2013 NFL Discussion: Keep It Sassy (it's a NYC SuperBowl Year)

hollywood9826

hollywood9826

Hall of Fame
stringertom said:
Often the best "D" is a good "O" that keeps the ball out of Brady's hands. Who's gonna do that for the Fins? Tannehill and Lamar Miller don't really fill that bill. Adding Mike Wallace could move the ball but a vertical passing game doesn't chew clock.

The current Fins will compete in the AFC East by default. My Jets are also toothless on the "O" side and the Bills are still "what we thought they were", just a bit better if their picks pan out.

Miami '13...a WC team at best, probably 4-2 in the division and 9-7/10-6 overall.
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The Ravens Offense didnt really chew clock. It was flacco barely comlpeting 50% of his passes but they all seemed to be 25 or more yards down field.

MIA can do similar things that ravens can. They just need a possesion type gyu to fill the Boldin role. Wallace > Torrie Smith though.
 
Power Player

Power Player

Bionic Poster
mikeler said:
I was really surprised EJ went in the 1st round. He's a good QB and certainly "NFL sized" but I did not think he was the best available.
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Honestly I think he will be a bust. I hate to say it, but FSU had to simplify their offense for him as a 4 year starter. That does not bode well.

I'd love to be wrong about this, but we have not had a great QB since Ward.

I think that changes with our new guy Winston. This dude is for real. Already had Trickett's son transfer because he knew he'd never see the field.


hollywood9826 said:
The Ravens Offense didnt really chew clock. It was flacco barely comlpeting 50% of his passes but they all seemed to be 25 or more yards down field.

MIA can do similar things that ravens can. They just need a possesion type gyu to fill the Boldin role. Wallace > Torrie Smith though.
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Exactly. The Ravens offense was so bad that they had to make a mid-season change. Philbin helped design the Packer's offense, so he knows how to move the ball. That is why we got rid of Bess and resigned Hartline. Philin rolls with 3-4 WR's who can all play in any area of the field. It is very hard to defend.

Wallace is going to kill for us. I do like Torrie Smith a lot though. That guy really developed quickly.
 
jamesblakefan#1

jamesblakefan#1

G.O.A.T.
Who does Miami have running it? Not that it matters since running is effectively a lost art now. But I'm not sold on Tannehill just yet, and big FA signings usually isn't the recipe for success in the NFL. Still think they're behind NE in the East, wild card team at best 9-7.

Wallace also seems like the type that will flounder once he's paid for some reason. Miami has a history of those.
 
Power Player

Power Player

Bionic Poster
Who does NE have running it? I know the answer, but you have to think about it like that because nowadays the running back position is either manned by an elite guy or done by committee. NE won rings with basically no RB. Anyway, it is Lamar Miller, who is a hell of a back along with Gillislee from UF who was drafted at a value spot in the draft. Miller made Reggie Bush expendable. And Bush was a guy who was told he could not run up the middle by other teams and he ran behind Miami's line for 1,000 yards.

The reason I think NE falls off a little is because they lost Welker, and that Brady-Welker connection was magic. Their defense has not really improved much and Gronk has some crazy injury recovery issues. I think Miami can defend NE this year since they have an all pro Dline and 2 edge rushers. There is no way you can block both of these guys. Jordan also is incredible at covering the seam and slot receivers so it will be zone blitz city and very tough to read where the blitz is coming from.

I could be wrong, but I feel like Miami has built a very strong team on the defensive side. I also think wallace is going to draw double teams and stretch the field. If Tannehill had strong games last year with no real WR corps besides Hartline and no real TE, this year it will be a lot easier for him.
 
stringertom

stringertom

Bionic Poster
^^^Not sure you followed the Pats' SB-winning era...the last of the three rings was won with a great deal of help from a RB...Corey Dillon had 1,600+ yards and 12 TDs rushing. I'll take that over L. Miller's 500 career yards.
 
Power Player

Power Player

Bionic Poster
Tom, I get it. You don't like the dolphins.

To say you know anything about Lamar Miller when he played his first year behind Bush and Thomas while learning the offense is just pure ignorance. Philbin already said he grew leaps and bounds in one year and will be the starter. They would have paid Reggie Bush if they didn't think Miller was not a great runner.

By the time Dillon went to the Pats he was already a household name and a very accomplished back. In fact he was the one star back they have had and yet they have won multiple rings and contended every year.
 
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stringertom

stringertom

Bionic Poster
Power Player said:
Tom, I get it. You don't like the dolphins.

To say you know anything about Lamar Miller when he played his first year behind Bush and Thomas while learning the offense is just pure ignorance. Philbin already said he grew leaps and bounds in one year and will be the starter. They would have paid Reggie Bush if they didn't think Miller was not a great runner.

By the time Dillon went to the Pats he was already a household name and a very accomplished back. In fact he was the one star back they have had and yet they have won multiple rings and contended every year.
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I think you're confused...it's not a dislike of the Fins, it's skepticism they have the offensive weapons to challenge the Patriots for the AFC East title. I'm sure Miller has upside but he's no veteran with proven production, something most division winners rely upon.

As to Dillon being the only productive RB, Antowain Smith went 1,100 yards and 12 TDs in the first of their three ring years. The weak year in the three was SB38, when he got less PT until the playoffs and went over 200 yards rushing and scored. Add Faulk's always productive numbers back then and the balance the Patriots used may be what they should return to.
 
jamesblakefan#1

jamesblakefan#1

G.O.A.T.
@pp I'm not saying rb is a must but it certainly helps with a young qb. I can see Tannehill having a Josh Freeman type regression this year.

I just can't bet against ne. They still have those tight ends, Ridley underrated at rb, top 3 qb in Brady. Welker is a tough loss but not enough to knock them from atop the division.

Still didn't answer when have highly paid fa signings ever resulted in immediate success. Skins did it for years and failed, I just don't see Miami taking that leap, not sold on tannehill being that guy.
 
Power Player

Power Player

Bionic Poster
Thats my point. The Pats system provided a lot of these guys the ability to get the numbers.

Kind of the like the Green Bay system that Philbin created..with no name players at the time.

I am not confused. I get the skepticism. But I think Philibin knows his personnel better than us.

If you want vets with production - Wallace is kind of good no? check Hartline's numbers from last year. Dustin Keller..these are all vets with proven production.

Miami didnt do a redskins move at all. They signed wallace and keller and built this team through drafting. So I don't really get that comparison. Wallace was the best FA WR on the market. The Dolphins did not see a stud WR in this draft so they went Free agency. Wallace may be a homophobe, but he is exceptionally fast and I dont see that changing just because he now wears teal.

I am not going to research every FA signing to answer that question. A quick answer is Brandon Marshall. He was excellent for Miami but had character issues. He had a great year for the Bears. More importantly, is a guy like Wallace demands double teams and opens up an offense. How exactly can that hurt the Dolphins?

I dont expect people to be sold on Tannehill. but why would he regress when he has better TEs and better WRs, and the fins consider Lamar Miller to be a better runner than Bush? It makes no sense to me to assume that.

That being said this is all complete speculation. I just like where the Dolphins are at for once.
 
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stringertom

stringertom

Bionic Poster
LOL...my Jets new GM, John Idiot, signs Garrard to "compete" with Sanchez (and now Geno Smith) for the starting QB spot and he doesn't make it past the first minicamp workouts before announcing retirement. Add to this, with two first round picks he goes twice for defenders instead of addressing holes at WR, TE and RB. We are doomed to a 10-loss or more season bcoz, even with a great "D", you don't win in the NFL with a popgun offense.
 
jamesblakefan#1

jamesblakefan#1

G.O.A.T.
stringertom said:
LOL...my Jets new GM, John Idiot, signs Garrard to "compete" with Sanchez (and now Geno Smith) for the starting QB spot and he doesn't make it past the first minicamp workouts before announcing retirement. Add to this, with two first round picks he goes twice for defenders instead of addressing holes at WR, TE and RB. We are doomed to a 10-loss or more season bcoz, even with a great "D", you don't win in the NFL with a popgun offense.
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Jets weren't going anywhere anytime soon. It's called rebuilding, not reloading. Taking a rb that high would have been stupid, same with te, and there wasn't one great wr this year. When your whole team is full of holes, it's hard to complain about who you draft.

Signed, lifelong raiders fan.
 
stringertom

stringertom

Bionic Poster
jamesblakefan#1 said:
Jets weren't going anywhere anytime soon. It's called rebuilding, not reloading. Taking a rb that high would have been stupid, same with te, and there wasn't one great wr this year. When your whole team is full of holes, it's hard to complain about who you draft.

Signed, lifelong raiders fan.
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The Rams thought enough of Austin @WR to move ahead of us and snag him. With a 9 and a 12, we could have done something similar. At TE, Eifert or Ertz could have been grabbed by trading down. There were opportunities. Instead, Milliner (with injury history) was a reach @9 and Richardson@12 was totally too early.

I hope the rebuild works but work on the "O" first. The "D" wasn't thoroughly Swiss cheese, unlike the other side of the ball.
 
raisethe3

raisethe3

Rookie
Let see here. I predict the Seahawks winning the NFC. The talent they built so far looks to be a contender.

Can't really decide on the AFC. Too many close calls. But I'd pick Denver or New England.
 
stringertom

stringertom

Bionic Poster
raisethe3 said:
Let see here. I predict the Seahawks winning the NFC. The talent they built so far looks to be a contender.

Can't really decide on the AFC. Too many close calls. But I'd pick Denver or New England.
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Welker move swings the pendulum towards the Broncos in the AFC. I also like the Seahawks...might not win their own division but still a very dangerous "out" throughout the playoffs.
 
stringertom

stringertom

Bionic Poster
More character issue problems for the Jets...Mike Goodson arrested on guns & drugs charges after being found in a car on an interstate @3:15AM, passed out and so unresponsive he was taken to an ER nearby.

The guy just signed a $7million contract and was supposed to fit well in the new West Coast scheme but won't catch or run much behind bars. Nice move there! John Idiot's hurdles continue to rise.
 
stringertom

stringertom

Bionic Poster
The league awarded SB L (50) to San Francisco, to be held in the 49ers' new stadium in Santa Clara. The stadium is halfway to completion and should be ready for the '14 season.

Meanwhile, Miami has also been bypassed for SB LI (looks strange with no "X"'s in it, no?) due to needed stadium improvements. Our state legislature didn't pony up half of the $400million needed. Wake up! Money is a tool, guys.
 
stringertom

stringertom

Bionic Poster
Retirements and comebacks...Garrard now officially retired and Steve Smith (USC/Giants version) also hangs up his cleats after recurring wheels issues; now, JaMarcus Russell is drawing attention from several unnamed teams as a result of work with Jeff Garcia that has brought him back to original 265-lb playing weight. Would your team be one of those "unnamed" suitors???
 
stringertom

stringertom

Bionic Poster
I doubt the Jets have cap room to pitch a deal with McGahee but if there is a better addition to their new offense I can't think of it. Make the deal, GM Idiot!
 
A

Andyroddickfan

Rookie
krz said:
Anybody watch the NFL top 100? The rankings are way off.
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The rankings are so brutal. My favourite was Russell Wilson at 51. What a joke. Your team isn't crap if you don't have a qb yet they put wrs, rbs, cbs, worse qbs, and tackles ahead of him. How far is geno Atkins taking your team?

Also kaepernick at 81. Are you sh**ing me? All he did was take a team to the Super Bowl. Ya, lets just rank him 81, embarrassing.

Tebow to the pats. Just give'em the Lombardi now! TEBOW MANIA!
 
K

krz

Professional
Andyroddickfan said:
The rankings are so brutal. My favourite was Russell Wilson at 51. What a joke. Your team isn't crap if you don't have a qb yet they put wrs, rbs, cbs, worse qbs, and tackles ahead of him. How far is geno Atkins taking your team?

Also kaepernick at 81. Are you sh**ing me? All he did was take a team to the Super Bowl. Ya, lets just rank him 81, embarrassing.

Tebow to the pats. Just give'em the Lombardi now! TEBOW MANIA!
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I'm actually ok with Geno, the guys a beast. On the topic of Russel Wilson I'd rank him behind Luck and ahead of RGIII. Michael Irvin made the perfect case for Luck last night on the reaction show and Wilson especially during the end of last season showed how special he is. Luck brought a franchise back from the grave, RGIII is overated.

The obvious snubs this year were Jimmy Graham, Percy Harvin, Eli and Big Ben. I think how the voting works the players are only allowed to pick their top 20. The big WTF was Dennis Pitta and Jacoby Jones? Seriously? and can someone explain how the Chiefs have so many players on this list?

It's also pretty obvious players are swayed by popularity contests just as much as us fans. Maybe I'm being a homer but, Mario Williams is going to be the only Bill to make the list. He's not even the best player on that defense.
Like Ronde Barber said when he came on the reaction show. There is absolutely no reason for Jairus Byrd not to be on this list! The guy is solid in all areas and is a turnover machine (INT's and FF's)

and CJ Spiller is not on the list! Look at his numbers compared to the top 100 backs.

MJD: He didn't play most of the season. I'll give him a pass due to his reputation

Trent Richardson: This one has me heated. How can you rank him ahead of CJ Spiller? 267 carries/950yards/3.6ypc? Because he had one decent truck of some safety?

Alfred Morris: I can concede he should be on the list, he put up good numbers. But, let's be honest they could've put anyone back there and got production when the scheme is what it is and RGIII is the QB.

CJ2K: I had him in fantasy. His line was crap, his numbers were decent, still below Spiller. 276car/1243yds/4.5ypc. I expect him to have a much better year coming up.

Doug Martin: Better than Alfred Morris that's for sure. But, I'd still take Spiller over him too.

Shady McCoy: Yawn another back who couldn't even hit 1000yds? 200car/840yds/4.2ypc. Probably made it based on reputation.

CJ Spiller should rank higher than all of these backs. 207carries/1244yrds/6.0YPC.

I left off Frank Gore and Marshawn Lynch since they are rightfully ranked above him. Marshawn is 2nd only to AP he got snubbed too.

So many more to debate but, this post has already hit the level of tl;dr
 
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Disgruntled Worker

Disgruntled Worker

Professional
Andyroddickfan said:
Holy ****! Hernandez arrested then released from pats! Wow!
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The great thing about the Pats though is they're one of the best at finding undervalued players and turning them into superstars. Randy Moss had one of his best seasons ever in 2007, Asante Samuel was a pro bowler, Wes Welker became a household name. Anyone who's read the book Moneyball knows what I'm talking about. Much like the Oakland A's in the early 2000's or the Spurs of today, they find the aggregate parts of multiple players and make it add up to replace a superstar.
 
jamesblakefan#1

jamesblakefan#1

G.O.A.T.
Disgruntled Worker said:
The great thing about the Pats though is they're one of the best at finding undervalued players and turning them into superstars. Randy Moss had one of his best seasons ever in 2007, Asante Samuel was a pro bowler, Wes Welker became a household name. Anyone who's read the book Moneyball knows what I'm talking about. Much like the Oakland A's in the early 2000's or the Spurs of today, they find the aggregate parts of multiple players and make it add up to replace a superstar.
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This hasn't always been true recently though. Have to remember they haven't won a SB since 2004-05, and had a few busts (Ocho, Haynesworth). And Brady isn't getting any younger.
 
A

Andyroddickfan

Rookie
Disgruntled Worker said:
The great thing about the Pats though is they're one of the best at finding undervalued players and turning them into superstars. Randy Moss had one of his best seasons ever in 2007, Asante Samuel was a pro bowler, Wes Welker became a household name. Anyone who's read the book Moneyball knows what I'm talking about. Much like the Oakland A's in the early 2000's or the Spurs of today, they find the aggregate parts of multiple players and make it add up to replace a superstar.
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Well, was not really looking at this from a football perspective but more from a what the hell is wrong with people perspective. Total head scratcher. I mean his life is set! Regarding the pats' ability to find players, it better happen soon because their receiving corps makes the jets receiving corps look like pro bowlers...
 
C

CCNM

Hall of Fame
Andyroddickfan said:
Oh snap. Hernandez has been charged with murder...
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Some poster on one of the news forums was joking that A. Hernandez was framed by Tim Tebow, so that Tim could compete for the TE spot!!!! :lol:
Made me laugh
It's sad that he (Hernandez) got into this situation....:?
 
Feña14

Feña14

G.O.A.T.
The Patriots are going to be pretty different next year. No Hernandez, Welker, Gronkowski's injuries etc.. They have one or two young players who could come in and do a job, then you throw in the Tebow factor. I guess they might look to run it a bit more, should be interesting.
 
stringertom

stringertom

Bionic Poster
CCNM said:
Some poster on one of the news forums was joking that A. Hernandez was framed by Tim Tebow, so that Tim could compete for the TE spot!!!! :lol:
Made me laugh
It's sad that he (Hernandez) got into this situation....:?
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Save the sadness for the victim's family. Hernandez is a sociopath and I will never feel sadness for him. This is not his first episode of deadly violence...he has a civil lawsuit pending for shooting a "friend" in the face and blinding him. How that case didn't wind up in an arrest is startling and tragic for the later recipient of his malevolance. The world will be a safer place with him behind bars, hopefully for the rest of his sick life.
 
L

LeeD

Bionic Poster
Pats.
Brady is the star. Defense is out to get Brady.
So, spread the formation wider, put Tebow in a wide slot position, behind the line of scrimmage, and one defender goes out there, while another two are partially occupied in support of the one.
Pash rush goes down, Brady smiles.
Tebow and Brady need to be on the same page. When D goes after Brady, Tebow can go out if his defender stacks the line, or take 2 steps back if his defender gives ground. Tebow throws almost good enough to spread the D.
 
Feña14

Feña14

G.O.A.T.
LeeD said:
Pats.
Brady is the star. Defense is out to get Brady.
So, spread the formation wider, put Tebow in a wide slot position, behind the line of scrimmage, and one defender goes out there, while another two are partially occupied in support of the one.
Pash rush goes down, Brady smiles.
Tebow and Brady need to be on the same page. When D goes after Brady, Tebow can go out if his defender stacks the line, or take 2 steps back if his defender gives ground. Tebow throws almost good enough to spread the D.
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Sudfeld has been great in training, so they say. Do you think they will try and run it a bit more next year?
 
L

LeeD

Bionic Poster
I'd think, short controlled quick passes are akin to running, usually gaining the required 4 yards per attempt.
Mannings do it, Montana did it, but Flacco and Kapernick dont do it as well.
But maybe Flacco and Colin had some great D too.
Seems NFL teams have been drafting OL men according to pass defense or run blocking criteria. Hard to do both well. You need pass protection for mid to long passes, and run blocking to run twice in 3 possessions.
Trend seems to be more and more big stiffs on OL, while the athletes of almost the simlar size play D.
 
stringertom

stringertom

Bionic Poster
LeeD said:
I'd think, short controlled quick passes are akin to running, usually gaining the required 4 yards per attempt.
Mannings do it, Montana did it, but Flacco and Kapernick dont do it as well.
But maybe Flacco and Colin had some great D too.
Seems NFL teams have been drafting OL men according to pass defense or run blocking criteria. Hard to do both well. You need pass protection for mid to long passes, and run blocking to run twice in 3 possessions.
Trend seems to be more and more big stiffs on the OL while the athletes of almost the simlar size play D.
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LOL...it's a conspiracy among all the GM's that resulted in a record nine big stiffs going in the first round. The biggest steal might be Menelik Watson, drafted in the second round by the Raiders with one year of college experience after immigrating from the UK to play basketball. He's a real stiff, eh? You'll get to watch his athleticism upclose and personal, LeeD!
 
L

LeeD

Bionic Poster
Perhaps you should look more closely at the drafted OL vs the D line draftees. Like who's more athletic, who's quicker, who runs faster, who jumps higher.
49'ers also are giving a track athlete a chance, but for the D line.
Reaction football is very different from first strike proactive football.
For 3 years, I played football for my high school. If I was playing reactive football, I'd be buried by my first full contact scrimmage. But I caused things to happen, some good, some bad, but always forced the action. At well under 110 lbs., and shorter than 5'5", reactive football wouldn't garner me waterboy status.
The athletes are allowed to take the initiative, while the big stiffs react to their actions.
 
Feña14

Feña14

G.O.A.T.
stringertom said:
LOL...it's a conspiracy among all the GM's that resulted in a record nine big stiffs going in the first round. The biggest steal might be Menelik Watson, drafted in the second round by the Raiders with one year of college experience after immigrating from the UK to play basketball. He's a real stiff, eh? You'll get to watch his athleticism upclose and personal, LeeD!
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UK? Uh-oh, he'll be tearing it up in the next few years then.
 
L

LeeD

Bionic Poster
Actually, the 49'ers also are allowing a Brit onto their tryouts. Dude is 6'6" and 310 lbs., lean and can standing long jump over 10 feet!
 
Feña14

Feña14

G.O.A.T.
LeeD said:
Actually, the 49'ers also are allowing a Brit onto their tryouts. Dude is 6'6" and 310 lbs., lean and can standing long jump over 10 feet!
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Is that Okoye? He was in the Olympic discus event I think, also he was a promising rugby player.

British sport is going through a really good spell at the moment. The Olympics last year, Murray showing no signs of letting up, the cricket team is winning, the rugby sides are doing very well etc..

We're producing some great sports people for some reason, it's funny then that at this time, the sport most people care about (soccer) is in dire straits.
 
L

LeeD

Bionic Poster
I don't care about soccer.
What separates us from the apes is opposable thumbs, and the use of.
Just like I don't care for boogie boarding, no matter how fun it is or how hairy the waves can be ridden. Man was meant to stand up.
:):):)
 
jamesblakefan#1

jamesblakefan#1

G.O.A.T.
Tebow won't play tight end this year, period point blank. The guy hasn't played TE at any level and Belichick isn't stupid enough to put the faith of his offense out of Brady's hands and into Tebow's, on any level. Stop it with the nonsense.
 
stringertom

stringertom

Bionic Poster
LeeD said:
Perhaps you should look more closely at the drafted OL vs the D line draftees. Like who's more athletic, who's quicker, who runs faster, who jumps higher.
49'ers also are giving a track athlete a chance, but for the D line.
Reaction football is very different from first strike proactive football.
For 3 years, I played football for my high school. If I was playing reactive football, I'd be buried by my first full contact scrimmage. But I caused things to happen, some good, some bad, but always forced the action. At well under 110 lbs., and shorter than 5'5", reactive football wouldn't garner me waterboy status.
The athletes are allowed to take the initiative, while the big stiffs react to their actions.
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Total BS, dude! At the snap, OLers have to be the initiators to succeed and have to be able to react to the various techniques of the defender(s) they are assigned to or wind up in the zone they are responsible for. GMs look for agile, hostile and mobile players on both sides of the ball. To label these guys as "stiffs" shows total ignorance. There's nothing more effective for moving the chain than a 6'4" 300+ lb. pulling guard running interference for a RB when not dropping back in pass protection for the QB. The NFL war is won in the trenches on both sides of the ball, not solely by stud defenders. It takes athletes at every position!
 
L

LeeD

Bionic Poster
Tebow himself won't play TE. Would you? Like having a 6'5" 300 lbs athletic guy ready to tear your head off?
Tebow plays a skill position, not a masher's position.
Slotback halfway out wide is the natural position for a big, strong runner who can option throw and catch. That way, he's matched up with either an OLB or a strong safety. He matches up with OLB's and is much bigger than any safety.
 
L

LeeD

Bionic Poster
You only need to look at the makeup of the lines, on every team, to deduce you might be wrong.
Overly tall, fat white boy OT, vs thin, quicker, much more athletic black DE or DT, depending on D formation.
IF, but you didn't, play football in high school, you would know they pick tall white boys with little athletic skills for OL, while the quicker, more agile, and more aggressive athletes play D.
Talking lineman here.
Linebackers are the alpha males on the football field, for the past 15 years.
 
L

LeeD

Bionic Poster
Did I say Tebow is in every snap?
Brady needs more time, most of the time.
Tebow can spread the D, especially taking a OLB out into the slot.
Selected plays, when the pass rush is a comin'.....
 
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