In praise of Kevlar/ZX hybrid!!!
- Thread starter marsh
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jmacdaununder2
Legend
If nothing else, kevlar strings must be exceptionally good for blocking bullet serves?
Voytek Bunia
Rookie
Can someone link me to the the kevlar and zyex strings to order for this setup. I'm lost with all these replies lol
TypeRx
Semi-Pro
You can get 1/2 sets of Ashaway Kev 17g from Tennis Warehouse for <$5. https://www.tennis-warehouse.com/Ashaway_Kevlar_17_1_2_Set/descpageAC-AK7H.html
You can buy a full set of Ashaway Monogut ZX Pro from Tennis Warehouse for $15.50. Get the black. https://www.tennis-warehouse.com/Ashaway_MonoGut_ZX_Pro_17_String/descpageACASH-AMGZX17.html
While the ZXP may seem a bit $$, remember you are only using half of it in a hybrid setup. Also you can actually reuse the ZXP over and over if you are so inclined and comfortable using 2 different pieces of strings as crosses.
v-verb
Hall of Fame
BTW I had a good session Saturday. Although I've not fully recovered from my shoulder injury (I would say 95% recovered) I hit a 95 mph serve and several others above 90mph. That's my 3rd fastest recorded serve.
The others were 98 mph 2 summers ago and 96 6 months ago. And it was hit with the Kev/ZX stringjob at 35lbs/35lbs.
I have comapred my Zepp readings with my Ballcoach radar and it's within 1-2 mph which is close enough for me
So I take back about losing 5 mph on my serves due to the Kevlar. Oh yes, zero arm, wrist or elbow discomfort
The others were 98 mph 2 summers ago and 96 6 months ago. And it was hit with the Kev/ZX stringjob at 35lbs/35lbs.
I have comapred my Zepp readings with my Ballcoach radar and it's within 1-2 mph which is close enough for me
So I take back about losing 5 mph on my serves due to the Kevlar. Oh yes, zero arm, wrist or elbow discomfort
Voytek Bunia
Rookie
Thank you. I’m stringing a pro staff 90. 16x19. Is 65/45 a good starting point?
TypeRx
Semi-Pro
I find that it is the ZXP that makes returning hard serves great -- you can take a very short swing and the ZXP elasticity assists in returning with good pace -- you just have to redirect it right. I suppose the Kev helps maintain control.
TypeRx
Semi-Pro
Wow, you are a good man. Personal experience is important with this setup as it can defy "traditional thinking" otherwise.
Only thing I'd suggest is maybe to lower the tension further on the ZX crosses...I would be nervous that the first time he is stringing up ZX at that tension he may experience a string break. I would personally go 45-50 lbs and make sure to not use a starting clamp (good 'ol starting knot works for me), hand-tighten the knots, and don't worry if they aren't cinched up like you are used to. I just do a double half-hitch personally. The second half hitch is not particularly tight. And oh yeah, when tensioning take your time (if a dropweight) or perhaps further pre-tension (10%?) the string if you have that function. You will see very quickly when stringing how elastic this is.
One other tip on the Kevlar -- do NOT try and cut/trip with typical wire cutters like you might use for poly/syn gut/etc. Use a pair of sharp scissors and cut the ends at an angle. If you do this, you will find that stringing Kevlar is perhaps the easiest of any string.
Agree that you need to give the string bed at least 30 minutes of play to "break in". After that you are golden.
Thanks, played with Kevlar for a couple of years in College. Not going to string with a high differential. Just lower tension. Rather than stringing a high differential to squash the frame and achieve a lower string bed tension will just string the lower tension with a smaller differential. Same difference without compromising the frame.
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Hypergxtraspin
New User
Anyone hitting with kevlar mains/lux gut in crosses? Just curious if it would provide even better power and be even better on the arm than the monogut crosses
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Shroud
G.O.A.T.
the differential is the magic man. Its like trying eggs Benedict and skipping the hollandaise. Not worth the time IMHO and doomed to fail. Which is probably your goal anyhow....
Shroud
G.O.A.T.
Use to do vs gut in the crosses. Would never put gut in the crosses these days. Let us know if you like it.
Hypergxtraspin
New User
Was it more powerful or softer with VS gut in the crosses?
Strings that last a long time and easy on the arm..it’s worth a try. Have three children playing sports so if it’s a savings I’m open minded.
It will have to last 3 times as long as my current set up to justify buying the strings.
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graycrait
Legend
@USPTARF97 , Strings are on the way.
Thank you! At least this way I know it is the right strings and pre stretched the way you find the best results.
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graycrait
Legend
Talked to two D1 kids last night, one of whom plays with Ash Kev x Zyex the other Tour Bite. The guy who plays with TB is our local No. 1 who broke 3 string beds yesterday. The gal is our No. 3 and was going through a string bed of TB 16L every other day or sooner. She now gets at least a week and half out of Ash Kev x Zyex, maybe two.
Hypergxtraspin
New User
I used to use ash kev zyex, it's nice and all but is there nothing better than zyex to cross. Is that really the best, idk why I don't like the zyex monogut
graycrait
Legend
I think I have tried every cross that seems usable vs Ash Kev. I may have missed something but I wouldn't know what it might be. ZX is the best cross in my simple mind.
Voytek Bunia
Rookie
Wowza!
Strung my touchspeed pro today. 65/45.
Really fun to hit. Super accurate. Tons of spin.
Only downside is that it has no pop. No sweet spot wow shot like you get with gut/poly.
I have a really sensitive elbow and feel no discomfort after 2 hours of play.
I really like this setup despite its low power. Really confident in all my shots playing with Kevlar.
Maybe lower zx tension will make it more lively.
Strung my touchspeed pro today. 65/45.
Really fun to hit. Super accurate. Tons of spin.
Only downside is that it has no pop. No sweet spot wow shot like you get with gut/poly.
I have a really sensitive elbow and feel no discomfort after 2 hours of play.
I really like this setup despite its low power. Really confident in all my shots playing with Kevlar.
Maybe lower zx tension will make it more lively.
TypeRx
Semi-Pro
Lowering the tension on the ZX will definitely help -- I notice a reasonable power difference between 40 lbs, 45 lbs, and 50 lbs after pre-stretching. I also find that there in an increase in power after hitting hard for the first ~30 minutes....the Kev needs to "loosen" up. I especially appreciate the inherent power of ZX on hard first serve returns and when I am serving. Good stuff...
Just got my string in the mail from Graycrait who is a scholar and a gentleman. Took the manufacturers advise and strung it 15% less than I would Synthetic Gut. Strung it at 50/48. Zx is an interesting string and can tell right on the stringer it is a different animal. Stretched out quite a bit stringing even after pre-stretch by Graycrait.
The Kevlar stretched minimally on the stringer.
Felt I little stiff at first, then hit well with good control and spin. Only down side was a loss in feel on volleys, drop shots etc with the Kevlar mains which is expected going from Natural Gut mains to Kevlar. Will keep hitting to see how the tension maintenance and durability go.
Next time will string at 48/46.
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If you were to compare Kev/Zx to say Alu Power both at 50/48 there is no question which one is stiffer. Here is a test, string up two frames at 50/50 with each set up and go out on the court and bounce the racquet on a tennis ball picking it up off the court. Quite clear which one is stiffer.
The beauty of Kev/Zx may be that it plays better after a number of hours than full poly.
The beauty of Kev/Zx may be that it plays better after a number of hours than full poly.
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Personally I'd start with 60/40
After playing a couple of hours with the string, down would be the direction I would go with tension. 48/46 or 46/44. With a control set up like this dropping the tension would help with power and a little more forgiveness. Just my preference.
What is the actual string bed tension after stringing 60/40 or 70/40?
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travlerajm
Talk Tennis Guru
48/46 is a lot tighter than 60/40.
How much? Not sure I would want to go much looser than 48/46.
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3hrs of play. Control was very good with this set up. Felt like I could hit my spots but the ball didn’t have much on it in terms of pace. Spin was good, slice was wicked. Arm is tired, shoulder and elbow feel sore after getting off the court. Going to leave the Kevlar to the high differential guys. Zx full bed would be interesting.
I’m sure the explanation for this was that I need to string the Kevlar mains 15-20lbs tighter but not interested in doing that to my frames.
Played the last 30 min with Gut/poly against a 5.0 and everything was better and easier to access. Kevlar set up had me working super hard.
I’m sure the explanation for this was that I need to string the Kevlar mains 15-20lbs tighter but not interested in doing that to my frames.
Played the last 30 min with Gut/poly against a 5.0 and everything was better and easier to access. Kevlar set up had me working super hard.
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travlerajm
Talk Tennis Guru
The main reason your power level was lower is that the Kevlar/zx stringbed probably weighed about 12g, while a gut/poly job I suspect weighs about 16g. This would amount to a noticeably lowered swingweight difference of about 7 kg-cm^2, with a noticeable loss of plow through and pace if no mass was added to frame to compensate.
travlerajm
Talk Tennis Guru
The Kevlar is roughly 4x stiffer than the zx. If the frame shortens a small amount after you remove it from the stringer, the Kevlar mains will lose 4x as many pounds of tension as the zx crosses gain. Thus, 60/40 would have roughly equivalent stringbed stiffness to 44/44.
Thanks,that same frame with full poly 1.25 @ 52 and Gut/poly at 58/55 has serious power. Too much trouble if I have to start weighting RF97’s to compensate. The sheer weight of that would not only kill my shoulder but be difficult to swing in 3 set matches.
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Thanks, that’s cool that you can figure that out. 44/42 may be where I needed to be. Definitely some science behind this set up and the way you guys string it up.
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tennisbike
Professional
"Science" is simply a word that stands for systematic. Science is a method, nothing more. When you do not understand it, it might as well be magic or voodoo.
Once you strung the first one, then change one parameter to go in one direction. If you believe in high differential, then let that be your constant and change two parameter, main and cross tension. My gut feeling is 44/42 is too soft, but you should figure that out yourself. There is no substitute for doing your own journey.
Kevlar/ZX is definitely workable for some player. But you have to do the homework, prestretch, and figure out the right tension for your racket and your body. For many, it is too much trouble. I might be in this group too. For me, Kevlar/ZX is no longer my favorite setup at the moment. I play 30/30lb (on SM) gut/poly.
Once you strung the first one, then change one parameter to go in one direction. If you believe in high differential, then let that be your constant and change two parameter, main and cross tension. My gut feeling is 44/42 is too soft, but you should figure that out yourself. There is no substitute for doing your own journey.
Kevlar/ZX is definitely workable for some player. But you have to do the homework, prestretch, and figure out the right tension for your racket and your body. For many, it is too much trouble. I might be in this group too. For me, Kevlar/ZX is no longer my favorite setup at the moment. I play 30/30lb (on SM) gut/poly.
Thanks for the dissertation on science. Going to journey back to Gut/poly and keep playing high level tennis pain free. Took a couple rounds of Aleve. Shoulder just stopped hurting about 15min ago . Kevlar sucks just like it did 30 years ago.
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2nd Serve Ace
Hall of Fame
Hey thanks for giving it a go. I personally see myself controlling the baseline play with Kev-zx but then my mid court shots don't have enough put away power and these rabbit guys manage to turn the point in their favor.
So my takeaway is that no gear can substitute for good feel around the net!
Sent from my SM-T560NU using Tapatalk
Username_
Hall of Fame
What's your opinion on monogut zyex as a substitute for natural gut?
graycrait
Legend
If you can get past the sound a fullbed of Zyex makes I think for most of us fullbed Zyex is a good hit something akin to fullbed nat gut. With a fullbed of Zyex most folks would want to use a decent dampener. I had a former Russian junior female national champ try out a fullbed of Zyex in a 93" 14x18 old Prince Spectrum 90 - she liked it.
Voytek Bunia
Rookie
Kev/zx has its own place in a tennis bag. I like warming up with it and practicing new techniques. Nothing will replace gut/poly for match play. Night and day pace wise but Kevlar is fun and I can see it being useful to someone trying to develop their swing or someone who constantly sprays balls everywhere. I think more beginners and intermediate players should be trying kev/zx.
Using Gut/poly primarily, accustomed to playing a set up that is on the powerful side. Going to string my other frames with more of a powerful set up like a Multi. My swings remain the same and it’s actually easier on my arm than the Gut/poly set up. My swings with Kev/Zx were not the same in terms of racquet head speed. Was having to swing a ton with Kev/Zx since it is so low powered. That doesn’t make for good practice and that string is treacherous on the arm. Just strung my two back up racquets in my bag with Velocity at 52. Going to follow that with Multi feel. Easy on the arm and great for practice. Good for playing sets and using when conditions are difficult on Natural Gut.
Little side note, the RF97 plays much softer, better spin and power at 52/52 with TBH7 1.25.
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Shroud
G.O.A.T.
It was a bit softer. Its just that I would never do kevlar with a locked stringbed. Unless I was just going for zero spin. If I was a flat hitter, full kevlar would be paradise. Back then I believed the idea that to have touch one needs a bed that pockets....
Shroud
G.O.A.T.
Figures. Sad man sad. Have you learned nothing from this thread?
Sad for who and what? Learned to trust my better judgement. Knew it was a horrible idea to put this string in my racquet. My friend that is a 5.0 player and trained with me that day saw the racquet strung with Kevlar and said “I wouldn’t do that”. He is also a doctor.
Gave it a go at low tension and other than control and durability this set up is sub par to full poly, gut/poly, poly/gut, poly/syn gut, and poly/multi in all categories of playability, comfort, feel and power. For these reasons, we will never see Kevlar/Zx used at higher levels of tennis whether that be juniors, collegiate players or professional. Anyone using this at the recreational level is rolling the dice with your health.
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Taveren
Professional
IMO its the high tension differential that makes the kevlar/zyex work. From what I remember (Trav correct me if I am off) kevlar has a ton of initial tension loss (around 15 pounds) and to counter that you string high to anticipate the drop before it settles and when it settles It maintains that tension and with the Zyex as a cross, it softens the stringbed and provides a tough cross string that withstands the kevlar. You get a spin friendly string setup, great snap back, control, a stringbed that plays consistent and lasts significantly longer that a fullbed poly setup.
graycrait
Legend
@USPTARF97 , what kind of racket did you string it in? I simply string it at 65/55 regardless the racket. And I would not play for points with that stringbed unless that bed has at least an hour of play on it. 5'9" D1 gal who uses it tells me that is lasting her about a week, rather than a day with poly. Last week the no.1 mens player broke a string during practice (he broke 3 stringbeds that day experimenting with a poly/multi hybrid) and grabbed one of her PCG100LBs cut to 27" strung with AshKev x Zyex. Later he tells her that he would like to try that racket again when he has a few days between matches.
I agree with you that for today's game some kind of poly works better for most serious players. You have to cut it out in short order unless you are breaking it fast like some "kids" I see. There used to be a youngster from Brazil here who told me once he graduates he better get a good job to pay for tennis string as he said it rarely lasts him two hours. Then there is the guy I strung his racket with Hyper G 3 yrs ago and he is still using that racket with the same string and plays doubles 3 days a week with other seniors. I told him I would restring it for free but he asks why would he need to restring a racket when the strings aren't broke. I went into the poly lifespan warning but he just smiled and walked away with his neon green stringbed.
I still find Ash Kev x ZX hard to beat in a 19mm graphite Princes that I knock around with. The good thing is I have another cut down PCG100LB coming from a guy who had recently strung it with Gut/Poly so I will give it a go again before I deconstruct that racket as he has it weighted to 365grams. And I will probably restring the poly crosses once just to makes sure that the poly is fresh. I've tried a lot of Nat Gut fullbed and hybrid but I personally don't like messing around with it or caring for it. I think today I have 16 rackets strung with Ash Kev Zyex, 14 are 19mm Prince graphites. The other 26 or 27 rackets are strung with something else from the string box.
I only play for laughs so what racket or string I use from day to day may vary quite a bit. For instance some H.S. kid from nowhere USA about 30 miles from where I live got a hold of me through his grandmother and asked if I would hit with him. Certainly I said yes. In that case I might just take a racket strung with a multi because I think it will likely be a lot of dinking around as he is a beginner. For me and my skill set - such as it is - some racket choices and string setups work better for me with more consistent pace.
I agree with you that for today's game some kind of poly works better for most serious players. You have to cut it out in short order unless you are breaking it fast like some "kids" I see. There used to be a youngster from Brazil here who told me once he graduates he better get a good job to pay for tennis string as he said it rarely lasts him two hours. Then there is the guy I strung his racket with Hyper G 3 yrs ago and he is still using that racket with the same string and plays doubles 3 days a week with other seniors. I told him I would restring it for free but he asks why would he need to restring a racket when the strings aren't broke. I went into the poly lifespan warning but he just smiled and walked away with his neon green stringbed.
I still find Ash Kev x ZX hard to beat in a 19mm graphite Princes that I knock around with. The good thing is I have another cut down PCG100LB coming from a guy who had recently strung it with Gut/Poly so I will give it a go again before I deconstruct that racket as he has it weighted to 365grams. And I will probably restring the poly crosses once just to makes sure that the poly is fresh. I've tried a lot of Nat Gut fullbed and hybrid but I personally don't like messing around with it or caring for it. I think today I have 16 rackets strung with Ash Kev Zyex, 14 are 19mm Prince graphites. The other 26 or 27 rackets are strung with something else from the string box.
I only play for laughs so what racket or string I use from day to day may vary quite a bit. For instance some H.S. kid from nowhere USA about 30 miles from where I live got a hold of me through his grandmother and asked if I would hit with him. Certainly I said yes. In that case I might just take a racket strung with a multi because I think it will likely be a lot of dinking around as he is a beginner. For me and my skill set - such as it is - some racket choices and string setups work better for me with more consistent pace.
He strung it with a 2lb differential. The main point of making it work was a 10lbs differential.
It's like getting free eggs benedict and getting hollandaise sauce on the side, eating the eggs bennedict while tossing away the sauce and declare the plain egg as tasting bad as you thought it would.
If not willing to actually do the 10lbs differential then it was just a waste of time and set up to fail.
It's like getting free eggs benedict and getting hollandaise sauce on the side, eating the eggs bennedict while tossing away the sauce and declare the plain egg as tasting bad as you thought it would.
If not willing to actually do the 10lbs differential then it was just a waste of time and set up to fail.
If I had only I had strung the Kevlar 8-10lbs tighter it would be less stiff..no thanks.
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RF97’s. Play 5.0 tennis and have no reason to play with string that is so tough on the arm. Gut/poly and full poly last me 6-8hrs. Full poly at 52/52 has tremendously better playability than Kevlar/Zx and 10 times easier on the arm than Kev/Zx at 50/48. It’s also around $4 a frame. Can string two frames with full poly for the cost of one frame with Kevlar/Zx.
Graycrait, Multi is for players as well. Know several pros including a girl named Madison Keyes that plays with NXT crosses. You heard of a girl named Osaka? She is playing multi crosses. Not to mention Daniel Evans and Rublev.
Players use what produces the best tennis for them and conserves the arm.
You will not see any of these new gen players using Kevlar or anyone else for that matter.
Graycrait, Multi is for players as well. Know several pros including a girl named Madison Keyes that plays with NXT crosses. You heard of a girl named Osaka? She is playing multi crosses. Not to mention Daniel Evans and Rublev.
Players use what produces the best tennis for them and conserves the arm.
You will not see any of these new gen players using Kevlar or anyone else for that matter.
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I hit with a number of players from Miss State and Alabama and they don’t go through poly that quickly. Large number of them play 18x20 frames which further prevents them from breaking strings so quickly. Your declarative statements about strings based on a couple of players is not the case with the majority of players we see.
If you have players slapping at the ball breaking strings like that and then put Kevlar in their frames that is a huge risk for injury.
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