High Balls driving me back or I need to learn to take early!

[plum]

Listen Folks I know as well as you do there are plenty of threads about this in some shape or form. But sorry I need to start another.

The situation is this: My main and pretty much only partner right now doesn't hit with depth and is just learning spin.

I regularly beat him 6-0 6-1 maybe 6-2 on a good day for him or a day when I am tired.

Every time I even practice with an older maybe seasoned player who hits with depth and spin and maybe moon balls I am screwed it seems.

I feel like an idiot either I am against the fence or I step in and mis-time it or I try to take it at head height and hit it long.

I pretty much hit with an extreme eastern/semi-western when I can but I just do not know what to do with the high bouncers.

I really would rather not run backwards 6 -10 feet since I am used to staying at the baseline but if this is the only option then I 'd better learn how soon.
I don't run backward well, especially to my backhand side.

I really want to play other players and feel that this issue is the difference between a 4.0 and a 5.0.

How do I deal with this situation?

To me it almost seems as though one has to start their swing at the bounce if one wants to take it early enough to hit a regular waist-high groundstroke off of this kind of ball!

Otherwise I am going to run back to the fence or: one last option:

I never see the pros do this but why not a short 6.5 ft overhead slice.

So much easier than trying a jumping forehand!

P.S. Even Shoulder High Balls are awkward! So what do I do with these Moon Balls!

 

[LeeD]

Stand in, turn sideways, pronate fully thru your stroke to add needed topspin, aim for the sidelines.

 

[Ducker]

Try condensing your swing when you take a ball right off the baseline and your standing on the baseline.

 

[UCSF2012]

Learn to hit shots higher in your strike zone. Then, once you adjust to the spin and timing, take it a bit earlier. Option 2, keep your shots low, because it's harder to hit loopy shots off low balls. This means block it back flat, or slice it low.

You cannot take the ball on the drop, because you'll be at the fence.

 

[Cindysphinx]

I will tell you the drill my pro taught me to work on this.

He would rally with me, and I was not allowed to step behind the baseline. He would aim his shots very deep. I learned to shorten my backswing, get close to the bounce of the ball, take it in front, watch the ball closely, stay low, and keep it low over the net. All of that takes away a lot of your opponent's time.

Now I do this drill weekly with my practice partner. It has made a huge difference in my game, as I have something I can do with moonballs or deep shots other than retreating. It was also worked miracles with my service return, as I am more comfortable dealing with them by moving forward and taking them on the rise.

Hope that drill helps you. It certainly helped me.

 

[Maui19]

I will tell you the drill my pro taught me to work on this.

He would rally with me, and I was not allowed to step behind the baseline. He would aim his shots very deep. I learned to shorten my backswing, get close to the bounce of the ball, take it in front, watch the ball closely, stay low, and keep it low over the net. All of that takes away a lot of your opponent's time.

Now I do this drill weekly with my practice partner. It has made a huge difference in my game, as I have something I can do with moonballs or deep shots other than retreating. It was also worked miracles with my service return, as I am more comfortable dealing with them by moving forward and taking them on the rise.

Hope that drill helps you. It certainly helped me.

Yep this is great advice. You need to practice defending the baseline and get comfortable hitting balls on the rise--and I'm not talking about just bunting them back. You need to learn how to drive these shots crisply with spin and depth. Once you get this skill on the baseline, it will REALLY help your return of service game.

But practice is the key here.

 

[1HBH Rocks]

Sometimes, you can't do anything too fancy and I am afraid only few amateurs will be dangerous enough at the net for you to even bother about backing up a bit. However, I wouldn't back up to the point where you even let the ball drop... give yourself some space and slam the high ball flat. My friend used to have this habit of throwing moon balls, so I learnt how to hit on high balls and I even learnt how to hit a scissor kick forehand so that I could even be offensive when needed.

There is NO magic solution. You need to be able to hit both of your ground strokes on whatever height your opponent might force you to play it at. If not, it becomes an impediment to your court positioning as any ball leaving your comfort zone will force you to concede more space than required. Of course, you aren't forced to hit on the rise to the point of hitting half volleys from the baseline a la Federer as this can be tricky, but you should be able to at least do something with high balls once they've bounced high. It's not any harder to hit than your regular ground stroke... it just asks of you to hit many of them until you get the trick of timing your movement on these flying puppies.

Just to tell people, you aren't forced to be offensive off every shot... you just need to be sufficiently good to keep the rally going -- and, if possible, to hit just good enough so your opponent can't be offensive without taking big risks. You get a high ball, then concede some space, move and aim for a nice cross-court. It's neutralizing, efficient, easy. Some players are afraid to start a rally over and begin to build the point from zero after a few shots, but being patient can give you a monstrous edge.

 

[plum]

Thanks for all the advice I appreciate it!

I'm still trying to figure out why a modified Low overhead isn't a viable option.
I don't see pros doing this very often, but I find the overhead racquet position to feel a lot more natural off of a 7 ft ball then a high forehand.
Now granted a 6 ft ball (I am 6ft) may be a little low for that kind of shot, but I am finding that it is hard to get my racquet into position correctly when the ball gets high. My shoulder doesn't seem to like it either.

Now I realize I need to practice, but it seems like for me if I had to chose I would either like to scoop it up nice an early or wait and try to pound it fully flat and down.
But trying to actually hit a head high forehand using the normal forehand swing path seems like a real ***** to me. I'm sure I am probably starting my swing to low for one; but the angle of my racquet at impact is usually off; this leads to either hitting long or into the net. This is why I have suggested (with no approval) in the past why not take these balls with an overhead/continental grip -- go for a flat shot --instead of trying to put topspin on it since it may not even need much -- or more importantly since there is no more room left in the shoulder joint to make the topspin swing-path when hitting at that height.

Maybe I have 43 year old tight shoulders.
One more thing, I have seen, at least on the woman's tour a shot that looks like a cross between an overhead and a high forehand. The arm is at around 130 on the clock and rather straight. Now I am not particularly macho so I am curious about this shot lol.

 

[Cindysphinx]

Yep this is great advice. You need to practice defending the baseline and get comfortable hitting balls on the rise--and I'm not talking about just bunting them back. You need to learn how to drive these shots crisply with spin and depth. Once you get this skill on the baseline, it will REALLY help your return of service game.

But practice is the key here.

Yeah.

The hardest part for me isn't hitting the ball on the rise in this drill. The part that needs the most practice is keeping it low over the net. Smart players will often follow a topspin moonball to net, so you can't just loft back any old shot. Also, you have to keep the ball low in doubles. If you keep it low, even if it is a bit short-ish, it is a tricky ball because it gets back to the opponent so quickly.

As for trying to hit an overhead off of a ball at baseline that is not high enough . . . I dunno. I love it when I see my opponents trying to figure out how to do that. They often hit it long.

 

[LuckyR]

I guess I am a bit confused. Your normal partner is just learning to hit with spin and you beat him 0 & 1 or maybe 2. He sounds like a rank beginner... that you are losing a game or two to.

I would not be too hard on yourself that other players who can hit consistent deep balls with spin are giving you trouble, since they sound like they are a step or so above you, minimum.

If you have a semi Western grip and are under 40, you likely have Modern strokes so hitting shoulder height balls should be your bread and butter. I get that your new partner (who is likely better than you) is giving you some shots that are troubling your game, but putting him aside, if another, perhaps lesser player hits you shots that are perhaps bit shorter in the court but also are shoulder height, I would work on that type of shot since if you play younger competition you are going to get those type of shots all day long and you should be handling them with ease.

 

[LeeD]

The reason few players, especially the top players, hit a "low overhead" is that shot doesn't allow an easy topspin ball, but hits flat or slicel, which often go long or into the net.
A topspin groundstroke is what most of you practice the most. It is safe, is practiced a lot, and it hits with topspin, the key component.
Few players are flexible and quick enough to run under the ball, then allow it to bounce to directly over their heads to make a topspin overhead off a groundstroked incoming ball.

 

[6-2/6-4/6-0]

Another option that guys like McEnroe, Agassi and Chang used to use was to come forward on the looping topspin reply and hit a swinging volley. If you have time to move forward and can get 3-4 steps inside the baseline and take the ball above waist height, I would consider that.

I used to be the guy that would end up running 8-10 feet behind the baseline to deal with people's arcing topspin shots, then I started forcing myself to prepare early and take those balls on the rise (it seemed like adjusting to the mentality of consistently attacking the ball was harder than any mechanical changes in my stroke), then I started pushing even more to get those balls at waist-level or a bit higher out of the air, inside the court. On a good day I can do it fairly effectively off either side, but on the forehand it's solid pretty consistently regardless of how the rest of my game is going.

In truth, I believe that heavy-spin, looping balls are more dangerous after they bounce, so I have found getting them before they 'detonate on impact' is the better move - at least for me...

 

[plum]

Hey Great advice, thanks...

I do love taking them out of the air and am not too bad at it.

One of the things that is perplexing me about taking looping topspin shots on the rise is When to actually start the swing.

Just starting out it seems I wait for the bounce and then try to decide, but then it is too late -- no time for decisions...

Lately I am thinking HUH maybe I need to start my swing right at the ball bounce because by the time the swing has come though the ball is already at least off of the ground at knee height.

Not that I have a particularly long swing/back swing.

And it seems if one wants to half volley it right off the baseline then one needs to start their swing before IT actually bounces.

Now how in the world to get this consistently I can only imagine takes a lot of practice.

The thing is with half volley one can come pretty close to scooping it off the ground.

However, when trying to get a waist high shot there is a lot more room to misjudge it it seems. It almost seems as though you have to guess.

If anyone has a good suggestion as to who to watch take the ball early to learn as a good example then please recommend thanks!

 

[6-2/6-4/6-0]

I think that it's most effective to have your racket back before the ball bounces. I also find it easier to take the ball right off the bounce - either as a half-volley style shot, or at least around knee level. You can take so much of the pace off the incoming shot and really only need to re-direct it, best of all you don't need a lot of topspin to keep it in the court. This all takes the maximum amount of time from your opponent.

Using this method you can take the first looping ball and put your opponent on a dead run by directing it to the open court, you'll probably get a weaker reply that you can step in on and take the swinging volley. If you don't put that away for a clean winner or a forced error, you'll definitely be in the driver's seat to close out the point.

 

[plum]

Hey I just remembered the other thing that I forgot earlier in my post.

Watching/keeping EYE on ball is extremely difficult at the bounce.

I'm sure it is even more difficult for people like myself whose watching of the ball is slightly peripheral.

I guess this could be a good exercise too improve eye-on-ball capability!

 

[trenzterra]

Try to do your racquet take back a little higher than normal. The swinging arc should still be roughly similar.

Remember to hit off your torso instead of arming the ball! At lower height it may be technically incorrect but still workable, but it is much harder to get power arming the ball at a higher height.