mike danny
Bionic Poster
I'd argue the opposite: the HC competition was pretty strong if a Nadal who'd reached prime level on clay and grass couldn't go deep in a HC slam.
Federer is 0-7 against top-2 in hardcourt Slams
- Thread starter Lew II
- Start date
nolefam_2024
Talk Tennis Guru
Lol it was not because of strong competition he lacked. It sucked. That's how you had Gonzalez Baghadatis in finals. Even Roddick and Hewitt were scrubs.
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NoleFam
Bionic Poster
Lol. His record on hardcourt from 2003-2007 was 71%. It was 62.5% against the top 50. Tough competition was the reason in years like 2006?
Mustard
Bionic Poster
Nadal won the 2005 Canadian Open and 2005 Madrid Indoors. He also beat Federer in the 2006 Dubai final. Not bad for someone who "sucked" on hardcourt.
nolefam_2024
Talk Tennis Guru
This means NOTHING. He made zero slam finals on hc. Barely made 2 semis in 2008 and got destroyed by tsonga, a newcomer, in Melbourne. It was the most devastating loss of his career. Nadal matured on hard courts in 2008 though, he was able to withstand the pressure of Fed's weak era champions. And he was only beaten by Murray and Tsonga who were both his era players.
Mustard
Bionic Poster
Nadal took longer to do better at hardcourt majors. Okay. One of those things. That 2008 Australian Open semi final is probably the best match of Tsonga's career.
Winning Super 9s at age 19 is not something someone who "sucks" does. And beating Federer in 2006 on hardcourt is something else.
nolefam_2024
Talk Tennis Guru
That's good but since he was the one able to beat Federer but not good enough to reach Federer, how difficult was federer's hard court competition really. It looks oxymoron. That he is able to beat the best player on hc but not even able to reach him. And then fans say oh see fed won when Nadal was world number 2.
Mustard
Bionic Poster
Nadal's issues on hardcourt in that period with players like Blake, Youzhny, Berdych, was due to matchup. They were hard, flat hitters.
Biotic
Hall of Fame
Anything was possible in the Srichaphan era.
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
Nadal was worse on hardcourt in 2006 and 2007 than 2005 which is weird. He regressed instead of improved. He went from an 82.4% win percentage in 2005 to 71.4% in 2006 and 72.1% in 2007. Even though he lost to Hewitt and Blake in earlier rounds in hardcourt Slams in 2005, those were better losses than the ones he took in hardcourt Slams in 2006 and 2007. Nothing he could do against Blake in 2005. Conditions were just too fast for him and Blake had too much power. He just blew through Nadal.
nolefam_2024
Talk Tennis Guru
Ok. But then they are the ones a strong hc player will dominate right. Djokovic went 21-0 vs Berdych and 3-0 vs Blake.
He went 7-3 vs Youzhey but even there he played him hard in the 3 defeats.
There is no way Nadal is as strong as he is portrayed here. He is okay on hc before 2008 but due to his godly performance on clay, went to number 2 spot. He did not make much noise on hc then. He had 2 wins at slam and masters level combined till 2007 vs top 5 opponents. And he was number 2 for more than 100 weeks here. He didn't even reach the top 5 players most times.
Mustard
Bionic Poster
Djokovic was manhandled by Safin at 2008 Wimbledon.
nolefam_2024
Talk Tennis Guru
Yes so we don't claim he is good on grass until 2011.
Mustard
Bionic Poster
But he was at 2008 Queen's Club, and 2007 Wimbledon. LOL.
nolefam_2024
Talk Tennis Guru
Yeah but he hadn't matured. No big wins. He didn't take a set from Nadal in 2008 queens club.
Mustard
Bionic Poster
Yet a very high quality match.
nolefam_2024
Talk Tennis Guru
But vs Nadal. Not Federer. Nadal lacks good serve and has matchup issue vs Nole.
Mustard
Bionic Poster
Nadal once led Djokovic 14-4 in their head-to-head. Not bad against someone that he has a matchup issue with.
nolefam_2024
Talk Tennis Guru
Yeah because Nole lacked physicality to go vs Nadal. It's not because nadal's game is superior at all. Nole has gone 7-0 twice vs him.
InsideOut900
Legend
Aside from AO 05 and obviously AO 09, Nadal was pretty garbo in his HC Slam runs pre-2010.
USO 07-09 Djoko would beat every USO version of Nadal from 05-09 and at AO, he was no better than 09-10 Djoko and way way worse than 08 Djoko.
It has nothing to do with the level of competition considering he almost won half the HC Masters in 2005. He simply didn't deliver at that level in Slams independent of his opponents and that's fine, you cannot be perfect everywhere.
I bet the majority of the losses came before 2011. But I can name the 2 losses: '13 #2 Nadal, and '21 #2 Med.
Neptune
Hall of Fame
On hardcourt, Nole was only once behind at 0-1, swiftly equalizing to 1-1 as a teenager. Subsequently, Rafa was never able to take the lead, and after 2011, the rivalry became heavily one-sided.
nolefam_2024
Talk Tennis Guru
And Nole retired in 2 matches. He was supremely unfit vs Nadal who had no such issues. Nadal just had so much more stamina than Nole. He could wear down Nole in rallies.
Neptune
Hall of Fame
Not on HC.
nolefam_2024
Talk Tennis Guru
True. I am saying he was so unfit in those days. I don't take the 2010 USO and subsequent Nadal wins away. By this time Nole had added some serious stamina to go along with his game.
Neptune
Hall of Fame
It is great that Nole solves Fedal, otherwise will be doomed as party crasher.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
Well, it was said in jest mostly, but I'm pretty sure people would mock the HC field too if baby Nadal could reach slam finals.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
He did regress indeed for some reason. Although he was pretty good in IW and Miami in 2007 and only Djoko prevented him from winning the Sunshine Double. Good runs in Dubai and YEC in 2006 too.
I'd argue the Gonzalez loss wasn't that bad either, but the Youzhny loss was yikes.
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
He was good in sunshine double 2007 which I agree with. Federer losing to that version of him in Dubai in those conditions should never happen. Shows that matchup was a problem for him very early on.
He got destroyed by Gonzalez. How was it not a bad loss? He didn't even make it a match.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
Not a bad loss in terms of who he lost to. Gonzo was on fire that tournament to be fair. Better than losing to Youzhny who I never understood how he troubled Nadal.
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
He was the #2 player in the world and had 2 Slams, and was blown off the court. Of course it was a bad loss. Not as much that he lost but how he lost.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
Fair enough.
Neptune
Hall of Fame
Federer never beat a top-2 in the hardcourt Slams. His score is 0-8.
vs #2 Agassi UO 2001
vs #1 Nadal AO 2009
vs #1 Djokovic UO 2011
vs #2 Nadal AO 2012
vs #1 Nadal AO 2014
vs #1 Djokovic UO 2015
vs #1 Djokovic AO 2016
Update: vs #2 Djokovic AO 2020
Yet he is the title record holder. Crazy stuff.
Where are the No.2s during all those Fed's good years (2004-08)? Where is Rafa?
Federer and Del Potro
Bionic Poster
Whatever happened to Lew?
The Blond Blur
G.O.A.T.
He got deservedly perma banned. He spammed a ton, but the straw that broke the camel’s back was the racist thread he made.
Too busy losing to strong players such as Hewitt, Blake, Gonzalez.
Once Djokovic became the Goat, Lew lost his purpose and now he is wandering aimlessly.
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