Is no showing after draw cheating?

[playfairplease]

someone objected to thread on topic cuz mentioned a kids last name and was not sensitive to the feelings of that 14 yr old player. Lots of discussion in other threads that include personal things about kids and their playing. This thread did not do that. Nobody seems reluct to talk about why some kid is not a great tennis player or won't be able to go pro or what her parents are doing wrong. Lot of discussin and names and criticism of kids and their parents-lots of names used. The pulled thread relied only on information that is public and on the USTA web site. Nothing personel that is not public was ever mentioned. Pulled thread mentioned only the last name of kid who has signed up but not played for at least 34 fournaments in the last year. Objection was that the behaivor was due to parents. The kid has probably noticed that he has not shown up to tournaments so it is not obvious why this post would come as a surprise. Should there be no discussoin of something hurful to at least 34 kids and to the entire ranking system. Could kid have a influential coach that got thread pulled. Influence/money was part of the complaint on the thread. A kid who does not show to 34 tournaments is not being sensitive to the other kids. Mentioned in the thread was how unfair and insensitive this kind of cheating is to all the other kids who show up but have no match and to those working on ranking who may get less favorable draws due to lower ranking compared to kid with points from no shows. The USTA Eastern-metro section does not seem to pp. Kid mention and maybe others sign up for tourneys every week intending to play only those that will help their ranking. They have the money to do that but save the money on transportation and hotel if they do not like draw. They no show/inj/defaut/em. Kid mentioned did that for 34 tourneys this year. This is not personal it is on the USTA Ranking Eastern/met b12 and 14. 34 kids got pts not earned-sometimes as many as 120. You can win 8 regional trounaments and not even have as many as given to one kid unfortunate enough tove been matched with this kid. Not only does it make the ratings a joke but but some famileis may have sacrificed to get to a Friday match for nothing. No names only issue-and the previous thread had no personal things mentioned at all. intersting that it got pulled when others here talk about very personal things about players and their parents which is pretty terrible since the child discussed has not done anything to other children and their families. In contrast, the discussion in the pulled thread was clearly about taking advantage of other kids, and other families and an institution that does nothing about it. Got to wonder! If this causes social discomfortableness and stops more people from cheating than it is worth while.

 

[BradBaughman]

someone objected to thread on topic cuz mentioned a kids last name and was not sensitive to the feelings of that 14 yr old player. Lots of discussion in other threads that include personal things about kids and their playing. This thread did not do that. Nobody seems reluct to talk about why some kid is not a great tennis player or won't be able to go pro or what her parents are doing wrong. Lot of discussin and names and criticism of kids and their parents-lots of names used. The pulled thread relied only on information that is public and on the USTA web site. Nothing personel that is not public was ever mentioned. Pulled thread mentioned only the last name of kid who has signed up but not played for at least 34 fournaments in the last year. Objection was that the behaivor was due to parents. The kid has probably noticed that he has not shown up to tournaments so it is not obvious why this post would come as a surprise. Should there be no discussoin of something hurful to at least 34 kids and to the entire ranking system. Could kid have a influential coach that got thread pulled. Influence/money was part of the complaint on the thread. A kid who does not show to 34 tournaments is not being sensitive to the other kids. Mentioned in the thread was how unfair and insensitive this kind of cheating is to all the other kids who show up but have no match and to those working on ranking who may get less favorable draws due to lower ranking compared to kid with points from no shows. The USTA Eastern-metro section does not seem to pp. Kid mention and maybe others sign up for tourneys every week intending to play only those that will help their ranking. They have the money to do that but save the money on transportation and hotel if they do not like draw. They no show/inj/defaut/em. Kid mentioned did that for 34 tourneys this year. This is not personal it is on the USTA Ranking Eastern/met b12 and 14. 34 kids got pts not earned-sometimes as many as 120. You can win 8 regional trounaments and not even have as many as given to one kid unfortunate enough tove been matched with this kid. Not only does it make the ratings a joke but but some famileis may have sacrificed to get to a Friday match for nothing. No names only issue-and the previous thread had no personal things mentioned at all. intersting that it got pulled when others here talk about very personal things about players and their parents which is pretty terrible since the child discussed has not done anything to other children and their families. In contrast, the discussion in the pulled thread was clearly about taking advantage of other kids, and other families and an institution that does nothing about it. Got to wonder! If this causes social discomfortableness and stops more people from cheating than it is worth while.

dont worry about metioning a kids name that is doing something wrong remeber this,, Evil continues when good men do nothing,, if this kid is doing this its good you point him out esspecially when you have the proof !! I get accused all the time on here with no proof only heresay ,,dont worry about it keep pointing the TRUTH out theres no problem with that!!

we showed up to a tourny once and the kid we were gonna play was in a 3rd set and we spaced on cheching in,, the kids match finished early then expected and his parents knew we were there(we said hi) and we were watching another match only to have them check in and watch us watching a match we were defalted (we should of checked in ) we drove there 25miles only to turn around it was a cheap move on there behalf!!! these people will do anything to get ranking point without doing anything!!

 

[playfairplease]

Sometimes more off court games than on. Isn't the idea to play. thanx for comments about discusssing problem here. Do you know how that other discussion got pulled. Especially odd since person who objected seems not to mind long discussions about other kids using their names and discussing their personal situations. Me thread did not do that. not at all. only discused what is aleady public. Wonder if it was the kid's coach or someone from home club. That person should adivise kid to stop cuz it is well known to most kid and parents/kids bet about if he will show. some get annoyed and few think its amusing and everyone knows when his name is enrolled now cuz most have gottne points that way. Would not want them laughing or annoyed so much if it was me doing it. I would rather be lower ranked than laughed at.

 

[Deleted member 6835]

just be honest... those types of people dont ever get anywhere in life

you can only bull**** the rankings for so long...

 

[MIGHTY MANFRED THE WONDER]

Eastern USTA most likely had it pulled. You can still reccommend same rule as SouthWest USTA currently has to the Eastern USTA. You have a voice, you are a member, they do work for you- They are all listed right up front and want to hear from the membership about proposed improvements. You can either put up a proposal or sit back.

 

[playfairplease]

Really? ya think USTA had it pulled. Outrage. What business do they hve doing that? We know someone who wrote a letter to USTA & outlined all the reasons why there should be signif pp for pulling after the draw. Don't think got a letter back but will have to ask her. Was a long time ago and think I would have heard. I think sent a proposal in on suggested ways to address it.

 

[Dunlopkid]

How did this kid withdraw from 34 tourneys without getting a suspension? Did he simply withdraw with injury every time or what? Wouldn't 34 "injuries" get suspicious? And if he no-showed, I thought you were allowed only 2 before you were suspended like 6 months.

 

[playfairplease]

Good Qs. He moved up from 12s a few months ago. Look at record in USTA rank for Eastern Metro under 12s inelgible cause now in 14s. last name D -won't say or it will be pulled from Brooklyn. with about 300-400 pts. More than 34 deft of some kind. I think. Did not q him but does it look to you like there has been suspension? USTA connected club or coach maybe. Donot no. How does it look to you?

 

[1kooltennisdude07950]

Yeah its cheating and stupid

 

[CAM178]

It's not just kids. There is a guy in GA who has been doing this for years. I've seen his name in at least 50 draws where he was Def (NS), Def (inj), or Def (ill). This is really poor, to me. He gets points sometimes b/c other guys don't show up, thusly he gets the win even though he's not even in that state. That's bogus. He always has a national ranking, and it's BS. This is how he gets false credentials, too ('I have been ranked #x in Nationals for 5 yrs straight').

 

[BradBaughman]

It's not just kids. There is a guy in GA who has been doing this for years. I've seen his name in at least 50 draws where he was Def (NS), Def (inj), or Def (ill). This is really poor, to me. He gets points sometimes b/c other guys don't show up, thusly he gets the win even though he's not even in that state. That's bogus. He always has a national ranking, and it's BS. This is how he gets false credentials, too ('I have been ranked #x in Nationals for 5 yrs straight').

its all about the parents and what they allow, there what you call trashy, unconcerned, unloving to allow this, bad parents allow there kids to act like this is low

 

[1kooltennisdude07950]

Its carefully planned. Pay for touneys for every week. Watch draw. Play only if paired with top ranked kids so you get bonus points. Pull out of others one or two days before the tourney so you save time travel and hotel. Big deal about the tourney fees in comparison to cost of travel and hotels and time. Get enough pts for sectionals and do the same in them to get to nats but stay in draw as long as possible in case you lucky to get someone else playing the same game who pulls first. Or better, work with friends so you all lucky if you get paired with each other.

 

[NebAce1]

It's not cheating. Sometimes you have to def. after the draw comes out, because the times that you're playing conflict with something else, or something of that sort.

But when you def. 36 tourneys its cheating.

 

[playfairplease]

Not necessarily cheating. Maybe he is sickly. Over 8 months of weekends. could be a bad case of the cold. Thats what a USTA official said. Do not laugh at the kid and his family because it really could be illness. Be thoughtful like the USTA Eastern/Met. Maybe the kids got a terrible case of Baddrawitis and badsportitis and selfishitits and weberichandcarelessaboutyoupox and a dreaded case of laughaboutcodeillan and needumthosepointsumps and qualifyfornationalitisanywayillian Hah hah hah. If you see him wish him better health but sightings are rarer than big foot. And by the by, do not call him by his name or they will pull this thread again so laugh to yourself quietly. Also laugh when you think of the USTA and their silly detailed code and details about foot faults and rules that "accidently" allow this loop hole that they profit big time from. I am sure they have not thought about this cause they would not like some kids to get an advantage by signing up for tourneys they do not intend to play. USTA is trying to make tennis popular with kids not rich so you know they never never never would look the other way about some loop hole that was a disadvantage to kids following rules and too poor to pay for 52 tournaments a year. Right? No.

 

[1kooltennisdude07950]

lol lol

 

[1kooltennisdude07950]

Just curious. Have any of you done that. Decided not go if draw not great or no bonies?

 

[MIGHTY MANFRED THE WONDER]

I don't want to push this, but members of the EASTERN district USTA should present to their Junior Tournament Board Members the EXACT language in SOUTHWEST USTA junior tournament rules-
The 2 point "death penalty" for withdrawing AFTER draws posted- NO EXCEPTIONS.

If you have a legitimate reason when you withdraw, then 2 points isn't going to kill you- let it go and know your penalty was for the "greater good"- It isn't going to hurt you, You just let Directors know in plenty of time to make other arangements- your conscience is clear- it isn't like you do it all the time- you WANT to play.

This will stop the problem dead in it's tracks...And if Eastern does NOT want to take up the change for a vote- You have the right to ask "Why not"?

 

[10isDad]

Without going into details such as naming names, etc. I contacted the Eastern USTA. They do have penalties in effect; they do suspend violators. Part of this whole issue is that even though players are suspended, the online Tennislink entry does not stop them from entering. Because of this, the player has to be withdrawn manually.

 

[playfairplease]

to 10isdad

They told you what? The USTA either just imposed penalty this month after allowing this for 2 or 3 years or they are not being honest. Without naming names, the kid no showed for a tournament as recently as 10/26 in 12s because he was also enrolled in another in 14s that he played on the same weekend. 19 wd(inj); 10/12 played; 10/05 played and got points for some other kid noshow; 9/28 played in 14s but no shoed for 12s and listed as wd(em). 9/21 is listed as def(pps). 8/30 listed as def(ns); 8/23 wd(em), 8/20 wd(inj); 8/13 played. enrolled in two for the weekend of 8/11 played in the 14s but was injured for the 12s. and on and on. At times he has a string of 8 no shows. Some listed as em are not. My kid was to play him and he no showed and it is listed as em. If finally the USTA is doing something, it is a little late. If scores are listed for tournaments for the next month or two, the penalty is a joke considering the egregous nature of this. Is Eastern doing anything to prohibit this stuff in the future?

 

[10isDad]

They told you what? The USTA either just imposed penalty this month after allowing this for 2 or 3 years or they are not being honest.

Then I would suggest you contact them. Try: bliss @ eastern dot usta dot com

As I said, I'm not going to say exactly what she wrote to me - that would be a betrayal of confidence. All I can tell you is she was very responsive, getting back to me within 20 minutes of my original e-mail.

I'm sure if you're polite and level-headed she will extend you the same courtesy.

 

[playfairplease]

10isdad, someone we no already contacted the USTA but I think it was r region Met and not section Eastern. A while ago. And USTA talked about not giving points to the kid who did show up but were not considering larger penalties for the no show. Ill find out if they heard back any more bud I did not think so. I know it was a long time ago and nothing happened then I don't think.

 

[10isDad]

From the Eastern USTA:

5. Suspension Points:
USTA Eastern Suspension Points will be assessed against players for violations in
two categories - defaults and Point Penalty System Action - as follows:
Defaults
► Default by a player from any round without 18 hrs notice - 1 point
► Not appearing for a scheduled match or failure to notify the tournament desk without 4 hours notice - 2 points
► Refusing to continue play in the middle of a match - 3 points
► Default due to late arrival for a match - 1 point
► Entering two tournaments in contravention of the current USTA Eastern rule covering concurrent tournament entries - 2 points

Suspension points will remain on a player’s record for one year from the date of the tournament when the suspension points were assessed.

If a player accumulates three Suspension Points in the Point Penalty System Action or five Suspension Points in the defaults category, he/she will be suspended from competing in USTA Eastern sanctioned events for a period of four weeks. The suspension is effective at the beginning of the next Eastern Designated Closed tournament that falls ten days or more after the date of the suspension letter. The player may not play in any USTA Eastern sanctioned events that fall within the four week suspension period.

 

[playfairplease]

As you can see, there is nothing in the rules to discourage exactly what this kid does-signs for 32 more tournaments than intends to play-choices on basis of favorable draw-so long as it is more than 18 hours before the match. USTA must love the extra enrollment fees. This kid has so many egregious things going that he covers it all. Does book two at a time so hes got a pp on occasion. But most of the reasons are listed as things like em or inj and at least one no show was listed as em. I think it is left up to each tournament director to make a decision about how to designate the no play and they do not necessarily take time to look at a kids record to make it-why should they''' so patterns are not detected and there is no rule against calling at 9pm Thursday to drop a 5pm Friday match. The other family has already made travel and hotel plans and are probably on the way. Tournament directors are also likely to record an em for a no show that says "I called and left a message". This is cheating. It is playing with the rankings and it affects all the kids. It is a lousy thing to do. Beyond poor sportsmanship. The USTA should step up to the plate here.

 

[CAM178]

The player I mentioned before (not by name) is about to do this again. There's a nat'l adult tourney starting soon, and I bet he doesn't show. Well, he might show, but he'll DNS or DNF when he draws someone good.

10 out of 20 matches in '07 alone, he either DNS or DNF. Now you tell me: how is that fair that he doesn't even show when guys are flying in from all over the country? That's just bush league.

 

[playfairplease]

Kid I am talking about didnt show for at least 32 tournaments this year.
10-26 Def(ns) other kid 6 points
10-19 wd (inj) other kid 10 points
9-28 wd (em) other kid 25
9-21 def(pps) other kid 35
9/07 ns other kid 10
8-30ns other kid 12
8/23 ns other kid 35
8-20 wd inj other kid 50 points
9-10 wd inj other kid 12 pts
8/03 def ad other kid 25 points
7-20 wo em other kid 15
7-17 def ns one round of a 1B
7-16 wd inj 25 points. this kid was paired with the cheater and got poitns for the no shows for 3 tourneys (7-16, 6-20. 5-26)
7-13 def ns other kid got 25 points
7-11 def ns one round
7-07 def ns same kid as on 7-17 but this time gets 25 points
7-06 def ns 12 points
7-02 def ns other kid had only one match to win tournament
6-20 wd ill one match
6-8 wd ill
5-26 def ad
5-25 wd inj
4/27 wd tae
3-23 wd em
2-16 ed ill
2-02 def ns
1/19 wd ill
12-26 def ns
12-26 def ns
12-14 wd em
11-24 def ns
11/22 def ns

on some of the dates he got points playing other USTA tourneys so he was signed up for more than one many times. Notice only one pps. some kidz got points from 3 tourneys and others got 2 and some were lota points. Someone feltz bad for the kid cauz parent was doing it. Really. who cares about this kidz feeligs? This is public information. Youz choose to gain advantage by using other children you deserve whatever public criticism you get. Solution is to stop it.

 

[1kooltennisdude07950]

That player has 15 no shows. If 2 penalty points are given for the no shows that player should have 30 penalty points for one year at least. Does it look like he was suspended ? That is the rules?

 

[Doc Hollidae]

Are these no shows/defaults/whatevers occuring because he is playing an age division up at times, so he defaults the other division?

The OP mentioned a few times that the player defaulted 12's and then played in the 14's that same weekend.

 

[CAM178]

The player I mentioned before (not by name) is about to do this again. There's a nat'l adult tourney starting soon, and I bet he doesn't show. Well, he might show, but he'll DNS or DNF when he draws someone good.

10 out of 20 matches in '07 alone, he either DNS or DNF. Now you tell me: how is that fair that he doesn't even show when guys are flying in from all over the country? That's just bush league.

Yep, he did it again. Ridiculous.

 

[playfairplease]

Look him up druzhinsky eastern metro brooklyn

The name is Dennis Druzhinsky. Eastern section metro region Brooklyn. He is scheduled to play the L! Chrisine O'Reilly Memorial in NJ in a few days. Too bad if someone does not want that information out here. (poor child just at the mercy of a cheating parent-dont thinksao) It is public. It is fair other kids know and can prepare for a no show. That is why the draws are public. It is all supposed to be fair and public. Now you tell me. Look at his record in the 12s and 14s. Done this for years and years. How is it that the USTA allows this and you can also see only on pp and NS Ns ns is clearly indicated all over the child's record. And this kid is listed on the endorsement lists. This is fair play? And the USTA has been notified about this by many peoople. Polite maybe but they do nothing. Only good can come from making covert cheating very public. It aint like they are clueless about their own behavior. they know exactly wht they are dong and exactly the impact it has on other families and on the draws and the do not give a rotten toot. If they do not want there name splattered on these sites they will stop the behavor. so avoid being druzhinkied and prepare ahead if youre scheduled to playhim.

 

[playfairplease]

Doc, it is both. For a few weekends he plays in one and no shows in the other. Mostly he no shows completely. figure he signs up for all tournays and piks the ones that will up his ranking and passes on the others. figure he calls sometimes but mostly fogets to get out in time and figure some directors figure that they lost the note saying he was withdrawing so they give him benfit of doubt and mark em. Look for yourself. Druzhinsky Eastern metro boys 14s now but 12s a few months ago.

 

[mrmo1115]

ive played this kid before...

i am now in the 14s

i was ranked top 10 in the eastern section in the 12s

and i crushed this kid 0 1 twice

he is a cheater but who really cares if he defaults? if he doesn't show the other kid should be happy he might have escaped a loss.... i dont see what the big point is... if he was so scared why didn't he default to me when i was scheudled to play him and i was the 1 seed?

 

[mrmo1115]

playfairplease... are you a player or a parent....

and if you could also identify yourself if you dont mind?

im hugh mo douglaston, ny

 

[mrmo1115]

he played my friend artemie this weekend at the christine o reily....


so how do you explain that ?

 

[mrmo1115]

also another thing i want to point out

if you no show you get suspension points...

only if you call ahead of time of about 1 day or more you dont get suspension points

 

[mrmo1115]

also playfairplease how do you know 7-16 6-20 and 5-26 is a cheater?

do you happen to know this kevin ponce?

 

[playfairplease]

U R missing the point. The kid waits for the draw. If a win will advance his rank (so if he is up against a hi ranked player so he may get bonus points) he will show up. He does not necessarily care if he losses because points are not subtracted for losses. But if the draw pitches him gainst low ranked players and a win will not up his rank he will not play. So like if he has 6 tournaments at 35 points, he will not show to a level 1B unless there is shot for bonus pts. Pays way early before he knows if he wil need another Level 1B to rise in rank. It is crappy because even if the other player gets points for the now show, the family may have made lots of sacrifices to get there for the match. Lots of kids still sign for tourmaments cauz they want to play altho the USTA seems to be working to stamp that out and make junior tennis all about points. Certainly some juniors have followed the USTA lead. Thanks USTA!

 

[10isDad]

Complaining about it here isn't going to change things. Contact your local USTA. If there are enough people complaining they'll do something about it.

Could be that this doesn't bother others as much, so they won't do anything. I know you've said you've contacted them before, but it needs to be not just one person...

 

[mrmo1115]

who are you ?!?!?!


and what do you have against him? and why him? do you live in the metro?

 

[EasternRocks]

Playfairplease - Why are you trying to flame Dennis?

I don't think anyone in this thread cares.
Besides, this thread is supposed to support the fact and people's opinion about "Is no showing after the draw cheating?" Were supposed to focus generally, not to flame someone. I've proved my point.

 

[easternplayer99]

playfairplease
if this kid is going to spend all this money for tournament fees than let him do it
and most of the tournaments he's playing are local so the travel isn't that difficult

 

[playfairplease]

Hes just one of the kidz doin this. The USTA should change the rules. thats the point. That the tournaments are local for is not really relevetn right. The point is that the system has a big flaw in it and the USTA is not willing to give up the entry fees to get rid of the flaw. The rating game and signing up and not showng is harmful for the rankings and for game, Occasionally not showing or calling 18 hours in advance is not harmful but systematically doing that to get a good rank is harmful and inconsiderate to the game and to opponent even if she gets the points. Have asked the USTA for change. The only thing they said is maybe the kidz who show should nto get pooints. Well thats a silly solution since there are many ways they can discourage this but they profit from it cauz if they discouraged it kidz would pay for only the number they plan to play so instead of paying for 40 and playing 12 theyd be paying for and playing 12.

 

[mrmo1115]

who are you ? 0-o and why not some one who isn't good and doesn't even maintain a good ranking... as far as im concerned he is defaulting to good and bad kids at the same time

 

[Hewitt Aussie]

No, how the hell is it cheating if it is not helping you win. Infact, it is cheating against yourself because you are making yourself lose.

 

[mrmo1115]

No, how the hell is it cheating if it is not helping you win. Infact, it is cheating against yourself because you are making yourself lose.

proving my point in a nutshell:neutral: