Phantom Pro 100 and Burn 100 CV Demos – Loving Both?

TripleB

Hall of Fame
Recently got in a group of four demos looking for a solid feeling 11.2 ounce (or so) racquet that gives me the ability to hit heavy spin as well as the confidence (not necessarily big power, although that would be a plus) to hit the flat ball. The racquets I chose to demo were: Head Graphene Speed MP, Wilson Burn 100 Countervail, Dunlop Srixon Revo CV 3.0, and Prince Phantom Pro 100.

The two racquets that I didn’t want to be the stand outs (after seeing the specs of the demos) were the Wilson Burn and the Prince Phantom Pro….and of course those are the two that I’m playing really well with. Compared to the listed specs the Burn came in 6 grams over weight and 2 points less headlight than it was supposed to be. The Prince came in 5 grams under weight but balance was almost spot on. So after seeing that the specs were off on these two racquets I was hoping to like the other two much better...just worried about trying to order racquets to match the specs of the demo...seems like doing so might be easier if the demos were spot on (or close) with the average specs of the racquet.

In fact the Burn as demoed (with overgrip and rubberband) is 11.7 ounces and only 4 points headlight while the Phantom Pro 100 (with overgrip and rubberband) 11.45 ounces and 7 points headlight. The Burn should be 11.45 ounces and 5.5 pts headlight and the Phantom Pro should be 11.65 ounces and 7.5 points headlight (if they were the same as listed specs, plus og and rb).

I find it kind of strange that I’m loving both a 25mm 69 flex and a 18mm 54 flex racquet---seems like if I liked one the other one would be so different that I would’t like it. But I like both of them for different reasons.

I love the Burn because of the heavy spin, easy power, much better than average control, better touch than I would have thought with the 69 flex, and the fact that it feels very similar to the Prince CTS Approach 90---crisp feel, point and shoot ability (with some pop), and a lot of confidence on my second serves (absolutely wide open string pattern).

I love the Phantom Pro 100 because of the flexy feel (I’d say almost Rossignol F200 flexy), pin point accuracy (I mean within a foot of the line almost every time), tremendous touch, the ability to hit unbelievable slice (lowest and hardest slice I’ve hit, probably ever), and I can swing out without much fear of hitting long…did I mention the uncanny control?

I guess the only concerns I have with the Burn is that my left wrist hurt (I’m right handed, two handed backhand) a bit after hitting for about an hour or so. I thought it was the stiffness of the racquet at first, but I really think it’s the “backhand inserts” (don’t remember their real name) under the grip. I really didn’t pay attention to them when ordering the demo (doesn’t say anything about them in the description) or when I started playing. But after wondering what might be causing the left wrist pain in this right handed player I finally noticed the raised section about 2/3 the way up the grip…now that I look back at the pictures on the website it’s obvious that there is something under the grip. Does anyone know if those can be removed?

The other concern is that after I’ve seen the level of control with the Phantom Pro 100, even though the Control with this Wilson is much better than any other racquet I’ve tried in a long time, I know there is a racquet with more control out there. But even though the control and touch isn’t as good as the Phantom Pro 100, the extra power of the Burn may make up for it.

The obvious concern I have with the Phantom Pro 100 is the lack of power. It’s awesome to be able to swing out, know the ball is going to stay in, and have the confidence to go for the lines. I’m just not sure my 51 year young out of shape body wants to have to swing out on almost every shot…but then again this racquets lends itself to a lot more “crafty” shots than the Burn.

Anyway, just thought I’d share a few of my thought after hitting with them tonight and ask about the “backhand inserts.” I’ll update my thoughts as I get some more playing in with the racquets. Which may not be a lot more considering they are calling for somewhere between 4 inches and 20 inches (love meteorologist) in my area starting Saturday (12/8/18) night.

Thanks for reading!

TripleB
 
Backhand inserts are removable. Just unwind the grip and unclip them and you’re good to go. IIRC the racquets that had them came with 2 different sizes so you could adjust how pronounced they were or remove altogether.
 

PBODY99

Legend
@TripleB
X2 ergo is the name of the removal grip insert.
I have not played much with the Burn 99S I picked up but I found a bit more power with gut in my Phantoms.
Good luck.
 

A_Instead

Legend
Burn 100 cv is a nice surprise...i didn't care for the ultra 100 Cv...
I hope to try the beast 100 as the folks who like them...really give them praise..
 

Crocodile

G.O.A.T.
Phantom Pro 100 would be my pick over the Burn CV both from a feel and comfort point of view and definately from a balance point of view as well. Many burns I've hit with were very clunky due to abnormally high SW compared to advertised specs.
 

TripleB

Hall of Fame
Backhand inserts are removable. Just unwind the grip and unclip them and you’re good to go.
X2 ergo is the name of the removal grip insert.
I have not played much with the Burn 99S I picked up but I found a bit more power with gut in my Phantoms.
Good luck.

Had a chance to get out for about 2.5 hours this morning and my thoughts on the racquets haven't really changed a great deal. The thoughts that stand out to me after today's hitting are:

- Serves...I'd have to give the edge to the Burn in this area: it offered more easy power, more spin, more kick, fewer double faults, and even better control than the Phantom; the Phantom really isn't a bad serving racquet and I had some good success with it, the Burn just did everything a little bit better with less effort - my only 2 double faults were with the Phantom, I think because of the lack of pace on my kickers

- Returns...an easy win for the Burn: the easier power gave me a lot more options on my return...I'm not a big swinger on my returns so I need some power from the racquet and this racquet offered me that much easier than the Phantom - if I blocked the serve back it still had pace, if I sliced it back it had some pace, and with the confidence I had in the spin and control with the Burn I found myself actually swinging out more on returns with the Burn (and hitting my spots actually) than any racquet I've tried in a long time; the Phantom, well, I hit some nice dropshots on second serve returns

- Volleys...I've have to give the edge to the Burn in this area: it offered easier put away power and a more solid feel; the Phantom definitely offered better touch at net as well as control, but I seemed to have to work a lot harder at the net than with the Burn.

- Touch shots...definitely the edge has to go to the Phantom here: the dropper is one of my favorite shots and this racquet is one of the best I've ever tried, it allows me to just barely drop the ball over the net from everywhere on the court...but it's also incredible at those sharp angle cross court shots, especially with slice--usually a lot of my sharp cross court angles are with topspin but the touch with the Phantom actually allowed me to pull off these shots with the slice as well; the touch with the Burn wasn't bad, in fact I'd say it's much better than average and I had no problem hitting dropshots with it, I just couldn't be 100% sure exactly where they were going to land (the feel was just a little vague compared to the Phantom).

- Feel...not even close, the Phantom is easier on my 51 year old body and the feel it offers reminds me so much of when was growing up playing with wooden racquets - the sound even reminded me of wooden racquets...sounds like no other racquet I've tried in 20 years; as far as the Burn, you can tell it's a pretty stiff racquet, but as the TW Playtesters said, the Countervail seems to help hide that stiffness a bit...outside the sweetspot (which is actually pretty large - I think the wide open string pattern helps) you can tell it's a stiffer racquet - not sure if the stiffness would have been more prevalent if the racquet would have come to me with listed specs (this one's 6g heavier and 2 points less headlight...so that probably helped mask the stiffness a bit)...not familiar with the Head Velocity synthetic string that came in the Burn but it looked a bit old and felt a bit stiff (of course probably not as stiff as my Solino/Gosen hybrid)

- Groundies...WOW, this is where it gets very tough!!! I can't believe I'm actually saying this, but the winner by a slight margin is the Burn: it offers easier depth, more topspin, and just as much control; the Phantom offers easier 'whipability', better feel/touch, a more consistent response of the racquet face (I knew I had to swing hard to get depth every time, but I also knew it was going to land in), and the best slice I've ever found. If I were a bit younger and in better shape I would probably prefer the Phantom on groundies but I just can't stay out there all day hitting like I used to...with these two factors (older/fatter) and knee surgery in the past I'm looking to end points quicker

After my playing today I'm left with several large questions:

Burn
- If the demo came in at listed specs (11.2oz listed, came in 11.45oz; 4HL listed, came in 2.5HL) how much would that change the: stability (lessen it), the 'whipability' (improve it), and the effect it has on any arm pain I might experience with my poly/syn set up (probably a better chance of arm problems)?

Phantom
- If the demos came in at listed specs (11.4oz listed, came in 11.20oz) how much would that change the: ease of getting depth (easier with the extra weight), the nice maneuverability (lessen it), and the lack of stability at net (make it a bit better)?

* I realize I could ask TW to modify the racquets to match the specs of the demos (Burn would be easier to create than the Phantom), but I ordered these racquets because the listed specs were what I was looking for in the racquet

And the last question would be how do these two compare to other racquets I've considered: Yonex VCore 98 and Prince Phantom Pro 100P? It's crazy, I'm at two extremes...stiffer racquets with easy putaway power like my Prince CTS Approach 90 and flexy racquets that make me work a bit more but offer superb touch.

Well, with somewhere between 3 and 20 inches of snow heading my way later today those may be my final thoughts.

I appreciate everyone chiming in and taking the time to read my thoughts!

TripleB
 
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Dartagnan64

G.O.A.T.
Still think if you lowered your tensions and gauges in the Phantom your opinion might change considerably.

I remember when I put my usual strings in my Phantom 100, how it felt like I couldn’t get any depth or pace. Dropped 6 lbs of tension and one string gauge and voila, whole new experience.

Played with a guy yesterday using a Pure Aero. Complained of arm pain (shock and surprise). Let him try my Phantom. Not only did he notice the comfort, his pace, depth and control were far better. I hit with his Babolat and my arm definitely felt it.

Strings can cover for a lot of racket flaws
 

2nd Serve Ace

Hall of Fame
Maybe try a Volkl frame? They are stiff for playability but still manage to be easy on the arm.

Sent from my SM-T560NU using Tapatalk
 

TripleB

Hall of Fame
Still think if you lowered your tensions and gauges in the Phantom your opinion might change considerably. I remember when I put my usual strings in my Phantom 100, how it felt like I couldn’t get any depth or pace. Dropped 6 lbs of tension and one string gauge and voila, whole new experience. Played with a guy yesterday using a Pure Aero. Complained of arm pain (shock and surprise). Let him try my Phantom. Not only did he notice the comfort, his pace, depth and control were far better. I hit with his Babolat and my arm definitely felt it. Strings can cover for a lot of racket flaws

You may be right...a full poly I haven't ever tried before and couldn't identify is in the demo: the texture of it reminds me of Solinco Tour Bite Rough but it was a light blue color.

I typically use Tour Bite 17g mains around 47 pounds and Gosen OG Sheep Micro Super 16L crosses at 50 pounds. I think even getting away from the full poly might help with the depth problem I was having. It would probably help if the racquet was 11.4 oz strung as the specs say (instead of 11.2).

The guy I typically play with uses a Pure Aero (one of the older ones as he dislikes the newer one)...he doesn't seem to have any arm problems, or problems beating me - of course he is less than half my age :rolleyes:

Thanks for the advice....hopefully the foot of snow coming tomorrow will be cleared out by Wednesday and I can get one more shot with these two racquets.

@TripleB
Try the O3 Beast 100; ported comfort with more power than the Phantom

Thanks for the advice...I've never really gelled with any of the O Port racquets....but maybe the Beast would be different.

TripleB
 

TripleB

Hall of Fame
I remember when I put my usual strings in my Phantom 100, how it felt like I couldn’t get any depth or pace. Dropped 6 lbs of tension and one string gauge and voila, whole new experience.

How did you end up stringing the Phantom Pro?

The demo was a full light blue shaped poly I couldn't identify.

My go to for many years has been Tour Bite 17 mains and Gosen OG Sheep Micro 16L around 47/50.

Thanks!

TripleB
 

TripleB

Hall of Fame
My thoughts are anyone playing at age 50 and above with a 69 RA racket is asking for trouble.
You want power with the Phantom then lower the tension and gauge. Power is easy to adjust with strings.

Great point!

I guess the question would be, how do I get more power out of the Phantom Pro 100 while getting the crisp feel I love about my Prince CTS Approach 90? And again, there would probably be a slight power boost if the demo were 11.4 oz as listed instead of 11.2 oz.

Likewise, how do I soften up the feel of the Burn (demo strung with Head Velocity) and go to my standard poly/syn hybrid? But I really played well with the demo...so maybe I need to venture away from my standard poly/syn set up. But all that string movement though....

Thanks for the input!!!

TripleB
 

hurworld

Hall of Fame
Great point!

I guess the question would be, how do I get more power out of the Phantom Pro 100 while getting the crisp feel I love about my Prince CTS Approach 90? And again, there would probably be a slight power boost if the demo were 11.4 oz as listed instead of 11.2 oz.

Likewise, how do I soften up the feel of the Burn (demo strung with Head Velocity) and go to my standard poly/syn hybrid? But I really played well with the demo...so maybe I need to venture away from my standard poly/syn set up. But all that string movement though....

Thanks for the input!!!

TripleB
First part is add weight to your PP100 (4g total at 9+3?)
Second part is go with something like your TBS Main / Velocity Cross and lower tension and/or gauge?
 

TripleB

Hall of Fame
When I ordered the demos I really thought the Head Graphene Speed MP was going to be my favorite...64 flex, wide open string pattern, 318 swingweight, 22mm beam, 11.55oz and 5 pts headlight (with overgrip/rubberband/headtape) - even though not a stellar review from T-W I thought it was going to be a fantastic combo of my Textreme Tour 100T (wide open string pattern, decent pop) and my Pure Strike (flexy feel, excellent control).

Maybe it was the string in it or the tension, but it turned out not to have the power I was expecting. It's a very dark grey non-shaped poly. The sticker says Head Lynx 16g at 51 pounds. That may be true...if so, I'm not sure where T-W found enough power in this poly to give it a 70 for power (or an 82 for comfort) in their review.

Anyway, I appreciate all the advice and help!!!

TripleB
 
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