Serve diagnosis during a match

[johnmccabe]

I had a weird breakdown in my serve today. The first set, it was great. Flat slice kick all worked as I command with couple of aces. The second set, I kept double faulting on deuce side, but not much of a problem on ad court. Sometimes it went long for 6 inches and sometimes dumped it into the net. I could tell when I slowed down the swing too much and tried to correct for that. I could tell when I tossed to 1 o'clock to hit a kick serve and tried to correct for that. but still that set slipped away very fast.

Does anyone have a system of self-diagnosis when your serve is failing during a match? Toss, swing, leg drive, or not watching the contact? What are the most common problems that I should check first?

 

[Cashman]

When my serve goes off the boil it is usually because I am getting lazy/careless/tired.

Slowing things right down between points, ensuring I am getting a good ball toss, and focusing on getting good leg drive up into the ball generally fixes things.

 

[socallefty]

My technique won’t change for no reason during a match. So, if my serve % goes down, the reasons are usually because of the opponent, the conditions or getting more tired or overconfident/bored. When balls get older or the opponent gets used to your serve/patterns, they return better and that puts more stress later in a match on the server whose % goes down. The opponent might change their return position or strategy causing you to get out of your comfort zone in terms of target locations and spins and again the % goes down. The wind, sun glare, twilight conditions, increase/decrease of temperature all can change during a match and can require adjustments.

Lastly, you might have become too overconfident or relaxed after winning a set resulting in a quick deficit in the 2nd set and then tightened up on serves trying to come back in the set - it is a lot easier to serve well with a lead than a deficit. Or instead of sticking to a couple of serve spins/locations that were working, you might have become cocky and gone for more variety or harder serves and that can throw off rhythm.

If your serve technique is not stable and capable of going awry for no reason, then you just need to practice more and become a better server.

 

[nyta2]

I had a weird breakdown in my serve today. The first set, it was great. Flat slice kick all worked as I command with couple of aces. The second set, I kept double faulting on deuce side, but not much of a problem on ad court. Sometimes it went long for 6 inches and sometimes dumped it into the net. I could tell when I slowed down the swing too much and tried to correct for that. I could tell when I tossed to 1 o'clock to hit a kick serve and tried to correct for that. but still that set slipped away very fast.

Does anyone have a system of self-diagnosis when your serve is failing during a match? Toss, swing, leg drive, or not watching the contact? What are the most common problems that I should check first?

my self diagnosis checklist:
1. am i hitting up?
2. am i getting spin on hit?

if i'm missing into net... my next serve must go long... typical problem for me is no shoulder tilt which could be a result of a lower toss (because i'm tense/nervous/etc...)
once i missing long (that's a good thing), make sure i'm adding spin... typical problems for me: trying to make contact too high (eg. trying to get "on top of the ball"), and not using my legs to drive up and through contact (usually because of fatigue, or tension).
tension is a killer for me... in general, when i'm "scared" it's natural to limit movement (eg. think of a mouse trying to be still)... in tennis terms, for me, it means my motions become "smaller" (shorter toss, no knee bend, slower swing, etc...)... so i often have to remind myself, especially on big points, to be brave (eg. hit it like i practice, vs. "just get it in") - because even if i do "just get it in", against anyone decent, they will put me on defense on the return anyway.

then i refine from there. if i'm out of sync, i dare not ever hit a flat serve... if i'm really out of sync i just go for middle of the box, before trying to go to the bh (or weaker wing), etc...

 

[ShaunS]

Self-diagnosis mid-match is a bit of a crapshoot. This is why you're encouraged to control the variables by having a consistent routine. For example, when the previous point ends, switch the racket to your offhand as you return to the service position. Focus on what your next serve will be. Bounce the ball the same number of times, and so on.

This helps us to reproduce the same behavior, and besides training your body to reproduce the same results it makes troubleshooting a little easier. If I'm missing serves, my most common problems are:

• "Hitting up" on the ball - when you get tired it's common to start swinging with all arm, and then everything gets sloppier
• Toss location - especially true if you're mixing up serves as you said. I really shouldn't be moving my toss location around between flat and kick serves unless I'm doing something odd.

I'm hesitant to take guesses at someone's problem without seeing you play, but I'll say a couple things do sound complicated. You've mentioned changing toss location, swing speed, and serve type. There's certainly good logic in the last one, but I'd be cautious with the first two. Mixing up swing speed is a recipe for disaster, especially with everything else going on in that situation. This might not seem particularly insightful, but rather than specifically attempting to tweak physical aspects go for a hard reboot on the brain.
You served effectively in the first set which means you can do it. Do your best to reassure yourself mentally that you've got the faith in your technique, step up, and try to hit a "normal" serve. By that I mean, no adjustments, don't go for something particularly soft/easy, just hit a normal first serve and see what happens. The reasoning is that I expect you've made so many adjustments that you're struggling to return to what works for you. For me that's a simple kick serve to a right-handers backhand. That's the shot I'm going for if I'm struggling, and I'm going to try and hit it the same way I've practiced hundreds of thousands of times. If I tried to hit it slower, I'm now going for a shot I've rarely used, and that's unnecessary difficulty.

The one caveat here is that if your normal serve goes in less than 75% of the time then that's what you need to work on. I want to say that number ramps up pretty quickly the higher level of competition you're in too.

 

[WhiteOut]

I had a weird breakdown in my serve today. The first set, it was great. Flat slice kick all worked as I command with couple of aces. The second set, I kept double faulting on deuce side, but not much of a problem on ad court. Sometimes it went long for 6 inches and sometimes dumped it into the net. I could tell when I slowed down the swing too much and tried to correct for that. I could tell when I tossed to 1 o'clock to hit a kick serve and tried to correct for that. but still that set slipped away very fast.

Does anyone have a system of self-diagnosis when your serve is failing during a match? Toss, swing, leg drive, or not watching the contact? What are the most common problems that I should check first?

When I start consistently hitting the tape or lower on first serve, for me first thing is to make sure I'm not dropping my shoulder after the toss. I focus on keeping my tossing hand extended upward, so that I force myself to go *up* and strike the ball at apex before it starts to drop back to earth. This alone usually dials it back in for me.

 

[FuzzyYellowBalls]

Toss or racket face at impact. However, whatever system there is, you have to know what is going on and without more of an idea, things aren't looking good for you if you only know the results of your serves but not much about why. Maybe serve for half an hour or an hour and see if it happens again, then really try and figure out why?

 

[johnmccabe]

My technique won’t change for no reason during a match. So, if my serve % goes down, the reasons are usually because of the opponent, the conditions or getting more tired or overconfident/bored. When balls get older or the opponent gets used to your serve/patterns, they return better and that puts more stress later in a match on the server whose % goes down. The opponent might change their return position or strategy causing you to get out of your comfort zone in terms of target locations and spins and again the % goes down. The wind, sun glare, twilight conditions, increase/decrease of temperature all can change during a match and can require adjustments.

Lastly, you might have become too overconfident or relaxed after winning a set resulting in a quick deficit in the 2nd set and then tightened up on serves trying to come back in the set - it is a lot easier to serve well with a lead than a deficit. Or instead of sticking to a couple of serve spins/locations that were working, you might have become cocky and gone for more variety or harder serves and that can throw off rhythm.

If your serve technique is not stable and capable of going awry for no reason, then you just need to practice more and become a better server.

my technique is not stable enough under pressure and with fatigue. Mental-wise, I'm more likely to be the opposite of cocky...

 

[johnmccabe]

my self diagnosis checklist:
1. am i hitting up?
2. am i getting spin on hit?

if i'm missing into net... my next serve must go long... typical problem for me is no shoulder tilt which could be a result of a lower toss (because i'm tense/nervous/etc...)
once i missing long (that's a good thing), make sure i'm adding spin... typical problems for me: trying to make contact too high (eg. trying to get "on top of the ball"), and not using my legs to drive up and through contact (usually because of fatigue, or tension).
tension is a killer for me... in general, when i'm "scared" it's natural to limit movement (eg. think of a mouse trying to be still)... in tennis terms, for me, it means my motions become "smaller" (shorter toss, no knee bend, slower swing, etc...)... so i often have to remind myself, especially on big points, to be brave (eg. hit it like i practice, vs. "just get it in") - because even if i do "just get it in", against anyone decent, they will put me on defense on the return anyway.

then i refine from there. if i'm out of sync, i dare not ever hit a flat serve... if i'm really out of sync i just go for middle of the box, before trying to go to the bh (or weaker wing), etc...

I definitely have smaller motions subconsciously under pressure. maybe I should just focus on hitting high arch kick serve with normal swing speed when I'm in trouble.

Forgot to mention, I'm trying to switch from platform to pinpoint. This is like the 3rd match where I completely dropping platform stance. I'm aware that my right foot can sometimes slide further to the right side of my left foot (righty). Not sure if that's causing problems.

 

[johnmccabe]

The reasoning is that I expect you've made so many adjustments that you're struggling to return to what works for you.

I wish I can record my own matches and I would learn so much from analyzing the videos. I think you are spot on here.

 

[nyta2]

I definitely have smaller motions subconsciously under pressure. maybe I should just focus on hitting high arch kick serve with normal swing speed when I'm in trouble.

Forgot to mention, I'm trying to switch from platform to pinpoint. This is like the 3rd match where I completely dropping platform stance. I'm aware that my right foot can sometimes slide further to the right side of my left foot (righty). Not sure if that's causing problems.

i've switched from platform to pinpoint and now back to platform... #1 issue to fix for me during these transitions is getting my toss and contact point (relative to my body) consistent (my tendency is to go back to old habits (ironically i switch back to platform to give myself more cues of when i'm chasing the toss - which imo is easier for me to unconsciously do in pinpoint). once i start chasing the toss, it's harder to get the right contact height, and i end up swinging more horizontally through contact vs. getting that feel of "up and out" through contact. my $0.02

 

[zaskar1]

I had a weird breakdown in my serve today. The first set, it was great. Flat slice kick all worked as I command with couple of aces. The second set, I kept double faulting on deuce side, but not much of a problem on ad court. Sometimes it went long for 6 inches and sometimes dumped it into the net. I could tell when I slowed down the swing too much and tried to correct for that. I could tell when I tossed to 1 o'clock to hit a kick serve and tried to correct for that. but still that set slipped away very fast.

Does anyone have a system of self-diagnosis when your serve is failing during a match? Toss, swing, leg drive, or not watching the contact? What are the most common problems that I should check first?

jm
you have to analyze what is causing your doubles. probably due to nerves, usually the toss goes awry., and you chase a bad toss.
try to take your time, only swing at the good ones. you get as many tosses as you need.
usually on the deuce side, its easier to tell if your toss isnt in the right place.
once you analyze what is the issue, you can make the correction, and practice.
for me its always tossing the ball in the wrong place, usually a short toss, too much in front as my swing is very consistent.
you dont want to double fault, unless you have a killer serve that goes in all the time
z

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

I wish I can record my own matches and I would learn so much from analyzing the videos. I think you are spot on here.

If you can't record matches [why not?], then at the very least record your serving practice.

 

[socallefty]

my technique is not stable enough under pressure and with fatigue.

Stress and fatigue can cause the following:

- Inconsistent toss
- Lower toss
- Less knee bend
- Hitting down and not enough ‘up‘ on the ball.

See if you are doing any of these checkpoints and correct as needed. Alternately, try for extra depth rather than extra pace when you feel stressed or fatigued - that will automatically correct some of the errors that might have crept into your serve technique.

 

[ShaunS]

I wish I can record my own matches and I would learn so much from analyzing the videos. I think you are spot on here.

Video is so much more helpful than most people can even imagine, but there are some alternatives. Serving is something that a second person can actually provide some help with relatively easy. If your hitting partner or opponent is someone that you know, tell them what specifically you're working on with the serve. After a service game if you have some struggles ask them whether anything looked off. I've got someone I hit with regularly, and we've gotten to the point where it's expected that sort of feedback will be provided (without either of us getting defensive about some advice).
Otherwise you can just ask someone to watch you hit a few serves with the same guidance. Serving should be very consistent, so if there's anything shaky it can often be spotted quickly. Sometimes we can feel like the toss is just right, but in reality we're throwing it much further in front than expected. I've literally had a situation in the past where someone watched me serve twice when I was serving erratically. They tell me I'm tossing it too far forward, and immediately after adjusting the toss back a few inches it locks in to hitting perfectly.

 

[zaskar1]

Stress and fatigue can cause the following:

- Inconsistent toss
- Lower toss
- Less knee bend
- Hitting down and not enough ‘up‘ on the ball.

See if you are doing any of these checkpoints and correct as needed. Alternately, try for extra depth rather than extra pace when you feel stressed or fatigued - that will automatically correct some of the errors that might have crept into your serve technique.

SCL

i totally agree, in my usual weekly doubles match yesterday,i blew 2 or 3 match points during the tiebreaks which were double faults, as i
was just trying to get it in.
this match was very close as we barely won the first set, and in the second we had come back from an 0-4 deficient to push the match to a 7 pt tiebreak.
in the 10 pt, i also doubled, but was able to hit the winner at match point.

i think i did all of the 4 points that you describe above in my DFs

z

 

[socallefty]

SCL

i totally agree, in my usual weekly doubles match yesterday,i blew 2 or 3 match points during the tiebreaks which were double faults, as i
was just trying to get it in.
this match was very close as we barely won the first set, and in the second we had come back from an 0-4 deficient to push the match to a 7 pt tiebreak.
in the 10 pt, i also doubled, but was able to hit the winner at match point.

i think i did all of the 4 points that you describe above in my DFs

z

Your racquet head speed (RHS) also goes down along with toss height when you are stressed as there is a tendency to tighten up the muscles in your arm/shoulder and swing nervously. So, make sure you consciously relax your arm/shoulder (I shake my arm loosely a few times), take your time and then swing harder aiming for more depth. 80-90% of DFs under stress go into the net and so, aiming for more depth with a faster swing corrects for it.

 

[zaskar1]

Your racquet head speed (RHS) also goes down along with toss height when you are stressed as there is a tendency to tighten up the muscles in your arm/shoulder and swing nervously. So, make sure you consciously relax your arm/shoulder (I shake my arm loosely a few times), take your time and then swing harder aiming for more depth. 80-90% of DFs under stress go into the net and so, aiming for more depth with a faster swing corrects for it.

SCL
good tips, hopefully i can cut down on close matches. if i am way ahead, i need to put the hammer down without let up.
i found i get "more" stressed when the matches are tight.
guess thats normal.
when i am way ahead i am totally relaxed, especially in doubles.
z