Gregory Diamond
Professional
Could you give me a link to any lesson of two handed forehand on youtube ? I can give you thousands links to lessons of one handed forehand.
Most people have disabled one hand !!!
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Gregory Diamond
Professional
I cant ignore your logic. It is just irresistible.
ByeByePoly
G.O.A.T.
maybe ... but they will be very sickly or dead.
Gregory Diamond
Professional
Players who can play two handed forehand will never play one handed backhand.
ByeByePoly
G.O.A.T.
You set a low bar, and I went lower.
btw ... it's impressive you can hit that 2hfh, but you should stop it because it looks like a diseased seal flipper.
Booger
Hall of Fame
I feel like there has to be some crackpot out there. I mean, a guy made the pro tour with a volleyball jump serve and a racquet with 2 handles.
ByeByePoly
G.O.A.T.
Cool looking bubble ... is that carpet?
S&V-not_dead_yet
Talk Tennis Guru
How can I do that when there's an elephant in the room? it's getting in the way of my shadow swings!
S&V-not_dead_yet
Talk Tennis Guru
@Gregory Diamond,
Some who use a 2HBH also use 2 hands for BH volleys: do you use 2 hands for your FH volleys?
Some who use a 2HBH also use 2 hands for BH volleys: do you use 2 hands for your FH volleys?
styksnstryngs
Professional
BRUH YOU IS JR SMITH OM HENNY
Gregory Diamond
Professional
No but I`ll try to change it. Thanks for good advice.
Kinda proves the rest of our points...doesn't it?
You may joke, but it is no joke. I visited my niece today. She works for Eggspectation making fresh drinks all day, orange juice. She makes orange juice from oranges using an electric cone spinaroonie thingy. I saw her wrist. It's wrapped in something to hold her wrist, she hurt her wrist. I used to have a Costco card. When you buy oranges from Costco, it comes in a ton. I made orange juice the same way, 2 pitchers at a time. But the difference is I alternate hands with every orange. In that way I divide the stress by ½ on each hand. That's what I told her. She asked me if I ever hurt my wrist. I said "Never", in all my 20+ years of playing tennis.
Why are geniuses mocked by fools? Yo'll should be watching the X-Men movies. The persecution you put on the superior men, is nothing compared to the persecution the superior men will put on you.
https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/index.php?threads/ambidextrous-sports.615160/
user92626
G.O.A.T.
The point raised by the OP is pretty stupid or at least moot.
So what exactly would non-deformity (from doing everything balanced) bring you? Longer life span? Winning any grand slams? Or only one handed players have won them, or played happily at the parks?
It's stupid to go for a goal without any kind of rewards.
So what exactly would non-deformity (from doing everything balanced) bring you? Longer life span? Winning any grand slams? Or only one handed players have won them, or played happily at the parks?
It's stupid to go for a goal without any kind of rewards.
S&V-not_dead_yet
Talk Tennis Guru
The other difference is that your physique is different than hers.
Comparing your experience with hers is not identical. You either have to compare her making the drink using one wrist vs her using both or you using one wrist vs you using both. It isn't valid to compare you using 2 wrists vs her using 1. Maybe she's more vulnerable to RSIs, independent of whether she alternates. Maybe she merely would have gotten the injury in twice the time.
People get tennis elbow all of the time. If you do not, it may not be because you use two racquets and hit 2 FHs: it could also be because you have better muscles and if you hit only one FH, you STILL wouldn't get TE.
Group A mocks group B because A doesn't understand B. That doesn't necessarily mean A are fools and B are geniuses. Fools mock fools; geniuses mock geniuses; and geniuses mock fools.
Given that you're an outlier in wanting to play with two racquets simultaneously, I thought you might have a different opinion than the rest of us on the idea that a 2HFH is superior to the standard 1HFH. I certainly can't see the OP's logic.
That doesn't make sense. If she alternates, then each wrist will under half the stress.
This actually makes more sense. Also maybe ½ the stress will not reach the injury point.
S&V-not_dead_yet
Talk Tennis Guru
But if that half stress amount is more than the tipping point, she'll still get a wrist injury. It will just take longer since she's alternating.
True also: I hadn't considered that the absolute amount of stress would be insufficient to cause the injury.
Gregory Diamond
Professional
It only proves why most people play one handed forehand. It is not because one handed forehand is the best but because it is popular.
Gregory Diamond
Professional
StringSnapper
Hall of Fame
looks like your hands are glued to the handle. nice footwork tho.
reminds me of travelerjam
reminds me of travelerjam
Gregory Diamond
Professional
Usually when I play for the first time with somebody in a tournament they dont know where is my backhand and where is forehand
And those who know dont know which side is the weakest.Yet, no pro plays the same way players played in the 60s. If popularity was the only reason for something to be emulated, there would be no change at all because whatever is currently in vogue should always stay popular.
The reality is popularity is based on results. There are reasons why the 2hbh and heavy topspin FH shots are in vogue now. As you yourself keep saying, there are 2 GS winners on the WTA who hit a 2hfh. Yet in a society where winners are always emulated it never caught on. We've had parents here who have said that they've used that as a learning tool in the beginning stages of their kids' development, but transitioned to a 1hfh later on. It's not like people haven't used it or never thought of it.
You want to keep convincing yourself that you've found the holy grail that no one else has thought about, that's cool. Can't fight delusion.
Gregory Diamond
Professional
Connors, Borg, Evert played two handed backand and 15 years epapsed until two handed backhand became popular. The greatest problem with two handed forehand is that almost all trainers have no knowledge about it or repeat what they read in not too wise books. You cant find professional lesson of two handed forehand on youtube. How can you expect people to play two handed forehand if they dont know how to do it ?
spaceman_spiff
Hall of Fame
Usually when I play for the first time with somebody in a tournament they dont know where is my backhand and where is forehand
I regularly play against a guy who hits 2 handed on both sides. The first time I played him, it took me a couple of games to figure out where to direct my serve, but then I realized one important thing: he basically has 2 backhands. That is, his 2HFH is like a 2HBH with his hands the wrong way around. So no matter which side I hit it to, he's pretty much hitting a backhand, and I never have to worry about him hitting a shot with as much power and spin as the other guys in my league put on their forehands.
You might think that you have no weakness, but to me, you have 2. Or at the very least, you have no weapon.
Gregory Diamond
Professional
I am not professional player so I have a lot of weaknesses. But I am vice-champion of my country in my age category though I have an injured right wrist and shortend reach on both sides. The only reason that can explain it is two handed forehand. Maybe two handed forehand is not as bad as you think.
Monica Seles played about 25 years ago. So your logic even here doesn't hold. What more straws will you desperately try to grasp at? First you mentioned people have never tried it, then you said it's because other things are more popular, now it's because not enough time has not elapsed. As for instruction, you trumpet the fact that 2 WTA champs did it. Looks like they picked it up fine without many videos. Did you teach them?
If your post was that folks who have never tried it should try a 2hfh to see if it suits them or not, it would be a great post. As I said, I have always been in favor of experimenting than just going with what everyone else is doing. However, your posts have veered off in a different direction where you feel like you're the smartest man in the room, pointing out some radical idea that no one has thought about. It is delusional on your part. Sorry. As S&V said you're just ignoring any evidence that is presented that is contrary to your beliefs and chugging along. No reasonable debate is possible with someone of that mindset.
spaceman_spiff
Hall of Fame
Maybe the one-handed forehand isn't as bad as you think.
There's a reason why people are told to target the backhand most of the time. It's because, even with those who hit two-handed backhands, a majority of players are better on the forehand side. What you're saying is that those same players who struggle with backhands but are ok with forehands should abandon the shot that they can do well and change it to be almost identical to a shot that they struggle with, because you have a very small number of examples where it works.
By your logic, I should be suggesting that everyone should serve left handed and hit ground strokes right handed, because there's a junior at my club who does that, and he's the best junior in the county in his age group. I also saw a video of a high-level college doubles match from the US where one of the guys did this, so that's all the evidence that I need.
Forget the fact that most people are right handed and will struggle to learn how to serve well with their left, and forget the fact that those who are left handed will struggle to hit ground strokes with their right. I will still say that everyone should serve left handed and hit all of their other shots right handed. And no matter how many examples you give me of successful players who don't do this, I will tell you that my two particular, unusual examples prove you wrong.
Gregory Diamond
Professional
I think we all agree that one handed forehand is chosen by people with deformed bodies or it causes serious deformation . They usually have a disabled second hand. The fact that Monica Seles, Marion Bartoli, Peng Shuai and Lucie Hradecka won grand slams proves that two handed forehand can be successfully used on the highest level. It is not popular because almost all trainers were taught one handed forehand and force their students to choose 1HF. There is no doubt that two handed forehand for sure is much better for people who are not strong enough. It means that it is better for most people.
D
Deleted member 754093
Guest
You realize that the brain itself is lateralized and not perfectly balanced, and that most mammals have a hand preference? You can go ahead and play two handed on both sides all you want, but don’t call people deformed if they don’t.
Gregory Diamond
Professional
It is true that players who have a disabled second hand even if they use two handed backhand usually try to hit the balls using one handed forehand on the backhand side when it is possible. That only deepens deformation. They just accept their disability. Two handed forehand is not symetric to two handed backhand. It is much better than 2HB. The ball is hit near your body. You have much better control. That is why you can hit the ball using all your body.
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Gregory Diamond
Professional
Probably you use one handed forehand and you dont accept the thought that your body is deformed and that you have a disabled second hand. This deformation is scientifically proved.
D
Deleted member 754093
Guest
Do you have evidence to support that claim? I've actually done ambidextrous training as a sort of case study. I didn't develop superpowers or achieve perfect bodily symmetry. Again, you are entitled to use whatever technique you think is best, but there is something fundamentally wrong with calling those who don't "deformed." If you are trying to convince others to adopt your technique, insulting them is far from effective.
Gregory Diamond
Professional
I dont try to insult anybody. I just say about obvious facts. If you dont use some of your muscles you degrade them. You just try to say that one handed forehand is much better and that it is used only because of future success. Then we would come to conclusion that tennis played only with one hand is a pathology. That you can be successful only if you deform your body and deepen disability.
spaceman_spiff
Hall of Fame
Why don't you serve with two hands?
Serving with one hand causes an imbalance in not just your arms but also your legs and stomach muscles. As a right-handed player, serving with only your right arm makes your right shoulder, left leg, and left side of your stomach stronger than your left shoulder, right leg, and right side of your stomach. It also leads to more flexibility in your left hip and side compared to your right. If you don't believe me, try doing a few left-handed practice serves and feel all of the muscles that are undeveloped. You don't even need to swing the racket. Just toss the ball with your right hand and set up for a left-handed swing, and you'll feel all the muscles along the right side of your body that are not as developed as those on your left.
By your logic, this means that you should be serving with a two-handed swing.
In your videos, I see no evidence that your forehand is better than your backhand. In fact, you get more power and spin on your backhand, because you step into it more and have a fuller swing. And in the matches that I've played against people who use two hands on both sides, I've seen very little difference between the their forehands and backhands. If anything, their backhands tend to be slightly better, because they can step into the ball a little better on the backhand side. And from the number of people I've played against who have very good two-handed backhands, I've seen no evidence that they are unable to use their entire body to hit the ball with good control.
BTW, you really need to learn the difference between the words imbalance, disability, and deformity if you're going to keep having these discussions.
Gregory Diamond
Professional
Maybe you missed my post where I wrote about my injured right wrist. For over 20 years I was forced to base my play on backhand side. I played two handed forehand but I just placed left hand over right hand. It was not good enough when I was forced to cope with fast balls. My new two handed forehand is only 3 years old and now it is my main weapon. It is much better inside the court. Backhand is better when I am behind the court or when I try to hit high balls.
Topspin Shot
Legend
What is a a vice champion?
Gregory Diamond
Professional
Gregory Diamond
Professional
I think you are probably wrong about both of those assertions. Do you have any data to support that almost all trainers force students to choose a 1HF? I've not talked about this topic with more than a handful of coaches I've run into over the years, but I can't recall one who said they would force a student to switch from a two handed stroke, especially if the stroke was working.
Also, just because a 2 handed stroke is better for weaker players that doesn't logically mean that a 2 handed stroke would also be better for stronger players. There are obviously two different sets of mechanics at work in those strokes. So your logical leap there is no good.
In fact, I would suggest that it's pretty clear that a one handed forehand stroke is clearly more capable than and two handed stroke because of the degree of freedom in the stroke that is lost by adding the second arm to it.
Now that won't be true for everyone, and in certain cases having the second arm might be advantageous, but in the vast majority of cases it's not.
So while I like that you are doing well with a 2 handed forehand and think it's pretty cool you are using it to win lots of matches, just because it works well for you doesn't mean it's better.
Also, I think many of us are still curious about your claims of proven deformity from using the one handed stroke. Where is the proof or evidence of these health claims. TIA
StringSnapper
Hall of Fame
I did see some one handed chicken wing forehands when u were on the runUsually when I play for the first time with somebody in a tournament they dont know where is my backhand and where is forehand
Btw i would assume ur dominance based on your serve
ByeByePoly
G.O.A.T.
False
Edit: this guy is right handed ... if he had jusy hit near his body he could have been pretty good.
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S&V-not_dead_yet
Talk Tennis Guru
Usually when I play for the first time with somebody in a tournament they dont know where is my backhand and where is forehand
It should be obvious once you serve [unless you can serve ambi also].
Gregory Diamond
Professional
Nadal`s backhand is not even average. Playing forehand he has straight arm in the moment when he hits the ball. It requires great strength. Dymitrov and Federer do the same. Most people would lose control if their arm was straight.False
Edit: this guy is right handed ... if he had jusy hit near his body he could have been pretty good.
Gregory Diamond
Professional
More degrees of freedom is the main reason that causes loss of control.
spaceman_spiff
Hall of Fame
The injury history is irrelevant. You say that your forehand is your weapon. Based on what I see in the videos that you've posted, I think your backhand is the better shot and your forehand is limited.
You can redirect the ball with your forehand if the ball is coming in with pace, but if it's not coming in with pace, then the best you can do is hit a neutral shot. With your backhand, you can redirect the ball when it comes in with pace or you can step in and hit an aggressive shot if your opponent hits short.
I personally think that you are overrating your forehand. If I were your opponent, I would be directing most of my shots to that side.
Gregory Diamond
Professional
I agree that in those videos my backhand was better. I also agree that in two handed forehand we are more a wall for the ball so the more pace in the ball the easier two handed forehand. When the ball is short 2HF is excellent to play great angles and you can hide the direction to the last moment. Remember that players using two handed forehand use one hand when the balls are not within the reach. When the ball is near their body they almost always choose two handed forehand though they could do it using one hand. Why ?
spaceman_spiff
Hall of Fame
For the same reason that people with two-handed backhands use two hands whenever they can: it's the swing that they've practiced the most, so they want to use it as much as possible.
Now for my question: why hasn't the two-handed forehand become more popular already? Fabrice Santoro and Monica Seles turned pro nearly 30 years ago. Marion Bartoli and Peng Shuai turned pro over 15 years ago. But, two-handed forehands are no more popular now than they were back in 2000.
However, in the meantime, tennis players and coaches around the world have embraced two-handed backhands, western and semi-western forehands, jumping backhands, squash-style slice forehands, between-the-legs shots, swinging volleys, and even sliding on hard courts. All of these things have become common now because they have proved to be effective for a large number of people (though I don't think between-the-legs shots are actually effective). But, two-handed forehands are still very uncommon.
Is it because the same coaches who have adopted all of these other new techniques are determined to stop people from doing this one particular thing? Or, is it because two-handed forehands simply aren't as natural or effective as one-handed forehands for most people?
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