Should Federer tank his match vs Fish?

OrangePower

OrangePower

Legend
I personally don't think Fed would intentionally tank, but, would this be a good strategic move?

Fed has already qualified for the semis. If he beats Fish, or loses but wins a set, he finishes first in his group. That means he gets Djokovic or Berdych in the semi (since Ferrer has already won the other group). On the other hand, if Fed tanks badly to Fish, he can finish second in his group, and get to play Ferrer in the semis.

I think Ferrer is a better match up for Fed than either Djokovic or Berdych (even though Ferrer is played fantastic tennis). So... would it be good strategy for Fed to tank in order to get that matchup?

Discuss...
 
Mike Sams

Mike Sams

G.O.A.T.
Ferrer has no game to bother Federer really. I think Federer is comfortable enough with his form to tangle with anybody no matter who it is. But I'm sure he'd consider Ferrer the easiest of the group.
 
Z

Z3kk

Guest
Yeah, there's always that sort of flaw in the tournament format, but I think Fed will want the 200 points. I can't say though :S
 
R

RF_fan

Semi-Pro
Mike Sams said:
Ferrer has no game to bother Federer really. I think Federer is comfortable enough with his form to tangle with anybody no matter who it is. But I'm sure he'd consider Ferrer the easiest of the group.
Click to expand...

In general Ferrer would be easier for Fed, but at this time Djokovic is not playing well and Berdych didn't play that good either. Besides I don't think he should lose 200 points if he wants to be #1 again.
I think Fed wants to play Djokovic and settle some scores.
 
tennis_pro

tennis_pro

Bionic Poster
Federer has already won the group. The only reason Fed would tank was to conserve energy but even here it's pointless since there's a day off between his last RR match and the semis.
 
N

NadalAgassi

Guest
Tanking vs an injured Fish would just create a longer more draining win. Better to just play well and win the match in 35 minutes and save energy for the semis.
 
OrangePower

OrangePower

Legend
niff said:
There's a spreadsheet being kept up on MTF, they have Federer down as the winner of group B already.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...HhhcDB6MFd5c2xTVy1kXzdhc2RWX3c&hl=en_US#gid=0
Click to expand...

tennis_pro said:
Federer has already won the group. The only reason Fed would tank was to conserve energy but even here it's pointless since there's a day off between his last RR match and the semis.
Click to expand...

Not true.

Fed is 2-0 in matches, 4-1 in sets. Tsonga for example is 1-1, 3-2.

Let's say Fish beats Fed in straights, and Tsonga beats Nadal in straights. Then Fed ends up 2-1, 4-3, and Tsonga 2-1, 5-2.

In that case, Tsonga wins the group and Fed finishes second.
 
tennis_pro

tennis_pro

Bionic Poster
OrangePower said:
Not true.

Fed is 2-0 in matches, 4-1 in sets. Tsonga for example is 1-1, 3-2.

Let's say Fish beats Fed in straights, and Tsonga beats Nadal in straights. Then Fed ends up 2-1, 4-3, and Tsonga 2-1, 5-2.

In that case, Tsonga wins the group and Fed finishes second.
Click to expand...

nope, h2h (of the tournament, Fed won against both Tsonga and Nadal) is more important than % of sets/games won so Fed even if he gets double bageled by Fish still wins the group

Maybe this will help (from wiki):

Standings are determined by: 1) Number of wins; 2) Number of matches; 3) In two-players-ties, head-to-head records; 4) In three-players-ties, percentage of sets won, or of games won; 5) Steering Committee decision.
 
OrangePower

OrangePower

Legend
tennis_pro said:
nope, h2h (of the tournament, Fed won against both Tsonga and Nadal) is more important than % of sets/games won so Fed even if he gets double bageled by Fish still wins the group

Maybe this will help (from wiki):

Standings are determined by: 1) Number of wins; 2) Number of matches; 3) In two-players-ties, head-to-head records; 4) In three-players-ties, percentage of sets won, or of games won; 5) Steering Committee decision.
Click to expand...

Oops, I stand corrected - thanks for the clarification.

In this case, Fed and Ferrer will not meet in the semis no matter what happens in the remaining matches. So the only benefit for Fed to tank is to conserve energy.
 
10is

10is

Professional
That would be supremely stupid... and doubly stupid are the individuals suggesting that Federer would shy away from a potential match with Djokovic, implying that Federer "fears" (LOL!!!!!) him.
 
tennis_pro

tennis_pro

Bionic Poster
OrangePower said:
Oops, I stand corrected - thanks for the clarification.

In this case, Fed and Ferrer will not meet in the semis no matter what happens in the remaining matches. So the only benefit for Fed to tank is to conserve energy.
Click to expand...

And even there it's pointless cause there's 1 day off between his last RR match and the semis.

Not sure about Ferrer winning the group, though. If Berdych wins tomorrow and Djokovic loses again (against Tipsarevic) Berdych wins the group and Ferrer is second. What's certain at this point is that Ferrer has qualified for the semis no matter what, we still don't know if he finishes 1st or 2nd in the group.
 
cc0509

cc0509

Talk Tennis Guru
He does not have to play that well to defeat Fish. You won't see him go all out that is for sure.
 
powerangle

powerangle

Legend
Gotta love TW and the tanking theorists. Some of the most recent thread titles here:

"Did Djokovic tank today?"

"Should Federer tank his match vs Fish?"

"Could Djokovic tank a match against Tipsarevic?"
 
Rhino

Rhino

Legend
This would be a silly thing to do.

A) Federer doesn't tank matches
B) Fish shouldn't be too difficult anyway, so he wouldn't gain much
C) I think Fed would love to play Djokovic right now
D) Ferrer, Djokovic. or Berdych, they would all probably lose to Federer anyway
E) Fed would prefer to win all his matches and get the 1500 points
F) Psychologically, three wins coming into the semifinal is much better than coming in off the back of a loss.
G) Why snap a good winning streak?
 
R

Raz11

Professional
If Fish beats Federer and Nadal beat Tsonga, then both Nadal and Federer will have 2-1 matches won which means Nadal will be the winner since he has the better H2H. Is that correct?
 
M

Max G.

Legend
No, it's not H2H overall, it's who won in this tournament. Federer beat both Nadal and Tsonga here, so he'd come out ahead if he tied with either of them.
 
Raistlin

Raistlin

Rookie
Raz11 said:
If Fish beats Federer and Nadal beat Tsonga, then both Nadal and Federer will have 2-1 matches won which means Nadal will be the winner since he has the better H2H. Is that correct?
Click to expand...

No. Federer already won his group regardless of whether he loses the next match. It is based on the #of wins and sets won and loss.
 
MrFlip

MrFlip

Professional
Federer can beat players like Fish without injuring or tiring himself out. He's the most economical player in the history of the game. He is also a type of player that needs momentum since his technique is heavily dependent on timing.
 
M

merwy

G.O.A.T.
No because:
1)Federer needs the 200 points so that he gets the #3 ranking if he gets to the final which would be awesome. He also needs the points so that he can regain his #1 ranking next year, so that he can finally get the record for most weeks on the #1 spot.
2)He can start a winning streak that he will continue next year, where he will better Djokovic's winning streak.
 
S

Steve132

Professional
Raistlin said:
No. Federer already won his group regardless of whether he loses the next match. It is based on the #of wins and sets won and loss.
Click to expand...

Almost, but not quite. He does have to show up to play Fish. If he were injured and unable to play he would finish at 2-0 in the group. The winner of the Nadal-Tsonga match would finish at 2-1 and win the group. Similarly, if Tipsarevic had finished at 2-0 in his group he would have ranked below any player who finished at 2-1. This rule is in place to prevent players from pulling out of matches for no good reason.
 
stringertom

stringertom

Bionic Poster
I Googled the words "Federer" and "tank"...no results shown. Has never happened and won't in the future. SexiMasterClassSwissChefRogi will have a FishFry Thursday, with a side of chips. Over/under 55 minutes? I'll take the under.
 
stringertom

stringertom

Bionic Poster
Rhino said:
This would be a silly thing to do.

A) Federer doesn't tank matches
B) Fish shouldn't be too difficult anyway, so he wouldn't gain much
C) I think Fed would love to play Djokovic right now
D) Ferrer, Djokovic. or Berdych, they would all probably lose to Federer anyway
E) Fed would prefer to win all his matches and get the 1500 points
F) Psychologically, three wins coming into the semifinal is much better than coming in off the back of a loss.
G) Why snap a good winning streak?
Click to expand...

You do know that logical posts, such as yours, are prohibited from TT.
 
I

iriraz

Hall of Fame
Considering he is already qualified and not a lot of pressure on this match,Federer can try a few things out.Maybe a couple of dropshots,serve and volley or a tweener.Pretty much an exho match.
 
Sentinel

Sentinel

Bionic Poster
I can see all the Fed fans here are super nervous about this match. Looks like it will go to the wire.

I just hope the TW server doesn't go down during this crucial match.
 
zagor

zagor

Bionic Poster
iriraz said:
Considering he is already qualified and not a lot of pressure on this match,Federer can try a few things out.Maybe a couple of dropshots,serve and volley or a tweener.Pretty much an exho match.
Click to expand...

That would be in the spirit of the tourney. Afterall WTF is one big glorified cheesy exhibition, or so I've heard.
 
stringertom

stringertom

Bionic Poster
zagor said:
That would be in the spirit of the tourney. Afterall WTF is one big glorified cheesy exhibition, or so I've heard.
Click to expand...

This year's edition is so "cheesy" they need to roll the classic Monty Python "Stilton" sketch on changeovers. Would be much more entertaining than the "matches".
 
Sentinel

Sentinel

Bionic Poster
stringertom said:
This year's edition is so "cheesy" they need to roll the classic Monty Python "Stilton" sketch on changeovers. Would be much more entertaining than the "matches".
Click to expand...

zagor said:
That would be in the spirit of the tourney. Afterall WTF is one big glorified cheesy exhibition, or so I've heard.
Click to expand...
Please don't use the word "cheesy" without the correct attribution to Miss Babbette and her epic classic thread of last year.
 
Mick

Mick

Legend
Rhino said:
This would be a silly thing to do.

A) Federer doesn't tank matches
B) Fish shouldn't be too difficult anyway, so he wouldn't gain much
C) I think Fed would love to play Djokovic right now
D) Ferrer, Djokovic. or Berdych, they would all probably lose to Federer anyway
E) Fed would prefer to win all his matches and get the 1500 points
F) Psychologically, three wins coming into the semifinal is much better than coming in off the back of a loss.
G) Why snap a good winning streak?
Click to expand...

i heard from the telecast that federer would get $6 million if he won the wtf without losing a single match and he would get much less if he did.
 
R

rommil

Legend
Mick said:
i heard from the telecast that federer would get $6 million if he won the wtf without losing a single match and he would get much less if he did.
Click to expand...

Wow thats about 12 Tourbillion watches ticking at the same time. Vamos Royer!!!!
 
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