the time I'll stick with the same grip for both first and second serves. I haven't decided which I like better yet. I think I can be a little lazier with the eastern and still hit some good serves, so I tend to go to that grip if I'm having trouble with the sun or wind.
montrealraaj
New User
I know it's an older thread but wanted to share my recent experience with EBH Grip on my serve.
My toss is a little in front, so by chance I hit up (slightly lower than the horizontal axis of the ball / 7-11) with EBH Grip on my second serve with body still facing the side fence while contact and finally the ball kicked up to the opponent's head level.
This was something that I could never get before.
For rest of the match I was only serving this for both first and second serves. So, I could have enough confidence to pull this out any time I wanted.
My toss is a little in front, so by chance I hit up (slightly lower than the horizontal axis of the ball / 7-11) with EBH Grip on my second serve with body still facing the side fence while contact and finally the ball kicked up to the opponent's head level.
This was something that I could never get before.
For rest of the match I was only serving this for both first and second serves. So, I could have enough confidence to pull this out any time I wanted.
