One-handed backhand western grip

GameSetMatch

GameSetMatch

Banned
No idea what you lot are arguing about but since I like wading into the middle of whatever argument is going on:

1. Clay courts are swept regularly. The clay would be like the surface of the moon if you didn't sweep it. Even at the cheapo poorly maintained public courts near to where I live, the clay is swept daily.

2. Backhand. Everyone uses slightly different grip and everyone has a slightly different BH stroke. There's no 'one' way of doing things as far as I'm aware. You only have to look at Henin to see how extreme some grips can be: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EA-Tslpic1g At the end of the day, if the BH is working for you, and you're getting control, consitency and depth, then it works for you. I would only change things if its not working but even then I would still go with what grip feels most natural for you.
 
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drakulie

drakulie

Talk Tennis Guru
GameSetMatch said:
2. Backhand. Everyone uses slightly different grip and everyone has a slightly different BH stroke. There's no 'one' way of doing things as far as I'm aware. You only have to look at Henin to see how extreme some grips can be: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EA-Tslpic1g At the end of the day, if the BH is working for you, and you're getting control, consitency and depth, then it works for you. I would only change things if its not working but even then I would still go with what grip feels most natural for you.
Click to expand...

Oh wow. The video just linked is mine of Henin. The author edited it.

Here is my video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBioEMX2IdM
 
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J

Josh_Camp

Banned
GameSetMatch said:
No idea what you lot are arguing about but since I like wading into the middle of whatever argument is going on:

1. Clay courts are swept regularly. The clay would be like the surface of the moon if you didn't sweep it. Even at the cheapo poorly maintained public courts near to where I live, the clay is swept daily.

2. Backhand. Everyone uses slightly different grip and everyone has a slightly different BH stroke. There's no 'one' way of doing things as far as I'm aware. You only have to look at Henin to see how extreme some grips can be: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EA-Tslpic1g At the end of the day, if the BH is working for you, and you're getting control, consitency and depth, then it works for you. I would only change things if its not working but even then I would still go with what grip feels most natural for you.
Click to expand...

As good as this post made me feel, people describe it to me in the way of "getting out of my comfort zone". I'm not sure how much better it could be, but I have had plenty of days where my backhand was great. Then again, I've also had some of those days where I felt like shooting myself in the head since I know I couldn't win a point because I couldn't get a backhand in the court if there was no net.

I just hit so much better with my extreme grip. I can't help it. It's just the fact that it's not the way it's done that scares me, and people who say that it's not going to get any better.
 
L

LeeD

Bionic Poster
Dude, you listen too much of what other people say.
Why be a clone of society?
Are you gonna have a wife at 29, 2.3 kids, 1.7 cars, and a mortgage of $271,000 by the time you're 35?
Don't forget the requisite 1.3 dogs, and .4 cats.
C'mon, think for yourself, decide your own path, and go your own way. Only thing.....be prepared to defend your choices when push comes to shove.
 
J

Josh_Camp

Banned
LeeD said:
Dude, you listen too much of what other people say.
Why be a clone of society?
Are you gonna have a wife at 29, 2.3 kids, 1.7 cars, and a mortgage of $271,000 by the time you're 35?
Don't forget the requisite 1.3 dogs, and .4 cats.
C'mon, think for yourself, decide your own path, and go your own way. Only thing.....be prepared to defend your choices when push comes to shove.
Click to expand...

Heh, I know what you're saying, but you can understand from a 16 year-old's point of view that has been playing for 10 years and mindlessly practices every day of the week that it gets a little worrysome when people tell you that you're not going to get any better because of your backhand. Tennis is my life, man. I need this.

A part of me is urging to keep doing what I'm doing. Another part of me is urging to change. I'm thinking like this every second of the day. I'm going nuts, man. This sport is making me crazy.
 
L

LeeD

Bionic Poster
I seriously doubt your backhand can keep your from playing Div1 tennis.
But for sure, your forehand, your serve, your volleys, and your strategy game CAN hold you back, keep you from exceeding to your expectations.
So work on those, let the backhand hit it's own winners and returns, and forge ahead to emulate those backhands of the pros who use western grips and still play top 100 ATP tennis.
In other words, focus on your positives.
 
P

papa

Hall of Fame
Sweeping clay courts is often a matter of where you are. In places like Florida, courts are generally swept once or twice (some clubs do them after play each day and then again in the morning) a day and dragged before league matches. The problem with doing them more frequently is that they dry out too quickly. This also depends on the type of watering systems used to some extent but as a general rule that's what done in FL.

In the northeast, courts are done in the morning and then after play throughout the day. However, when you get into dry spells this can and does change depending on the watering schedule and how dusty the courts become.

In both areas you can lose a lot of top material if your courts get too dry and have windy weather.

Most places use golf carts with drag brooms (when the club does them) but an individual can drag and line a court in about 7-8 minutes so its no big deal. I once did our 9 courts in under 40 minutes - when you do them all at once its easier.
 
s_andrean

s_andrean

Semi-Pro
papa said:
Sweeping clay courts is often a matter of where you are. In places like Florida, courts are generally swept once or twice (some clubs do them after play each day and then again in the morning) a day and dragged before league matches. The problem with doing them more frequently is that they dry out too quickly. This also depends on the type of watering systems used to some extent but as a general rule that's what done in FL.

In the northeast, courts are done in the morning and then after play throughout the day. However, when you get into dry spells this can and does change depending on the watering schedule and how dusty the courts become.

In both areas you can lose a lot of top material if your courts get too dry and have windy weather.

Most places use golf carts with drag brooms (when the club does them) but an individual can drag and line a court in about 7-8 minutes so its no big deal. I once did our 9 courts in under 40 minutes - when you do them all at once its easier.
Click to expand...

I agree with this...

When I was in germany, everyone swept the clay courts after use, but here in england, its only done a couple of times a day!
 
L

Limpinhitter

G.O.A.T.
s_andrean said:
I agree with this...

When I was in germany, everyone swept the clay courts after use, but here in england, its only done a couple of times a day!
Click to expand...

In South Florida, just be happy that the courts are swept in the morning. If you're lucky they might be watered at noon on a dry day. Other than that, you're pretty much on your own.
 
drakulie

drakulie

Talk Tennis Guru
^^Try turning your audio up. You could hear me asking what time it is. But this is what we all like about you,,,,,your attention to detail. :roll:
 
L

Limpinhitter

G.O.A.T.
drakulie said:
^^Try turning your audio up. You could hear me asking what time it is. But this is what we all like about you,,,,,your attention to detail. :roll:
Click to expand...

Let's see if I got this right, you went to all this trouble filming the courts where you are employed being swept and asking your buddy to say what time it is just so you could troll TT with it? Hahahahaha . . . . You're World class loser, Drakulie!

So, here's my imitation of a Drakulie response: Where's the proof of what time it was? I'm supposed to take you friends word for it? You could have dubbed that conversation. The ambient light was way too low for it to be 1:01 in So. Florida. It had to be dawn or dusk!
 
BreakPoint

BreakPoint

Bionic Poster
Limpinhitter said:
Well, as a threashhold matter, it's a good sign that you recognize that there are some differences between Edberg's and Federer's backhands. Primarily, Federer has too much elbow involvment in his forward swing and he doesn't have enough upper body rotation.
Click to expand...
Huh? It's better not to have too much body rotation on the 1HBH. That's reserved for the 2HBH. It's better to use your shoulder and not your trunk as the pivot point on a 1HBH. You want to rotate your shoulder up and out, not around your body.

This is pretty much a perfect, classic 1HBH: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oX7CcDIkMhE

Notice how Federer doesn't open up his body and rotate until well after contact and his arm is on the other side of his body.

I find Edberg's backhand to be a bit too stiff armed and too lock-wristed as if he was hitting a backhand volley. Federer rolls his wrist more to add topspin to his shot.
 
L

Limpinhitter

G.O.A.T.
BreakPoint said:
Huh? It's better not to have too much body rotation on the 1HBH. That's reserved for the 2HBH. It's better to use your shoulder and not your trunk as the pivot point on a 1HBH. You want to rotate your shoulder up and out, not around your body.

This is pretty much a perfect, classic 1HBH: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oX7CcDIkMhE

Notice how Federer doesn't open up his body and rotate until well after contact and his arm is on the other side of his body.

I find Edberg's backhand to be a bit too stiff armed and too lock-wristed as if he was hitting a backhand volley. Federer rolls his wrist more to add topspin to his shot.
Click to expand...

At least we agree on the relative attributes of Edberg's and Federer's backhands. I happen to think that Edberg's technique is better, and the small differences in their backhands is the reason Edberg's backhand was a more consistent and reliable weapon.
 
aimr75

aimr75

Hall of Fame
Limpinhitter said:
At least we agree on the relative attributes of Edberg's and Federer's backhands. I happen to think that Edberg's technique is better, and the small differences in their backhands is the reason Edberg's backhand was a more consistent and reliable weapon.
Click to expand...

curious how edbergs backhand would hold up to todays game.. facing guys like nadal.. particularly since his grip was essentially continental too
 
BreakPoint

BreakPoint

Bionic Poster
Limpinhitter said:
At least we agree on the relative attributes of Edberg's and Federer's backhands. I happen to think that Edberg's technique is better, and the small differences in their backhands is the reason Edberg's backhand was a more consistent and reliable weapon.
Click to expand...
I think Edberg's arm is too straight on his backhand. He hits it like he's opening or closing a door. Hard to generate much power like that. I'd bet Federer can hit his backhand much harder than Edberg can.
 
L

Limpinhitter

G.O.A.T.
aimr75 said:
curious how edbergs backhand would hold up to todays game.. facing guys like nadal.. particularly since his grip was essentially continental too
Click to expand...

On grass, I think Ralph would struggle against Edberg. FiveO gave a thoughtful answer to your question in the Former Pro Player section/best backhand thread, invoking such players as Lendl, Bruguera and Berasategui.

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=250869&page=46
 
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L

Limpinhitter

G.O.A.T.
BreakPoint said:
I think Edberg's arm is too straight on his backhand. He hits it like he's opening or closing a door. Hard to generate much power like that. I'd bet Federer can hit his backhand much harder than Edberg can.
Click to expand...

"Much harder?" I don't think so!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpZnZlXWxQw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OD6k2kpkKZQ&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qoDFcHnWZR0&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXB4msX1oYo&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wug_MvShZ94&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8u2gfExT3Vk&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POj7i0ngs2w&feature=related
 
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S

stecken71

New User
Josh, after looking at your video, it is obvious to me that you are angling the thumb higher than the pointing finger on the handle. That is why you are unable to drop the racquet head lower than your wrist on any of those backhands.

If you are going to use the Western grip, you must have the thumb lower than the pointing finger and angle your hand this way. Then you can effectively wiper the ball the way Kuerten or to a slightly lesser degree, Federer or Henin does. If you look at how high Federer's pointing finger is compared to his thumb, then the hand is at an angle to the handle.
 
L

Limpinhitter

G.O.A.T.
BreakPoint said:
Here's some more for your enjoyment. :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrAx5ae_BR0&feature=related
Click to expand...

Very impressive. But, we all know that Fed's backhand can break down on him. It's a very "handsy" shot. Edberg's backhand in the links I provided is at least equally impressive, and unlike Fed, he brings the goods to every match, it doesn't fail him. That consistency is a result of Edberg's reliance more on UBR and less on elbow and hand. JMHO, of course.
 
drakulie

drakulie

Talk Tennis Guru
Limpinhitter said:
Very impressive. But, we all know that Fed's backhand can break down on him. It's a very "handsy" shot. Edberg's backhand in the links I provided is at least equally impressive, and unlike Fed, he brings the goods to every match, it doesn't fail him. That consistency is a result of Edberg's reliance more on UBR and less on elbow and hand. JMHO, of course.
Click to expand...

Which explains why he has 100 more losses and lower winning percentage and way less slams than federer in his career.
 
T1000

T1000

Legend
Limpin, who's backhand is better Edberg's or Rosewall's? I would think Rosewall's since he can hit a slice at 80mph with a wood racquet
 
L

Limpinhitter

G.O.A.T.
T1000 said:
Limpin, who's backhand is better Edberg's or Rosewall's? I would think Rosewall's since he can hit a slice at 80mph with a wood racquet
Click to expand...

I would pick Rosewall's because it is even steadier, more accurate, more reliable, and almost as powerful as Edberg's topspin drive.
 
Djokovicfan4life

Djokovicfan4life

Legend
BreakPoint said:
Huh? It's better not to have too much body rotation on the 1HBH. That's reserved for the 2HBH. It's better to use your shoulder and not your trunk as the pivot point on a 1HBH. You want to rotate your shoulder up and out, not around your body.
Click to expand...

By upper body rotation he means shoulder turn during the preparation (i.e. back facing your opponent). Fed's shoulder turn is fine, don't know what LH is looking for.
 
L

Limpinhitter

G.O.A.T.
Djokovicfan4life said:
By upper body rotation he means shoulder turn during the preparation (i.e. back facing your opponent). Fed's shoulder turn is fine, don't know what LH is looking for.
Click to expand...

I mean both back and forth. That's what UBR is. The point of a full turn back is to be able to employ a full turn in to the shot. Fed's shoulder turn could be better. He compensates with elbow and hand involvement that, in turn, hinders his consistency.
 
P

panache5

Rookie
if your still having a trouble with the semi-western 1hbh quote me and I'll give you all the info my pro told me. it has has helped me in shot selection and different swing paths depending on the ball.
 
GameSetMatch

GameSetMatch

Banned
Jeez, Limpinhitter, can you stop bleating on with your childish tiresome comments about drakulie? You make yourself look really silly. You seem to think that that you're as the world's greatest authority on one handed backhands when you're nothing of the sort.
 
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BreakPoint

BreakPoint

Bionic Poster
Limpinhitter said:
Very impressive. But, we all know that Fed's backhand can break down on him. It's a very "handsy" shot. Edberg's backhand in the links I provided is at least equally impressive, and unlike Fed, he brings the goods to every match, it doesn't fail him. That consistency is a result of Edberg's reliance more on UBR and less on elbow and hand. JMHO, of course.
Click to expand...
I think Federer's FOREHAND breaks down far more often than his backhand does. His backhand is by far his more reliable and consistent shot, IMHO. He's just more aggressive with his forehand most of the time and he likes to use his forehand to move the ball around and hit his favorite inside-out forehands.

BTW, if you want a consistent and accurate 1HBH, you want to stay sideways to the net for as long as possible through the shot and not open (rotate) your body until the very end of your follow through (if at all). This is exactly how Federer hits his backhand. You can hit a very accurate and powerful 1HBH without opening up (rotating) your back shoulder towards the net at all by just keeping your shoulders perpendicular to the net throughout the entire stroke and swinging your arm and front shoulder up and out like a pendulum.
 
BreakPoint

BreakPoint

Bionic Poster
Limpinhitter said:
I mean both back and forth. That's what UBR is. The point of a full turn back is to be able to employ a full turn in to the shot. Fed's shoulder turn could be better. He compensates with elbow and hand involvement that, in turn, hinders his consistency.
Click to expand...
No wonder you switched to a 2HBH. I'd bet your 1HBH wasn't very good if you were rotating your upper body that much when you hit the ball, like on a 2HBH. The power on a 1HBH comes from swinging your arm fast and rotating your shoulder upwards (within its socket) and weight transfer and timing, not from rotating your trunk into the shot, like you do on a 2HBH. On a 1HBH, your body should stay sideways to the net and your chest should be facing the side fence from the beginning to end of the stroke.
 
drakulie

drakulie

Talk Tennis Guru
GameSetMatch said:
Jeez, Limpinhitter, can you stop bleating on with your childish tiresome comments about drakulie? You make yourself look really silly. You seem to think that that you're as the world's greatest authority on one handed backhands when you're nothing of the sort.
Click to expand...

He has a very hard time being told he is wrong, and proven wrong. It is quite amusing seeing him so upset and blathering on like a drunken fool.
 
S

sureshs

Bionic Poster
I really liked Fed's BH against Nadal at the YEC. Though the bounce was not high enough to be conclusive about this, I felt his improved backhand was much more aggressive and accurate. At last you did not feel sorry for him when Nadal pounded his BH. I hope he keeps up this level instead of slicing or leaving balls in the middle of the court for Nadal to gobble up.
 
drakulie

drakulie

Talk Tennis Guru
^^That is absolutely staged by you in an attempt to troll Limpinhitter. It is obvious you had some ofyour friends fly to France, sweep some courts, just to prove him wrong. :)
 
Power Player

Power Player

Bionic Poster
I'm going to go hit some balls right now and then watch the club workers sweep the clay courts next to me. It's a common occurrence if you actually play tennis.
 
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