Raul_SJ
G.O.A.T.
Open Era. Men's game. 5 set majors.
Steffi does not count. Laver's 1962 CYGS against amateurs does not count. Budge does not count.
Mods, please pin this educational informative post.
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Tokyo Olympics Loss Has Not Diminished Our CYGS Excitement One Bit!
- Thread starter Raul_SJ
- Start date
Open Era. Men's game. 5 set majors.
Steffi does not count. Laver's 1962 CYGS against amateurs does not count. Budge does not count.
Mods, please pin this educational informative post.
Are you part if his / her "we"?
Please ask mods to rename the forum section accordingly
Agree. This new trend of putting OG at the same level with the slams is absurd. Different format (BO3, 64 players), no points and prize money given. On top of that, OG should've been played last year. It's called Tokyo 2020 and not 2021 for a reason. It wouldn't even count for the so called golden slam.
ttwreader
Hall of Fame
I posted in a thread talking about this year potential CYGS. If you want to talk about Steffi's achievement, open another thread!
Raul_SJ
G.O.A.T.
Djoker only decided to go to Tokyo at the last moment.
He was not sure he wanted to live in the bubble. Half of the Top 25 skipped. Kyrgious wanted fans in the stands.
That should tell everyone where the Olympics stand.
Raul_SJ
G.O.A.T.
The Olympics are held once every four years. 16 majors for every Olympics. Far less opportunities to win a medal. Lack of medals should not be held against any player. Majors are the big prize.
Look at some of these Finalists:
Rosset, Fish, Gonzalez, Haas, Arrese, Massu, Mecir...
These Olympic clowns proceeded to do nothing at majors. Combined total of a big fat zero.
mysql to geojson
Look at some of these Finalists:
Rosset, Fish, Gonzalez, Haas, Arrese, Massu, Mecir...
These Olympic clowns proceeded to do nothing at majors. Combined total of a big fat zero.
mysql to geojson
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Or more accurately they declined more then him and he became no1 by a mile at a later age. In 62 he was far from being no 1 and facing better players earlier wouldn't have magically made him the best,after all he didn't dominate amateur tour prior to 62, took him 5 years for 1st slam, and even lost 5 slam finals in previous 3 years.
Raul_SJ
G.O.A.T.
The bottom line is that Laver's 1962 CYGS was won against a weaker amateur field. It would be like Zverev winning a CYGS while Fed, Rafa, Djoker and Murray were banned.
In 63 Rosewall owned Laver 31-10 in full matches played. Safe to assume difference would have been greater in prior years, not to mention Gonzalez and Hoad were considered far better players too from 60 to 62.
And this is an actual quote from Laver himself after winning the Grand slam in 62:
I was swamped by back-slappers and when reporters asked me how it felt to be the best player in the world, I told them I wouldn't know because there were guys named Hoad, Rosewall, Sedgman, Gonzales, Trabert and Segura whom I hadn't beaten, because I hadn't played them. I also knew that making up the 128 players in the major amateur tournaments were fellows who were not really up to standard, young blokes with a tennis racquet who travelled the world entering tournaments and rarely lasting a round.
Raul_SJ
G.O.A.T.
In other words the pre Open Era amateur field was similar to the 2020 Olympic field, with #300 Nagal gracing Tokyo with his essence.
No, he wouldn't. As great as he was, we cannot assume that. In reality he won 6 Amateur Slams, 8 of 15 Pro Slams from 1963 to 1967 and 5 Open Era Slams.
Before 1964 he never really was the best player in the world despite his 1962 Amateur CYGS. Because when he turned pro in 1963, the season was still totally dominated by Rosewall who won all 3 Pro Slams. So we are very generous to Laver if we assume until 1963 he would have maybe won some 2-3 Open Slams.
In total Laver won 8 of 15 Pro Slams in 1963-1967 (the other 7 were won by Rosewall). So if we assume Laver missed 21 hypothetical "Open Slams" from 1963 to 1968 AO, it would have been 11 titles by extrapolation IF only the Pro tour mattered. But that was not the case, because someone like Emerson wasn’t a joke and could have beaten Laver occasionally. On top of that we have 1 or 2 typical early exits in a hypothetical field of 128 players (compared to only 8 in Pro Slams), and we could very well assume he wouldn’t have won more than 8 Slams during that years in Open play.
Then on top of that come his 5 actual Open Era Slams, so we arrive at 16 at the maximum. And as I explained, that is still generous.
Fiero425
Legend
Sure it would have been nice to win a medal but this is not the end of the world.
CYGS Open Era has been achieved only once by Laver. We are witnessing history in the making. Yes, it is still true.
Has any man even won the first three calendar year majors in the Open Era? Agassi did not do it.
OTTH, Borg won the FO (when 1st) and Wimbledon in '78 & 80, but only got to the final of the USO! Nadal might have had a chance in '10 winning 3 in a row, except AO 1st in the season and he had to retire in the 3rd set in QF to Murray due to injury!
Raul_SJ
G.O.A.T.
OTTH, Borg won the FO (when 1st) and Wimbledon in '78 & 80, but only got to the final of the USO! Nadal might have had a chance in '10 winning 3 in a row, except AO 1st in the season and he had to retire in the 3rd set in QF to Murray due to injury!
Of all the 3/4 Slam winners, Rafa is the only one to have won RG, Wimbledon and US in same year. 2010.
Looks like Rafa is the one that has come closest to CYGS in 2010. Would have won if not for AO injury.
THREE-QUARTER SLAMS
Male Open Era players who have won three Grand Slam events in a season:
1974 Jimmy Connors, United States (Australian, Wimbledon, U.S.)
1988 Mats Wilander, Sweden (Australian, French, U.S.)
2004 Roger Federer, Switzerland (Australian, Wimbledon, U.S.)
2006 Roger Federer, Switzerland (Australian, Wimbledon, U.S.)
2007 Roger Federer, Switzerland (Australian, Wimbledon, U.S.)
2010 Rafael Nadal, Spain (French, Wimbledon, U.S.)
2011 Novak Djokovic, Serbia (Australian Open, Wimbledon, US Open)
2015 Novak Djokovic, Serbia (Australian Open, Wimbledon, US Open)
https://www.usopen.org/en_US/search/index.html
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swordtennis
G.O.A.T.
Pumped for this US Open!
Back in NY since December 2016!
It is the US Open tho so prepared for the good the bad and the ugly!
Could get real ugly for Nole'.
Gonna be a hoot so please do not pollute!
Back in NY since December 2016!
It is the US Open tho so prepared for the good the bad and the ugly!
Could get real ugly for Nole'.
Gonna be a hoot so please do not pollute!
Raul_SJ
G.O.A.T.
Fed is done winning titles. Can't imagine crowd cheering for a Fed upset against Djoker; they want to see history... Love Djoker's chances against Rafa. At worst, crowd might be 70/30 for Rafa... Med and Zed are bigger threats than Rafa.
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D
Deleted member 762343
Guest
Yeah, "mute point". Genius post.
Mainad
Bionic Poster
so you are telling that the Earth Mightiest Player failed to win a Mickey Mouse tournament?
wow
My shoutCYGARS all round if he gets the CYGS?
canta_Brian
Hall of Fame
Or about the current state of the tour as a whole. Or about Nadal’s diminishing dominance on clay. Or the effective use of medical timeouts to break the rhythm of opponents. Volumes are spoken on many a subject.
canta_Brian
Hall of Fame
That is certainly a list of apparently fairly average players. All of whom have managed a feat the Djokovic couldn’t. It’s not even as if there was a strong field at this olympics with, as you say, top players not attending. It appears that average players of former eras are better than your goat contender. No wonder you want to pretend the olympics never happened.The Olympics are held once every four years. 16 majors for every Olympics. Far less opportunities to win a medal. Lack of medals should not be held against any player. Majors are the big prize.
Look at some of these Finalists:
Rosset, Fish, Gonzalez, Haas, Arrese, Massu, Mecir...
These Olympic clowns proceeded to do nothing at majors. Combined total of a big fat zero.
mysql to geojson
Raul_SJ
G.O.A.T.
SF 3-2 up a break. 3 games away from Gold. (We know Khachanov would have no chance in Final).
There is no disgrace here. It is three sets, not five. And Zed played well at the end.
are you saying that Nole should get like a quarter of the medal?
shall we give then Fed half of the Wim'19 trophy? he was much close then Nole
canta_Brian
Hall of Fame
20.5 20 19.5?are you saying that Nole should get like a quarter of the medal?
shall we give then Fed half of the Wim'19 trophy? he was much close then Nole
20.5 vs 20 vs 19.5
canta_Brian
Hall of Fame
I’m sure you are right. If Djok had not lost 10 of the last 11 games against Zverev, he would definitely have beaten Katchanov, the guy who beat the guy who in turn beat Djokovic in the bronze medal match.
I mean, how could anyone doubt it?
pfff. Time to delete your account you utter clown, you have nothing left to offer here.
Raul_SJ
G.O.A.T.
Yawn.
canta_Brian
Hall of Fame
R. Schweikart
Professional
BeatlesFan
Bionic Poster
Hilarious men constantly try to play the lame “sexist” card here against women.
There's a reason why men and women play on different tours. That's why WTA and ATP were created.
Steffi might be women's GOAT but if she played against Pete when both were ranked number 1 she would've lost 0-6 0-6.
Cortana
Legend
She wouldn't only lose 0:6 0:6, she would get maybe 5-10 points in the entire match.
Women are inferior to men in sports, that's a fact and not sexism.
Raul_SJ
G.O.A.T.
Men are forced to play five sets instead of three. How is that not sexist?
canta_Brian
Hall of Fame
How far would we need to scroll back to find some clown suggesting that had this been a five set event rather than three Djokovic would have won? Best of five favours top seeds more than best of three as there is less chance of upsets. Djok has been down 2-0 in slams already this year. So it’s actually sexist that Steffi had to win her GOLDEN cygs with the jeopardy of a 2 of 3 set upset.
Raul_SJ
G.O.A.T.
A beats B. B beats C. Therefore, A will beat C.
Just look at the dunderhead logic. Go back to Facebook.
Are you really this stupid? Is anyone?
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Bartelby
Bionic Poster
It's the preferred option of slam organizers. There are even different rules for the doubles. No one calls this "singlist".
Bartelby
Bionic Poster
There are two different competitions and they appeal to different audiences for all sorts of reasons.
RaulRamirez
Legend
Please stop the "We" stuff. I may also want Novak to complete the GS, but don't presume to ever represent anyone but myself here (excluding my screen name, which is an homage).
Sudacafan
Bionic Poster
Right man in the right place.
canta_Brian
Hall of Fame
A beats B. B beats C. Therefore, A will beat C.
Just look at the dunderhead logic. Go back to Facebook.
Are you really this stupid? Is anyone?
Clown just argued against his own post rather than the one he quoted. Oops
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