Limpinhitter
G.O.A.T.
Actually, Borg deserves all 5 places for mental toughness. The next best is #6.
Greatest Strokes of All Time - new book
- Thread starter Moose Malloy
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Actually, Borg deserves all 5 places for mental toughness. The next best is #6.
i think that if we are calling something like 'mental toughness' then we should include (i do realize the list doesnt belong to the OP) a lot of other categories, like speed, movement, intelligence, shot placement, shot selection, creativity, adaptability, and probably many others.
plus, i do think it is very noble to try to create a list that goes across all different decades, but i can't stop thinking that some of the people on that list would loose, on a shot against shot contest, against people who are not on the list but are, basicly, superior players.
plus, i do think it is very noble to try to create a list that goes across all different decades, but i can't stop thinking that some of the people on that list would loose, on a shot against shot contest, against people who are not on the list but are, basicly, superior players.
just a sidenote, i want to give as an example federer's backhand. i am far from suggesting it should be on the list, but i can easily see it being better, on game situation, than agassi's, than novak's, than safin's or some of the others. of course, more streaky than some, less powerfull than some, not so good over the shoulder, but as i said, on a game situation, how many times we saw him (and he is an example, i think we can give plenty of examples of how the superior player is just so much better overall that even his lesser shots are better than the competition better shots) dominate backhand against backhand? of course, because of movement, shot selection, etc...
Limpinhitter
G.O.A.T.
Deleted. Changed my mind.
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lol, but did you see me saying federer backhand should be on that list? i do agree on a pure shot by shot comparison those names (maybe not all) rank higher than federer's. dont get me wrong.
but i don't think all those players can get an upper hand against federer even if trying to exploit his backhand. (i should say it is silly to make this a conversation about federer, mea culpa)
but it's good you named nalbandian, we can add him to the mix, i think there is a good example of a guy who i DO THINK has a better backhand than federer's but is evident, looking at the matches, who has the upperhand even on backhand to backhand exchanges ( and we do count the slice as a backhand, right?)
meaning: i dont see that much sense on this best shot's list, that was my first point, basicly because a lot of thing come into play 'when playing a backhand', for example.
hope i made myself clear
but i don't think all those players can get an upper hand against federer even if trying to exploit his backhand. (i should say it is silly to make this a conversation about federer, mea culpa)
but it's good you named nalbandian, we can add him to the mix, i think there is a good example of a guy who i DO THINK has a better backhand than federer's but is evident, looking at the matches, who has the upperhand even on backhand to backhand exchanges ( and we do count the slice as a backhand, right?)
meaning: i dont see that much sense on this best shot's list, that was my first point, basicly because a lot of thing come into play 'when playing a backhand', for example.
hope i made myself clear
Limpinhitter said:
Hahaha! That flapping sound you hear is your credibility flying South. Seriously, Federer's backhand can be great, and it can also be erratic. But, even at its best, there are at least a dozen or more backhands in the history of tennis that are/were greater than Federer's backhand, inlcuding the backhands of Agassi, Connors, Laver, Kuerten, Djokovic, Edberg, Rosewall, Hoad, and quite a few more, on any surface, under any circumstances. There are probably half a dozen players right now with better backhands than Federer. Nalbandian, who has never won a major has a better backhand than Federer all day long. I think you need to reconsider your position on this.
i dont like answering to the void, so here is your answer. for the record, you 'changed your mind' and there is no evil in that
Hahaha! That flapping sound you hear is your credibility flying South. Seriously, Federer's backhand can be great, and it can also be erratic. But, even at its best, there are at least a dozen or more backhands in the history of tennis that are/were greater than Federer's backhand, inlcuding the backhands of Agassi, Connors, Laver, Kuerten, Djokovic, Edberg, Rosewall, Hoad, and quite a few more, on any surface, under any circumstances. There are probably half a dozen players right now with better backhands than Federer. Nalbandian, who has never won a major has a better backhand than Federer all day long. I think you need to reconsider your position on this.
i dont like answering to the void, so here is your answer. for the record, you 'changed your mind' and there is no evil in that
kiki
Banned
Hahahah.That is what looked like in Borg´s prime period.
Limpinhitter
G.O.A.T.
My bad. After I wrote it, I realized that I was responding to an argument that you didn't actually make.
Limpinhitter
G.O.A.T.
How many tennis players have an interstellar, hybrid machine/humanoid life form named after them?
kiki
Banned
true.There is also another player whose name spells for meteorite....
skaj
Legend
backhand category without Nalbandian is just not right, but I guess he was only picking gs winners or something like that. also the return of serve and lob.
I would rank Del Potro's forehand right after Federer and Nadal, and put Federer's name in 2nd serve.
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skaj
Legend
it's strange to see Steffi Graf among the best returners, let alone no2. on that list. she could punish a slow serve with her forehand, but many other girls could do it off both wings and with more aggression(Davenport, Serena for instance), plus there are other better returners like Clijsters, Hingis, Dementieva, Date..
Serena and Seles had great forehands of course, but I would put Pierce, Davenport and Stosur in top 5 instead.
Backhand looks good, although there are other backhands that are as great(Williams', Hingis, Sharapova, Sabatini...) it's hard to pick.
Seles at number 4 for mental toughness is too low, for me she is number one, or at least tied Evert.
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Again, it is really difficult to compare player's athleticism of Laver's era to today's players. No doubt Laver and Gonzalez were the best of their time, athletically and tennis wise. Rosewall, considering his size and natural body strength was an overachiever, sort of a better version of Ferrer today. Federer, Nadal, Djokovic, Murray and some others today are exceptional athletes, who had the advantage of modern advanced training techniques, sports medicine and superior nutrition. The other day I was reading an article Rosewall wrote about an upcoming Wimbledon final in either 14 or 15. He predicted the Novak would probably win a close match. He highly praised Novak's game, but it was obvious he worshiped Roger's game and longevity. Ken said that he would not have done as well for as long as Roger has in today's game, due to the many hard court tournaments and today's equipment which hurts a serve and volley game.
Limpinhitter
G.O.A.T.
It's not so difficult to compare players of the past with modern players if you've seen them play.
Just found some interesting info from the end of the 80's. Tennis Magazine asked the then current players about their opinion about best strokes.
Here the results:
Serve: Becker
Edberg
McEnroe
Return: Connors
Mecir
Nystrom
Forehand: Lendl
Gomes
Becker
Backhand: Connors
Wilander
Mecir
Here the results:
Serve: Becker
Edberg
McEnroe
Return: Connors
Mecir
Nystrom
Forehand: Lendl
Gomes
Becker
Backhand: Connors
Wilander
Mecir
ron schaap
Hall of Fame
I think sports has progressed over the years.
In atletics too, sporters are faster, higher than 30 years ago.
So when comparing tennis players from different periods, you just cant say this player is better than that player. Maybe more eye pleasing strokes, but better ?
Eg Nalbandian had a fantastic backhand, probably better than Agassi. Anyway you have to take footwork into account too.
Nobody should denies Djokers speed, gliding ability, agility. Thats why he was dominating the game for years. Murray is no slough either.
Limpinhitter
G.O.A.T.
Sporters are higher than 30 years ago? You see what medical marijuana has done to sporters!
skaj
Legend
true, he could've been included - backhand, serve, return.
also, the selection is missing the best shotmaker ever, Marcelo Rios.
The best strokes for that era, not all-time.
This era was probably the best in tennis history, modern tennis is a crap.
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