Nadal is 23-3 in Grand Slam semi finals

[Deleted member 77403]

Yes, I think @Djokovic2011 's 2012 comparison is a good one though.

2012 certainly is second to 2009 no doubt, and is only true year of the big four, where it is was just exclusively about those four.

 

[clout]

Cursory overview: Djokovic played Nadal one more time in slams but that was 15 RG Rafa, and 2-3 of their slam meetings were fairly irrelevant for Djokovic (06-07) Pretty much ever single one of Fedal's slam meetings has been very relevant for both guys. Novak faced the absolute best of Rafa at RG and USO, but Federer did at AO, RG, and Wimby. Going deeper:

If we go slam by slam for their whole careers:
AO- Federer, not even close
RG-It's about equal, gun to my head I'd probably say Djokovic
Wimby-Again, not close, Federer
USO- duh

Overall, pretty damn close.

But of course Djokovic facing Rafa at say 06/07 RG or 07 Wimby isn't quite the same as Federer facing him given where the two were in their careers, so if we just go prime for prime I think Federer faced the tougher Nadal from 05-09 than Djokovic did from 11-15, and that's even if I substitute 08 RG Rafa for 15 RG Rafa because 08 Djokovic was a real contender and 15 Rafa isn't prime, although if I do that, I have to add 11 RG Rafa to Federer's ledger as well. Either way, RG is about the same. Difference is that 06-08 Wimby and 09 AO Rafa is better overall than 11 Wimby/USO, 12 AO, 13 USO and that's very clear in my mind. If you add in 2010 USO for Novak (although I don't think anyone says he was in his prime) it becomes a lot closer but I'd still give that first group of matches from Rafa the edge.

So final answer: Federer. For me, it comes down to 10/13 USO and 12 AO vs 07-08 Wimby and 09 AO and I take the 2nd group in that case. 06 and 11 WImby cancels out pretty nicely, RG is a draw, but then we have 11 USO vs 12/14/17 AO and that's pretty clear. Of course this is only slams, but I don't really give a crap about masters and if we look at WTF, that likely goes to Federer as well.

Cursory overview: Djokovic played Nadal one more time in slams but that was 15 RG Rafa, and 2-3 of their slam meetings were fairly irrelevant for Djokovic (06-07) Pretty much ever single one of Fedal's slam meetings has been very relevant for both guys. Novak faced the absolute best of Rafa at RG and USO, but Federer did at AO, RG, and Wimby. Going deeper:

If we go slam by slam for their whole careers:
AO- Federer, not even close
RG-It's about equal, gun to my head I'd probably say Djokovic
Wimby-Again, not close, Federer
USO- duh

Overall, pretty damn close.

But of course Djokovic facing Rafa at say 06/07 RG or 07 Wimby isn't quite the same as Federer facing him given where the two were in their careers, so if we just go prime for prime I think Federer faced the tougher Nadal from 05-09 than Djokovic did from 11-15, and that's even if I substitute 08 RG Rafa for 15 RG Rafa because 08 Djokovic was a real contender and 15 Rafa isn't prime, although if I do that, I have to add 11 RG Rafa to Federer's ledger as well. Either way, RG is about the same. Difference is that 06-08 Wimby and 09 AO Rafa is better overall than 11 Wimby/USO, 12 AO, 13 USO and that's very clear in my mind. If you add in 2010 USO for Novak (although I don't think anyone says he was in his prime) it becomes a lot closer but I'd still give that first group of matches from Rafa the edge.

So final answer: Federer. For me, it comes down to 10/13 USO and 12 AO vs 07-08 Wimby and 09 AO and I take the 2nd group in that case. 06 and 11 WImby cancels out pretty nicely, RG is a draw, but then we have 11 USO vs 12/14/17 AO and that's pretty clear. Of course this is only slams, but I don't really give a crap about masters and if we look at WTF, that likely goes to Federer as well.

Fair argument. I think both of them had to play Nadal who was playing at a high level, but I can see why you chose Federer, since Fed in his prime never exactly played a "bad" version of Rafa, since Rafa at least at clay locked up earlier in his career, whereas, 2015-16 nadal was terrible everywhere. On clay, I say its about even since both of them took several beatings on the dirt vs Rafa, but Nole definitely played him wayyyyyyyy better than Fed did (hence, Nole was much more of a proper "rival' to Rafa on clay than Fed was). On grass, Fed definitely played a better version of Nadal, especially in 2007/08. Also, Nadal and Nole's grass peaks never exactly co-existed tbh, unlike Fed and rafa, who played each other thrice between 2006-08. IMO Nole's grass peak was during 2014-15 (he played amazing in 2011 too, but the insane amount of momentum he gathered from the first six months of the year basically willed him to the title). On hard, I'll go with Nole. Nadal was unhuman in AO '09 where Fed played him, but a lot of the times where Rafa had to fight for a high-profiled HC tourney he had Djoko in his way, and not Fed; including the Olympics, US Open (3x), AO (2012), several other masters, WTF, etc. Additionally, by the time Rafa was a consistent threat and even occasional favourite depending on his form on a HC, it was around mid 2008-early 2014, where Nole was now his biggest rival. I see your arguments, but its still so even since surface-by-surface; they both had to deal with an amazing nadal on clay, while Fed had a better Rafa on grass and Nole had a tougher Rafa on hard.

 

[clout]

Fair argument. I think both of them had to play Nadal who was playing at a high level, but I can see why you chose Federer, since Fed in his prime never exactly played a "bad" version of Rafa, since Rafa at least at clay locked up earlier in his career, whereas, 2015-16 nadal was terrible everywhere. On clay, I say its about even since both of them took several beatings on the dirt vs Rafa, but Nole definitely played him wayyyyyyyy better than Fed did (hence, Nole was much more of a proper "rival' to Rafa on clay than Fed was). On grass, Fed definitely played a better version of Nadal, especially in 2007/08. Also, Nadal and Nole's grass peaks never exactly co-existed tbh, unlike Fed and rafa, who played each other thrice between 2006-08. IMO Nole's grass peak was during 2014-15 (he played amazing in 2011 too, but the insane amount of momentum he gathered from the first six months of the year basically willed him to the title). On hard, I'll go with Nole. Nadal was unhuman in AO '09 where Fed played him, but a lot of the times where Rafa had to fight for a high-profiled HC tourney he had Djoko in his way, and not Fed; including the Olympics, US Open (3x), AO (2012), several other masters, WTF, etc. Additionally, by the time Rafa was a consistent threat and even occasional favourite depending on his form on a HC, it was around mid 2008-early 2014, where Nole was now his biggest rival. I see your arguments, but its still so even since surface-by-surface; they both had to deal with an amazing nadal on clay, while Fed had a better Rafa on grass and Nole had a tougher Rafa on hard.

this question can be a totally different thread tbh.

 

[mike danny]

I would agree with this and his clay season that year was only #2 to Nadal. He lost three times to Nadal but took him to 3 sets twice, yet still hadn't beaten him on clay, while Federer had contended the last 4 Slam finals and won Madrid over Nadal. I would say that that Madrid win was an assist from Djokovic but beating Nadal on clay was seen as the ultimate test which is why Federer was the betting odds second favorite after Nadal in 2009. Nadal was a 9 to 25 odds favorite for the title, followed by Federer at a 5 to 1 and Djokovic at 8 to 1 odds. Still I agree that that Kohlshreiber loss was shocking especially because of his results there the previous two years at RG and his clay season that year.

You mean up until the beginning of RG. Because overall Fed had the best clay season in 2009.

 

[NoleFam]

You mean up until the beginning of RG. Because overall Fed had the best clay season in 2009.

The original comment was talking about leading up to RG.