Why Nadal has never had GS semifinal streak like Djokovic?

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by 5555, Nov 19, 2013.

  1. Forehand Of Doom

    Forehand Of Doom Banned

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    This crap needs to stop. I don't remember the number of weeks at #1 or any streaks coming up in early 2009, when Federer was on the edge of tying Sampras' slam record.

    All these meaningless stats suddenly became important after Nadal came back from an 8 month layoff and against all odds went from 11 slams to 13 slams. Not only that, but Nadal dominated the HC season up to USO, which bodes well for his chances of overtaking Federer's slam record, since 2 slams are played on hardcourt. At the same time, Federer's 2013 season indicates he is probably done winning slams.

    Get it through your head that if Nadal even just ties the slam record, in the mind of most he will be better (I'm just talking about the public's perception) since in case of a tie the natural tie breaker would be H2H.

    If you want to claim Federer's superiority, then do it in terms of other factors like his style. SF streaks prove consistency. Nobody debates Federer has been more consistent than Nadal getting to semifinals, but that pales as an achievent next to slam count and record against the main rivals.
     
  2. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    You don't remember because you have poor memory.

    Records are important because that's part of a player's legacy. Jordan is a goat because of his incredible records and stats. Same for Gretzky.

    No, stats is always important and because of Nadal's 2013 results. Experts/historians have kept all the records, and that holds true for every sport.

    Nadal ties Fed slam count the debate is on, and the tie breaker will be based on other area of achievements(e.g. ranking).

    Style doesn't make one's a goat. It's more appealing and draws more fans but that doesn't add any achievements. H2H doesn't mean anything if you achieved LESS.
     
  3. Forehand Of Doom

    Forehand Of Doom Banned

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    If you win 1 slam you have achieved more than if you reached 20 SF and never won. And the record against main rivals comes next. It is really that simple!

    Borg is perceived to be greater than Lendl, isn't he? And why do you think that is?

    As I said, this crap needs to stop, it's just embarrassing.
     
  4. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    That's not the point. You said streaks/records are meaningless which is ridiculous. Experts put weight on streaks/records when determine player's placement in history. You can't escape from it, and it holds true for other sports too.
     
  5. Forehand Of Doom

    Forehand Of Doom Banned

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    Streaks are a nice stat, but the number of slams trumps everything else.
     
  6. tennisaddict

    tennisaddict G.O.A.T.

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    And when he is still 4 less, the Vamos brigade is already claiming that Rafa is the GOAT.

    Shouldnt they atleast wait till 17 ?
     
  7. Forehand Of Doom

    Forehand Of Doom Banned

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    He's close enough to make you nervous, so no. It's fun seeing you people panic already. :)
     
  8. Death Master

    Death Master Banned

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    see this is the part where I start to lose some of you:

    name just one hapless, legless, toothless, gutless, buttless, spineless color blind circus clown who thinks nadal is GOAT.

    and who really gives a damn who is and who is not. I am just enjoying the entire sport of tennis.
     
  9. Sabratha

    Sabratha G.O.A.T.

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    :confused: Why is that? Did Roddick dominate after winning Montreal, Cincy and the USO back to back?
     
  10. Forehand Of Doom

    Forehand Of Doom Banned

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    You are comparing Roddick to Nadal, really? Nadal is a proven contender in HC slams. Roddick soon became almost a non entity.
     
  11. Sabratha

    Sabratha G.O.A.T.

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    Nadal is greater than Roddick, but it's a bit too early to say that just because Nadal won the HC triple this year means he's going to beat Federer's slam record.
     
  12. Forehand Of Doom

    Forehand Of Doom Banned

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    OK, I agree it is early to say that's what it means. But I said only that it bodes well, and I stand by that.
     
  13. TheTruth

    TheTruth G.O.A.T.

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    That's the problem with streaks.

    In the end they don't mean much, unless you deliver.
     
  14. TheTruth

    TheTruth G.O.A.T.

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    Super post!
     
  15. TheTruth

    TheTruth G.O.A.T.

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    Excellent post.
     
  16. TheTruth

    TheTruth G.O.A.T.

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    That's easy. It's said on here several times a week. There's nothing to remember, and it doesn't take me keeping up with anything.


    Anybody who reads this board should know that. I've seen in several threads today alone.

    That's like knowing Federer has 17 majors. How could anyone not know that? It too is mentioned constantly and is even in some people's sig, lol.
     
  17. TheTruth

    TheTruth G.O.A.T.

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    People who keep trivia lists and memorize them?
     
  18. TheTruth

    TheTruth G.O.A.T.

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    For sure, I don't know Pete's streak on grass, Rafa's streak on clay, Borg's # of semifinals, even Federer's streak which gets posted on here all the time. I don't even read that mess. When I see quarterfinals, semifinals I skip over it. What is that to keep up with? The player obviously didn't win them, so what's the point?

    People keep it simple 17, 13, 6.

    It's like that Geico commercial, "everybody knows that."
     
  19. TheTruth

    TheTruth G.O.A.T.

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    Amen to the whole post.

    If it was that important how come no one mentioned streaks when Pete had the most majors? Or Emerson's streaks, Borg or Laver, anyone? None of them. Not one single player, so people need to stop, because nobody's buying it.

    Nobody cares about streaks that aren't included in the GOAT debate.
     
  20. TheTruth

    TheTruth G.O.A.T.

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    That's the problem. Some people are worried that Nadal may meet or beat the record.

    Not one of us knows, so we really should enjoy the tennis and not be on the offensive.

    I don't recall any Nadal fans saying Rafa is the GOAT, but I have heard many decrying Federer as the GOAT, and every major that Rafa wins, this place gets more intolerable with people pulling all kinds of things out of the hat to prove superiority.

    All of these guys are greats. What is there to argue about?
     
  21. The Wolf of Talk Tennis

    The Wolf of Talk Tennis Banned

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    Nobody mentioned streaks because nobody had them insane streaks. Federer was the guy that came and starting getting these astonishing streaks. And not just one or two, but all of them! Federer has the Slam Finals Streak, the Slam Semifinals Streak, the Slam Quarterfinals Streak, the Slam Appearances Streak, the #1 Weeks Streak, and the Finals Won Streak. Name one guy pre-Federer who even had half those streaks on their name? When a guy comes along and owns ALL the streaks, that's when you begin to hear about it. If 10 people have 10 different streaks, what's the significance?
     
  22. The Wolf of Talk Tennis

    The Wolf of Talk Tennis Banned

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    There lies the contradiction. You admit Nadal isn't the GOAT. Then who is? Federer, because he is the one that has done the work and holds most of the major records. 17, 302, 6. So yes, until Nadal at least matches 17, Federer>Nadal.
     
  23. KillerServe

    KillerServe Banned

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    Nadal can never have a SF streak like Djokovic because he relies on taking many-month long time outs, a luxury no other player takes because well, they are not such hypochondriacs.
     
  24. Crisstti

    Crisstti Legend

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    No one is :)
     
  25. The Wolf of Talk Tennis

    The Wolf of Talk Tennis Banned

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    Right. No one is. Until Nadal gets to 18, and then all the Nadal fans who don't believe in the GOAT will start to proclaim him it ;)
     
  26. TheTruth

    TheTruth G.O.A.T.

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    There is no contradiction. I've already explained to you that breaking the record does not mean GOAT to me.

    I used Sampras breaking the record and I still didn't consider him the GOAT as an example.

    And yet, you keep asking me who is the GOAT.

    I don't believe in GOATS!

    And think it is impossible to name one person over everyone that has ever played.
     
  27. TheTruth

    TheTruth G.O.A.T.

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    Hello!


    What is this obsession with naming a GOAT?

    I don't watch tennis for stuff like that. I watch tennis to enjoy player's individual styles.

    Some of my favorites have never won a major. That doesn't stop me from being a fan.

    They don't have to win anything and I would still enjoy watching them.
     
  28. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    They pretend not to care because they know who's the goat by the general public. Had Fed and Nadal swap resume, I'm sure they would believe Nadal is the goat.

    It's the same with Sampras fans who changed their tone by saying there's no goat because you can't compare different era, and you can only be the best in their era. 10 years ago they believe Sampras is the goat.
     
  29. tennis_pro

    tennis_pro G.O.A.T.

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    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2013
  30. Forehand Of Doom

    Forehand Of Doom Banned

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    Listen, chief... Nadal exposed your false god's mortal buttocks with the H2H, and will continue to do so once he reaches the 17 slam mark. Slams + Masters + Dismal H2H is a triunvirate of doom no amount of Basel and WTF titles can make up for. You can only put that much lipstick on a pig before it becomes unshaggable, even if you are a drunk Louisiana hog farmer with low standards for beauty and no sense of smell.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2013
  31. TheTruth

    TheTruth G.O.A.T.

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    Not true. There are streaks all over the place.

    Ranking the Most Impressive Winning Streaks in Tennis History

    http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...-impressive-winning-streaks-in-tennis-history

    Guillermo Vilas' 46 wins in a row in 1977

    Martina Navratilova's even more amazing 74 victories in 1984, which RealClearSports labels as an unbreakable streak.

    Bjorn Borg, Ivan Lendl and John McEnroe each won eight straight titles while they were on tour.

    She ran off 13 straight championships from February 1984 to November 1984. Her winning streak included the French Open, Wimbledon and U.S. Open. She only lost five sets total among all of those appearances.
    She also managed 16 sets at love.

    Long streaks of actual tournament wins will always be impressive.

    Best Tennis Win Streaks
    http://www.tennis4everyone.
    com/index.php/tennis-news-atp-wta-more/92-wta-s-best-tennis-win-streaks

    Roger Federer has the Open Era record for longest match win streak on hard courts and on grass. Below are some of the other impressive tennis stats.

    Here are some of the notable WTA and ATP Open Era record streaks.
    Longest WTA Match Win Streak:Martina Navratilova - 74 (1984)
    Longest ATP Match Win Streak: Guillermo Vilas - 46 (1977)
    Longest WTA Match Win Streak On Clay: Chris Evert - 125 (1973-1979)
    Longest ATP Match Win Streak On Clay: Rafael Nadal - 81 (2005-2007)
    Longest WTA Match Win Streak On Hard: Steffi Graf - 82 (1988-1990)
    Longest ATP Match Win Streak On Hard: Roger Federer - 56 (2004-2006)
    Longest WTA Match Win Streak On Grass: Martina Navratilova - 47 (1985-1987)
    Longest ATP Match Win Streak On Grass: Roger Federer - 65 (2003-2008)
    Longest WTA Match Win Streak On Carpet: Martina Navratilova - 48 (1986-1987)
    Longest ATP Match Win Streak On Carpet: Ivan Lendl - 66 (1981-1983)
    Most Consecutive WTA Singles Titles: Martina Navratilova - 13 (1984)
    Most Consecutive ATP Singles Titles: Bjorn Borg - 8 (1979-1980), Ivan Lendl - 8 (1981-1982), John McEnroe - 8 (1983-1984)
    Most Consecutive Years With At Least One WTA Singles Title: Martina Navratilova - 21 (1974-1994)
    Most Consecutive Years With At Least One ATP Singles Title: Ivan Lendl 14 (1980-1993)

    http://www.tennis-x.com/stats/tennisrecords.php
     
  32. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    Nadal is behind other players, let alone Federer. Talking about the future is the only thing you got, and has no merit anyway until he actually gets there. He has a lot of works to do.

    Player of the decade
    2000 - 2009: Federer (15 slams)
    1990 - 1999: Sampras (12 slams)
    1980 - 1989: Lendl (7 slams)
    1970 - 1979: Borg (8 slams)
    1960 - 1969: Laver (11 slams, but 6 were amateur)

    Most GS titles
    1. Roger Federer 17*
    2. Pete Sampras 14
    3. Rafael Nadal 13*
    4. Björn Borg 11
    5. Jimmy Connors 8
    = Ivan Lendl 8
    = Andre Agassi 8
    8. John McEnroe 7
    = Mats Wilander 7
    10. Dkokovic 6*
    = Stefan Edberg 6
    = Boris Becker 6

    GS finals
    1. Roger Federer 24*
    2. Ivan Lendl 19
    3. Pete Sampras 18
    = Rafael Nadal 18*
    5. Björn Borg 16
    6. Jimmy Connors 15
    = Andre Agassi 15
    8. Novak Djokovic 12*
    9. John McEnroe 11
    = Mats Wilander 11
    = Stefan Edberg 11
    =Novak Djokovic 12*

    Consecutive GS finals
    1. Roger Federer 10*
    2. Roger Federer 8

    3. Rafael Nadal 5*
    4. Andre Agassi 4
    = Rod Laver 4
    = Novak Djokovic 4*
    7. Jimmy Connors 3
    = Andy Murray 3*
    = Björn Borg 3
    = Björn Borg 3
    = Björn Borg 3
    = Ivan Lendl 3
    = John McEnroe 3
    = Ivan Lendl 3
    = Ivan Lendl 3
    = Mats Wilander 3
    = Jim Courier 3
    = Jim Courier 3
    = Pete Sampras 3
    = Rafael Nadal 3*


    GS semi-finals
    1. Roger Federer 33*
    2. Jimmy Connors 31
    3. Ivan Lendl 28
    4. Andre Agassi 26
    5. Pete Sampras 23
    6. Rafael Nadal 21*
    = Novak Djokovic 21*
    7. John McEnroe 19
    = Stefan Edberg 19
    9. Boris Becker 18
    10. Björn Borg 17


    Consecutive GS semi-finals
    1. Roger Federer 23*
    2. Novak Djokovic 14*
    3. Ivan Lendl 10
    4. Ivan Lendl 6
    = Nadal 6
    6. Novak Djokovic 5*
    = Andy Murray 5*
    = Boris Becker 5
    9. Roger Federer 4*
    = Rod Laver 4
    = Tony Roche 4
    = John McEnroe 4
    = Andre Agassi 4
    = Jim Courer 4
    = Nadal 4*


    GS quarter-finals
    1. Jimmy Connors 41
    2. Roger Federer 40*(41 if not for walk-over in 2004)
    3. Agassi 36
    4. Ivan Lendl 34
    5. Pete Sampras 29
    6. John McEnroe 26
    = Stefan Edberg 26
    7. Novak Djokovic 26*
    8. Rafael Nadal 25*
    9. Boris Becker 23
    10. Björn Borg 21

    Consecutive GS quarter-finals
    1. Roger Federer 36*
    2. Ivan Lendl 14
    = 3. Novak Djokovic 18*
    4. Rafael Nadal 11
    5. = Andy Murray 11*
    6. Pete Sampras 10
    7. Ivan Lendl 7
    = Mats Wilander 7
    10. Andre Agassi 6
    = Rafael Nadal 6*

    All Four Slams Per Year
    Rod Laver 1969

    Three Slams Per Year
    Jimmy Connors 1974
    Mats Wilander 1988
    Roger Federer 2004
    Roger Federer 2006
    Roger Federer 2007

    Rafael Nadal 2010
    Novak Djokovic 2011


    All Four Finals Per Year
    Roger Federer 2006
    Roger Federer 2007
    Roger Federer 2009

    Rod Laver 1969

    All Four Semi-finals Per Year
    Rod Laver 1969
    Ivan Lendl 1987
    Roger Federer 2005
    Roger Federer 2006
    Roger Federer 2007
    Roger Federer 2008
    Roger Federer 2009

    Rafael Nadal 2008
    Novak Djokovic 2011
    Novak Djokovic 2012
    Novak Djokovic 2013
    Andy Murray 2011

    Most consecutive matches won at one Grand Slam event:
    1. Björn Borg (Wimbledon), 41
    2. Roger Federer (Wimbledon), 40(41 if not for walk-over in 2007)
    = Roger Federer (US Open), 40

    4. Pete Sampras (Wimbledon), 31
    = Rafael Nadal (French Open), 31


    Most Grand Slam match wins
    1. Roger Federer 259*
    2. Jimmy Connors 233
    3. Andre Agassi 224
    4. Ivan Lendl 222
    5. Pete Sampras 204

    Other Stuff:

    Year-End Championships
    1. Roger Federer 6*
    2. Ivan Lendl 5
    = Pete Sampras 5
    4. Ilie Nastase 3
    = John McEnroe 3
    = Boris Becker 3
    = Novak Djokovic 3

    Most Year-End Championship finals
    1. Ivan Lendl 9
    2. Federer 8*
    = Boris Becker 6
    4. Pete Sampras 6
    5. Ilie Năstase 4
    = Bjorn Borg 4
    = John McEnroe 4
    = Andre Agassi 4
    9. Lleyton Hewitt 3

    Most Weeks at #1
    1. Roger Federer 302*
    2. Pete Sampras 286
    3. Ivan Lendl 270
    4. Jimmy Connors 268
    5. John McEnroe 170
    6. Björn Borg 109
    7. Rafael Nadal 102+*
    8. Novak Djokovic 99+*
    9. Andre Agassi 101
    10. Lleyton Hewitt 80


    Consecutive Weeks at #1
    1. Roger Federer (1) 237
    2. Jimmy Connors (1) 160
    3. Ivan Lendl (1) 157
    4. Pete Sampras (1) 102
    5. Jimmy Connors (2) 84
    6. Pete Sampras (2) 82
    7. Ivan Lendl (2) 80
    8. Lleyton Hewitt (1) 75
    9. John McEnroe (1) 58
    10. Rafael Nadal (1) 56

    Year End #1
    1. Sampras 6
    2. Federer 5*
    3. Borg 4
    4. Connors 3
    = Lendl 3
    = McEnroe 3
    = Nadal 3


    Highest Season Winning Percentage
    1. John McEnroe (1984) .965 82–3
    2. Jimmy Connors (1974) .959 93–4
    3. Roger Federer (2005) .953 81–4
    4. Roger Federer (2006) .948 92–5

    5. Björn Borg (1979) .933 84–6
    6. Ivan Lendl (1986) .925 74–6
    7. Roger Federer (2004) .925 74–6
    8. Ivan Lendl (1985) .923 84–7
    9. Ivan Lendl (1982) .922 106–9
    10. Björn Borg (1980) .921 70–6
    = Novak Djokovic (2011) 0.921 70-6
    12. Rafael Nadal (2013) .915 75-7

    Most ATP Titles
    1. Jimmy Connors 109
    2. Ivan Lendl 94
    3. Roger Federer 77*
    = John McEnroe 77
    5. Björn Borg 64
    = Pete Sampras 64
    7. Guillermo Vilas 62
    8. Andre Agassi 60
    9. = Rafael Nadal 60*
    10. Boris Becker 49

    Most Master Series or equivalent win
    1. Rafael Nadal 26
    2. Ivan Lendl 22
    3. Roger Federer 21
    4. John McEnroe 19
    5. Andre Agassi 17
    = Jimmny Connors 17
    8. Novak Djokovic 16
    9. Bjorn Borg 15
    10. Boris Becker 13
    11. Pete Sampras 11

    Consecutive Match Win Streak
    1. Björn Borg 49 1978
    2. Björn Borg 48 1979–80
    3. Guillermo Vilas 46 1977
    4. Ivan Lendl 44 1981–82
    5. Novak Djokovic 43 2010–11
    6. John McEnroe 42 1984
    7. Roger Federer 41 2006–07
    8. Thomas Muster 35 1995
    = Roger Federer 35 2005
    10.Jimmy Connors 33 1974
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2013
  33. Forehand Of Doom

    Forehand Of Doom Banned

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    You need to update your BS list, man. Nadal has 13 slams now. LOL

    Yes Nadal fans can only think about the future, whereas you only have the past to comfort you. :lol:
     
  34. Djokovic2011

    Djokovic2011 G.O.A.T.

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    Your list needs to be updated TMF. Djokovic has won 6 slams,reached 12 finals[including 4 consecutive],reached at least the SF stage in all 4 slams the last 3 years and has spent 101 weeks at number one.
     
  35. Forehand Of Doom

    Forehand Of Doom Banned

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    Understandably, the streak lists have been gathering most of TMF's attention recently.
     
  36. Nathaniel_Near

    Nathaniel_Near G.O.A.T.

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    Relax folks, ...
    I wish TMF was a Nadal fan.

    The thought to update the lists has probably been given but it must be soooo hard to pull the trigger, given his mantra.
     
  37. Nathaniel_Near

    Nathaniel_Near G.O.A.T.

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    Relax folks, ...
    I suppose, to be fair, that a couple of the Federer stats need updating as well. Nadal and Djokovic have already been mentioned.
     
  38. Forehand Of Doom

    Forehand Of Doom Banned

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    In that case, he has just been busy crying.
     
  39. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    Thanks, i'll fix it. I copied the old post instead of the latest post that I've kept up to date.
     
  40. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    Oh come on, it's an honest mistake.
     
  41. Nathaniel_Near

    Nathaniel_Near G.O.A.T.

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    Relax folks, ...
    Yes, I admit to being mischievous over your honest mistake but still I felt so compelled to be so.
     
  42. Annie

    Annie Banned

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    Well king capy now have consecutive 9 years of winning slam.Does 14 S.F. in row by Serbian Mug stands in front of that unbelievable achievement by King capy?
     
  43. Day Tripper

    Day Tripper Semi-Pro

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    Pretty hard to develop a semi final streak when one of the requirements of any successful long term doping regime is periodic breaks from competition and in competition testing.
     
  44. Forehand Of Doom

    Forehand Of Doom Banned

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    Did you learn English by watching old Bugs Bunny cartoons? :lol:
     
  45. Forehand Of Doom

    Forehand Of Doom Banned

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    You were probably one of the idiots claiming Nadal was serving a silent ban, and I bet Rafa's 2013 got on your nerves, uh? :)
     
  46. Day Tripper

    Day Tripper Semi-Pro

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    No - I don't believe in the silent ban theory.

    I do have an informed opinion though. I come from a family strongly associated with sports medicine . Father - professional physiotherapist with a degree in sports science who has had long stints working with America's Cup Yachting and Olympic Field Hockey, Oldest Brother - sports scientist who amongst other responsibilities oversees the supplements program for a professional Rugby League team)

    They are both avid tennis fans and have explained to me in length how Nadal is most likely cheating. They have no doubt that he is operating a doping program.

    You are entitled to your opinion but at least mine is backed by people who are experts in their field and know what they are talking about.

    Keep the rose tinted glasses on if that makes you happy.
     
  47. Chanwan

    Chanwan Legend

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2012
    Messages:
    8,516
    Can you give us the full length explanation instead of just making your claim based on an authority, we have no possibility of checking? Thanks in advance

    p.s. I do believe there's doping in tennis, there's to must to gain by it for it not to happen. Just haven't seen any convincing arguments for a particular player, so if you indeed have that, please let me hear them.
     
  48. Forehand Of Doom

    Forehand Of Doom Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2013
    Messages:
    3,863
    Location:
    Wheelchair Of Doom
    What is stopping you from transmitting that knowledge to us and proving with "no doubt" that Nadal is a doper?

    I'll tell you what is stopping you: you are full of baloney.
     
  49. Gorecki

    Gorecki G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2007
    Messages:
    13,225
    Location:
    Puerto y Galgo....
    and one wonders where have been the powers that be these last few days...

    #iamwolfmanjack
    #iamthelonewolf
    #iammorrisey
     
  50. beast of mallorca

    beast of mallorca Legend

    Joined:
    May 19, 2010
    Messages:
    7,752
    Hahaha, epic retort FOD......BIG Burn on TMF 's uptight ego.....:twisted:
     

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