Was he a Jerk?

Who is the jerk?


  • Total voters
    203

EZRA

Rookie
Calling footfault when warming up is stupid.

Calling footfault from the other side of the court is stupid as well... unless, the guy is actually stepping way inside the baseline then it's obvious. But stepping in on the line isn't something to cry about... (I don't footfault myself, but if my opponent footfaults a bit, I wouldn't complain about it).
 
Calling footfault when warming up is stupid.

Calling footfault from the other side of the court is stupid as well... unless, the guy is actually stepping way inside the baseline then it's obvious. But stepping in on the line isn't something to cry about... (I don't footfault myself, but if my opponent footfaults a bit, I wouldn't complain about it).

I agree with that and I am shocked that there is even a debate about this. It just goes to show you how many jerks there are at USTA.

I am there to have fun. If someone foot faults by a centimeter I would not be able to see it and even if I were able to see it there is no way in hell I would even make that call. Who the hell cares!

On the other hand a flagrant foot fault is wrong. I have seen people actually step all the way into "No Mans land" and get the the net EXTREMELY quickly. This is just wrong!

So it comes down to whether the foot fault is Flagrant or is minor. If its flagrant then by all means make the call but if its minor then just shut up and play tennis. A centimeter is just not going to make a difference nor could you really even see that!
 
I noticed something that the author James martin did actually do that may not be so honest.

I was doing more reasearch on www.USTA.com and I noticed that James Martin actually entered into the league as a self rated 4.0. The computer bumped him up to 4.5 because he destroyed everyone at the 4.0 level.

The question is as an editor of tennis magazine shouldn't James Martin have known his level just a little better before self rating himself as a 4.0?
 

TennezSport

Hall of Fame
It Depends

I noticed something that the author James martin did actually do that may not be so honest.

I was doing more reasearch on www.USTA.com and I noticed that James Martin actually entered into the league as a self rated 4.0. The computer bumped him up to 4.5 because he destroyed everyone at the 4.0 level.

The question is as an editor of tennis magazine shouldn't James Martin have known his level just a little better before self rating himself as a 4.0?


Depends where Mr. Martin is from. If you took a NE 4.0 and put him up again a West coast or Southern 3.5, the NE4.0 would get blown away. The Western and Southern regions are so much better that the NE and the USTA rates by region, so it's hard to say.

TennezSport :cool:
 

spot

Hall of Fame
There are people who grossly footfault and you can certainly see it from the other side of the court. I think that footfaulting is a tough situation that isn't properly addressed in the code. The problem is that it is perfectly within the rules for your opponent to call you for a footfault but most people think that for minor infractions it should not be called. But there are many people in league tennis who footfault on every single serve. Its a tough issue.
 

andfor

Legend
Depends where Mr. Martin is from. If you took a NE 4.0 and put him up again a West coast or Southern 3.5, the NE4.0 would get blown away. The Western and Southern regions are so much better that the NE and the USTA rates by region, so it's hard to say.

TennezSport :cool:

How come this incorrect perception of one section NTRP strength verses another continues on and on? What makes this argument so rediculous is with this logic the Southern 3.5 champs would beat the NE 4.0 champs, wrong. Sure the Southern's have more players at a given level than the NE but this does not change the level in question itself.

Your either correctly rated in the NTRP system or not. Period.
 
Depends where Mr. Martin is from. If you took a NE 4.0 and put him up again a West coast or Southern 3.5, the NE4.0 would get blown away. The Western and Southern regions are so much better that the NE and the USTA rates by region, so it's hard to say.

TennezSport :cool:


Well it does not apply to Mr. Martin because he is from Westchester and plays in Westchester. Furthermore since the USTA is in Westchester I would also assume that he works there as well.
 
There are people who grossly footfault and you can certainly see it from the other side of the court. I think that footfaulting is a tough situation that isn't properly addressed in the code. The problem is that it is perfectly within the rules for your opponent to call you for a footfault but most people think that for minor infractions it should not be called. But there are many people in league tennis who footfault on every single serve. Its a tough issue.

Its just common courtesy. A minor footfault like the one canas just made should not be called. I mean big deal...lets say somenes backfoot went over the center line by a milimeter...who the hell cares! I mean on the professional level where you have a line judge right on top of you ...well thats one thing. But this is a freaking USTA match....I gurantee you that every single player footfaults at least once a match by a milimeter. Who the hell cares!!!

If its flagrant then call it ...otheriwse just play tennis.
 

Kevo

Legend
How come this incorrect perception of one section NTRP strength verses another continues on and on? What makes this argument so rediculous is with this logic the Southern 3.5 champs would beat the NE 4.0 champs, wrong. Sure the Southern's have more players at a given level than the NE but this does not change the level in question itself.

Your either correctly rated in the NTRP system or not. Period.

It's not as black and white as that. Computer ratings are based on wins and losses. If you can't hit a backhand to save your life, but you have the serve of Roddick and the forehand of Federer then you will beat all the 4.0s and will move up to 4.5 at least. However, according to the NTRP guidelines you would not be a 4.0 or 4.5 because you "should" have some kind of backhand. So this is a contrived example, but there are pushers who hit defensively all the time that are 4.0. Not because they fit the guidelines, but because they can compete with other 4.0s. As far as the regional sections being a half point or more off, I don't know about that. I'd need to see it for myself.
 

Fedace

Banned
Did you guys read the tennis mag article this month "A season on the Edge"?

The author tells a story of a jerk he played in league. But he intentionally keeps the identity of the team and the player a secret to "protect the guilty".

Well the secret is now out!! The team he is talking about is the Saw Mill Club in Westchester NY and the player he is talking about is Rich Callwood .

How do I know?? Well all you have to do is plug in the authors name James Martin into the USTA website. Next you look up his matches in 4.5 league. There is only one match where his opponent defaulted and it was Rich Callwood of the Saw Mill Club. ( he mention in the article that his opponent defaulted and that it was 4.5 league).

Call me Sherlock Holmes.:)
I dare Rich Callwood to respond to this accusations ;) :confused: :grin: :
 

Joeyg

Semi-Pro
Foot faults are still cheating. Even a "little" bit

Rich Callwood was wrong to try and psych out his opponent by calling footfaults during warm-ups. However, foot faulting even one inch in a league match is BS. If you have been warned and you continue to do it, you are CHEATING!!! League tennis is ultimately a team endeavor and most players take it very seriously.

I cannot believe that there are people on these boards that say "no big deal". It can be a VERY big deal to gain an advantage by moving in to the court before you are supposed to. Foot faulting is against the rules. If it wasn't there would be no reason not to move in and get a running start into the court. To try and say a little bit is OK is crap. It is notamatter of degrees. If it was, how far in is OK?

I know there are those of you that will say I am taking it too seriously. To those of you with that opinion, start playing by the rules. end of rant!
 

Moves

New User
But this is a freaking USTA match....I gurantee you that every single player footfaults at least once a match by a milimeter.

Nope. I don't move my feet until I go vertical and I never touch the line at set-up. I never even considered touching the line before I hit the ball an option. :confused:

The foot fault I always see is the set up behind the line, then the toss, then the big step into the court, then the hit. I mean, how do you even develop that habit unless you disrespect the game? :confused:

- Moves

ps. I have a size 13 foot. :p
 
Nope. I don't move my feet until I go vertical and I never touch the line at set-up. I never even considered touching the line before I hit the ball an option. :confused:

The foot fault I always see is the set up behind the line, then the toss, then the big step into the court, then the hit. I mean, how do you even develop that habit unless you disrespect the game? :confused:

- Moves

ps. I have a size 13 foot. :p


There is no way you can honestly make that call from the other end of the court unless its flagrant. If you make a call like that when its by like a centimeter then you are completely dishonest.

First you have the net as an obstruction. Next you are really freaking far away. After that you have sunlight or tough lighting indoors to deal with. Next you have to watch if the serve is in. Then you have to try to return it.

Its a freaking silly call from that vantage point. You cannot make an honest call from that vantage point unless its a very flagrant step.

Finally I'm not even sure you are allowed to make that call from that point. I believe you are only allowed to give a warning.....but I am not sure of the rule.
 

ClimbK2

New User
Google search "Rich Callwood"

Seriously, just because it appears in a magazine, everyone seems to think that the author's version of events is gospel. How in the world do we know that the author isn't the one in the wrong and that the other guy, after warning him several times that he was foot-faulting (and yes, it can be so obvious you can see it from the opposite baseline), decided to call it quits rather than put up with such deliberate cheating? That is an entirely possible scenario.

Just remember, he who writes history, makes history.

Good point. This thread appears first if you do a Google search "Rich Callwood" -- if the author, CLEARLY no saint by his own admission, exagerated the story, Rich is unfairly hosed for all history.
 

AndrewD

Legend
Finally if you read the article the dude from Saw Mill admitted that he was calling them because the captain of the Saw Mill team was having a line call problem with the authors team!

The other guy admitted nothing: all you have are the author's words and his interpretation of events. You have absolutely no idea whether the words attributed to the guy from Saw Mill (what you call an admission) are in context or not. For all you, or any of us know, he could have been referring to something else altogether.

I will say, however, in all my time playing sport (not just tennis) I've very rarely seen cheats give up after only 3 games. Usually, those guys stick around for the long haul and it's their opponents who are move to defaulting. I wonder why, in this case, the exact opposite happened?
 
The other guy admitted nothing: all you have are the author's words and his interpretation of events. You have absolutely no idea whether the words attributed to the guy from Saw Mill (what you call an admission) are in context or not. For all you, or any of us know, he could have been referring to something else altogether.

I will say, however, in all my time playing sport (not just tennis) I've very rarely seen cheats give up after only 3 games. Usually, those guys stick around for the long haul and it's their opponents who are move to defaulting. I wonder why, in this case, the exact opposite happened?

Probably because he was getting the crap kicked out of him. It was 3-0 when the cheater from Saw Mill quit. Usually my experience with cheaters is that if their crap is not working then they do give up. Saw Mill was going to be very embarrassed. Foot fault or not the score was 3-0!

Secondly where is Callwood? I would love to hear his side of the story and why he was calling footfaults from all the way on the other side of the court? Are you on the Saw Mill team because you are defending this cheater a bit too much.

If you want to hear Callwoods side of his cheating story so badly just contact the Saw Mill Club. I am sure they would be interested to hear how their club is being portrayed by the media . Please let them know that thousands of people read the boards at TW and it would be in their best interest to give their side of the story. I think we would all like to see that! Here you go big shot...send them an email:
www.sawmillclub.com...If callwood even has the balls to respond then we can prin his response here on TW!!! We can even write to James Martin and demand that he print the rebuttal.
 
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Cruzer

Professional
The other guy admitted nothing: all you have are the author's words and his interpretation of events. You have absolutely no idea whether the words attributed to the guy from Saw Mill (what you call an admission) are in context or not. For all you, or any of us know, he could have been referring to something else altogether.

Very good point. As the saying goes there are two sides to every story and the truth always somewhere between the two.
 

Moves

New User
There is no way you can honestly make that call from the other end of the court unless its flagrant.

Oh, I never call it in singles because you can't watch the foot and the ball at the same time. The only way to do that is to predict he is going to fault his first serve and just watch the foot. Also difficult to do. :p

Only when I'm on the net in doubles do I even think about checking. Then after the serve I will nicely say, "John, you're foot faulting", just like a good coach would say, not a bad sport would say.

- Moves
 

beernutz

Hall of Fame
There is no way you can honestly make that call from the other end of the court unless its flagrant. If you make a call like that when its by like a centimeter then you are completely dishonest.

First you have the net as an obstruction. Next you are really freaking far away. After that you have sunlight or tough lighting indoors to deal with. Next you have to watch if the serve is in. Then you have to try to return it.

Its a freaking silly call from that vantage point. You cannot make an honest call from that vantage point unless its a very flagrant step.

Finally I'm not even sure you are allowed to make that call from that point. I believe you are only allowed to give a warning.....but I am not sure of the rule.


You are not supposed to make a foot fault call of any kind UNLESS it is FLAGRANT. I don't think anyone is arguing otherwise, and that is what the Code specifies.

You have very strong opinions about this for someone who won't even be bothered to go look up what the rules say. I think there is a commonly used name for such a person...
 

spot

Hall of Fame
Anyone find it odd that the author is the only one that broke the rules? He footfaulted and when his opponent claimed the point he just blatantly disregarded it.
 

Moves

New User
I was wondering if someone else would mention this....good call.

That is the one weak part of the story. At no point does the author say, "I don't foot fault." I could have said, "It's not possible as I don't move my feet."

- Moves
 

EZRA

Rookie
Rich Callwood was wrong to try and psych out his opponent by calling footfaults during warm-ups. However, foot faulting even one inch in a league match is BS. If you have been warned and you continue to do it, you are CHEATING!!! League tennis is ultimately a team endeavor and most players take it very seriously.

I cannot believe that there are people on these boards that say "no big deal". It can be a VERY big deal to gain an advantage by moving in to the court before you are supposed to. Foot faulting is against the rules. If it wasn't there would be no reason not to move in and get a running start into the court. To try and say a little bit is OK is crap. It is notamatter of degrees. If it was, how far in is OK?

I know there are those of you that will say I am taking it too seriously. To those of you with that opinion, start playing by the rules. end of rant!


Why take USTA League matches seriously? Do you get anything from it? It's just a league match.. there's nothing at stake except for bragging rights (if that really matters to you).

Yes, footfaulting is wrong and is against the rules of the game. I agree that it would be great if there were USTA officials to officate every match.. looking after the footfaults, double-bounces, faulty line-calls, etc.... but sad to say we usually don't have that luxury in the USTA. And somehow, honesty is optional in the league matches as I've observed. Sad but true... but then again, you shouldn't let those keep you from having fun.

I've played against people who constantly footfaults - who steps on the line upon service impact. But that doesn't bother me the very least... unless of course he steps way over the line then that's a little too much to ignore... and I do call their attention about them overly foot-faulting (in a very polite manner of course... I don't wanna take the fun out of the game).

Personally, I never footfault... emphasis on the word NEVER. I always have my lead foot at least 2 inches behind the baseline before serving. I've been taught and trained not to footfault since I started playing all throughout age-group and college tennis. These habits are hard to break and I have no intention in breaking them.
 
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AndrewD

Legend
Are you on the Saw Mill team because you are defending this cheater a bit too much.

Here you go big shot...send them an email:

Just because I point out that any story has two sides to it and that, without hearing from the other party and not having seen the event take place, you have no intelligent reason to use the tag cheater, that means I'm defending someone too much? Seems more like I'm just pointing out the obvious to someone who appears far too interested in attacking an anonymous party. Your last name wouldn't be McCarthy by any chance?

Big shot? LOL.

Oh, and by the way, I'm in Australia, as a quick look at my profile would have told you
 
Nope. I don't move my feet until I go vertical and I never touch the line at set-up. I never even considered touching the line before I hit the ball an option. :confused:

Calling out "footfault" is a terrific way to get in to someone's head as the "offender" has no way to determine if he IS footfaulting.


I do not think that one is qaulified to make the call even as to your own footfault. You can't see your own foot fault! You may think you are not foot faulting but there is no way you can tell for sure.

Thats my point...from all the way from the other side of the court, with a net obstructing your view, with having to try and return the serve, with sunlight and shade, and watching the line to see of the serve is in...do you really think its possible to honestly call a minor footfault?

The issue therefore is: Is it possible to see a minor footfault from all the way from the other side of the court?

In my opinion, unless it flagrant you really can't see it from that vantage point.
 
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Fedace

Banned
You might want to send the link over to James Martin the editor of Tennis magazine as well. he is over at www.tennis.com. I would love to see a debate between Callwood & The Saw Mill Club.

What i don't understand Attilla is that how seriously these people take tennis so much that they will go these length to make a mockery of these situations. I myself take tennis pretty seriously and i myself had filed one complaint against a psycho tennis player in the past but that was the extent of it. one thing though is that USTA needs to have more strict rules against guys like these
 
What i don't understand Attilla is that how seriously these people take tennis so much that they will go these length to make a mockery of these situations. I myself take tennis pretty seriously and i myself had filed one complaint against a psycho tennis player in the past but that was the extent of it. one thing though is that USTA needs to have more strict rules against guys like these

I agree. Hey this guy James Martin really does look like Steve O from jackass. Check it out:

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=2813206&name=tennis
 
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flash9

Semi-Pro
Flagrant Foot Faults during Warm-ups

Last season I was a playing 4.0 doubles match, and one of the players we were to play, I had watch pay a couple weeks before against a different team from my club. During this match he was taking a large step into the court before hitting his serve. It was very flagrant foot faulting. This player also charges the net on most serves so he was definitely gaining an unfair advantage. As we began to warm-up our serves his partner and I ended up at the net and I commented that he was taking an awful big step into the court, and his partner agreed. Note: I never said foot fault, just that he was stepping onto the court before making contact. So, as we all met at the net before beginning the match, I commented that we would be watching, warning and if necessary calling flagrant foot faults. We could tell this upset him, because he had to know he foot faults and in essence cheats. So, he and his partner had a long talk, and it was obvious that his partner explained what we had noticed. Even though he was the more powerful server, his partner served first. When it came to be his turn to serve, he stood a good foot or two off the line and still was foot faulting about 50% of the time. We did not call this or even warn him, since he appeared to be making an effort to not foot fault. He served terrible and lost both his serves in the first set. For the second set I guess he decided to see if we really would call it and stood in his typical spot and proceeded to step a foot or two into the court before making contact. So, we warned him. He was rather peeved, but once again moved back off the line. We never had to actually call a foot fault that resulted in a fault, but we would have if he had not moved off the line.

Why are players OK with letting flagrant foot faults slide? Flagrant foot falters in all likelihood know they are foot faulting, which is just a form of cheating. Is it any different then calling a ball out that you know was in?
 
Oh I agree with the above. I gave seen flagrant foot faulters step all the way inot no mans land and get to the net. This is way out of line and shoul absolutely be called.

I do not think there is even a debate as to the flagrant foot faults. I think everyone agrees that they should be called.

The minor foot faults are the ones that are aproblem...because i do not believe that those can even be seen. If those are called then they are called for only one reason: To cheat.
 

rasajadad

Hall of Fame
I used to play in an open league in Westchester County in the summer. Most of the same guys. (The 4.5's would play doubles and there would be significant ringers playing 1st and 2nd singles.) Anyway, the league was full of stuff like this. Too many type-a's!
 

spot

Hall of Fame
attilla- there is a major disagreement about calling footfaults at all. Many people think that because its a social match that footfaults shouldn't be called. For the purposes of this discussion lets say that a flagrant footfault is one where the player steps across the line by 4 inches. There are many recreational players who footfault like this on almost every serve. This is clearly visible from the other side of the court. Would you call the footfault in this situation? What would you do if you called the footfault and your opponent just disregarded your call like the author of the article did?
 

tennismike33

Semi-Pro
attilla- there is a major disagreement about calling footfaults at all. Many people think that because its a social match that footfaults shouldn't be called. For the purposes of this discussion lets say that a flagrant footfault is one where the player steps across the line by 4 inches. There are many recreational players who footfault like this on almost every serve. This is clearly visible from the other side of the court. Would you call the footfault in this situation? What would you do if you called the footfault and your opponent just disregarded your call like the author of the article did?

The only footfault I ever called was on a guy who was crossing the center service line on the add side of the court. His left foot was obviously touching across into the court BEFORE he struck his serve. Between changeovers I mentioned it to him, he too probably thought I was trying to get into his head. The next time he served I caught his serve, advised him again he was footfaulting, that is when the disagreement started. He shouted back that he was a tennis coach and he knew the rules, he was not foot faulting. When he did it again I called for a referee, thus the end of the footfault, when the ref called him on it he just glared at me, I shrugged my shoulders and smiled.
 
attilla- there is a major disagreement about calling footfaults at all. Many people think that because its a social match that footfaults shouldn't be called. For the purposes of this discussion lets say that a flagrant footfault is one where the player steps across the line by 4 inches. There are many recreational players who footfault like this on almost every serve. This is clearly visible from the other side of the court. Would you call the footfault in this situation? What would you do if you called the footfault and your opponent just disregarded your call like the author of the article did?

I agree. I certainly would not blame anyone for calling a footfault by four inches or so However you asked if I would make such a call. I personally would not make that call. I dont think four inches gives you any advantage at all. I would let it slip.

On the other hand I have seen dudes foot fault all the way in no mans land and then run to the net for a huge advantage. Even I would call such a foot fault. But four inches??? I personally wouldnt say a word. Who cares!
 

spot

Hall of Fame
So lets say that the author of the article footfaults by 4 inches on every serve but no one has ever called him on it. Doesn't that change your opinion of the participants a great deal?
 
So lets say that the author of the article footfaults by 4 inches on every serve but no one has ever called him on it. Doesn't that change your opinion of the participants a great deal?

Before I get into this I promised my friend M0m0shir0 that I would say hello in this post. So Shout out to you pal!

As to an answer to your question....let me ask you this :

Do you think you are losing the match 3-0 because of a four inch foot fault?

I personally think its an excuse because you are getting your butt kicked.
 
That may be true, but if the server doesn't want to give his opponent that excuse he should stay behind the line.


He probably does not even know that he is doing it. A minor infraction is not done purposely.

When Canas did it to Djocic it was a complete accident. he did not even know he did it.

Now on the pro level with a line judge right there I completely understand. But lets say that was a league match. Do you think that Canas got any advantage by stepping over the middle line by an inch? I don't think it gave him any advantage and if that were a league match I would not say a word. Far more improtantly ...there is no way I would even honestly be able to make that call from all the way on the other side of the court.

Oh and hello again M0m0shir0 and JayKay. Yes its really me your good friend babble!
 
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spot

Hall of Fame
Attila- I haven't ever called a footfault and I doubt I ever will- but if I made a call and my opponent just disregarded it out of hand even though it was the correct call then I would be pretty pissed off. The Author is the one at fault here- not the guy who was calling him for footfaults. I might not have called the footfaults in the same situation but he is fully within his rights to do so and for the server to just ignore it is absolutely ridiculous.
 
Attila- I haven't ever called a footfault and I doubt I ever will- but if I made a call and my opponent just disregarded it out of hand even though it was the correct call then I would be pretty pissed off. The Author is the one at fault here- not the guy who was calling him for footfaults. I might not have called the footfaults in the same situation but he is fully within his rights to do so and for the server to just ignore it is absolutely ridiculous.


actually I am not so sure that he is within his rights. Are you allowed to call a foot fault all the way from the other side? Whats the rule?
 

SB

Rookie
This thread reminds me of something I had forgotten ... in mixed playoffs about 3 years ago, our guy opponent started calling foot faults on my (guy) partner. He kind of laughed about it, but the opponent kept on. Then the opponent started fussing about line calls, so some of his teammates who were observing went to get a referee for us.

I wasn't too put out by all this, because I was trying not to pay attention (easier to do in doubles, let your partner deal with them), and I didn't think we were doing anything wrong.

I guess I was right, because when the line judge got there, the only foot faults he called and line calls he overruled were on the other team, not on us. LOL. And we did win the match, in a third-set tiebreak.
 

spot

Hall of Fame
Attila- thats the point. You are allowed to call footfaults after you warn your opponent. The guy was warned and then the footfaults were called. The Author was the one at fault in this story.
 
Attila- thats the point. You are allowed to call footfaults after you warn your opponent. The guy was warned and then the footfaults were called. The Author was the one at fault in this story.


There are a few issues here that really should be addressed:

1- Can a minor foot fault be seen clearly from the other side of the court?

2- If a minor foot fault does not give the player really any advantage then moraly should it be called even though you are technically allowed to call it?

3- If someone is losing 3-0 then is it the foot fault that is bothering or is it because he was really losing?
 
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