Mixed Doubles Tactics

Cindysphinx · Nov 10, 2009

Ripper014 said:
Lets be honest here... your original post was full of barbs... and an attack on male tennis players... what did you expect as a response? A few barbs back...

Let's be accurate here.

The guys here threw the first punch. I think it odd that they would get their knickers in a twist when someone points out that *men* have certain shortcomings as doubles partners also. Barb all you want -- I don't mind.

The reason I don't mind is that, bottom line, the guys who are playing 7.0 and 8.0 league mixed tennis are not prisoners. They are volunteering to do it. If they don't want to, then they don't have to. Their partners will often be double their age and play very differently than what these guys are used to.

So why are these men doing it? Presumably they are getting something out of it. I think it rather *small* of some of the boys here to *whine constantly* about how their female partners are Ever So Lame, yet keep signing on to play mixed. If you don't like that you must play with a female player of your own NTRP player in mixed (who will have less upper body strength, slower footspeed, be shorter, and perhaps be older), you could consider (1) not playing mixed, and (2) stop yer complaining.

You have to remember that mixed is a form of combo doubles. Combo doubles always involves a weaker player and a stronger player.

I don't want to play 6.5 ladies combo anymore. That is because I have reached the point where I don't get much out of it and it isn't enjoyable. Rather than keep signing up and then whining about it here, I just didn't sign up. That's how it is done.

And Raiden?

Suffice it to say that this 60 year old lady had hands at net that the whippersnappers can only dream about.

raiden031 · Nov 10, 2009

Cindysphinx said:
Let's be accurate here.

The guys here threw the first punch. I think it odd that they would get their knickers in a twist when someone points out that *men* have certain shortcomings as doubles partners also. Barb all you want -- I don't mind.

There was no first punch thrown here. Someone asked about mixed tactics. It is impossible to discuss mixed tactics while being completely politically correct.

LeeD · Nov 10, 2009

Hey...

Just couple years ago I played against a 58 year old lady who volleyed at the women's 6.0 level. Like Div 1 #ONE S/V level.
Of course, she WAS Div1 (CalBerkeley) #1 Singles like early '70's or so ( we don't talk about our collective century + decade experiences). And of course, she hit the international tour for 3 years before deciding life was more than just chasing her childhood dream.
Alas, she only plays tennis maybe once a month or so, and can still volley better and more accurately, higher percentage and placement, than ranked 4.5 Men's players.
Naturally, we topspin lob her and hit to her partner.

Cindysphinx · Nov 10, 2009

raiden031 said:
There was no first punch thrown here. Someone asked about mixed tactics. It is impossible to discuss mixed tactics while being completely politically correct.

The OP asked a legitimate and innocent question about tactics for mixed. Perfectly OK.

Others chose to seize the opportunity to make ridiculous statements and generalizations about female tennis players. Not cool.

I am actually kind of surprised that you would stand by the statement that if you take a male and female of the same NTRP, the male will have a better net game.

It completely and totally depends on what the individual's skill set is. **Net play/volleys is not a strength-dependent or footspeed-dependent skill.** It depends on reactions, quickness/agility, and the discipline to learn and maintain correct form. It tends to reward those who take the time to learn to do it properly. A middle-aged woman can strike a volley just as effectively as a muscle-bound guy or a male sprinter. Who will be the better net player depends on who has the better technique and fundamentals and experience and desire.

Ripper014 · Nov 10, 2009

To be accurate I think you threw the first punch... with your original post that was what appeared to be a blanket statement of male players.

As for having played mixed league in the past it was because I was pretty much begged to play by the women, because they could not get any other men to play. So I would not say so much as I volunteered than I was drafted, I did it out of the goodness of my heart or they would not have been able to field a team (I was not the only one that did it for this reason)... was it fun..? It was a Sunday morning out in the sun... playing some silly tennis for a few hours.

And if we are calling the kettle black weren't you whining about your partner in your first post? Maybe you should consider not playing mixed.

Cindysphinx · Nov 10, 2009

Ripper014 said:
I have never been able to take mixed doubles seriously. I was asked to play in a mixed league once, and agreed to do it... but I could not except as anything more than a social event.

Tactics... I guess like any other doubles... create a hole and hit a winner through it. And hit the ball at the weaker player... (not always the guy). I also like making the partner pay for a bad shot (ie. player puts up a weak shot, I drill it at the partner). And I guess poaching off the return of serve is always fun.

First punch in bold.

Ripper014 · Nov 10, 2009

Cindysphinx said:
First punch in bold.

Did I say it had anything to do with the women..??? Did you read the line underneath... "hit the ball at the weaker player (not always the guy)".

Sorry you fired the first savoy...

Cindysphinx said:
Tactics for mixed? Sure!

1. The guy is going to overhit. Try not to let this bother you.

2. The guy is going to play the net poorly, or on a good day average. He has good groundies and a good serve, but he is just not comfortable up there. He will not transition to net, ever.

3. The guy will not know how to poach using signals or play Australian. He will not fake or otherwise try to bother the returner. He will not understand the benefits of playing two-back. He may start every point on your serve with one foot in the doubles alley. He is not especially knowledgeable about doubles, as he doesn't consider it "real tennis" and he's not a fan of all that book learnin'.

4. He will not know the Rules or the Code. See Rule 3 about book learnin'.

5. He would rather die than be seen hitting a lob.

I think that about covers i!

Cindysphinx · Nov 10, 2009

Ripper014 said:
As for having played mixed league in the past it was because I was pretty much begged to play by the women, because they could not get any other men to play. So I would not say so much as I volunteered than I was drafted, I did it out of the goodness of my heart or they would not have been able to field a team (I was not the only one that did it for this reason)... was it fun..? It was a Sunday morning out in the sun... playing some silly tennis for a few hours.

Come on. Man up. No one gets drafted onto a tennis team. Own your decisions, please.

And if we are calling the kettle black weren't you whining about your partner in your first post? Maybe you should consider not playing mixed.

Nah. I like my partner. He's great. Gets irritated with me if I stay back, which I like. Tells me to poach and trusts my net game.

I wasn't complaining about him. I was letting you know how lame the anti-female remarks at TT sound to my ears. I mean, the OP wasn't even an invitation to bash women, but some folks here just can't help themselves . . .

Ripper014 · Nov 10, 2009

Cindysphinx said:
Nah. I like my partner. He's great. Gets irritated with me if I stay back, which I like. Tells me to poach and trusts my net game.

I wasn't complaining about him. I was letting you know how lame the anti-female remarks at TT sound to my ears. I mean, the OP wasn't even an invitation to bash women, but some folks here just can't help themselves . . .

Well obviously it didn't come across that way did it...

raiden031 · Nov 10, 2009

Cindysphinx said:
I am actually kind of surprised that you would stand by the statement that if you take a male and female of the same NTRP, the male will have a better net game.

It completely and totally depends on what the individual's skill set is. **Net play/volleys is not a strength-dependent or footspeed-dependent skill.** It depends on reactions, quickness/agility, and the discipline to learn and maintain correct form. It tends to reward those who take the time to learn to do it properly. A middle-aged woman can strike a volley just as effectively as a muscle-bound guy or a male sprinter. Who will be the better net player depends on who has the better technique and fundamentals and experience and desire.

I kinda disagree. I think it is very important to be able to move around the court with quickness and agility in order to be a good volleyer (or maybe net player is the better term). I've seen some 60 year old women who can volley dependably when a ball comes to them, but I don't see them standing on the deuce side and volleying a floater on the ad side for a putaway. Like I said, I haven't faced that kind of aggressiveness in mixed. I'm sure they are out there, but I would guess its mainly the younger, former college types, who I don't see too often in the usta leagues.

Cindysphinx · Nov 10, 2009

Ripper014 said:
Did I say it had anything to do with the women..??? Did you read the line underneath... "hit the ball at the weaker player (not always the guy)".

Sorry you fired the first savoy...

I would apologize for misinterpreting your posts and your opinion of women tennis players, but I would say your subsequent posts demonstrate that I was right on the money.

Look. I really don't care whether you do or do not like mixed. Or women. Or women who play mixed.

Maybe just look at this as an opportunity for introspection that sometimes one's remarks about mixed can sound a bit harsh and unfair to middle-aged women like me who play mixed and don't happen to think they are inflicting terrible suffering on their male partners?

Ripper014 · Nov 10, 2009

Cindysphinx said:
Come on. Man up. No one gets drafted onto a tennis team. Own your decisions, please.

Ok... the next time I will think only of myself and have 7 other people not be able to play league because they cannot field a roster... I thought my mother taught me better than that... but you may have a point, maybe it is all about me.

Ripper014 · Nov 10, 2009

Cindysphinx said:
Maybe just look at this as an opportunity for introspection that sometimes one's remarks about mixed can sound a bit harsh and unfair to middle-aged women like me who play mixed and don't happen to think they are inflicting terrible suffering on their male partners?

I would not have brought it up at all if not for your original post... I am sure there are lots of men that enjoy mixed doubles.. if not for the social aspect for the competition. And you made it sound like your male partner was inflicting terrible suffering on you. I just wanted some balance to the discussion.

I hope you have had the opportunity to see things from the otherside.

Cindysphinx · Nov 10, 2009

raiden031 said:
I kinda disagree. I think it is very important to be able to move around the court with quickness and agility in order to be a good volleyer. I've seen some 60 year old women who can volley dependably when a ball comes to them, but I don't see them standing on the deuce side and volleying a floater on the ad side for a putaway. Like I said, I haven't faced that kind of aggressiveness in mixed. I'm sure they are out there, but I would guess its mainly the younger, former college types who I don't see too often in the usta leagues.

Consider also this.

Say a floater is coming to the deuce court from the opponent. I am in the ad court, at the service line.

I could and should cross and take that ball. I would expect to hit a volley winner. I would definitely do it in ladies play.

Is this necessary in mixed? No. My partner, whether at service line or at net, will likely move up and swing volley/volley it for a winner, or bounce it and approach off of it. So I will let him. Failing to do so can cause a collision or a botched formation if my shot comes back. He wants the ball, he will do fine with it, so I let him have it.

Now, I have played with guys where I will cross etc. because of something specific about their game. Sometimes they are having an off night, or their BH isn't so hot, or whatever. For the most part, I think we do better if I play more conservatively in mixed, provided I have confidence that they will make the shot.

That does not mean my male partner has a better net game than I do. No way.

Ripper014 · Nov 10, 2009

Cindysphinx said:
Consider also this.

Say a floater is coming to the deuce court from the opponent. I am in the ad court, at the service line.

I could and should cross and take that ball. I would expect to hit a volley winner. I would definitely do it in ladies play.

Is this necessary in mixed? No. My partner, whether at service line or at net, will likely move up and swing volley/volley it for a winner, or bounce it and approach off of it. So I will let him. Failing to do so can cause a collision or a botched formation if my shot comes back. He wants the ball, he will do fine with it, so I let him have it.

Now, I have played with guys where I will cross etc. because of something specific about their game. Sometimes they are having an off night, or their BH isn't so hot, or whatever. For the most part, I think we do better if I play more conservatively in mixed, provided I have confidence that they will make the shot.

That does not mean my male partner has a better net game than I do. No way.

Why would you not take the shot...? Tennis is tennis... poach off the return and move in the direction of your shot... your partner should cover the area you vacated. The only reason that you would not make the shot is that you believe your partner could make a better shot. I always tell my partners be positive... if you feel you can make the shot go for it. If you miss you miss, we all miss... as long as you are doing tactically what you should be doing you cannot help but play better in the long run. Fear and doubt will kill your tennis game, play positive...

Cindysphinx · Nov 10, 2009

Ripper014 said:
Why would you not take the shot...? Tennis is tennis... poach off the return and move in the direction of your shot... your partner should cover the area you vacated. The only reason that you would not make the shot is that you believe your partner could make a better shot. I always tell my partners be positive... if you feel you can make the shot go for it. If you miss you miss, we all miss... as long as you are doing tactically what you should be doing you cannot help but play better in the long run. Fear and doubt will kill your tennis game, play positive...

Mmmm, nah. There are other reasons to defer.

The logistics of crossing are important. Yes, in an ideal world I could cross and my partner would position accordingly. This does not always happen. If my shot would be just as good as his shot and vice versa, then the biggest difference is our strength as a team should the ball come back. Having him simply come forward and handle it leaves us ideally positioned 100% of the time -- I simply adjust to whatever he chooses to do.

And there is the psychological issue. If you cross and take your partner's ball -- *a ball they planned to hit and were capable of hitting well* -- you are sending a message. That message is: "I don't trust you to hit this ball so I am going to take it." I will send that message and take that ball when it is warranted. When it isn't, I might defer just for the sake of deferring.

You know, I was cleaning the basement, and I cannot get Raiden's theory out of my head. The idea that [paraphrase] male 3.5s are better net players than female 3.5s. It is hard for me to wrap my mind around that.

Here's an example. You are a male 3.5, and you show up to play a 7.0 mixed match. Your two opponents come up and introduce themselves. They are Becky and Steve, both computer-rated 3.5s. They are the same age (around 40), and they look equally fit (healthy weight, etc.). Before the warm-up, what assumptions would you make about how Becky and Steve will play?

I would assume Steve's serve speed and spin will be better. Becky's serve consistency will probably be better (in that Steve will DF more).

I would assume Steve will be faster around the court and will have superior upper body strength. I would assume Steve will have a more powerful overhead.

I would assume Becky's FH will be flatter and Steve's will have more topspin. I wouldn't make any assumptions about the BH. I would expect neither will hit with (effective) slice.

That's all that occurs to me. No way would I assume that Becky will have the weaker net game.

apor · Nov 10, 2009

Wow, everybody's got their panties/tighty-whities in a bunch here.
I played my first ever USTA match last Friday Mixed Doubles.
It was the first time I have ever hit with a female either on my side or on the other.
I had never met my partner before the match.
The male opponent turned out to be a buddy of mine that I hit with regularly during the week, doubles and singles.
His partner fits some of the stereotypes listed above- weak groundies, unable to handle any pace at all, weaker serve, no overhead, weak net game, no movement whatsoever. My buddy could almost make up for most of it.
My partner was a 4.0 woman. Very solid flat, fast and consistent serve. Excellent forehand with pace, depth and spin. Above average overhead, pretty good at the net. Not too quick on her feet.
I'd have to say she truly amazed me with her consistency. As long as she didn't have to move too much, her shots were very dependable.
I had sent her an email listing my strengths and weaknesses, and when we finally played, we worked out great. She knew I could scamper and retrieve most shots/lobs whatever that she couldn't get. She knew I could hit angles and pace with my backhand off the return. I knew she would never drop serve and that her tactics were sound. We both knew we could kill any overhead.
The thing is, we worked together to get the win.

Ripper014 · Nov 10, 2009

Just to stay on point Cindy... I always encourage my partner to make any shot they can make. I have always adherred to the policy of whoever is closest to the net has first shot at it. It is easier for the person behind the play to be able to see and adjust to the play. I usually do not bail out of a shot until contact is made... there are times my partner will attempt to make a shot but is not able to reach it (happens to me as well). I try not to overplay what I can comfortably reach... and allow my partner to play what would be considered their shots. I do not take it personally if my partner were to take any shot in front of me...that is part of the game.

I see you must have other personality issues to deal with besides just playing tennis, if that is the case I feel bad for you. Like I always say... tennis is just a game... its not like we are being paid to play.

raiden031 · Nov 10, 2009

Cindysphinx said:
And there is the psychological issue. If you cross and take your partner's ball -- *a ball they planned to hit and were capable of hitting well* -- you are sending a message. That message is: "I don't trust you to hit this ball so I am going to take it." I will send that message and take that ball when it is warranted. When it isn't, I might defer just for the sake of deferring.

You know, I was cleaning the basement, and I cannot get Raiden's theory out of my head. The idea that [paraphrase] male 3.5s are better net players than female 3.5s. It is hard for me to wrap my mind around that.

Here's an example. You are a male 3.5, and you show up to play a 7.0 mixed match. Your two opponents come up and introduce themselves. They are Becky and Steve, both computer-rated 3.5s. They are the same age (around 40), and they look equally fit (healthy weight, etc.). Before the warm-up, what assumptions would you make about how Becky and Steve will play?

I would assume Steve's serve speed and spin will be better. Becky's serve consistency will probably be better (in that Steve will DF more).

I would assume Steve will be faster around the court and will have superior upper body strength. I would assume Steve will have a more powerful overhead.

I would assume Becky's FH will be flatter and Steve's will have more topspin. I wouldn't make any assumptions about the BH. I would expect neither will hit with (effective) slice.

That's all that occurs to me. No way would I assume that Becky will have the weaker net game.

If I'm at the net and see that I have a chance to put the ball away, I will always take it as long as I don't feel like its too difficult a shot. I don't care about jumping in for my partner's ball, because if my partner is too far back, it will be a neutral shot for them but since I'm already close enough to be offensive, I'll take it.

I equate saying 3.5 men volley better than 3.5 women to saying that 3.5 men volley better than 3.0 men. Sure there are 3.0 men who volley better than some 3.5 men, but in general the higher rated (ie. better player) will typically volley better. 3.5 men is simply a higher level of tennis than 3.5 women, thats the whole motivation for thinking it. I haven't been proven otherwise yet, especially as the best women I've played against used groundstrokes as their main weapon.

As someone else said, more often you say doubles specialists playing mixed and singles players skipping out. Doubles specialists usually have the better net game, so I don't expect to see too many guys at 3.5 and above who don't come to the net.

naylor · Nov 10, 2009

apor said:
... My partner was a 4.0 woman. Very solid flat, fast and consistent serve. Excellent forehand with pace, depth and spin. Above average overhead, pretty good at the net. Not too quick on her feet. I'd have to say she truly amazed me with her consistency. As long as she didn't have to move too much, her shots were very dependable... I knew she would never drop serve and that her tactics were sound...

She serves well, she has an excellent forehand, she's consistent with dependable shots, her tactics are sound - which I take as meaning she can rally cross-court safely, without giving the opponent at the net easy putaway chances. In short, she can carry her own weight in a doubles match. Wow, where can I go buy (one like) her, as partner for my next mixed match?

Bungalo Bill · Nov 10, 2009

Ripper014 said:
I would not have brought it up at all if not for your original post... I am sure there are lots of men that enjoy mixed doubles.. if not for the social aspect for the competition. And you made it sound like your male partner was inflicting terrible suffering on you. I just wanted some balance to the discussion.

I hope you have had the opportunity to see things from the otherside.

Well, I for one do not enjoy mix doubles. However, I do know (as well as you) those that do. I will play to fill up a roster as you do and know how you feel. You want people to play tennis and you feel you can help even though you dont enjoy it a whole lot.

I actually think it is the opposite, that you are sacraficing what you would rather do "say no" and instead help other players get matches in. That is cool, so long as we don't show we don't enjoy it.

papa · Nov 10, 2009

I also don't care for mixed doubles. Part of it is me because I just feel restricted especially when the ladies come to net. I know there are great women players - I've played with and watched many. I will hit with women but most don't care for that aspect of the game.

I'll play mixed with certain people at times but I'm really not into it and I'm sure its me. Had I played a lot of mixed doubles maybe I wouldn't get this feeling that I'm going to hurt someone. I know my reasoning might sounds silly but I certainly do not mean it as a dig to any female player.

Ripper014 · Nov 10, 2009

Bungalo Bill said:
Well, I for one do not enjoy mix doubles. However, I do know (as well as you) those that do. I will play to fill up a roster as you do and know how you feel. You want people to play tennis and you feel you can help even though you dont enjoy it a whole lot.

I actually think it is the opposite, that you are sacraficing what you would rather do "say no" and instead help other players get matches in. That is cool, so long as we don't show we don't enjoy it.

Nope never... always show up with a smile on my face... and comment on good shots by my opponent and my partner. I don't really even care if I win or lose as long as everyone has a good time. In fact if my team is obviously better I will hit shots were the opponents can hit winning volleys etc.

In the end my opponents feel its the best they have played in a long time... and what a wonderful close match we had and that they will beat us the next time.

Ripper014 · Nov 10, 2009

papa said:
I also don't care for mixed doubles. Part of it is me because I just feel restricted especially when the ladies come to net. I know there are great women players - I've played with and watched many. I will hit with women but most don't care for that aspect of the game.

I'll play mixed with certain people at times but I'm really not into it and I'm sure its me. Had I played a lot of mixed doubles maybe I wouldn't get this feeling that I'm going to hurt someone. I know my reasoning might sounds silly but I certainly do not mean it as a dig to any female player.

Exactly how I feel about playing Mixed Tournament tennis... I am instinctively a power player... and have never felt it was appropriate to bring it, so it blunted my best game. Obviously it has nothing to do with my opponents... it just something I personally have never been able to overcome.

GuyClinch · Nov 10, 2009

Personally I just think Cindy has played with men who are lying about their ratings.. So that's why she has a bad opinion of these (male) players. And I do really think she started the attack thread about male doubles players. Saying that you personally don't take mixed doubles seriously is not an insult to women. Most pro men don't take it seriously either.

Anyway real league rated 3.5 man is equivalent at least to a 4.0 league rated woman IMHO. What's going on with Cindy is probably some 3.0 guys who mostly play singles are teaming up with her 3.5 women..

I know cause I played that kinda of game when I first started playing doubles. I am a LITTLE better at doubles now but still a better singles player. For real 3.5 players with doubles experience I don't think many of her generalizations hold true. Personally though I like playing mixed doubles. Then again I liked playing any kinda of tennis match for the most part - except maybe a competitive match with someone who hooks.

Pete

Bungalo Bill · Nov 10, 2009

Power players can get a bad rap. I played some mixed doubles and got some smack talk from a female. What set it up was she didn't like my serve. I have a good lefty twist serve and she swung and missed a few. I guess it was sort of embarrassing for her. Then I got a chance to put a volley away at her feet and she errupted. I just looked over and said, "if I was going for your head, I wouldn't have hit it at your feet. You will know if I go for your head."

I also think Cindy has a point, that at times, in doubles the weaker player is the male.

I would play with Cindy because I like her attitude. She wants to win and play her best.

Bungalo Bill · Nov 10, 2009

Ripper, that is good and I totally see your side. Perhaps, we also see Cindy's side. I am glad that smile is on your face when you help fill rosters. I just find it different chemistry when playing with a female. It is sort of an inconsistent mix of teamwork at times. I guess.

Ripper014 · Nov 10, 2009

Bungalo Bill said:
Ripper, that is good and I totally see your side. Perhaps, we also see Cindy's side. I am glad that smile is on your face when you help fill rosters. I just find it different chemistry when playing with a female. It is sort of an inconsistent mix of teamwork at times. I guess.

I have not played mixed league in a long time... and since I am no longer a member at any club I don't expect to be doing it anytime soon.

I treat playing mixed like playing mens doubles with someone I don't know. So basically I just adjust my game to how my partner plays, I just try to fill the holes on defense and be as aggressive as I can when an opportunity presents itself. Or as you said inconsistent mix of teamwork.

GuyClinch · Nov 11, 2009

The power game can get you in trouble - but women who play mixed doubles don't expect a guy to dink either. With some women you can't win. I find that most women expect a guy to have more pop in all his shots and enjoy it. If they didn't they wouldn't play mixed.

raiden031 · Nov 11, 2009

GuyClinch said:
Personally I just think Cindy has played with men who are lying about their ratings.. So that's why she has a bad opinion of these (male) players. And I do really think she started the attack thread about male doubles players. Saying that you personally don't take mixed doubles seriously is not an insult to women. Most pro men don't take it seriously either.

Anyway real league rated 3.5 man is equivalent at least to a 4.0 league rated woman IMHO. What's going on with Cindy is probably some 3.0 guys who mostly play singles are teaming up with her 3.5 women..

I know cause I played that kinda of game when I first started playing doubles. I am a LITTLE better at doubles now but still a better singles player. For real 3.5 players with doubles experience I don't think many of her generalizations hold true. Personally though I like playing mixed doubles. Then again I liked playing any kinda of tennis match for the most part - except maybe a competitive match with someone who hooks.

Pete

I don't necessarily think she is partnering with 3.0s (unless she plays on the worst mixed teams in the league)...I mean she plays in a neighboring county to mine, and its actually stronger than mine. I think its just that mixed has a very different dynamic than men's doubles. If Cindy and a strong 3.5 lady play against two of her 3.5 male partners, then she will see how much better they really are. But when the 3.5 male is playing mixed and doesn't know how to win, then they will make a lot of mistakes in the process and hit stupid shots.

I play both 7.0 and 8.0 and find myself playing far better in 8.0 and having more successful results as well. Having a strong partner who can hold their own brings out the best in me. If I have a partner that struggles to hit more than 1 or 2 balls in a row, then I tend to make mistakes trying to find a way to inject myself into the match.

I love 8.0 by the way, so I'm not one of those people who think mixed is a waste of time. I'm not so fond of 7.0, although I play it just to get more matches and also because it is a challenge for me to figure out how to win.

Topaz · Nov 11, 2009

Cindysphinx said:
Now the shoe is on the other foot, isn't it boys?

Whooo boy, it sure is, and some reallly don't like it do they? LOL

raiden031 said:
How else can you discuss mixed doubles tactics without generalizations? .

By being fair and honest with yourself and not letting your ego get in the way of either of those two things.

Cindysphinx said:
It would be extra nifty if someone pointed out what the female member of a mixed team brings to the table. There must be *something* we ladies do well in a mixed match, right?

Right?

Good luck Cindy...remember the majority of this board thinks they can take down Serena Williams. :roll: LOL

Cindysphinx said:
Don't make me go get Topaz.

Sorry I'm late!!!

Ripper014 said:
Well Cindy you painted a pretty generalized profile of what a male mixed doubles player plays like.

Again, she was giving you guys a taste of what men do on this board daily without even thinking about it. It doesn't feel too good, does it?

And yes I took a little offense to it, because to be honest I have yet to encounter a case where the women was the stronger player. I have been playing for hmmm... 20 years now, granted I have played with women that were better players than some of the men I have played with... but never on the same court. I would say there is at least a full level between women and men ie. 3.0 man and a 4.0 woman.

And yet, later on you say this?

Ripper014 said:
I have not played mixed league in a long time... and since I am no longer a member at any club I don't expect to be doing it anytime soon.

.

So what do women bring to a tennis match..? In a recreational setting... a smile and break from competitive tennis. In a competitive match... I have no idea, perhaps my worse confrontation on a tennis court was in a mixed doubles club tournament where my partner was verbally abusing the our male opponent what I would consider unsportsmanlike conduct. Fist pumping, screaming after every winner etc... my male counterpart had just about enough and got into a verbal exchange with her... After I got things calmed down... I took her aside and tried to get her to curb her conduct... but she said to me if they cannot take it screw them. I think that was the last time I played competitive mixed (we won the tournament by the way).

If you haven't played and have no idea, then where are your suggestions coming from? Your own personal experience right? Just like Cindy...she's drawing on her own personal experience. You wouldn't want anyone to tell you that your experiences are *wrong*, so don't do the same to her.

For every story like yours, Cindy and I can come up with a 'man behaving badly' story...that's how it goes. No gender has a lock on bad behavior on a tennis court.

You ladies do well in mixed because of your partner or the fact that someone has to win 50% of the time.

How absolutely rude. Guess what...a guy can't win a mixed match alone. And if you've even admitted to the guy sometimes being the weak partner, then how can you say what you did? A bit inconsistent. Again, not used to someone treating you the way you treat others, I suspect.

Lets be honest here... your original post was full of barbs... and an attack on male tennis players... what did you expect as a response? A few barbs back...

And you had plenty of attacks on female players. If you are going to dish it out, expect to get it back.

apor said:
The thing is, we worked together to get the win.

Which is what you have to do in *any* doubles game, right? Work as a team! *dingdingding* We have a winneh!

GuyClinch said:
Personally I just think Cindy has played with men who are lying about their ratings..

Uh, no. She plays USTA mixed league with male partners with verified computer ratings.

GuyClinch said:
The power game can get you in trouble - but women who play mixed doubles don't expect a guy to dink either. With some women you can't win. I find that most women expect a guy to have more pop in all his shots and enjoy it. If they didn't they wouldn't play mixed.

It sure can, especially when you keep blasting that ball right into the bottom of the net and/or the back curtain.

Topaz · Nov 11, 2009

My thoughts for the OP, from playing both 6.0 (as the 3.0 female) and 7.0 (as a 3.5 female) mixed:

*You heard a few others say it...PLAY AS A TEAM. Do not tell the woman how to play or what to do...there's a good bet she knows her own game better than you. Ask her about her strengths and weaknesses, see how they match up with your own, and devise your strategy from there.

*YOU DO NOT WIN A MATCH BY HITTING THE HARDEST ON THE COURT. So, if those unforced errors start to pile up because you're feeling pressure to hit some insane winner, stop, take a deep breath, and work on placement.

*If you feel afraid to hit at the woman at the net, that is your problem. It is never cool to go for anyone's head, but body shots are part of the game. Actually, it is much easier to hit a volley off of a flat, hard shot, so by all means, hit it right at her. She'll stick her racquet out, do practically nothing, and probably end up winning the point!

*I think Raiden already mentinoned this...play with spin! Us ladies generally don't have problems blocking back your pace, so as your try to hit harder and harder and rack up the UE, we are silently encouraging you. However, a good spin serve gives me fits!!! (I'm short, and once played against a guy who literally just spun it over my head ALL NIGHT LONG...quite an effective tactic!)

For every woman who dinks, there is a man who blasts the back curtain. If you're going to hand out the generalizations, don't be surprised when some are handed right back at you!

I would like to give a shout out to TTW's own JRStriker, who was one heck of a mixed partner!

Cindysphinx · Nov 11, 2009

To Raiden:

You know I like you, so no hard feelings of course.

I understand that you feel better and do better in 8.0 than 7.0. The gap between a 4.0 guy and a 3.0 woman is absolutely huge. Having an unbalanced doubles pairing is a nightmare. It would be like my playing 5.5 combo with a 2.0. At some point, it just isn't worth it.

And you are correct that the men I partner with are computer-rated 3.5s in our large county. They are not 3.0s. They sometimes don't know a single thing about doubles strategy, and like many inexperienced doubles players, they don't know what they don't know.

I do catch myself wondering what men's 3.5 doubles looks like. I imagine it is The Land Of The Hot Serve And The Big FH. I caught a bit of 7.5 men's combo play at Districts recently, and entire games were played 1-up, 1-back.

Still, Raiden, I have noticed in some of your prior posts a certain, um . . . mathematical and linear approach to comparing the NTRP ratings of players derived from the idea that men's NTRP and women's NTRP tend to be .5 apart. I think you are taking that concept a bit too far, especially when it leaves you saying things like a 3.5 guy will have a better net game than a 3.5 woman.

I mean, mental toughness is a big part of winning, and winning games is what NTRP is all about. Would anyone think it reasonable to say that a 3.5 guy will be more mentally tough than a 3.5 woman? Of course not. The reason is because we all know that any physical strength advantages a man may have over a woman won't help him with issues of mental strength.

I would suggest to you that effective net play is not strength-dependent and is therefore not something at which one could expect a man to automatically be better. That a man might be a 3.5 (and therefore be expected to possess a faster serve and a more powerful FH) tells you nothing about whether a 3.5 woman might be a stronger net player.

Sorry to keep coming back to this, but I keep shaking my head over it. When I played my last mixed match, a friend of mine was playing for the other team on the adjacent court. My friend is a strong net player; playing the net is her thing, which is one reason I like her so much. She was paired with a computer-rated 3.5 guy who was a can of soup at the net, and she was quite frustrated by this.

If my friend heard you say that 3.5 guys play the net better than 3.5 women, she would probably throw a blood clot!

Ripper014 · Nov 11, 2009

Topaz said:
My thoughts for the OP, from playing both 6.0 (as the 3.0 female) and 7.0 (as a 3.5 female) mixed:

*You heard a few others say it...PLAY AS A TEAM. Do not tell the woman how to play or what to do...there's a good bet she knows her own game better than you. Ask her about her strengths and weaknesses, see how they match up with your own, and devise your strategy from there.

*YOU DO NOT WIN A MATCH BY HITTING THE HARDEST ON THE COURT. So, if those unforced errors start to pile up because you're feeling pressure to hit some insane winner, stop, take a deep breath, and work on placement.

*If you feel afraid to hit at the woman at the net, that is your problem. It is never cool to go for anyone's head, but body shots are part of the game. Actually, it is much easier to hit a volley off of a flat, hard shot, so by all means, hit it right at her. She'll stick her racquet out, do practically nothing, and probably end up winning the point!

*I think Raiden already mentinoned this...play with spin! Us ladies generally don't have problems blocking back your pace, so as your try to hit harder and harder and rack up the UE, we are silently encouraging you. However, a good spin serve gives me fits!!! (I'm short, and once played against a guy who literally just spun it over my head ALL NIGHT LONG...quite an effective tactic!)

For every woman who dinks, there is a man who blasts the back curtain. If you're going to hand out the generalizations, don't be surprised when some are handed right back at you!

I would like to give a shout out to TTW's own JRStriker, who was one heck of a mixed partner!

Ok... I didn't want to get into this... cause when I posted my barbed post it was in reaction to what Cindy wrote... if you note at the beginning of it I reference LeeD's remark that Cindy was mocking us.

I have been biting my tongue through this process... and though I have enjoyed this banter I find it humorous that a 3.0/3.5 player is telling me how the game is played.

Like I have mentioned in other posts... I have been played a lot of years... I have also been away from the game for a long time. I have been back since the summer and have been invited to play with some of the best players the clubs have to offer... and guess what my game is still holding up just fine. In fact it is them that are amazed I can hit as consistant and hard with technology from the 80's...

I also am asked to play with players that are 4.0 3.0 and even probably 2.5, why...? Believe it or not because I am a nice guy... I like to help anyone who truly enjoys the game... do I play to beat them? Of course not... do they play well against me? Absolutely... I hit the ball where they can get it back... and I always provide them an opening to beat me with, if they can make the shot. People who have been watching me play ask me why I take it so easy on them... my reply is I know at what level I play I have nothing to prove. And isn't it all about enjoying the game.

I am getting well off topic here but... trust me... for 3.0 3.5 4.0 women, if the people on the board say that you could not defend yourself, trust me you are not going to get your racket on the ball. I play with 4.0 and 3.5 men on regular basis for fun, and I hit them in the chest with a volley by accident, not because I hit it hard... but that the ball arrived too quick for them.

user92626 · Nov 11, 2009

Topaz said:
*YOU DO NOT WIN A MATCH BY HITTING THE HARDEST ON THE COURT.

That's an imcomplete sentence which makes it wrong. Whether you hit hard or not, you need to hit it in. If a shot is in, hitting hard is always better than hitting soft!!! A no-brainer.

I almost never lost to anyone how hits softer than I. The people who beat me always hit equally hard or harder (which it goes without saying throws off my timing, causes me unable to reach the ball or exhausts me).

Topaz · Nov 11, 2009

Ripper014 said:
I have been biting my tongue through this process... and though I have enjoyed this banter I find it humorous that a 3.0/3.5 player is telling me how the game is played.

Where was anyone telling you how the game is played? We are making observations based on our experiences. Are you suggesting that Cindy and I are not capable of making those observations? Well, I hope not, 'cause that's wrong. Why won't you take what Cindy and I see as face value? Because we are (*gasp*) 3.5 women?

I've played mixed in a national tournament. Do my observations have more *value* to you now?

Like I have mentioned in other posts... I have been played a lot of years... I have also been away from the game for a long time. I have been back since the summer and have been invited to play with some of the best players the clubs have to offer... and guess what my game is still holding up just fine. In fact it is them that are amazed I can hit as consistant and hard with technology from the 80's...

That's nice. That's not what we're talking about though. Again, if you want to use your experience to back up your statements, that's fine. Everyone else gets to do the same, and don't assume that your experience is better or more valuable.

I am getting well off topic here but... trust me... for 3.0 3.5 4.0 women, if the people on the board say that you could not defend yourself, trust me you are not going to get your racket on the ball. I play with 4.0 and 3.5 men on regular basis for fun, and I hit them in the chest with a volley by accident, not because I hit it hard... but that the ball arrived too quick for them.

WHAT? So, instead of using my own brain, I should just listen to how the people on the board tell me to do? If they ('the people on the board') say I can't defend myself, then I sure can't get my racquet on the ball? ARE YOU SERIOUS? Why don't you believe our own observations on our own play? You're kidding me, right? You gotta be.

I regularly play with guys higher rated than me, and I can get my racquet on the ball just fine. In that tournament, I even got my racquet on the ball (twice!) when it came to me from a 5.0 guy.

This is just...unbelievable. I don't think you're trying to be rude, but this post reeks of condescension and male ego.

Topaz · Nov 11, 2009

user92626 said:
That's an imcomplete sentence which makes it wrong. Whether you hit hard or not, you need to hit it in. If a shot is in, hitting hard is always better than hitting soft!!! A no-brainer.

I almost never lost to anyone how hits softer than I. The people who beat me always hit equally hard or harder (which it goes without saying throws off my timing, causes me unable to reach the ball or exhausts me).

Actually, it is a complete sentence. It has a subject, a verb, and a predicate.

You win by hitting the ball back (yes, in the court) one more time than your opponent. You don't get extra points for hitting it harder. If players did, than Gonzales, Berdych, and Gulbis would be 1, 2, and 3 in the world.

Many people have trouble creating their own pace, and hitting with more spin and less pace would force errors. I'm also alluding to the observations that both Cindy and I have made in mixed regarding male partners who hit hard, make errors, and try to fix that by hitting even harder instead of taking something off of the ball and getting it in the court. I thought I made that clear with the explanation that came after my complete sentence.

Cindysphinx · Nov 11, 2009

Ripper, I honestly don't even know what point you are trying to make. You've totally lost me.

You play doubles, and you think you do it well. Fine.

What has that got to do with anything?

BTW, I'm not a 3.0. I am a computer-rated 3.5. I play 3.5 ladies, 7.5 ladies combo and 7.0 mixed. I have played with 10 different 7.0 mixed partners, 8 of them 3.5s. I think I have played about 27 mixed 7.0 matches, which gave me the opportunity to observe 27 different male opponents. That's what I base my own observations on, FWIW.

Perhaps if you are truly playing at a significantly higher level, you may be somewhat out of touch with the capabilities of your 3.5 brethren in a mixed doubles setting?

Cindy -- who would happily partner with BB, so long as she gets the ad side

Cindysphinx · Nov 11, 2009

One more thing about mixed.

Some guys don't like mixed because they (1) don't feel comfortable hitting at the woman or (2) fear they will miss their target and hit the woman by accident and therefore cannot relax and enjoy the match. Some guys have told us tales of women who went postal when the guy hit at them or hit them by accident.

To that I say: You guys are being played. Totally.

I think the women who have called you out for Ordinary Doubles Play (which includes accidental hits and balls struck toward the body and feet rather than the head) are manipulating you to gain a competitive advantage.

I would hope the next time a female opponent tries this gamesmanship you will be prepared. Let her say her piece. If you were headhunting or crushing overheads at her (or your male opponent) at net, apologize and stop doing it. If you were hitting a legitimate shot, suggest that she move back to the baseline and then keep playing your game.

Topaz, what do you think about this? There has not been one time in one of my matches where I got mad and confronted a guy for hitting at me, nor has an opposing female done lectured my partner for it.

The only time I heard through the grapevine a woman take exception to being hit at was a particular lady who is hypercompetive, a gamer, and who will do anything to win, no matter how unethical. Which only bolsters my belief that these objections are all gamesmanship.

Bungalo Bill · Nov 11, 2009

Topaz said:
My thoughts for the OP, from playing both 6.0 (as the 3.0 female) and 7.0 (as a 3.5 female) mixed:

*You heard a few others say it...PLAY AS A TEAM. Do not tell the woman how to play or what to do...there's a good bet she knows her own game better than you. Ask her about her strengths and weaknesses, see how they match up with your own, and devise your strategy from there.

This is where some men might have a problem. If the man is the better player, then the woman or the weaker player better listen and play as a team. The better players should generally be the leader and exhibit teamwork and direction.

If a woman, who is the weaker or stronger player, exhibits an attitude of "dont tell me what to do", then the teamwork is defeated.

If a man, who is the weaker or stronger player, exhibits an attitude of "don't tell me what to do", then the teamwork is defeated.

Now, I do know there are players on both sides of the fence who think their duty no matter is to boss people around whether male or female. Also, there are some females that are just horrendous to play with personality wise just as there are men.

I was playing with this female who tried and tried and tried hitting the ball but was just a mess. She kept apoligizing over and over again and each time I said "just keep swinging, it is no big deal to me. As long as you are trying, we are a team and I will support you."

Shortly after that, she missed again, this time she broke down into tears and the women watching the match ran to her side and were comforting her. I mean she was balling her head off with makeup streaming down her face and what not.....maybe she had a $100 riding on the match or something.

Now, I will go so far, but I am sorry, that was a little bit too much for me to handle. Crying? Come on. Hahaha, I hope you aren't like that Cindy, or I will kick you in the rump to get you going.

Bungalo Bill · Nov 11, 2009

Cindysphinx said:
Cindy -- who would happily partner with BB, so long as she gets the ad side

You can have the AD side so long as you are aggressive and take some risk on that side.

EikelBeiter · Nov 11, 2009

Cindysphinx said:
Cindy -- who would happily partner with BB, so long as she gets the ad side

Why do you want the Ad side? Are you a lefty? Or is your backhand better than BB's?

Bungalo Bill said:
You can have the AD side so long as you are aggressive and take some risk on that side.

I happen to play in a mix team and have played my fair share of mixed doubles. Around here it is the consensus that the better player should play the ad side (can also be the girl) because that is where all the important points are played.

Bungalo Bill · Nov 11, 2009

Cindysphinx said:
One more thing about mixed.

Some guys don't like mixed because they (1) don't feel comfortable hitting at the woman or (2) fear they will miss their target and hit the woman by accident and therefore cannot relax and enjoy the match. Some guys have told us tales of women who went postal when the guy hit at them or hit them by accident.

To that I say: You guys are being played. Totally.

Sometimes that is how I feel especially if I know the woman is a level too low but is playing anyway.

And you woman make it difficult for a man to play. When he is domineering, he is a male chauvanist pig. If he is too soft, he is a wimp or is reducing your womanhood value, when he hits the ball hard, he is showing off or is inconsiderate. I mean come on!!!

I did play on the opposite side of a woman who knew I hit the ball hard and fast, but she walked up and said "don't you dare take pace off the ball or I will kick you in the nuts." When the shock settled after hearing her lady-like motivational speech, I said, "ahhhh, okay."

So, I was on the AD side, my partner served, and that nice lady on the other side was playing the duece-side and was the net"person" for their team. She looked at me and I looked at her. She growled at me, and I rolled my eyes and said "whatever", and focused on the returner.

The returner hit a decent ball but something I could poach on so I did. Now since I am lefthanded this ball was right to my forehand and I plastered the ball right at that polite ladies feet. She didn't even flinch. As I turned around, she shouts "is that all you got?" I turned around and just smiled at her (I was thinking "what a chump").

The next time I was playing net on the AD side, nearly the same thing happened but this time, my intent was to nail it at her feet with a lot more punch. I went for too much and slightly hit it off target. Instead of hitting it at her feet, the ball slammed into her stomach and I knew it was a real stinger. I felt real bad and was immediately sorry. She buckled over obviously in a bit of pain and I said, "I am sorry, I was going at your feet." She got up, shook it off, turned and walked back to the baseline. When she turned around, she shouted, "is that all you got?"

I looked at my partner and said, "what is with this chick, is she RoboCop or something?" We had a good laugh.

Bungalo Bill · Nov 11, 2009

EikelBeiter said:
Why do you want the Ad side? Are you a lefty? Or is your backhand better than BB's?

I happen to play in a mix team and have played my fair share of mixed doubles. Around here it is the consensus that the better player should play the ad side (can also be the girl) because that is where all the important points are played.

Eikel, I think you are missing the "joking" around in the posts. I am sure Cindy knows the stronger player plays the AD side. But you are right, the AD side should have the better player and some teams put the person who takes more risk and may not be as steady as his partner. Still other teams like the lefty in the AD court for various reasons.

5263 · Nov 11, 2009

Ripper014 said:
Ok...

I have been biting my tongue through this process... and though I have enjoyed this banter I find it humorous that a 3.0/3.5 player is telling me how the game is played.

lol, get used to it on this forum. lol

Ripper014 · Nov 11, 2009

Bungalo Bill said:
Eikel, I think you are missing the "joking" around in the posts. I am sure Cindy knows the stronger player plays the AD side. But you are right, the AD side should have the better player and some teams put the person who takes more risk and may not be as steady as his partner. Still other teams like the lefty in the AD court for various reasons.

Hey Bill... I like reading your posts... I would like to make my thoughts on playing the AD side of the court, I don't always play the stronger player on that side. I think there are times when your partner is more comfortable on that side it is better to let them play there. The other reason is because it is easier for those that do not have a fully developed game to be able to hit their backhands cross court. The last reason I would consider doing it is to put strength in the middle of the court where most of the points are played.

This is how I have always dealt with which side to play.... usually my partner will say you have a really good backhand you play the AD side, and I always come back with "which side are you more comfortable with"?

Ripper014 · Nov 11, 2009

Topaz said:
I regularly play with guys higher rated than me, and I can get my racquet on the ball just fine. In that tournament, I even got my racquet on the ball (twice!) when it came to me from a 5.0 guy.

This is just...unbelievable. I don't think you're trying to be rude, but this post reeks of condescension and male ego.

I am not trying to be rude... if you knew me it would be the last thing you would say about me.

And I consider myself to be that 5.0 guy... but most of the people that know me would say I am sandbagging and should be a 5.5

Ripper014 · Nov 11, 2009

5263 said:
lol, get used to it on this forum. lol

Thanks... I find it hard to post on this forum without sounding like I am some arrogant know it all. But some things to me seem rather obvious, but then as some here have said maybe I am just delusional.

The problem is that I had female friends that had scholarships with the U of Texas that I played with all the time and though they were pretty and hit the ball with some pace, they really were not much of a threat at the net unless you gave them a sitter. But I guess the women playing 3.5 are much better than I thought... and if that is the case. I owe someone an apology.

raiden031 · Nov 11, 2009

Cindysphinx said:
To Raiden:

You know I like you, so no hard feelings of course.

I understand that you feel better and do better in 8.0 than 7.0. The gap between a 4.0 guy and a 3.0 woman is absolutely huge. Having an unbalanced doubles pairing is a nightmare. It would be like my playing 5.5 combo with a 2.0. At some point, it just isn't worth it.

And you are correct that the men I partner with are computer-rated 3.5s in our large county. They are not 3.0s. They sometimes don't know a single thing about doubles strategy, and like many inexperienced doubles players, they don't know what they don't know.

I do catch myself wondering what men's 3.5 doubles looks like. I imagine it is The Land Of The Hot Serve And The Big FH. I caught a bit of 7.5 men's combo play at Districts recently, and entire games were played 1-up, 1-back.

Still, Raiden, I have noticed in some of your prior posts a certain, um . . . mathematical and linear approach to comparing the NTRP ratings of players derived from the idea that men's NTRP and women's NTRP tend to be .5 apart. I think you are taking that concept a bit too far, especially when it leaves you saying things like a 3.5 guy will have a better net game than a 3.5 woman.

I mean, mental toughness is a big part of winning, and winning games is what NTRP is all about. Would anyone think it reasonable to say that a 3.5 guy will be more mentally tough than a 3.5 woman? Of course not. The reason is because we all know that any physical strength advantages a man may have over a woman won't help him with issues of mental strength.

I would suggest to you that effective net play is not strength-dependent and is therefore not something at which one could expect a man to automatically be better. That a man might be a 3.5 (and therefore be expected to possess a faster serve and a more powerful FH) tells you nothing about whether a 3.5 woman might be a stronger net player.

Sorry to keep coming back to this, but I keep shaking my head over it. When I played my last mixed match, a friend of mine was playing for the other team on the adjacent court. My friend is a strong net player; playing the net is her thing, which is one reason I like her so much. She was paired with a computer-rated 3.5 guy who was a can of soup at the net, and she was quite frustrated by this.

If my friend heard you say that 3.5 guys play the net better than 3.5 women, she would probably throw a blood clot!

When it comes to mental strength, I don't really worry about it that much. I think its not as important as physical aspects of tennis. I think a 3.0 can be mentally stronger than a touring pro, but if they aren't skilled enough to hit the ball in the court, they will lose at 3.0/3.5. I think mental strength is what separates players who have already mastered the physical aspects of the game.

I think I have occasional mental breakdowns such as on key points when the match is close, but still if you are physically that much better than your opponents, there will be no key points because you will win easily without much fight.

Back to net play, I don't think strength is what makes the men generally better. It is agility, quickness, and killer instinct. Let me tell you about my net game. The biggest weakness in my net game is that I have poor hand-eye coordination and so I have a hard time taking on hard shots from too close to the net, something I think many women at my level or even below can do better than me. However I make up for it by being quick enough to close in on the net as soon as I see a shot that is weak from any position on the court. I can regularly hit putaway volleys on my first volley after serving. And when I hit putaways, people turn around because they know its coming hard and there's that intimidation factor.

Of all the women I have been against, I have yet to see one who can putaway their own first volley or can putaway a shot that requires them to rush forward or to the other side of the court. I just think their movement is always lacking and I'd rather face a 4.0W net player than a 3.5M net player any day. Its one thing if most of your experience is against male singles players, but thats not been the case for me. I actually think the 3.5M doubles players are usually good at the net and kinda weak from the baseline. I think the 3.5W players are usually more solid at the baseline and while they might be able to hit volleys cleanly and take on hard shots at them when at thenet, they're not very effective because they don't move quick enough. I hit the ball low and slightly out of their reach and they fail to stop me every time. I never hit it right to them because thats what they want and are used to.

But really this is my opinion, and I've been wrong about things. This is just how I perceive things so no need to bang your head trying to determine whether I am right or wrong.

Bungalo Bill · Nov 11, 2009

Ripper014 said:
Hey Bill... I like reading your posts... I would like to make my thoughts on playing the AD side of the court, I don't always play the stronger player on that side. I think there are times when your partner is more comfortable on that side it is better to let them play there. The other reason is because it is easier for those that do not have a fully developed game to be able to hit their backhands cross court. The last reason I would consider doing it is to put strength in the middle of the court where most of the points are played.

This is how I have always dealt with which side to play.... usually my partner will say you have a really good backhand you play the AD side, and I always come back with "which side are you more comfortable with"?

That can work too. Lot's of ways to skin that cat.

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