D
Deleted member 23235
Guest
lol... how "heavy" a ball is in this context, is pace + spin
I want to hit against an ATP100 for 30 mins.
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Shaolin
G.O.A.T.
Depth also plays a role imo.
Rattler
Hall of Fame
Not baiting you, but do you really think so?
li0scc0
Hall of Fame
That they would crush me 0 and 0? Definitely.
That I could hold my own? Yes, because they sought me out to hit.
Let's be perfectly honest. I was playing 5.0 at the time, so it isn't like an open male hitting against a 2.5. Still there's a ridiculous difference between open and a hard hitting 5.0. End result of a match would have been the same whether I was 5. 0 or 2.5.
Power Player
Bionic Poster
You held your own in a hitting session? Wow, you are such a stud.
Such a ridiculous way to look at it, but nothing is shocking with some of the fools who post here.
Benben245
Banned
Agassi used to give lessons in Vegas for 1500 an hour. I've hit with Monfils, Haas, Tiafoe, Wilander, and Courier. Haas was free, that was at PGA national. The rest was more or less charitable endeavors with Monfils hitting at the Scott Fitzgerald Tennis center in DC. I performed his flying fake volley where he looks as though he is about to slam a short ball into your nether regions but instead lightly taps it over the net; great sense of humor; he and I switched racquets, as we both had H19s his was far heavier
CT-Topspin
Rookie
All I need is 1? #goals
Bukowski
Professional
Why do you say you could hold your own against a challenger tour player? Vast majority of the top best college guys don't reach this level. The top 100 doesnt mean their skills are superior, they just do it more consistently. I knew a pro who reached top 500, couldn't compete with a 55 year old Mcenroe on the practice court.
CT-Topspin
Rookie
You cannot be serious.
Bukowski
Professional
He was several years removed and a bit heavier, but yes i am. Nice humor.
This is my biggest pet peeve on this forum, nobody with a ntrp rating can touch an active pro ranked inside the top 1000
CT-Topspin
Rookie
Would we say this board is an accurate representation of the USTA recreational demographic?
Bukowski
Professional
Unsure what you mean by this, and how its related to my previous post. Not flustered, just confused.
J011yroger
Talk Tennis Guru
There are people playing 5.0 with current ATP points so I suggest you get over your pet peve.
J
CT-Topspin
Rookie
So that $200/$300 an hour figure for guys with ATP points is an achievable goal then?
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haqq777
Legend
Just wanted to chime in and give my two cents. I played DII tennis for a strong school (south central) in early 2000s and we were top of our conference. Our guys - including me - were beating lower tier Div I school guys easily. And trust me, 100% of the guys knew they didn't have what it takes for turning pro. That is whole another ball game. I have seen these kids - some are my close friends - and the best of the best in the lot struggled in Satellites and then smaller Futures later one. Most don't even try because they know the reality and those who do, quit after seeing the reality.
Sparring is one thing - hitting neutral balls back to your opponent but building points and hitting your marks over and over again consistently big and heavy is not something a 5.0 or a 5.5 can do. The professional ATP top 100 level guys are absolutely more consistent and hit a bigger ball over and over again. You need a proper training regimen day in day out. Physio, rehab, recovery and then training etc. A proper routine along with a work ethic to envy. Talent alone doesn't cut it.
The current kids I hit with are from a smaller conference and a much smaller DII school and their #1 kid was a UTR 11.5 when he joined as a freshman. He graduated this year and plays mind boggling tennis. He is not even thinking about anything tennis because he knows his best shot - if he wants a tennis related profession - is probably getting a job as a pro in some country club. He is better off using his engineering degree.
From my experience and what I have personally seen I can tell you this: no, a 5.5 (if we are talking NCAA DivII tennis) is not close to anyone on the ATP circuit in top 100 - and that too by a big margin. Offcourse everyone is free to believe what they want
Sparring is one thing - hitting neutral balls back to your opponent but building points and hitting your marks over and over again consistently big and heavy is not something a 5.0 or a 5.5 can do. The professional ATP top 100 level guys are absolutely more consistent and hit a bigger ball over and over again. You need a proper training regimen day in day out. Physio, rehab, recovery and then training etc. A proper routine along with a work ethic to envy. Talent alone doesn't cut it.
The current kids I hit with are from a smaller conference and a much smaller DII school and their #1 kid was a UTR 11.5 when he joined as a freshman. He graduated this year and plays mind boggling tennis. He is not even thinking about anything tennis because he knows his best shot - if he wants a tennis related profession - is probably getting a job as a pro in some country club. He is better off using his engineering degree.
From my experience and what I have personally seen I can tell you this: no, a 5.5 (if we are talking NCAA DivII tennis) is not close to anyone on the ATP circuit in top 100 - and that too by a big margin. Offcourse everyone is free to believe what they want
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C
Chadillac
Guest
I dont think there is 5.5. The top league here is called 5.0, they arent 5.0 but no one complains, its for fun.
Bukowski
Professional
Oh, buddy.... Battistone used to play with a rich older fella who could pay his pay into futures and challenger qualifying...and obtain a point that way, but come on now
I played D1 for a ranked team and am watching guys who beat me down fail in futures qualifying
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J011yroger
Talk Tennis Guru
Yea, easily, they get coaching jobs out of college and the clubs make them play 5.0 and they play futures and money tournaments when they can.
J
J011yroger
Talk Tennis Guru
J011yroger
Talk Tennis Guru
It's 5.0+ so you can have 1 5.5 per match and they have to play line 1. Usually they start out self rating or appealing to 5.5 then after a year most come down to 5.0. It's very rare for someone to be able to beat the field badly enough to stay 5.5 and the USTA is very liberal with appeals for 5.5s.
J
J011yroger
Talk Tennis Guru
You need a wildcard into a challenger main draw to get a point without beating anyone.
Do you know why Brian isn't playing so well these days? He went 6&3 over a guy I rolled 2&2, injury?
J
Cage Rattler
Rookie
Some years ago played a Olympic doubles silver medallist 6 months before he won the medal .. top 10 dubs .. lost 5 and 2 in singles in a local competition which he entered whilst on holiday .. his serve, volleys amazing but once you got into a rally a different story. Think the difference is quite interesting between singles and doubles, esp. If you can a dubs pro onto the singles court. A top 10 WTA player used to come to my part of the world to practice before Aussie Open every year ... top local youngsters held their own in practice games when the serve was removed .. if serve included then bit of a disaster for the girl...
D
Deleted member 23235
Guest
true, in that the time from bounce to contact is reduced if the ball is hit deep.
but i can also "feel" a heavy ball hit at me at the net (ie. when i volley)
D
Deleted member 23235
Guest
i'm pretty sure "5.0+ league" by me, allows 5.5's to play at #1s (maybe #1d also?)
Julian Houston
Semi-Pro
It should be 6.0 then ATP tour rank 1000. Being ATP ranked player will shift u out of the amateur tennis scale.
5.5 can't be close to top100.
5.5 can't be close to top100.
Bukowski
Professional
Yes i have played USTA, the 5.0 leagues bore me to death, and i dont play much these days, and im not even that good tbh...
And yeah Brian is older, his game doesnt age well. He hasnt been doing well at the mens open for years.. losing to juniors.. plus doubles is his strength not singles
With regard to obtaining a point through a purchased WC, all it takes is a default or withdrawal. Getting a point is no glorious achievement. Go to Qatar or something and its bound to happen.
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J011yroger
Talk Tennis Guru
If there were a withdrawal a lucky loser would be put in from the qualies.
Fly to Qatar and hope someone rolls their ankle while kicking your ass? Seems like a stretch but if it's so common could you post a link to a draw where someone got a point without beating anyone or buying a wildcard into a challenger main draw?
J
Bukowski
Professional
Not necessarily, could happen first game of the match, or there could simply not be an available LL. I didn't say it was common, you just did. Dont know what point youre trying to prove.. It obviously happens. The reason I mention the Qatar scenario is that rich juniors can have their parents buy their way in and as i mentioned before well connected wealthy older players do similar, or they can go to weaker areas. But im trying to tie this into that players who travel ANY level of the tour are light years ahead of any rec level. Its similar with golf, football, and soccer. It has to be some classic psychological principal that just because you can dominate in your local league your level must somehow translate to pro ranks. There will always be anecdotal exceptions like an out of shape former pro who hasnt touched a racket in a while, losing in a 5.0 league match because there were no other options, but its just that, an anecdotal example. I mean let alone the guys who can win futures and have main draw challenger wins. Clay Thompson is an example, the guy has strange looking ground strokes, but he was a top dog in college. The dude couldnt make it on the tour. He did well, but couldnt make a living is what i mean. So to compare a rec level with people competing on the tour and in pro athlete physical condition is simply absurd, and in my view disrespectful.
J011yroger
Talk Tennis Guru
Two years ago Clay Thompson lost to my friend who plays on a 5.0 team. That 5.0 team didn't make it out of the pool at nationals.
J
J011yroger
Talk Tennis Guru
Bukowski
Professional
That is the anecdotal example I specifically just mentioned of out of shape and out of practice pro
J011yroger
Talk Tennis Guru
Bukowski
Professional
He played 3 futures that were driving distance from his house and the previous year lost 4,4 to a guy ranked 1881. I can see you arent to be convinced. Im assuming your in So Cal. So sure as hell there are some way above average phenomenal rec players and teaching pros skewing the 5.0 leagues.
Bukowski
Professional
There are some futures going on right now in the USA with great college and former college kids losing in the qualifying and main draw 1st round.
J011yroger
Talk Tennis Guru
I'm in NY. I'm not saying they are all world beaters, just that there are some very good players in rec tennis leagues, there are plenty of average guys and have beens too.
J
J011yroger
Talk Tennis Guru
I personally know 6 of them in F14. One was on my team. Currently a computer rated 5.0. Won a round in qualies too.
J
Bukowski
Professional
Im willing to concede that there are no real teams higher than 5.0? Is it possible that 5.0 is the default rating for players of higher caliber?
One thing to remember is that 1 Atp point places you at number 3000 in the world and not at n.1000. Things have toughen up in the past few years. To get to top 1000 you really need to be a 6.0. Also look at Andy of tw and Ton Lars, a poster here, they both were/are strong 5.5 who would bagel and breadstick most if not all on here, yet they couldn't make that 1 point.
J011yroger
Talk Tennis Guru
Rankings are a combination of how good you are and then also how long you can afford to stay out there playing tournaments.
TonLars was good enough to scrape up a handful points as he had beaten various players with points in money tournaments and stuff, but unfortunately only played one or two futures a year so he had to settle for local tournaments and dominating the Minnesota 5.0 leagues.
J
J011yroger
Talk Tennis Guru
Bukowski
Professional
Lol why speak like that? Im not the one trying to equate clay thompson to a 5.0 Yes i have mainly practiced with teams but played a handful of matches with 5.0 teams in multiple states over the past 2ish years, but that doest mean i understand the rating system at all.If anything i remember the guys buying me beer and signing me up and the rating was self analyzed or whatever the term. I played d1 tennis and was a 5 star recruit ages ago and and do not play tennis regularly anymore. Stupid liberal arts degrees and poor paying shift work.
Bukowski
Professional
I believe I'm being straw manned.
J011yroger
Talk Tennis Guru
J011yroger
Talk Tennis Guru
You just said you were what you were arguing didn't exist. Then said you didn't understand the rating system at all.
J
J011yroger
Talk Tennis Guru
He started saying this, and ended saying he was a 5 star recruit which is literally a futures level player and played 5.0.
That's the summary.
J
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