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TennisFan3

Talk Tennis Guru

I always wonder why Nadal doesn't even attempt to hit the ball in a real match, as he does in the practice videos above.

These days, it's come to a point where he has an extremely tough taking the ball and hitting on the rise. Whether it's a passing shot on the run, changing direction to hit down the line or stepping in and hitting inside-out --it just doesn't work in pressure situations. Meaning most of the offensive elements in Nadal's game are blunted. This may be enough against lower ranked players, but it will mean that against the likes of Nole/Fed/Murray etc - the match won't be on Nadal's racquet. These guys get away with throwing short balls at Nadal, and win the point once the ball goes to Rafa's weaker backhand wing.

Perhaps Nadal should watch himself in 2008 (and before) and even UsOpen/late 2010/early 2011 - where he was hitting the ball flatter, with lower net clearance and more aggression. Last thing Nadal needs is to become like a late career Roddick, who can't hit an offensive forehand to save his life..
 

Clarky21

Banned
I always wonder why Nadal doesn't even attempt to hit the ball in a real match, as he does in the practice videos above.

These days, it's come to a point where he has an extremely tough taking the ball and hitting on the rise. Whether it's a passing shot on the run, changing direction to hit down the line or stepping in and hitting inside-out --it just doesn't work in pressure situations. Meaning most of the offensive elements in Nadal's game are blunted. This may be enough against lower ranked players, but it will mean that against the likes of Nole/Fed/Murray etc - the match won't be on Nadal's racquet. These guys get away with throwing short balls at Nadal, and win the point once the ball goes to Rafa's weaker backhand wing.

Perhaps Nadal should watch himself in 2008 (and before) and even UsOpen/late 2010/early 2011 - where he was hitting the ball flatter, with lower net clearance and more aggression. Last thing Nadal needs is to become like a late career Roddick, who can't hit an offensive forehand to save his life..



We seems to already be at that point,unfortunately. Just thinking about it deteriorating further than it is now is a terrifying prospect. I would hope he has the good sense to retire when it gets to that point.
 

cc0509

Talk Tennis Guru
Why is perspective only expected from Nadal fans? The Federer fans have gone completely cuckoo and they were already on the far side of loony with their Fed as a religious experience. Djokovic's fans have settled down from their king of the hill crowing of last year but they're still extremely smug while he's hanging on to #1. But for some reason Rafa's fans should refrain from saying anything positive about him and Clarky's incessant nonsensical hate is lauded? Ay yi yi. :roll:

Where did I say I was only talking about Nadal fans? I said:



Originally Posted by cc0509
Perspective is the key for any fan IMO
.

I also did not say fans should not say anything positive about his/her favorite player. I was only talking about the fans who oooh and ahhh every time his/her favorite player breathes. I really don't think you can be objective about this subject at all given your Rafa is always right and can never do any wrong and is perfect at all times stance. There are many Fed fans like that as well and I find it nauseating. JMO.

There is nothing wrong with being critical of your favorite player and it does not make you a lesser fan in any way. Sure Clarky may go overboard with her Nadal is going to lose every match stuff but she is being honest. It is her opinion that Nadal is not the player he once was and that is ok for her to have that opinion whether it is right or wrong.
 

cc0509

Talk Tennis Guru
Originally Posted by TennisFan3
Last thing Nadal needs is to become like a late career Roddick, who can't hit an offensive forehand to save his life..


We seems to already be at that point,unfortunately. Just thinking about it deteriorating further than it is now is a terrifying prospect. I would hope he has the good sense to retire when it gets to that point.



LOL at you two comparing Nadal to Roddick. You guys crack me up. :shock:
 

Clarky21

Banned
LOL at you two comparing Nadal to Roddick. You guys crack me up. :shock:


The thing is it's not as far off as you think. Nadal hit 2 fh winners throughout nearly 2 sets of tennis against Fed in IW. Tell me those aren't Roddick-esque numbers. They sure are to me.
 

cc0509

Talk Tennis Guru
The thing is it's not as far off as you think. Nadal hit 2 fh winners throughout nearly 2 sets of tennis against Fed in IW. Tell me those aren't Roddick-esque numbers. They sure are to me.

I think it was just a one off situation and Nadal had a particularly bad day. It happens. I would not worry too much (yet anyway :twisted:)
 

Clarky21

Banned
I think it was just a one off situation and Nadal had a particularly bad day. It happens. I would not worry too much (yet anyway :twisted:)


He also only hit 3 or 4 winners throughout 2 sets of tennis against Fed at the WTF last year. Believe me,it's not a one off and is happening more and more with him. It's quite sad really considering he could definitely hit more winners if he wanted to. He has got to be one of the most mentally weak players going these days.
 

vernonbc

Legend
Where did I say I was only talking about Nadal fans? I said: "Perspective is the key for any fan IMO"

Talk about taking your own quote out of context. Yes, you said 'any fan' but you had preceded that with some pretty harsh pejoratives against Nadal fans: " those crazy *******s who think Le Nadal can do no wrong ever and is perfect in every sense of the word on every single occasion." while saying that Clarky's "extreme cynicism" was just peachy.
I also did not say fans should not say anything positive about his/her favorite player. I was only talking about the fans who oooh and ahhh every time his/her favorite player breathes. I really don't think you can be objective about this subject at all given your Rafa is always right and can never do any wrong and is perfect at all times stance. There are many Fed fans like that as well and I find it nauseating. JMO.

And thank you very much but I can be quite objective about Rafa and how well he's playing (or not) but I refrain from posting anything negative about him on this board because lord knows he gets enough hate from all corners. Being positive and on occasion trying to refute some of the lies and crazy nonsense that is posted about him is not unreasonable but it's enough to get called a crazy lady around here. Only on TT.
There is nothing wrong with being critical of your favorite player and it does not make you a lesser fan in any way. Sure Clarky may go overboard with her Nadal is going to lose every match stuff but she is being honest. It is her opinion that Nadal is not the player he once was and that is ok for her to have that opinion whether it is right or wrong.
Clarky may go overboard???? :-D Rafa is one of the very best tennis players in the whole world and claiming he's a has-been doesn't make him honest, it makes him look stupid and his posts ridiculous. Of course he can have that opinion but most rational people can have the opinion that he's nuts and is just trolling.
 

dudeski

Hall of Fame
TF3 and Clarky21 are trying to outdo each other with who can paint the most depressing portrait of Nadal. It takes a special person to make 25 year old, world #2, 10 slam winner, career best 4 slam finals in the row and counting, look that horrible. A truly special kind of person.

Btw in 2007 Federer who was at the same age as Nadal is now lost early at both IW and Miami to Canas. Lost to whom?!? Exactly!
 
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Clarky21

Banned
Talk about taking your own quote out of context. Yes, you said 'any fan' but you had preceded that with some pretty harsh pejoratives against Nadal fans: " those crazy *******s who think Le Nadal can do no wrong ever and is perfect in every sense of the word on every single occasion." while saying that Clarky's "extreme cynicism" was just peachy.


And thank you very much but I can be quite objective about Rafa and how well he's playing (or not) but I refrain from posting anything negative about him on this board because lord knows he gets enough hate from all corners. Being positive and on occasion trying to refute some of the lies and crazy nonsense that is posted about him is not unreasonable but it's enough to get called a crazy lady around here. Only on TT.



Clarky may go overboard???? :-D Rafa is one of the very best tennis players in the whole world and claiming he's a has-been doesn't make him honest, it makes him look stupid and his posts ridiculous. Of course he can have that opinion but most rational people can have the opinion that he's nuts and is just trolling.


No you can't. You got angry with me because I said I didn't like a certain shade of green. You are incapable of telling it like it is about Nadal in any way. He can do no wrong in your eyes,and you practically worship the ground he walks on.

There is being positive and then there is being delusional. Unfortunately for you,you are mostly the latter.


For the last time,I am a woman. I will now refer to you as male since I can't be sure you are really female,and I am tired of this silly debate about my gender.

Also,I wonder what kind of excuse you will make for him when his ranking drops to 3 next week? How about when he goes slamless this year? Maybe those things will finally wake you up to how badly his tennis has fallen off a cliff.
 

dudeski

Hall of Fame
No you can't. You got angry with me because I said I didn't like a certain shade of green. You are incapable of telling it like it is about Nadal in any way. He can do no wrong in your eyes,and you practically worship the ground he walks on.

There is being positive and then there is being delusional. Unfortunately for you,you are mostly the latter.


For the last time,I am a woman. I will now refer to you as male since I can't be sure you are really female,and I am tired of this silly debate about my gender.

Also,I wonder what kind of excuse you will make for him when his ranking drops to 3 next week? How about when he goes slamless this year? Maybe those things will finally wake you up to how badly his tennis has fallen off a cliff.

I concur that Clarky21 is a woman. I was able to find her picture:

pms-pms-madcow-women-demotivational-poster-1284426611.jpg


It explains a lot. Doesn't it?
 

Crisstti

Legend
Video of Rafa all grumpy about the rain delay in the doubles match. What a pouty little boy! :-D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdqRa4hjUyg&list=UUfDICSTuuJ_8Euwhhs8ux8A&index=1&feature=plcp

That is nice :)

Why is perspective only expected from Nadal fans? The Federer fans have gone completely cuckoo and they were already on the far side of loony with their Fed as a religious experience. Djokovic's fans have settled down from their king of the hill crowing of last year but they're still extremely smug while he's hanging on to #1. But for some reason Rafa's fans should refrain from saying anything positive about him and Clarky's incessant nonsensical hate is lauded? Ay yi yi. :roll:

True. One hardly ever (if at all) sees that kind of posts about Fed fans.

There is nothing wrong with being critical of your favorite player and it does not make you a lesser fan in any way. Sure Clarky may go overboard with her Nadal is going to lose every match stuff but she is being honest. It is her opinion that Nadal is not the player he once was and that is ok for her to have that opinion whether it is right or wrong.

Is she really?. I actually agree with her that Rafa is not playing as well as he could (and he doesn't look good in that practice video), but I doubt she really means it when she predicts him to lose every single match...
 

cc0509

Talk Tennis Guru
Talk about taking your own quote out of context. Yes, you said 'any fan' but you had preceded that with some pretty harsh pejoratives against Nadal fans: " those crazy *******s who think Le Nadal can do no wrong ever and is perfect in every sense of the word on every single occasion." while saying that Clarky's "extreme cynicism" was just peachy.


And thank you very much but I can be quite objective about Rafa and how well he's playing (or not) but I refrain from posting anything negative about him on this board because lord knows he gets enough hate from all corners. Being positive and on occasion trying to refute some of the lies and crazy nonsense that is posted about him is not unreasonable but it's enough to get called a crazy lady around here. Only on TT.

Clarky may go overboard???? :-D Rafa is one of the very best tennis players in the whole world and claiming he's a has-been doesn't make him honest, it makes him look stupid and his posts ridiculous. Of course he can have that opinion but most rational people can have the opinion that he's nuts and is just trolling.

What I am saying is that many fans of ALL players including some Federer fans go too far in their star obsession. In this case I was talking about Nadal fans since we are in the Nadal news thread but what I said applies to some fans of all players.

I don't think Clarky is denying that Nadal is one of the best tennis players in the world, she is just stating that Nadal's performances in the past year or so have not been his best and what is wrong with that exactly? Even if you don't agree with her, she is entitled to her opinion. Saying Nadal is going to lose to everybody at every tournament may be a stretch but I don't think that means Clarky is not a Nadal fan. Clarky is a Nadal fan but one who thinks differently than you do. I know it is hard for you to understand that, but you are too close to the situation and cannot be objective IMO. Why can't you accept that there are all kinds of fans out there?
 
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cc0509

Talk Tennis Guru
That is nice :)



Is she really?. I actually agree with her that Rafa is not playing as well as he could (and he doesn't look good in that practice video), but I doubt she really means it when she predicts him to lose every single match...

Who knows if she is trolling or not but for some reason I don't think she is and she is quite serious about her opinions that Nadal will lose every single match as crazy as it sounds, lol. I could be wrong but that is my take.
 

cc0509

Talk Tennis Guru
I, for one, am hoping that Nadal kicks everyone's butt in Miami, especially that arrogant SOB ********...Vamos!!

You are just mad because I said Del Potro has no chance of winning a slam since he has been Roger's b-tch lately and has been unable to defeat the top 4. :)
 

Juan Ma Del Pony

Professional
You are just mad because I said Del Potro has no chance of winning a slam since he has been Roger's b-tch lately and has been unable to defeat the top 4. :)

Actually I've accepted that and said it myself in the "Del Potro Rise In The Rankings" thread, albeit in an un-Clarky manner.

I'm just getting sick of *******s orgasm-ing over the thought of ******** actually winning a Slam for the first time in 2 years or reaching No. 1 again (ha!). I want them (read: you) to get a reality check, and who better than my #2 fave Rafa to deliver it?

EDIT: And I really hate it when *******s come and post in the "Nadal News" or "Del Potro News" thread, spreading their ******** drool all over these threads that are specifically designed to discuss OTHER players....
 

MichaelNadal

Bionic Poster
I always wonder why Nadal doesn't even attempt to hit the ball in a real match, as he does in the practice videos above.

These days, it's come to a point where he has an extremely tough taking the ball and hitting on the rise. Whether it's a passing shot on the run, changing direction to hit down the line or stepping in and hitting inside-out --it just doesn't work in pressure situations. Meaning most of the offensive elements in Nadal's game are blunted. This may be enough against lower ranked players, but it will mean that against the likes of Nole/Fed/Murray etc - the match won't be on Nadal's racquet. These guys get away with throwing short balls at Nadal, and win the point once the ball goes to Rafa's weaker backhand wing.

Perhaps Nadal should watch himself in 2008 (and before) and even UsOpen/late 2010/early 2011 - where he was hitting the ball flatter, with lower net clearance and more aggression. Last thing Nadal needs is to become like a late career Roddick, who can't hit an offensive forehand to save his life..

Damn, his backhand looks way worse here than it did in the practice videos before IW, he needs to fix that o_O
 

cc0509

Talk Tennis Guru
Actually I've accepted that and said it myself in the "Del Potro Rise In The Rankings" thread, albeit in an un-Clarky manner.

I'm just getting sick of *******s orgasm-ing over the thought of ******** actually winning a Slam for the first time in 2 years or reaching No. 1 again (ha!). I want them (read: you) to get a reality check, and who better than my #2 fave Rafa to deliver it?

EDIT: And I really hate it when *******s come and post in the "Nadal News" or "Del Potro News" thread, spreading their ******** drool all over these threads that are specifically designed to discuss OTHER players....

I have never been in the Del Potro news thread ever and have no desire to go there. Re Nadal, I don't dislike him at all. Federer is my favorite it is true but honestly if you read my posts there are times when I have been critical of him when the situation warrants it. I don't come in here to start up or say I hate Nadal.

Why would you care if Fed fans are happy about Federer's latest accomplishments? You have to admit they are impressive for a 30 year old even if you hate Federer. (I know this is not the place to discuss Federer.)
 

vernonbc

Legend
I concur that Clarky21 is a woman. I was able to find her picture:

pms-pms-madcow-women-demotivational-poster-1284426611.jpg


It explains a lot. Doesn't it?

LOL. It does indeed. :-D

Juan Ma Del Pony said:
I'm just getting sick of *******s orgasm-ing over the thought of ******** actually winning a Slam for the first time in 2 years or reaching No. 1 again (ha!). I want them (read: you) to get a reality check, and who better than my #2 fave Rafa to deliver it?
Just a note, I don't like anyone being called a ****, not even Fed fans. However, I'm pretty sick of the deification of Federer too. Rafa already delivered a delicious smack down of Fed where it counted, at the last slam, and another one similar to the humiliation he delivered in Miami last year would be very tasty. ;)
And I really hate it when *******s come and post in the "Nadal News" or "Del Potro News" thread, spreading their ******** drool all over these threads that are specifically designed to discuss OTHER players....
Fed fans are welcome, as are Del Potro fans or anyone else, to our happy little Nadal thread but they can leave their nastiness and negativity (and Fed drool) at the door. This forum is a very hostile place a lot of the time so it's nice to have a little sanctuary here where we can actually celebrate Rafa's talent and achievements without being called ugly names. :)
 

cc0509

Talk Tennis Guru
LOL. It does indeed. :-D


Just a note, I don't like anyone being called a ****, not even Fed fans. However, I'm pretty sick of the deification of Federer too. Rafa already delivered a delicious smack down of Fed where it counted, at the last slam, and another one similar to the humiliation he delivered in Miami last year would be very tasty. ;)

Fed fans are welcome, as are Del Potro fans or anyone else, to our happy little Nadal thread but they can leave their nastiness and negativity (and Fed drool) at the door. This forum is a very hostile place a lot of the time so it's nice to have a little sanctuary here where we can actually celebrate Rafa's talent and achievements without being called ugly names. :)

You constantly complain about Fed fans and the haters and how they post nasty stuff about Nadal and then you go and post you hope Nadal gives Fed a smackdown in Miami similar to what he did last year there? Hello hypocrisy! :confused:
 

vernonbc

Legend
TF3 and Clarky21 are trying to outdo each other with who can paint the most depressing portrait of Nadal. It takes a special person to make 25 year old, world #2, 10 slam winner, career best 4 slam finals in the row and counting, look that horrible. A truly special needs kind of person.

Btw in 2007 Federer who was at the same age as Nadal is now lost early at both IW and Miami to Canas. Lost to whom?!? Exactly!

I missed this first time around dudeski, but you're so right. He's played three tournaments this year, made the semis in a warm up, the semis in a Masters, and the finals in a Slam which went five close sets. Virtually every other tennis player in the world wishes he was as bad as Rafa. :roll:

(By the way, I fixed the last sentence of your first paragraph for you. ;) )
 

vernonbc

Legend
You constantly complain about Fed fans and the haters and how they post nasty stuff about Nadal and then you go and post you hope Nadal gives Fed a smackdown in Miami similar to what he did last year there? Hello hypocrisy! :confused:

A little touchy about that whomping cc? :p Get back to me after I've called Federer a cheat, a doper, a loser or all those lovely hate words that Rafa is regularly called. Hoping Rafa will beat Fed, convincingly, doesn't exactly reach that level of vitriol.

Look, I don't want to fight with you. You're generally a pretty reasonable poster even though I think you're horribly misguided about a number of things (your Fed fandom, your defense of trolls) but let's call a truce, ok?


Totally veering off in another direction: Here's a really funny blog from a Rafa fan who was at the IW tournament last week about various comments she heard around the grounds. http://extremewesterngrip.blogspot.com/2012/03/tennis-fans-say-darndest-things.html
 
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cc0509

Talk Tennis Guru
A little touchy about that whomping cc? :p Get back to me after I've called Federer a cheat, a doper, a loser or all those lovely hate words that Rafa is regularly called. Hoping Rafa will beat Fed, convincingly, doesn't exactly reach that level of vitriol.

Look, I don't want to fight with you. You're generally a pretty reasonable poster even though I think you're horribly misguided about a number of things (your Fed fandom, your defense of trolls) but let's call a truce, ok?


Totally veering off in another direction: Here's a really funny blog from a Rafa fan who was at the IW tournament last week about various comments she heard around the grounds.

Come on, don't pretend you don't hate Federer. You have said he is boring, arrogant, overhyped, etc. etc. You are no different than the Rafa haters who post about their Rafa hate. Just admit it, you are no better than the Rafa haters with your anti-love for Fed.

No fighting, everybody is entitled to her own opinion.

Thanks for that link! Funny.
 

MichaelNadal

Bionic Poster
Wow, I did not know Rafa was playing doubles in Miami too, what a silly decision. This part of the year is LOADED for him and with Djokovic 8.0 he needs all the rest and focus he can get. He was pushing in the IW final as it is, and it won't get better by playing even more.
 

Crisstti

Legend
Who knows if she is trolling or not but for some reason I don't think she is and she is quite serious about her opinions that Nadal will lose every single match as crazy as it sounds, lol. I could be wrong but that is my take.

Oh, I don't think she is trolling (and I do think she's a Nadal fan), seems to be some kind of anti-jinx thing (though probably her pessimism isn't too far off from what she really feels).

You constantly complain about Fed fans and the haters and how they post nasty stuff about Nadal and then you go and post you hope Nadal gives Fed a smackdown in Miami similar to what he did last year there? Hello hypocrisy! :confused:

To wish Nadal wins is hardly saying nasty stuff.
 

Crisstti

Legend
BTW, I saw that interview someone posted a link to here a while ago, where he talks about the tax issue... and it's quite upsetting to watch :? He was clearly very upset (almost cried, from what I could see). :(
 

FlashFlare11

Hall of Fame
Wow, I did not know Rafa was playing doubles in Miami too, what a silly decision. This part of the year is LOADED for him and with Djokovic 8.0 he needs all the rest and focus he can get. He was pushing in the IW final as it is, and it won't get better by playing even more.

Whoa, neither did I. I think he's trying to get as many matches under his belt before the clay stretch. He needs that more than any other part of the year. I guess he's also trying to work on his net game.

And when did Djokovic go from 2.0 to 8.0? If anything, he's gone from 2.0 to 1.7. :)

(By the way, I always felt strange about posting here, but I'm always up for reasonable and kind discussions anywhere! :))
 

Clarky21

Banned
Whoa, neither did I. I think he's trying to get as many matches under his belt before the clay stretch. He needs that more than any other part of the year. I guess he's also trying to work on his net game.

And when did Djokovic go from 2.0 to 8.0? If anything, he's gone from 2.0 to 1.7. :)

(By the way, I always felt strange about posting here, but I'm always up for reasonable and kind discussions anywhere! :))


Why? You're one of the few Fed fans on here who hasn't totally gone off the deep end. At least not yet. :wink:

Does anyone remember the last time Nadal played doubles in Miami? The only reason I can think of for him to play doubles is that he knows his game is in the gutter,and he feels like he gets better practice in actual matches than just hitting with someone. Nadal always schedules badly so I am not surprised to see him overplaying again. It's his MO.
 

FlashFlare11

Hall of Fame
Why? You're one of the few Fed fans on here who hasn't totally gone off the deep end. At least not yet. :wink:

Does anyone remember the last time Nadal played doubles in Miami? The only reason I can think of for him to play doubles is that he knows his game is in the gutter,and he feels like he gets better practice in actual matches than just hitting with someone. Nadal always schedules badly so I am not surprised to see him overplaying again. It's his MO.

Well, thank you! :) I don't know what could potentially "push me off the deep end," since I don't hate Nadal, I just like Federer better.

For Nadal to beat Djokovic, he needs to play pretty aggressively. Aggressive play is key in doubles because passive play will never get it done there. I think it's smart for Nadal to practice his doubles a bit and become a more aggressive player in general. As of right now, outlasting Djokovic is kind of out of the question. Nadal cannot do it. But if he takes the match to Djokovic, he can win. And if he overplays now, he has two weeks before the start of Monte-Carlo. He'll take it easy on clay, knowing he can beat 99% of the field with little effort, saving it for Djokovic, should they meet in the final
 

vernonbc

Legend
Come on, don't pretend you don't hate Federer. You have said he is boring, arrogant, overhyped, etc. etc. You are no different than the Rafa haters who post about their Rafa hate. Just admit it, you are no better than the Rafa haters with your anti-love for Fed.
No, I don't hate Federer at all. I've said many times that he's an amazing tennis player and his accomplishments can't be denied. I don't hate much in life and what I do hate (bigotry, racism, small mindedness, ignorance) is much more worthy of my emotional investment than a tennis player. I do get very tired of the over the top worship of Federer and the corresponding put down of Rafa. Roger can be very arrogant, I find his game boring, and the hype about him does get ridiculous at times.

I'd be much more inclined to join in the praise of Federer if there wasn't so much hate directed towards Rafa and if his accomplishments would be acknowledged as easily as Fed's are. It seems like so many people think saying anything positive about Rafa somehow takes away from Roger which is, of course, pretty inane. Rafa is a legend too and history will accord him his just rewards as part of an extremely small fraternity of grand slam tennis players. It's just a shame he's not given respect and credit now and it's very irritating for Rafa fans.
 

vernonbc

Legend
Wow, I did not know Rafa was playing doubles in Miami too, what a silly decision. This part of the year is LOADED for him and with Djokovic 8.0 he needs all the rest and focus he can get. He was pushing in the IW final as it is, and it won't get better by playing even more.
I don't understand why people get upset with Rafa for playing doubles. He loves it, especially when he can play with his BFF Marc, and after all the mega intense matches he has, I think it's terrific when he can get a chance to play the game he loves under far less pressured conditions. It's not as if it's adding to his workload because he substitutes the doubles match for one of his crazy hard practices.

Rafa's looking ahead to the Olympics. Miami is the last place he can play doubles, where they have a day off between matches, and unfortunately Marc isn't high enough ranked to make the Spanish Olympic team so Rafa wants to try playing with Marcel to see if they have any chemistry together. It all seems relatively simple to me. *shrug*
 

sbengte

G.O.A.T.
You constantly complain about Fed fans and the haters and how they post nasty stuff about Nadal and then you go and post you hope Nadal gives Fed a smackdown in Miami similar to what he did last year there? Hello hypocrisy! :confused:

Give her a break. She is entitled to hoping Nadal hands a beat down to Fed again, what's wrong with saying that too on a Nadal news thread ? That's hardly nasty stuff or insult towards Federer, is it ?
 

sbengte

G.O.A.T.
No, I don't hate Federer at all. I've said many times that he's an amazing tennis player and his accomplishments can't be denied. I don't hate much in life and what I do hate (bigotry, racism, small mindedness, ignorance) is much more worthy of my emotional investment than a tennis player. I do get very tired of the over the top worship of Federer and the corresponding put down of Rafa. Roger can be very arrogant, I find his game boring, and the hype about him does get ridiculous at times.

I'd be much more inclined to join in the praise of Federer if there wasn't so much hate directed towards Rafa and if his accomplishments would be acknowledged as easily as Fed's are. It seems like so many people think saying anything positive about Rafa somehow takes away from Roger which is, of course, pretty inane. Rafa is a legend too and history will accord him his just rewards as part of an extremely small fraternity of grand slam tennis players. It's just a shame he's not given respect and credit now and it's very irritating for Rafa fans.

That's some interesting perspective right there. I can understand why a Fed fan would hate Rafa by default, because Rafa has taken away so much from Fed. There are those that say that they don't like Rafa because his game is boring or one dimensional. Fair enough, there are Rafa fans who say they find Fed's game boring and it is a matter of personal taste and it's all good so far.

Now to the other aspects outside of their games : Some people find Fed being arrogant as a reason for disliking him. Fed fan's defense is that he is just outspoken and honest while Rafa puts on a humble facade. Now to the more serious issues that are brought up by those disliking Rafa for his rule breaking, MTOs and on-court coaching some of which are blatant gamesmanship / cheating - I am just curious to know what the Rafa fans really think of that ? Do you see a valid point there and wish Rafa would not do these things ? Or do you think they are all harmless ?
 

Juan Ma Del Pony

Professional
I have been very critical of Rafa in the past for some of his blatant time-wasting and MTO's, and I was basically a ******** from 2005-2008. He needs to cut that crap out, so people can focus on what's great about him: he is the only guy since the beginning of ********'s reign to take it to the so-called GOAT consistently. Mad props to Rafa for that. Imagine the tennis landscape without Rafa: ********'s arrogance would be even worse and he'd probably have 3 CYGS's by now. Talk about "boring."

And I don't see what's so wrong with hoping that Rafa smacks ******** again, especially on a "Nadal News" thread. If we can't express such TENNIS-RELATED non-insulting wishes here, then where CAN we write it? In the "Roger Flight of the Eagle thread" or any of the other 2343257398709879 Fed-worshipping threads on this board??

Anyway Rafa's still my #2 fave even with the time-wasting and MTO's and other crap, and only because I happened to lay eyes on that dumb Pony of mine in 2009. Otherwise Rafa would be my #1 fave tennis player on the men's side to this day. I just wish he'd cut out the MTO's and the blatant coaching and time-wasting as it takes away from his TRUE legacy of being His GOATliness ********'s one and only nemesis.
 

vernonbc

Legend
Now to the other aspects outside of their games : Some people find Fed being arrogant as a reason for disliking him. Fed fan's defense is that he is just outspoken and honest while Rafa puts on a humble facade. Now to the more serious issues that are brought up by those disliking Rafa for his rule breaking, MTOs and on-court coaching some of which are blatant gamesmanship / cheating - I am just curious to know what the Rafa fans really think of that ? Do you see a valid point there and wish Rafa would not do these things ? Or do you think they are all harmless ?

For starters, Rafa's humility isn't a facade. It's who he is. His parents brought him up to have respect for everyone and especially his elders. Uncle Toni did too even though he probably went too far in making sure he didn't think he was anything special because he played tennis and that everyone was better than him and thus he had to work harder than anyone else. Rafa fans who have read interviews with him and articles about him and even his book know that he has been this way since he was a child. It's unusual for a professional athlete, especially such an accomplished one, to have that attitude but there you have it. It's true, it's real, and it's one of the many reasons so many people are fans of him. He is a genuinely good person.

As for the supposed gamesmanship/cheating, it's my opinion that way way way too much is made out of it all. I think it's sad that it's come to nitpicking his habits in order to diminish all he has done and how well he has played. I think he is often treated unfairly and he is singled out for criticism when the same accusations could be made towards many others.

MTO's? Yes, he's taken some. So has virtually every other player (except for the sainted Roger). Last year's USO - does anyone mention the MTO that Djokovic took which iced Rafa after he won the third set? Last year's Wimbledon - does anyone mention the MTO that Del Potro took in the same match? What's the difference between the MTO that Rafa took in last year's AO against Murray and the one Roddick took this year? Why is Rafa vilified while the others skate?

On-court coaching? Again, I have seen the tv pan to every other player's coach in the stands while they have been yelling various things. I have even seen Annacone, the coach of the same sainted Roger, applauding and making head and hand motions as he's gotten wound up in the intensity of a match. Has Toni yelled out things he shouldn't have? Definitely. Have other coaches done the same thing? Definitely. But it's Rafa and his camp that get the constant criticism. I just wish fans and commentators would treat everyone fairly.

Rule breaking? I assume you are talking about the time he takes to serve. Yes, I wish he would do it more quickly, if only to reduce the target on his back. But is it gamesmanship? No, not in my opinion. He goes through the same routine, every time, all the time. Is he trying to fool the other player? No. Djokovic's ball bouncing doesn't bother me either but of the two, I would say that Novak's routine is more confusing to his opponent because they don't know if he's going to bounce it 10 times or 20 times, but regardless, they all seem to handle it pretty well.

Would you agree that the people who are making (and have made) the biggest stink about Rafa are Federer fans? Do you think if their record was more even that they would get so worked up about Rafa's habits? If Del Potro was regularly beating Federer would they get their stop watches out and get all up in arms about his lollygagging and the time he takes between serves?

Personally, I think Rafa has OCD and all his tics and habits are something he really doesn't have control over. I mean, an embarrassing thing like picking at his butt all the time. Don't you think he'd stop doing that if he could? But all these players are unique in their own way and have their own styles. How boring it would be if they were all robots doing the exact same thing. To answer your question, I don't think Rafa employs gamesmanship - he just is who he is, and I DEFINITELY don't think he's a cheater.
 

Crisstti

Legend
Thanks Crisstti! You've always been one of my absolute favorite Nadal fans! :)

Well, hey, right back at you ;)

I don't understand why people get upset with Rafa for playing doubles. He loves it, especially when he can play with his BFF Marc, and after all the mega intense matches he has, I think it's terrific when he can get a chance to play the game he loves under far less pressured conditions. It's not as if it's adding to his workload because he substitutes the doubles match for one of his crazy hard practices.

Rafa's looking ahead to the Olympics. Miami is the last place he can play doubles, where they have a day off between matches, and unfortunately Marc isn't high enough ranked to make the Spanish Olympic team so Rafa wants to try playing with Marcel to see if they have any chemistry together. It all seems relatively simple to me. *shrug*

Yep, simple indeed. He smiles a lot when playing doubles. Life is short so, good. Plus, as FlashFlare said, it probably helps his aggressive game.
 

Crisstti

Legend
Now to the other aspects outside of their games : Some people find Fed being arrogant as a reason for disliking him. Fed fan's defense is that he is just outspoken and honest while Rafa puts on a humble facade. Now to the more serious issues that are brought up by those disliking Rafa for his rule breaking, MTOs and on-court coaching some of which are blatant gamesmanship / cheating - I am just curious to know what the Rafa fans really think of that ? Do you see a valid point there and wish Rafa would not do these things ? Or do you think they are all harmless ?

I do think Fed is quite arrogant. Don't have much of a problem with it though, if at all. No big deal as far as I'm concerned (what bothers me more about him are the snide comments he makes about other players, though I still don't find it SO bad). I do like better Rafa's attitude however, no doubt. And he's always had the same attitude (if you look for example at interviews of his when he was 15 or 16), so I don't believe for a second that it's some kind of facade.

I've never found anything even suspicious about any of his MTOs.

The time before serving, I think it's harmless. And I think it's an OCD compulsion (and he hasn't even denied it is when asked), not gamesmanship (nor do I think it can be considered cheating). I should know, lol. Believe me, it's quite incredible the time one can take to do anything. All things considered, I'd say he's managed to serve pretty fast.
Mind you, I would like it if he could get rid of the compulsions, mainly because he's feel better...

The only thing I could understand someone having a problem with is on court coaching. Though I think it's blown way out of proportion, especially considering it's a very common practice.
 

CMM

Legend
25, Going on 50

By Pete Bodo

Not like anybody's counting or anything, but Rafael Nadal hasn't won an individual title in 11 tournaments.

Okay, I guess I'm counting.

Rafa's last triumph was at Roland Garros last June. Since then, his main rivals, Novak Djokovic and Roger Federer, have each collected a fistful of winner's checks. And for a while there even Andy Murray was in danger of developing tendinitis in his shoulders from hoisting crystal.

Nadal doesn't seem overly perturbed by his plight; in fact, he probably would find the use of the word "plight" excessive. He's become downright philosophical about his career and status, but that isn't usually a good sign. At times, he's sounded like he's 25 going on 50. An attractive and somewhat unusual combination of sentimental and realistic, Nadal made these remarks after he lost to his former arch-rival Federer, 6-3, 6-4, at Indian Wells a few days ago:

"The thing is not what I consider. The thing is what the people consider a good year at the end, because seems like 2011 was a bad year for me, for you, for most of you. (Smiling)

"I don't consider myself that good to consider the 2011 like a bad year, you know. I am doing a good year [in 2012], playing finals in Australia and semifinals here, for me, for myself, is a very good start of the year."

Does anyone detect a hint of defeatism and self-justification mixed in with the obvious, familiar humility (that virtue being Nadal's stock in trade, and you can hold that snark alert)?

These things seem to underscore the idea that among all the things Nadal probably did not expect out of his career—becoming the nemesis of the all-time Grand Slam champion being one of them—the events he endured in 2011 really knocked him for a loop. Could they have been a driving force behind Rafa's more recent complaints about the toll and grind of the tour, or contributed to Rafa's apparent embrace of that other poisonous sentiment to which he's recently been prone, disillusion?

It's legitimate to ask what on earth this once-happy child warrior is doing saying things like:

"The results last year, in my opinion, was great results for me. The feeling wasn't that great. You know, I get tired of the competition few times, and that's not the best feeling. So I gonna consider [it] a good year if I keep playing the way that I am playing. Even if I don't win something really important, I am happy. And the most important thing at this moment of my career—for sure the titles are important—but what is more important is the feeling."

Has it come to this?

It's hard to find the precise words for this, but the reality is that players can direct the tone and nature of their discourse with the press. And these days Nadal is getting pretty close to that territory so artfully occupied by Marat Safin, who had a way of turning almost all inquires into why he picked up a W or an L (especially an L) on a given day into something like a therapy session. We can appreciate Nadal for his obvious "humanity," but laying your heart bare with utter sincerity isn't necessarily the behavior most likely to make your rivals abandon their plotting and run for the hills.

Can it be that down deep Rafa feels so beleaguered that he's taken refuge in the fact that at least he enjoys what he's doing for a living? Rafa fans are lucky he didn't add those fateful words that would have made half of them keel over in a dead faint: "What is more important is the feeling. . . win or lose. . ."

We know how important it is to enjoy your work. We know that you can't be having a bad year if you you made the Australian Open final and the semis of a Masters 1000 in three tournaments. But that's not what we most want to hear from a player who, a little more than a year ago, looked like he might overtake Federer as the all-time Grand Slam singles champ. You can't criticize or second-guess Nadal for what he says he feels. But you can be puzzled or even disappointed by it.

The situation is hardly surprising considering the asymmetrical nature of Nadal's career. Nadal came along while Federer was still in his prime, and that challenge lifted the young Spanish challenger. That Djokovic, Nadal's true generational rival, took so long to mature into the force he is today lulled many of us into feeling that once Nadal displaced Federer at No. 1, he'd done the heavy lifting of his career. Whatever the future brought, Nadal would forever be the guy who brought down Federer, and the rest of it was just a matter of how many Grand Slam titles he would win, even as the occasional Djokovic, Murray, or del Potro would snatch the odd major for himself.

We can trace the Federer-Nadal rivalry back to 2005, when Federer avenged a 2004 loss to Nadal in Miami (their first-ever meeting). It took Nadal almost three-and-a-half often dramatic years to wrench the No. 1 ranking from Federer's grip, but he held that ranking for less time (just under three years) than it took him to run down Federer.

That leaves Nadal No. 7 on the ATP's "most weeks at No. 1" list, seven weeks shy of Bjorn Borg's 109 weeks atop, and one week ahead of Andre Agassi's cumulative total. Federer is No. 2 at that list, BTW, one measly week behind all-time leader Pete Sampras, who was No. 1 for 286 weeks.

Nadal could be forgiven for feeling like he'd been bushwhacked before he enjoyed his just rewards after that long hunt for Federer.

Nadal isn't done yet, but when you compare those numbers you can see how thoroughly we—and Nadal— were blindsided by Djokovic last year. You can also see where Nadal might find some motivation in the statistics, and the current state of things at the top. Djokovic is months away from his first anniversary as No. 1, and while he's still the man in charge, he's clearly slowed down.

Judging from the way Federer is playing and talking (has anyone waxed poetic on the felicitous nature of confidence more than Federer has these past months?), he's more than willing and able to knock Djokovic off his perch at the top. The more pressing question is whether Nadal, who has a right to demand more than a pound of flesh, is equally primed for the job.

Miami may be a critical test for Nadal. He could, of course, hang fire until he gets back on his beloved red clay in a few weeks. He almost certainly will win an event before the first anniversary of his last triumph, the French Open. But Nadal could cast a few monkeys off his back and make a more convincing case that he's back on track as a man for all seasons and surfaces with a win in Miami. In any event, it's about time Rafa became accustomed to living in a time of uncertainty, and making the most of it.

..............
 

reversef

Hall of Fame
Come on, don't pretend you don't hate Federer. You have said he is boring, arrogant, overhyped, etc. etc. You are no different than the Rafa haters who post about their Rafa hate. Just admit it, you are no better than the Rafa haters with your anti-love for Fed.

No fighting, everybody is entitled to her own opinion.

Thanks for that link! Funny.

Come on, cc0509, don't you see any difference? Tell me which Nadal fans spend so much time insulting Federer on every thread of this forum and on absolutely every aspect of himself. Personally, I don't see any. Some don't like him and sometimes say a shy "how arrogant he is" (me for example), some are more outspoken (Veroniquem for example), but tell me who bashes him 10 times a day on every thread. Tell me. Now, look at the other side, remove your Fedfan glasses, and look at what some of his fans do: they bash Nadal on a daily basis, on EVERYTHING he is or does and some of the things they say are so gross that I would be ashamed to repeat them. Don't you see any difference? If all the *******s/Rafahaters were as nice to deal with than Vernonbc, this forum would be a paradise for Nadal fans.
I don't know which aspect of Federer attracts this kind of fans (among others, of course), but it's a fact that he has very tough fans.
 

tusharlovesrafa

Hall of Fame
Well, hey, right back at you ;)



Yep, simple indeed. He smiles a lot when playing doubles. Life is short so, good. Plus, as FlashFlare said, it probably helps his aggressive game.
hey christina,How are you doing?? I haven't been here lately.So what's going up here and how's rafa doing?? When is he going to play his 1st match in Miami?
 

Crisstti

Legend
..............

That isn't a bad article, actually. Hadn't bothered to read it before since he's such a hater. Though I am quite sure he isn't exactly dissapointed of what he at least sees in Rafa's attitude. I think Rafa has the same thoughtful and "ambitionless" approach to these things that he's always had, whether that's good or bad.

hey christina,How are you doing?? I haven't been here lately.So what's going up here and how's rafa doing?? When is he going to play his 1st match in Miami?

I've not been doing very well, TBH...
Things here are the same as they've always been, I guess.

I wonder the same as you, actually, when does Rafa play?. Anyone knows? :confused:

How you've been doing?.
 

vernonbc

Legend
That isn't a bad article, actually. Hadn't bothered to read it before since he's such a hater. Though I am quite sure he isn't exactly dissapointed of what he at least sees in Rafa's attitude. I think Rafa has the same thoughtful and "ambitionless" approach to these things that he's always had, whether that's good or bad.
Bodo is an idiot. No two ways around it. He's one of those Fedophiles who has always been bitter about Rafa beating Roger and he may try and be fair about Rafa but his sourness always comes through. He just doesn't understand Rafa and Rafa's attitude and he's constantly taking shots at him. More liner for the birdcage.

I wonder the same as you, actually, when does Rafa play?. Anyone knows? :confused:
Rafa plays within an hour or so. He's next up on Stadium Court after Venus Williams and Petra Kvitiva finish their match which is 5-4 Williams at the moment in the first set. Unfortunately, we're all going to have to scoreboard it as there's no tv or streams until tomorrow. :(
 
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