Superman Wins 2016 Laureus Sportsman Of The Year Award!

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mattosgrant

Banned
Phoenix1983 said:
I largely agree with you on Messi, actually - I think he is overrated due to the recency bias (many people state he is the GOAT, when he's clearly not). Personally I rank him at 4th place, but you're right that he is probably borderline top 5. Certainly Pele and Maradona are above him, and the case can be made for several others such as Di Stefano, Puskas, Cruyff and Beckenbauer.

However, this is still clearly greater than Novak Djokovic, who ranks only 9th among male tennis players all-time, and is not yet in Tier 1.

For Bolt, I was referring to sprinting only, where is the clear GOAT.
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Isnt sprinting a segment of track and field. Similar to how rebound ace or slow hard courts is a segment of tennis. I don't see how Djokovic being the GOAT at the Australian Open or on slow hard courts is any different than Bolt being the sprinting GOAT.

I also rate Djokovic higher than 9th. All time rankings are subjective.
 
D

Deleted member 688153

Guest
Phoenix1983 said:
I largely agree with you on Messi, actually - I think he is overrated due to the recency bias (many people state he is the GOAT, when he's clearly not). Personally I rank him at 4th place, but you're right that he is probably borderline top 5. Certainly Pele and Maradona are above him, and the case can be made for several others such as Di Stefano, Puskas, Cruyff and Beckenbauer.

However, this is still clearly greater than Novak Djokovic, who ranks only 9th among male tennis players all-time, and is not yet in Tier 1.

For Bolt, I was referring to sprinting only, where is the clear GOAT.
Click to expand...
How do you yourself determine if someone is in Tier 1?
I think by most metrics I'd have him there, so I'm curious as to how you would determine it. :)
 
D

Deleted member 688153

Guest
kishnabe said:
Laureus Award....it turning into a tennis award.

Who is next...Murray..
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It's for individual sportspeople, and there aren't a whole lot of international, individual sports for which they'd be likely to give the award and which have a high enough profile internationally.
There's tennis, golf, motor sports (but they'd only ever give it to F1 in all likelihood), and track and field sports, although they group all those into "athletics".
Many of those sports are really, really competitive and dominance over multiple seasons is difficult, such as in golf and F1.

They're not about to give it out for snooker and darts, as too many people think that they're not "real" sports, and sports like squash simply don't have the following.

So that leaves tennis, where homogenization and the seeding system facilitates dominance in the modern era and thus it's likely that many decent Laureus candidates will emerge from tennis.

Same goes for team sports - the number of sports which have a high international following is quite low when you think about it.
Football, Rugby Union, cricket, and cycling/athletics/golf when done in team form.
That's pretty much it - everything else is either limited to one or two nations (NFL, NHL, NBL) or is international but with a very limited following (such as field hockey).
Even basketball (a supposedly international sport) struggles for any kind of public relevance outside of the USA.
 
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Phoenix1983

Phoenix1983

G.O.A.T.
mattosgrant said:
Isnt sprinting a segment of track and field. Similar to how rebound ace or slow hard courts is a segment of tennis. I don't see how Djokovic being the GOAT at the Australian Open or on slow hard courts is any different than Bolt being the sprinting GOAT.

I also rate Djokovic higher than 9th. All time rankings are subjective.
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No, because in tennis, the same players compete across all surfaces. It's one sport.

'Track and field' is actually several different sports, which are lumped together under one umbrella level. It makes no sense to say that Bolt and Bubka competed in the same sport.

Yes I know you rank Novak Djokovic higher than 9th - he can't be much higher up than that though, there are several who are surely greater than him.
 
Phoenix1983

Phoenix1983

G.O.A.T.
Firstservingman said:
How do you yourself determine if someone is in Tier 1?
I think by most metrics I'd have him there, so I'm curious as to how you would determine it. :)
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Borg is the lowest Tier 1 great of the Open Era, and he won 11 slams while playing in a 3-slam per year era. Novak Djokovic has to reach around 13 slams before I'd consider him Tier 1.
 
Djokovic2011

Djokovic2011

Bionic Poster
Phoenix1983 said:
Borg is the lowest Tier 1 great of the Open Era, and he won 11 slams while playing in a 3-slam per year era. Novak Djokovic has to reach around 13 slams before I'd consider him Tier 1.
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Novak Djokovic is one of the greatest players ever and there ain't nothing you can do about that Phoenix. I know that burns you inside boo boo. :cool:
 
Phoenix1983

Phoenix1983

G.O.A.T.
Djokovic2011 said:
Novak Djokovic is one of the greatest players ever and there ain't nothing you can do about that Phoenix. I know that burns you inside boo boo. :cool:
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Well obviously he is, I rank him in the all-time Top 10.

What more do you want?

Oh right, I know - to proclaim him as undisputed GOAT. Not gonna happen I'm afraid.
 
M

mattosgrant

Banned
Phoenix1983 said:
No, because in tennis, the same players compete across all surfaces. It's one sport.

'Track and field' is actually several different sports, which are lumped together under one umbrella level. It makes no sense to say that Bolt and Bubka competed in the same sport.

Yes I know you rank Novak Djokovic higher than 9th - he can't be much higher up than that though, there are several who are surely greater than him.
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I think my all time rankings right now would be:

1. Laver
2. Federer/Gonzales (go back and forth on them)
4. Sampras
5. Nadal
6. Djokovic
7. Tilden
8. Borg
9. Vines
10. Kramer

So I have him 6th, you have him 9th, who knows what the overall consensus would be, but with recency bias there is a good shot it would be higher than 9th (most people probably view Federer as the GOAT, and most probably view Nadal as 2nd best behind Federer for instance, both which IMHO are wrong).
 
dr325i

dr325i

G.O.A.T.
Phoenix1983 said:
Borg is the lowest Tier 1 great of the Open Era, and he won 11 slams while playing in a 3-slam per year era. Novak Djokovic has to reach around 13 slams before I'd consider him Tier 1.
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And without your consideration, Novak is going to continue to have sleepless nights...
 
5555

5555

Hall of Fame
Backspin1183 said:
Nope. Lex Luthor won it this year for the 3rd time in his career. You should know better as you are one of his fans.
Click to expand...

No, you're wrong. I'm a fan of Superman.

mqdefault.jpg
 
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