Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
I'd hardly call winning a slam, reaching at least one more final, winning the WTF plus 3 Masters 1000s a subpar season.
mattosgrant
Banned
I don't know what the general perception was here, but nobody I talked to felt Federer would reach 20. I also never heard commentators call for 20.
gn
G.O.A.T.
Djoker looks dominant. But to be honest, his level has dropped post-Wimbledon this year. He has not played that well in Canada, Cincy and USO. He lost couple of tourneys in Final and even this USO he did not win it in convincing manner. Had it been Murray in the Final, Djokovic surely would have had trouble. We will see how the remaining few tourneys pans out in the remainder of the season. That will tell the story of 2016 and 2017. Only thing that can help him from now on is his net game. I don't think he will win 9 GS in next three years. 19 is a wishful thinking. 
His best chance lies at AO alone. He probably won't win Wimbledon or USO(may be once). FO is out of question. He will turn 29 next May. Who is the oldest FO champion btw?
His best chance lies at AO alone. He probably won't win Wimbledon or USO(may be once). FO is out of question. He will turn 29 next May. Who is the oldest FO champion btw?
duaneeo
Legend
The issue is how dominant a #1 Djokovic has been. In 2012 he temporarily lost the #1 ranking to Federer, and lost to 3 different players at the slams. This after totally dominating the field in 2011. In 2014 he lost to 3 different players at the slams, and the YE #1 wasn't clinched until the WTFs.
Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
Bloody hell, and I thought I was pessimistic about Novak's chances!Djoker looks dominant. But to be honest, his level has dropped post-Wimbledon this year. He has not played that well in Canada, Cincy and USO. He lost couple of tourneys in Final and even this USO he did not win it in convincing manner. Had it been Murray in the Final, Djokovic surely would have had trouble. We will see how the remaining few tourneys pans out in the remainder of the season. That will tell the story of 2016 and 2017. Only thing that can help him from now on is his net game. I don't think he will win 9 GS in next three years. 19 is a wishful thinking.
Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
I'm not saying he was dominant in those seasons, but they were hardly subpar either.
tipsa...don'tlikehim!
Talk Tennis Guru
Everyone had its own perception indeed. when I was a fan of Federer back in 2006 my personal prediction was 16, others thought 17, others predicted 18... 18 is the number I heard the most from commentators - it was before the internet being all over the place, now with Twitter and Facebook, blogs etc you have so-called ''experts'' everywhere.
As for Djokovic, 15 is an achievable target, I guess it is his personal target for now.
gn
G.O.A.T.
I just made you look like over-optimistic for a change.Bloody hell, and I thought I was pessimistic about Novak's chances!
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Nathaniel_Near
Guest
He wasn't a "subpar" #1 in 2012 and 2014. His points total and winning record was still quite impressive, but he didn't dominate the Slams. Even at his lowest points in the last 4-5 years, he's still been rather high up there.
duaneeo
Legend
Nole's dominance as a #1 in 2012 was definitely subpar, more so considering the drop in his dominance from the year before. In 2011 he not only broke the Federer/Nadal stranglehold on dominance, but he beat them 11-1. In 2012 Roger was a 8-year veteran and Nadal a 7-year veteran as a top-2 player. Just like in 2011, the newly-in-his-prime, healthy, confident Djokovic should have ruled the show in 2012.
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Nathaniel_Near
Guest
2012 is one of the strongest years in recent history, and Nole still ended up #1 anyway. It's not like his points total for 2012 was lower than Hewitt's was for his two years at number one or numerous other players.. it just wasn't at the dizzying heights of 2011, and people are spoiled recently due to the amount of dominant seasons that have been produced by Fedal since 2004.
Poisoned Slice
Bionic Poster
The ''majoring in minors'' has really backfired. Now we have threads saying Novak 18 slams, not a problem.I'm thinking, why not? lol Crazy world indeed. I should know better. He is just so hot right now. It all points towards a fourth round Australian Open defeat to Rafa.
mattosgrant
Banned
I thought his 2012 play in slams was subpar. At Wimbledon he was quite bad. At Roland Garros he was subpar. At the U.S Open I thought he was playing really well, and it was just a shame it was such a windy day in the final (granted Murray had to deal with this too, so I am not speculating on the outcome).
In 2013 I thought he played very well, even in the slams, apart from that Wimbledon final disaster vs Murray. His level of play in his 2 slam losses to Nadal was quite high, just wasn't able to produce the big points and win them which cost him both matches.
2014 was the most frusterating of all 3 years though as on the regular tour he was practically back to 2011 esque dominance, but in the slams it just didn't quite happen. I do think the only place his level was down was at Roland Garros though, especialy in the final. He ran into hot Wawrinka, and out of his mind Nishikori in the other 2 majors, and was probably a couple key points away in both.
Then again Nathaniel_Near is right, that 2012 and 2013 would be excellent years for anyone else, and excellent #1 years compared to the average. People were just spoiled by Federer's run of dominance.
SpicyCurry1990
Hall of Fame
An understatement to say the least.
I don't think people realize Djokovic's 2012 is actually currently the 5th highest point total since 1990 (I haven't converted #1 years before that yet, and Djokovic 15 will bump it out of the top 5 this year):
1-Fed 06
2-Djok 11
3-Fed 07
4-Nadal 13
5-Djok 12
Novak's 12 is higher than a bunch of 2 slam seasons like Courier 92, Sampras 93/94/95/97, Agassi 99, Fed 05/09, Nadal 08 and even a couple of 3 slam seasons like Fed 04 and Nadal 10! (and while we are at it his 13 season is above all of those 2 slam seasons besides Fed 05 as well!)
In fact if he converted that set point in the 1st set tiebreak of the USO 12 final vs Murray (and won the match 7-6 5-7 6-3 6-2), his 12 season would have slightly edged his 11 season as the #2 scoring season since 1990 behind only Fed 06! Top 5 season in 25 years and one point off from top 2 is "subpar"
duaneeo
Legend
But with his all-court/all-surface game, Djokovic proved in 2011 that he has the skills to spoil us with a run of dominance similar to that of Federer's. After 2011, who thought for a second that Nole wouldn't win multiple slams in a season for 3 years?
Russeljones
Talk Tennis Guru
We're still waiting for that run. When is it going to start? Consecutive major finals, consecutive finals won, consecutive matches won, consecutive matches per surface won. When is this run going to start?
Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
Great post Spicy. I'd completely forgotten until recently that Djokovic had a couple of set points in that 1st set tiebreak in the 2012 USO final. And considering Murray's never beaten him after losing the opening set you could argue that Novak was indeed just the one point away from another multi-slam season that year. Having said that, he was also one point away from going out to Fed the year before so I guess it all balances itself out in the end.An understatement to say the least.
I don't think people realize Djokovic's 2012 is actually currently the 5th highest point total since 1990 (I haven't converted #1 years before that yet, and Djokovic 15 will bump it out of the top 5 this year):
1-Fed 06
2-Djok 11
3-Fed 07
4-Nadal 13
5-Djok 12
Novak's 12 is higher than a bunch of 2 slam seasons like Courier 92, Sampras 93/94/95/97, Agassi 99, Fed 05/09, Nadal 08 and even a couple of 3 slam seasons like Fed 04 and Nadal 10! (and while we are at it his 13 season is above all of those 2 slam seasons besides Fed 05 as well!)
In fact if he converted that set point in the 1st set tiebreak of the USO 12 final vs Murray (and won the match 7-6 5-7 6-3 6-2), his 12 season would have slightly edged his 11 season as the #2 scoring season since 1990 behind only Fed 06! Top 5 season in 25 years and one point off from top 2 is "subpar"
Out of interest, does Novak have the record amount of points so far in 2015?
SpicyCurry1990
Hall of Fame
Right I suppose it does balance, but you know my feelings on that Murray match (short rest with SF day before + wind + draw opening up for Murray) and in spite of all of that he was just a point away from winning it still.
Interestingly enough he was also arguably 1 point away from his 2013 being #4 (the net touch at FO 13, assuming winning that point leads to him beating Ferrer in the final). If those 2 points had gone differently we could have been looking at 11/12/13/15 all being top 6 seasons along with fed 06/07. But alas.
No, 2015 Novak is above Fed 06 to this point, but is 2nd to Djokovic2011
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Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
Haha, I see what you did there!Right I suppose it does balance, but you know my feelings on that Murray match (short rest with SF day before + wind + draw opening up for Murray) and in spite of all of that he was just a point away from winning it still.
Interestingly enough he was also arguably 1 point away from his 2013 being #4 (the net touch at FO 13, assuming winning that point leads to him beating Ferrer in the final). If those 2 points had gone differently we could have been looking at 11/12/13/15 all being top 6 seasons along with fed 06/07. But alas.
No, 2015 Novak is above Fed 06 to this point, but is 2nd to Djokovic2011
Someone said on another forum that Novak is currently on 16145 points which is why I just assumed it was a new record. Maybe I got my wires crossed.
V
VexlanderPrime
Guest
You sir are crazy. I doubt anyone, even a patently superior player 40 years from now will ever be the same caliber in your eyes.
The_18th_Slam
Hall of Fame
It is ok.
duaneeo
Legend
Again, we're talking dominance. Djokovic having the 5th highest point total in 2012 since 1990 doesn't mean that he dominated the field in 2012. He won one slam that year...same as Nadal, Federer, and Murray. He won 3 masters that year...same as Roger and just one more than Nadal. He was the #1 player that year, but a dominant #1? Please.
Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
You forgot to mention the WTF. He also reached 3 Masters finals on top of the 3 he won.
SpicyCurry1990
Hall of Fame
Haha, I see what you did there!
Two different things.
Novak's 16145 points is the all time record for ATP points, but that comprises what he did from Beijing 14-WTF 14 + 2015 since its 52 weeks performance.
Novak's 2015 alone up to this point in the season has scored 12785 points which is second to his 13110 points at this point in 2011, but above Fed's 12245 to this point in 2006.
Ultimately the "record to this point in a season" doesn't really mean much, while the all time ATP record means something though. In any case he has both
duaneeo
Legend
Nole won and Roger made the finals. That ONE result made the different of Djokovic winning most of the big tournaments instead of Federer. You're helping my argument.
Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
Ah, I see what you mean now. Thanks for clearing it up Spicy.Two different things.
Novak's 16145 points is the all time record for ATP points, but that comprises what he did from Beijing 14-WTF 14 + 2015 since its 52 weeks performance.
Novak's 2015 alone up to this point in the season has scored 12785 points which is second to his 13110 points at this point in 2011, but above Fed's 12245 to this point in 2006.
Ultimately the "record to this point in a season" doesn't really mean much, while the all time ATP record means something though. In any case he has both
SpicyCurry1990
Hall of Fame
Ah, I see what you mean now. Thanks for clearing it up Spicy.
Ya the mark to end the season with the most points is Fed 06's 15760. So Novak is 2975 away. WTF + 2 Masters + Beijing is 4000 available points, so he can afford to leave about 1000 on the table and get it. He could also technically play Valencia or something too, since he can qualify another event if he wants (Add an extra 500 points possible) and even if he does that he would still have only played the same # of events as Fed did in 06.
I havent checked to see if Fed's 06 is higher in point total than McEnore 84, Connors 74, Laver 69 etc so again this is only 1990+ on THAT aspect. However, given that 16145 is a record ATP total and the previous record was Fed's 06 YE, it seems likely Connors 74/McEnore 84 were both below that. Since Laver 69 came before the ATP era, that one is still unclear.
mbm0912
Hall of Fame
These candidates you speak of. Please enlighten me.
Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
Here's hoping Novak has another 2013 end to the season rather than a 2011 one!
SpicyCurry1990
Hall of Fame
Here's hoping Novak has another 2013 end to the season rather than a 2011 one!
Id be shocked if he had an ending like 2011. In 2011 by that point he was pretty much done both physically and mentally. His shoulder injury in Cincy exacerbated in the DC match vs Del Po really did him in physically. I think he pushed through to win USO but with no slams left and Serbia out of the DC, I think he mentally wasn't dialed in anymore either and got complacent (understandably so considering he had done in 9 months more than he had in his entire career to that point).
Now in 2015, I think he is physically in better shape (hasn't showed any signs of injury) and wants to keep that form going because he is looking at the bigger picture and hence mentally will be fit too. He knows now that say he records almost no pts in the fall, that even a slight dip in form from AO-USO next year could leave him losing the #1 rank for a few weeks like in 2012.
Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
Yeah, I really hope he doesn't just half ass it for the rest of the year now that he's had another 3 slam season and has already wrapped up the YE#1 ranking. I'd imagine if he wins 2/4 remaining tournaments there's a great chance of him holding the #1 ranking until at least Wimbledon, perhaps even later than that.
okdude1992
Hall of Fame
The lost generation really screwed up the natural order of things. I can only hope we will have some new contenders in the next 3 years. The health of the game depends on that. Pretty sick of the current top 10 honestly: It's like the same story on loop every tournament.
Back OT, Djokovic is indeed extremely dominant this year. Two years now he's won 3 slams...Super impressive results, and it looks likely he will eclipse Nadal IMO.
SpicyCurry1990
Hall of Fame
Ya even if he had dipped in form but still done reasonably well in the fall of 2011 like say:
Played Beijing and won it (which hes done every year since)
Played Shanghai and lost in the finals to Murray (Murray took out Fed there and those are the only 2 guys beating him there since)
Won a second match at the WTF, ended up #2 in the group and lost the SF to Fed
And picked up 1 more win (either over Nishikori at Basil to lose the final to Fed or over Tsonga at Paris instead of giving him a withdrawl)
He would not have dropped the #1 ranking all season in 2012 and thats with Fed holding 4 Masters + WTF + Wimb at the time and SF in the other 3 slams.
I'd say if Djokovic protects a reasonable amount of points in the fall, he has a good chance to join Connors/Lendl/Fed next year as players to go wire-to-wire world #1 two years in a row.
F
Fedfan34
Guest
He's a dominant #1 in the manner of Sampras and more dominant than Nadal. Of course he isn't the absolute tyrant that Fed was from 2003-2007, but Fed was the exception rather than the norm. Not being Fed over a 4 year span doesn't mean you weren't dominant.
Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
Couldn't have said it better myself babe!
F
Fedfan34
Guest
And whether Tsonga, Berdych, Soderling >>>> Nishikori, Dimitrov, and Raonic is also something we will learn in the next 3 or 4 years, don't you think?
Or not.
Yeah, is that why he made 6 consecutive Slam finals from the 2008 US Open to the 2010 Australian Open, winning 4, and losing the other two in the 5th sets?
That is irrelevant to Federer, because Federer didn't even face Nadal in 2010 at the Slams. What did Nadal have to do with Federer's Slam results in 2010?
Except Federer had better Slam results than Djokovic at the same age. Federer made 6 consecutive Slam finals, winning 4. Djokovic made just 5 Slam finals, winning 4.
Yes, he was instead getting owned by Murray in Slam finals
Despite your admirable attempts at trolling, the poster you're quoting made some good points. Even die hard Fed fans would have a hard time arguing that Fed's slam wins were in lieu of Nadal rather than in spite of him.
F
Fedfan34
Guest
Couldn't have said it better myself babe!
Now I'm back to babe status again? You get around a lot don't you, sweets?
Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
Not as much as I'd like to haha.
The_18th_Slam
Hall of Fame
Despite your attempt at relevance, I'm not going to pay any attention to you when you can't even present your case like a rational person.
Doctor/Lawyer Red Devil
Talk Tennis Guru
His results in the remainder of 2011 after US Open were awful, but he won Australian Open 2012 the hard way. Not to mention he is still here dominating again 4 years after that memorable season.
I have no idea who is the record holder, but Agassi won his only FO and completed Career Grand Slam at 29 years of age.
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Fedfan34
Guest
23-10
19 matches since 2007
15-4 Nadal in that period
6 slam matches played, 6-0 Nadal
From 2008-2010 stretch, 5 grand slam matches played
5-0 Nadal
2009-2010 Slam wins for Federer: 3
Nadal encounters at Grand Slams Won by Federer:0
Pretty relevant, no?
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The_18th_Slam
Hall of Fame
Relevant how? Did Nadal get any trophies, ranking points, or prize money for his H2H against Federer? No? So it's not a relevant achievement. Try again.
jm1980
Talk Tennis Guru
When did Fed beat Nadal in a Slam from 2008 to 2010?
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Fedfan34
Guest
These stats make it clear that Federer won his trophies post 2007 by avoiding Nadal, rather than overcoming him. So to say he was a truly dominant world #1 is excluding the fact that in order for that to be the case, his high profile rival had to be absent.
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Fedfan34
Guest
Ah thanks mate. Let me go back and fix that.
The_18th_Slam
Hall of Fame
Correction. Federer made those Slam finals, and took all comers. It was Nadal who avoided Federer by losing early. Common sense can't be so uncommon, can it?
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Fedfan34
Guest
I knew I shouldn't have Fed the troll.
The_18th_Slam
Hall of Fame
Please explain to me how Federer avoided Nadal at the 2009 French Open. I'd love to hear this.
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