Federer was no rival of Nole

[Watch The Ball]

I haven't said much. Just that maybe because it was so long ago Fed beat Djokovic it's what gives OP this impression. It's not like Federer and Djokovic didn't play much either after 2012. They played 7 times in slams.

it's cuz fed lost all the slam matches which are the most important

 

[Azure]

I don't understand why Rafa doesn't call Nole his chief rival. By the same logic, Nole gave Rafa the most big losses while Rafa gave Roger the most big losses.

Yet it's Nole who says Roger is his chief rival along with Rafa but Rafa never said so.

For fed who was his chief rival if not for Nole. Yes Rafa took away his 1 AO and 1 Wimby and around 4 RG. Maybe just 3.

But Nole took away his AO 2008, 2011, 2016. Wimby 14/15/19 and USO 2015 and maybe one of the more usopens. So who took more away Rafa or Nole.

Why? Because Nadal had a full ATG career before Novak even put himself on the path to ATG status and Federer was his biggest rival in that era. Its really simple…Federer and Nadal did already have a great career before 2011. For some reason Novak fans seem to think everything started in 2011.

 

[nolefam_2024]

Djokovic hasn’t even won 50% of the points he played vs. Federer. The rivalry was extremely close and a few points here and there and things are turned greatly.

From 2006 to end of 2010

• Federer led 13-6
• 1.14 dominance ratio (not counting Davis Cup beating)
• won 51.8% of all points (over 52% if you count Davis Cup beating).
• 14 of these matches took place after Djokovic had made his first slam final. 12 of these matches took place after Djokovic had already won a slam (13 if we want to count the match at the 2008 Australian open itself).

From 2011 to end of 2019 (13 matches played in 2011 and 2015, Djokovic‘s best years; 8 matches were in 2015 alone and Federal was 34–35 years old.

• Djokovic was 20-10
• 1.03 dominance ratio
• Won 50.6% of all points

Older wFederer, between the ages of 30 and 38 played Djokovic 30 times during Djokovic‘s peak years and in those 30 matches, Djokovic only won 50.6% of all the points as the matches were very, very close.

Peak Djokovic could rarely easily defeat older post prime Federer, regardless of how old Federer got. Even if you take just 2011, Djoko won 51.6% of points and had a 1.08 Dominance Ratio. If you take just 2015, Djoko only won 50.5% of points and had a 1.01 dominance ratio



All the years of fighting off to younger all-time greats, who are 5 to 6 years younger than he was, had a great effect on his psyche. But if you look at the points played, these were extraordinarily close matches, and even an older post prime, post peak WFederer played peak Djokovic to a near standstill.

2006 2007 Djokovic was a teenager. You get kick out of seeing teenager bullied ?

 

[messiahrobins]

Nole became a true contender after 2010 RG in slams. Since then he was never bothered by Federer at all. Let's take a look at all their slam matches.

USOpen 2010 - didn't matter. Nadal was too strong
AO 2011 - Not even a set lost
RG 2011 - Biggest win of Roger's vs Novak and did dent a bit of his aura
USO 2011 - Nole won the whole thing
RG 2012 - Inconsequential
Wimbledon 2012 - Possible but Murray has not even lost a set vs Nole
Wimbledon 2014 - Couldn't stop Nole
Wimbledon 2015 - Couldn't stop Nole
USOpen 2015 - Couldn't stop Nole
AO 2016 - Couldn't stop Nole
Wimbledon 2019 - Couldn't stop Nole
AO 2020 - Couldn't stop Nole

In a whole decade Federer dented Nole for probably just 1 slam.

Even Murray has had more impact. 2 slam finals won. Stretched to five in RG2015
Thiem - Stopped in RG 2019 where he had real chance for 4 in a row
Wawrinka - Stopped 3 times point blank and once while injured
Nadal - Stopped time after time. USO 2010, RG2012, RG 2013, USO 2013, RG 2014, RG 2020, RG 2022. In all these matches its very very possible that without Nadal, Nole would have won the slams. So around 5/6 slams of Nole are taken away from Nadal.

How much will Federer matter in Novak's career?

6 years apart is a different era in truth. Dont tell nike though.

 

[Azure]

2006 2007 Djokovic was a teenager. You get kick out of seeing teenager bullied ?

Well a teenage Nadal was not being bullied…you guys like to bring up the one year age gap between Nadal and Djokovic but never explain why Djokovic needed to wait a full four to five years before becoming the player that Nadal became a good few years earlier.

 

[Watch The Ball]

Well a teenage Nadal was not being bullied…you guys like to bring up the one year age gap between Nadal and Djokovic but never explain why Djokovic needed to wait a full four to five years before becoming the player that Nadal became a good few years earlier.

djokovic augmented his second serve and backhand in 2011 leading to his ATG rise from being a TTG

 

[Azure]

djokovic augmented his second serve and backhand in 2011 leading to his ATG rise from being a TTG

Whats TTG?

 

[Watch The Ball]

Whats TTG?

TTG stands for transitional-time great. Anybody 1-5 slams is a TTG

 

[Azure]

TTG stands for transitional-time great. Anybody 1-5 slams is a TTG

And you think Novak is one? If yes, I don’t agree. To me all three are titans of the game.

 

[Watch The Ball]

And you think Novak is one? If yes, I don’t agree. To me all three are titans of the game.

novak was a ttg from 2008 to 2010. then emerged as atg in 2011

 

[Sentinel]

Why the insecurity, OP ?

 

[Razer]

Well a teenage Nadal was not being bullied…you guys like to bring up the one year age gap between Nadal and Djokovic but never explain why Djokovic needed to wait a full four to five years before becoming the player that Nadal became a good few years earlier.

But that did not benefit Nadal, the 9 slams lead was brutally cut down by Djokovic.
Federer's 15 slams lead was also cut down by Djokovic.

So basically he was superior to both of them.

Plain and simple, if someone peaked earlier I see them as bigger losers because the earlier your start the easier it to build a headstart and yet you end up behind ?

Now imagine if Stan Wawrinka wining his first slam in 2013 had marched to win 25 slams by 2023 ? Today we would be hailing him as Superman ahead of even Novak.


So Djokovic is the biggest hero of them all, Federer and Nadal are below him for sure, the way he cut down their leads and emerged ahead is the proof

 

[MichaelNadal]

2019 YEC loss took the year end #1 away from him…

I will forever be grateful

 

[Razer]

Coming from behind and overtaking his rivals is what cemented Djokovic's position as the Greatest of them all.

It is beyond debate now.

 

[BeatlesFan]

Its really simple…Federer and Nadal did already have a great career before 2011. For some reason Novak fans seem to think everything started in 2011.

Prior to 2011, Fed had won 16 slams, including winning both the USO and Wimbledon five straight times.

Prior to 2011, Rafa had won 9 slams.

So actually tennis didn't magically begin in 2011. But when people start watching tennis in 2016 and thinks they know it all ("Pete who?" "Edberg could volley?"), we are subjected to threads like this on a constant basis. When Djokovic retires, we'll be spared all this when they can hang in former pro forum.

 

[Razer]

Prior to 2011, Fed had won 16 slams, including winning both the USO and Wimbledon five straight times.

Prior to 2011, Rafa had won 9 slams.

So actually tennis didn't magically begin in 2011. But when people start watching tennis in 2016 and thinks they know it all ("Pete who?" "Edberg could volley?"), we are subjected to threads like this on a constant basis. When Djokovic retires, we'll be spared all this when they can hang in former pro forum.

@nachiket nolefam started watching Tennis in 2012, he has never hidden this fact. So instead of proving seniority as being superior we should explain to him why Federer is biggest rival of Nadal and not Djokovic. This thread by him as an attempt to understand that, I see nothing wrong in it.

 

[MichaelNadal]

[USER=743353]@nachiket nolefam[/USER] started watching Tennis in 2012, he has never hidden this fact. So instead of proving seniority as being superior we should explain to him why Federer is biggest rival of Nadal and not Djokovic. This thread by him as an attempt to understand that, I see nothing wrong in it.

This explains so much.

 

[ghostofMecir]

2006 2007 Djokovic was a teenager. You get kick out of seeing teenager bullied ?

Federer had match points in three of these matches, won the DR in two others. You’re literally talking about a two points away from having a 21-21 slam count though Fed could have won the USO Final to go ome up or Nadal won to go one up himself.

2011-2019 Djokovic played a late prime, post prime, and grandpa Fed and the matches were very, very close at 1.03 DR.

From 2011 to end of 2019 (13 matches played in 2011 and 2015, Djokovic‘s best years; 8 matches were in 2015 alone and Federal was 34–35 years old.

• Djokovic was 20-10
• 1.03 dominance ratio
• Won 50.6% of all points

 

[Azure]

But that did not benefit Nadal, the 9 slams lead was brutally cut down by Djokovic.
Federer's 15 slams lead was also cut down by Djokovic.

So basically he was superior to both of them.

Plain and simple, if someone peaked earlier I see them as bigger losers because the earlier your start the easier it to build a headstart and yet you end up behind ?

Now imagine if Stan Wawrinka wining his first slam in 2013 had marched to win 25 slams by 2023 ? Today we would be hailing him as Superman ahead of even Novak.


So Djokovic is the biggest hero of them all, Federer and Nadal are below him for sure, the way he cut down their leads and emerged ahead is the proof

who’s talking about benefits? Of course Rafa didn’t benefit. He had to beat a champion from the time he was a teen…time after time and then comes Novak again a few year’s later.

 

[Azure]

@nachiket nolefam started watching Tennis in 2012, he has never hidden this fact. So instead of proving seniority as being superior we should explain to him why Federer is biggest rival of Nadal and not Djokovic. This thread by him as an attempt to understand that, I see nothing wrong in it.

Then why make declarations in the OP’s? I only see statements and no genuine questions

 

[Razer]

who’s talking about benefits? Of course Rafa didn’t benefit. He had to beat a champion from the time he was a teen…time after time and then comes Novak again a few year’s later.

Thats right, Nadal started fighting Federer at the highest level before Novak/Murray did, but my point is Nadal already had 8 slams lead over Novak and 9 slams lead over Murray in 2010, so that means he has a headstart. It is like 2 guys who are 30 years old, one of them is a fresher and starts working and other one has 10 years experience and is a manager in at a big company, the fresher is at a serious disadvantage because he is behind someone of his age by 10 years. To bypass that is almost impossible in the line of work unless for some strokes of genius or tremendous unconventional career growth+learning abilities. I see it like that, Nadal was established and an ATG in 2010, see what happened from 2011 and the way Novak mercilessly chased both guys down. He already said in 06-07 that these guys are beatable, the whole world laughed at him, then he proved it today when he is ahead. It is a stroke of genius. Thats why I rate him ahead since he emerged ahead, now Nadal might have his own reasons of wear and tear but that is no excuse, fitness and maintenance of body is a part of being better. Thats why the goat debate for me is properly settled if Novak keeps the lead.

 

[Azure]

Thats right, Nadal started fighting Federer at the highest level before Novak/Murray did, but my point is Nadal already had 8 slams lead over Novak and 9 slams lead over Murray in 2010, so that means he has a headstart. It is like 2 guys who are 30 years old, one of them is a fresher and starts working and other one has 10 years experience and is a manager in at a big company, the fresher is at a serious disadvantage because he is behind someone of his age by 10 years. To bypass that is almost impossible in the line of work unless for some strokes of genius or tremendous unconventional career growth+learning abilities. I see it like that, Nadal was established and an ATG in 2010, see what happened from 2011 and the way Novak mercilessly chased both guys down. He already said in 06-07 that these guys are beatable, the whole world laughed at him, then he proved it today when he is ahead. It is a stroke of genius. Thats why I rate him ahead since he emerged ahead, now Nadal might have his own reasons of wear and tear but that is no excuse, fitness and maintenance of body is a part of being better. Thats why the goat debate for me is properly settled if Novak keeps the lead.

I see it that he had more years at the slam level from 2005. Its not easy. To me all three are too close for me to put one over another.

 

[Sampras-Bruguera 1993]

Fed will forever be the lapdog of Nadal/Djokovic.. He was only comfortable running roughshod over pretenders like Roddick, Baghdatitis, Kiefer, Gonzales, Ljubicic etc.. Product of a vaccuum, overinflated era where he could take comfortable leads and not have to worry about resistance and challenges that pushed his mental capacity to the brink

 

[Winners or Errors]

Right, Federer, being six years older, was not Djokovic’s rival, but the older player he was supposed to beat when he came into his own. Duh. The question is where the younger player to challenge Djokovic was… non-existent is the answer.

 

[jl809]

2007 was in a final and Djokovic had set points in the first two sets lol… what do you even mean he wasn’t old enough. He was literally in the Final going toe to toe with Fed!

 

[SonnyT]

Federer had match points in three of these matches, won the DR in two others. You’re literally talking about a two points away from having a 21-21 slam count though Fed could have won the USO Final to go ome up or Nadal won to go one up himself.

2011-2019 Djokovic played a late prime, post prime, and grandpa Fed and the matches were very, very close at 1.03 DR.

From 2011 to end of 2019 (13 matches played in 2011 and 2015, Djokovic‘s best years; 8 matches were in 2015 alone and Federal was 34–35 years old.

• Djokovic was 20-10
• 1.03 dominance ratio
• Won 50.6% of all points

Now Djokovic is 36, and nobody says he's late prime, post prime and grandpa Djoko.

Fedfans think of all kinds of excuses to get him off the hook. But you never think of using age excuses against anybody else except Djokovic.

 

[nolefam_2024]

Now Djokovic is 36, and nobody says he's late prime, post prime and grandpa Djoko.

Fedfans think of all kinds of excuses to get him off the hook. But you never think of using age excuses against anybody else except Djokovic.

True.

 

[mike danny]

Federer mattered a lot for Novak that's why he was so motivated to play his best roger compared to others

But yes, federer gave only two defeats in slams to Djokovic from 2010 onwards.
Losing 2 matches from 40-15 up is just disaster.

Agree with most of you nachiket. Where r u from. Which town

Well, it was expected as Fed is 6 years older. Still, he could've won 2 more matches.

 

[Winners or Errors]

Now Djokovic is 36, and nobody says he's late prime, post prime and grandpa Djoko.

Fedfans think of all kinds of excuses to get him off the hook. But you never think of using age excuses against anybody else except Djokovic.

No, he’s definitely an old, declining star. He has been for the last 5 years or so. He has shown his age in a number of matches. That said, I do agree that he may be the best 36 year old (edit: tennis player) ever.

 

[nolefam_2024]

No, he’s definitely an old, declining star. He has been for the last 5 years or so. He has shown his age in a number of matches. That said, I do agree that he may be the best 36 year old ever.

EVVVERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

 

[SonnyT]

Federer had match points in three of these matches, won the DR in two others. You’re literally talking about a two points away from having a 21-21 slam count though Fed could have won the USO Final to go ome up or Nadal won to go one up himself.

2011-2019 Djokovic played a late prime, post prime, and grandpa Fed and the matches were very, very close at 1.03 DR.

Late prime, post prime and grandpa Federer went on to win 3 of 6 slams during '17-18.

Grandpa Fed came on to dominate Nadal 6-1 after '15.

 

[ghostofMecir]

Now Djokovic is 36, and nobody says he's late prime, post prime and grandpa Djoko.

Fedfans think of all kinds of excuses to get him off the hook. But you never think of using age excuses against anybody else except Djokovic.

Everyone has been saying he is older except for Djokovic fans, who believe that he was some sort of exception to the rule. The minute a real talent showed up younger than Djokovic, Djokovic’s has had issues and will continue to have issues. That’s the whole point older all-time greats do not defeat younger, all-time greats in the last three rounds of slaMs. And we’re not talking about a 16 year old difference but we’re talking about a three-year difference. For players who are over the age of 33 only federer has great in a slam final since 1980

 

[Sephiroth]

Ironically Fred was slightly better vs egg than Nadal in 2011-2012

 

[Razer]

Everyone has been saying he is older except for Djokovic fans, who believe that he was some sort of exception to the rule. The minute a real talent showed up younger than Djokovic, Djokovic’s has had issues and will continue to have issues. That’s the whole point older all-time greats do not defeat younger, all-time greats in the last three rounds of slaMs. And we’re not talking about a 16 year old difference but we’re talking about a three-year difference. For players who are over the age of 33 only federer has great in a slam final since 1980

Jimmy Connors defeated John Mcenroe at 1982 wimbledon overcoming 7 years age gap
Jimmy Connors beats Ivan Lendl at 1984 Wimbledon overcoming 8 years age gap
Jimmy Connors straight setted Stefan Edberg at the 1989 US open overcoming 14 years age gap
John Mcenroe straight setted Boom Boom Becker at 1992 Aus Open overcoming 8 years age gap
Ivan Lendl defeated Boom Boom Becker at 1992 US open overcoming 7 years age gap
Novak Djokovic defeated Carlos Alcaraz at the 2023 French Open overcoming 16 years age gap

 

[Watch The Ball]

Right, Federer, being six years older, was not Djokovic’s rival, but the older player he was supposed to beat when he came into his own. Duh. The question is where the younger player to challenge Djokovic was… non-existent is the answer.

that younger ATG player is still non-existent

 

[TearTheRoofOff]

fed lost the matches that is all that matters despite points won or dominance ratio.

I figured this nihilistic take would emerge (again). Quality of performance in ruins.

 

[Watch The Ball]

I figured this nihilistic take would emerge (again). Quality of performance in ruins.

it is what it is. you have to accept.

 

[TearTheRoofOff]

it is what it is. you have to accept.

What, that how much of a fight is put up in a sporting contest is irrelevant in the appraisal of a contestant?

 

[Watch The Ball]

What, that how much of a fight is put up in a sporting contest is irrelevant in the appraisal of a contestant?

we can say fed was right there and was close, but he lost.

 

[TearTheRoofOff]

we can say fed was right there and was close, but he lost.

Yes.

 

[a10best]

@nachiket nolefam Jeezus. You just might have:
photoshopped images of Djokovic with you in the living room, or worse in the bathroom.
C'mon bro, this is obsessive to always see these fanboy biased threads every day I check in.
Insecure?

 

[ghostofMecir]

Jimmy Connors defeated John Mcenroe at 1982 wimbledon overcoming 7 years age gap
Jimmy Connors beats Ivan Lendl at 1984 Wimbledon overcoming 8 years age gap
Jimmy Connors straight setted Stefan Edberg at the 1989 US open overcoming 14 years age gap
John Mcenroe straight setted Boom Boom Becker at 1992 Aus Open overcoming 8 years age gap
Ivan Lendl defeated Boom Boom Becker at 1992 US open overcoming 7 years age gap
Novak Djokovic defeated Carlos Alcaraz at the 2023 French Open overcoming 16 years age gap

These are the exceptions.

Since 1980, 30+ year olds are 7-37 when facing younger all-time greats (at least 3 years younger) in Slam QFs/SFs/Fs.
*3-17 for 33+ year olds.

• Federer: 3W—10L
• Connors: 3W—15L
• Lendl: 1W—6L
• Agassi: 0W—3L
• McEnroe: 0W—3L
• Sampras: 0–0
• Nadal: 0-0
• Djokovic: 0-0

If you count Murray as an ATG, it’s 10 W, 38L.

• Federer: 6W—11L
• Connors: 3W—15L
• Lendl: 1W—6L
• Agassi: 0—3L
• McEnroe: 0W—3L
• Sampras: 0–0
• Nadal: 0-0
• Djokovic: 0-0

—Connors lost to McEnroe, 1980 Wimby SFs
—Connors lost to McEnroe, 1980 USO SFs
—Connors lost to Borg, 1981 USO SFs
—Connors lost to Borg, 1981 Wimby SFs
—Connors beat Lendl, 1982 USO F
—Connors beat Lendl,1983 USO F
—Connors lost to McEnroe, RG 1984 SFs
—Connors beat Lendl, 1984 Wimby SFs
—Connors lost to McEnroe. 1984 Wimby Fs
—Connors lost to McEnroe, 1984 USO SFs
—Connors Lost to Lendl, 1985 RG SFs
—Connors Lost to Lendl, 1985 USO SFs
—Connors Lost to Becker, 1987 RG QFs
—Connors Lost to Lendl, 1987 USO SFs
—Connors Lost to Agassi, 1988 USO QFs
—McEnroe Lost to Edberg, 1989 Wimby QF
—Connors Lost to Agassi, 1989 USO QFs
—Lendl Lost to Edberg, 1990 Wimby SFs
—Lendl Lost to Sampras, 1990 USO QFs
—McEnroe Lost to Sampras, 1990 USO SFs
—Lendl Beat Edberg, 1991 AO SFs
—Lendl Lost to Becker, 1991 AO Fs
—Connors Lost to Courier, 1991 USO SFs
—Lendl Lost to Edberg, 1991 USO SFs
—Lendl Lost to Edberg, 1992 AO QFs
—McEnroe Lost to Agassi, 1992 Wimby SFs
—Lendl Lost to Edberg, 1992 USO QFs
—Agassi Lost to Federer, 2004 USO QFs,
—Agassi Lost to Federer, 2005 AO QFs,
—Agassi Lost to Federer, 2005 USO F
—Federer Lost to Djokovic, 2011 USO
—Federer Lost to Nadal, 2012 AO
—Federer Beat Djokovic, 2012 Wimby SFs
—Federer Beat Murray, 2012 Wimby Fs (if you count Murray)
—Federer Lost to Murray, 2013 AO, SFs
—Federer Beat Murray, 2014 AO QFs (if you count Murray)
—Federer Lost to Nadal, 2014 AO SFs
—Federer Lost to Djokovic, 2014 Wimby Fs
—Federer Beat Murray, 2015 Wimby SFs (if you count Murray)
—Federer Lost to Djokovic. 2015 Wimby Fs
—Federer Lost to Djokovic, 2015 USO Fs
—Federer Lost to Djokovic, 2016 AO SFs
—Federer Beat Nadal, 2017 AO Fs
—Federer Lost to Nadal, 2019 RG SFs
—Federer Beat Nadal, 2019 Wimbledon SFs
—Federer lost to Djokovic, 2019 Wimbledon Fs
—Federer lost to Djokovic, 2020 AO SFs

For 33+ year olds

—Connors Lost to Lendl, 1985 RG SFs
—Connors Lost to Lendl, 1985 USO SFs
—Connors Lost to Becker, 1987 RG QFs
—Connors Lost to Lendl, 1987 USO SFs
—Connors Lost to Agassi, 1988 USO QFs
—Connors Lost to Agassi, 1989 USO QFs
—Connors Lost to Courier, 1991 USO SFs
—McEnroe Lost to Agassi, 1992 Wimby SFs
—Agassi Lost to Federer, 2004 USO QFs,
—Agassi Lost to Federer, 2005 AO QFs,
—Agassi Lost to Federer, 2005 USO F
—Federer Beat Murray, 2015 Wimby SFs (if you count Murray)
—Federer Lost to Djokovic. 2015 Wimby Fs
—Federer Lost to Djokovic, 2015 USO Fs
—Federer Lost to Djokovic, 2016 AO SFs
—Federer Beat Nadal, 2017 AO Fs
—Federer Lost to Nadal, 2019 RG SFs
—Federer Beat Nadal, 2019 Wimbledon SFs
—Federer lost to Djokovic, 2019 Wimbledon Fs
—Federer lost to Djokovic, 2020 AO SFs

 

[GoldenSwing]

Stupid post. Federer motivated Djokovic in every single way: consistency, all court play, longetivity, pushing to break records.

Djokovic has stated he wouldn’t be the tennis player he is today without Federer. So how can you a forum troll say anything like this?

 

[BauerAlmeida]

I am not erasing 2009 2010 at all. 2007 and 08 Nole was 20 and 21. I don't think even Andre can win at that age and he was from era where people won early. When did Andre win USOpen?

Djokovic wins USO 2007 w/o Federer, 2008 too. Has a good shot at 2009.
Has an outside shot at AO 2007.
Wimbledon 2012 is a good shot too, Murray was slamless at the time.

 

[Aestheticsaboveallelse]

TTG stands for transitional-time great. Anybody 1-5 slams is a TTG

No it means Tier Two Great

 

[Watch The Ball]

No it means Tier Two Great

no it means transitional-time great. i made the term

 

[Sudacafan]

You blew your troll post by not even admitting that Wimbledon 12 "dented" Djokovic lol

RG 11 semi prevented a nice Nole record.

 

[Sudacafan]

I am not putting troll post.

Sorry for the confusion.

 

[Aestheticsaboveallelse]

no it means transitional-time great. i made the term

Well I made it better

 

[chjtennis]

Federer beat Djokovic at RG 11 and Wimby 12, gave Djokovic hell in numerous other slams during Djokovic's peak and prime. In 2014, past his peak Federer led peak Djokovic in H2H, 3-2. Old Federer was still a major rival to Djokovic.