Having just posted on another thread regarding guitar players, it made me think of opening up a debate on who people might consider to be the greatest ever? For me, my number one would be the great blues legend and mythical figure, Robert Johnson (super-natural technique; essence of blues music; from which blues, rythym and blues, rock 'n' roll, Stones, Dylan, rock music, etc, has all morphed from.) I can't think of a single more influential guitarist in the history of contemporary music (although he was also, of course, a mesmerizing singer and a hauntingly beautiful songwriter.) So then, who do you all rate as your own number one on guitar?
greatest ever guitar player?
- Thread starter Ross K
- Start date
Matthew
Professional
as far as from MY generation (cause thats all i know), i am a huge john mayer fan. if you haven't already, listen to john mayer trio before you label mayer as a VH1 pop songwriter. he is an amazing guitar player and does some great live shows. 4 minute songs turn into 10 minute songs because he just never stops on the guitar. he has a style similar to stevie ray vaughn.
edmondsm
Legend
Robert Johnson is a good one if you're looking for a bluesman songwriter type, but in that generation, Charlie Christian is a fundamentally better player.
Christian's playing influenced a generation of guitar players. the most prominent of which is Wes Montomery. Montgomery's playing was the catalyst for all jazz guitar players as well as being a huge influence in Jimi Hendix's life who is in my opinion the most purely talented guitar player/song-writer of all time.
After that the pool of guitar players gets crowded. Based on genre you've got guys like Duane Allman and Clapton on the pop/bluesy side. John Scofield, Mike Stern, and Scott Henderson on the Fusion side. You could throw Stevie Ray Vaughn in there if you wanted to but as far as pure guitar playing....he just doesn't stand up to the ones I mentioned.
I didn't even touch on the Classical guitar genre which is a whole other can of worms. GREATEST GUITAR PLAYER is to ambiguous a title to give any one person, but I am sure that it isn't John Mayer. Even though I like his music and playing.
Christian's playing influenced a generation of guitar players. the most prominent of which is Wes Montomery. Montgomery's playing was the catalyst for all jazz guitar players as well as being a huge influence in Jimi Hendix's life who is in my opinion the most purely talented guitar player/song-writer of all time.
After that the pool of guitar players gets crowded. Based on genre you've got guys like Duane Allman and Clapton on the pop/bluesy side. John Scofield, Mike Stern, and Scott Henderson on the Fusion side. You could throw Stevie Ray Vaughn in there if you wanted to but as far as pure guitar playing....he just doesn't stand up to the ones I mentioned.
I didn't even touch on the Classical guitar genre which is a whole other can of worms. GREATEST GUITAR PLAYER is to ambiguous a title to give any one person, but I am sure that it isn't John Mayer. Even though I like his music and playing.
Excellently made points, edmondsm (even if I disagreed with some of the content.) Tbh, I'm not sure I was expecting such an articulate response. I think I was expecting people to reply with names like 'Slash', 'The Edge', 'Prince' or whoever!
1) Okay, yes, maybe 'greatest guitar player' is a bit ambiguous but, in keeping with a lot of posts, it's also a bit of fun... ie, I don't think we need to be too pedantic here on TT.
2) You can argue that Christian was 'technically' a better player (and I'm not sure I would - it's an argument that's predicated on blues being technically easier to play than jazz, which I wouldn't say is such a wrong statement, EXCEPT in the case of RJ there are other major factors which have to considered); you can make a well-thought out case citing CC's influence over jazz, Montgomery and Hendrix etc (which imho pales besides Johnson's influence on blues, rock, and probably most forms of modern music since the blues era... Q. Who/what do you think influenced Hendrix more? Christian/jazz or Johnson/blues?...), BUT... BUT! BUT! BUT!... to refer to R. Johnson as a 'bluesman songwriter type'?!... That's like saying 'Shakespeare wasn't bad with a quill'... 'Michael Jordan could play a bit of basketball'... 'Mozart was a reasonable pianist'... and 'That Piccasso fella sure could handle a crayon!'...
Anyhow, thanks for your input. I did really appreciate what you had to say.
(P.S. I was going to say something about D. Reinhard being as equal an influence with jazz as C. Christian... maybe I should just drop that one!)
1) Okay, yes, maybe 'greatest guitar player' is a bit ambiguous but, in keeping with a lot of posts, it's also a bit of fun... ie, I don't think we need to be too pedantic here on TT.
2) You can argue that Christian was 'technically' a better player (and I'm not sure I would - it's an argument that's predicated on blues being technically easier to play than jazz, which I wouldn't say is such a wrong statement, EXCEPT in the case of RJ there are other major factors which have to considered); you can make a well-thought out case citing CC's influence over jazz, Montgomery and Hendrix etc (which imho pales besides Johnson's influence on blues, rock, and probably most forms of modern music since the blues era... Q. Who/what do you think influenced Hendrix more? Christian/jazz or Johnson/blues?...), BUT... BUT! BUT! BUT!... to refer to R. Johnson as a 'bluesman songwriter type'?!... That's like saying 'Shakespeare wasn't bad with a quill'... 'Michael Jordan could play a bit of basketball'... 'Mozart was a reasonable pianist'... and 'That Piccasso fella sure could handle a crayon!'...
Anyhow, thanks for your input. I did really appreciate what you had to say.
(P.S. I was going to say something about D. Reinhard being as equal an influence with jazz as C. Christian... maybe I should just drop that one!)
edmondsm
Legend
Couldn't agree more. I only used that terminology with RJ because great musicians escape classification. Just like you eluded to, it's like saying John Lennon could write a catchy tune.
I heard Django just the other day on the radio....haven't heard Charlie's name mentioned in a long time.
fuzz nation
G.O.A.T.
Yeah, I've found that the "greatest ever" discussion, argument, etc. is pretty much irrelevant. Every player is part of the sonic landscape and they each have their own place that's framed by the era and genre in which they played. You can't define them without understanding who they played with and who came before them. I'm a bass player and much of my job when I play is to listen to everyone, not just the drummer or guitar player, so I hear stuff that rips my head off from horn sections, percussionists, backround singers and such on a regular basis.
I think this discussion is really about favorite guitar players. The ones that make the hair on the back of your neck stand up. Fortunately for me, there aren't just one or two and a few of them are weekend warriors that I see around the block in local cover bands. All of them are worthy of appreciation. I must say though, I got to see AC/DC once in the 80's and I've never seen anything rock out so fiercely and infectiously as Angus Young. The poor little dude has to spend every show he plays posessed by a rock 'n roll demon that turns him into a Tasmanian Devil with a Gibson SG strapped to its chest.
Shamalamadingdong!!!!
I think this discussion is really about favorite guitar players. The ones that make the hair on the back of your neck stand up. Fortunately for me, there aren't just one or two and a few of them are weekend warriors that I see around the block in local cover bands. All of them are worthy of appreciation. I must say though, I got to see AC/DC once in the 80's and I've never seen anything rock out so fiercely and infectiously as Angus Young. The poor little dude has to spend every show he plays posessed by a rock 'n roll demon that turns him into a Tasmanian Devil with a Gibson SG strapped to its chest.
Shamalamadingdong!!!!
mhstennis100
Semi-Pro
What do people think of David Gilmour of Pink Floyd?
Although obviously you've got to pay the man all respect (Gilmour), of that ilk and era, I must say I personally prefer Keith Richards, Pete Townsend and many others. That Pink Floyd, 'trippy' late-60's stuff never did it for me. Unlike the early Stones and good ol' 'Keef', who, incidentally, was a massive Robert Johnson devotee (they of course covered 'Love In Vain' and 'Stop Breaking Down Blues'), and, incredibly, is still at it after all these years of chronic self-abuse and accidents involving falling out of a tree (one can't help but find a metaphor there!...)
Btw, fuzz nation, I'm still digesting those wise words you posted earlier... I couldn't agree more. You're absolutley right about the 'sonic landscape' (great phrase!) and how it's all relative to the precise era and circumstances then, etc, and how this is really about individual's favourites.
Still, futile or not, just like with boxing polls (who was the greatest heavyweight of all time?), sax player polls (who was the greatest sax player?), actors polls (greatest ever actor?), whatever, sometimes you just can't help yourself!
1. Muhammad Ali 2. Charlie Parker 3. Marlon Brando... oops- here we go again!
Btw, fuzz nation, I'm still digesting those wise words you posted earlier... I couldn't agree more. You're absolutley right about the 'sonic landscape' (great phrase!) and how it's all relative to the precise era and circumstances then, etc, and how this is really about individual's favourites.
Still, futile or not, just like with boxing polls (who was the greatest heavyweight of all time?), sax player polls (who was the greatest sax player?), actors polls (greatest ever actor?), whatever, sometimes you just can't help yourself!
1. Muhammad Ali 2. Charlie Parker 3. Marlon Brando... oops- here we go again!
shavenstringer
Semi-Pro
Shawn Lane, the most underrated and misunderstood guitarist ever. His incredible technique and style still leaves people speechless. His complex speed left people laughing in the floor. I have never seen another gutiarist have this effect on people. Quite often his solos were criticized because others couldn't figure out what he was playing. Anyway is there really a greatest? Its to subjective to say.
AgassiFan12
New User
Has anyone heard Derek Trucks of the Allman Brothers? Simply AMAZING! He has a slightly different style than Duane Allman (RIP) but he has made that band GREAT again! (getting rid of Dickey Betts didn't hurt either)
I also think Jerry Garcia could be on the greatest ever list. He is a great improvisational guitar player.
I also think Jerry Garcia could be on the greatest ever list. He is a great improvisational guitar player.
LASVEGAS ACES
New User
Robert Fripp
edmondsm
Legend
Boooo. I'm sorry but I have to shoot this one down. Carlos Santana is a marketing genius and nothing more. He surrounds himself with great musicians who take on most of the work during his live shows. His concerts are filled with unbelievable percussion jams which are the only reason to attend them. Then he comes in with his jive-ass, crusty guitar licks that he's been playing for 40+ years and names the band after himself. He didn't even write alot of his famous tunes. Guys who are relatively unknown in the pop world like Tito Puente did.
Then he really sold out. Putting out an album with Michele Branch and Rob Thomas, and oh big suprise, HE WINS A GRAMMY!!! Another example of the corrupt music industry handing out awards for crappy fluff.
Everybody needs to know that Santana is a phony. Another Booo just for good measure.
Punisha
Professional
drakulie
Talk Tennis Guru
Thank you, thank you, thank you! I can't stand this fricking guy. He sucks!
Phil
Hall of Fame
I agree with some of those comments-spot on. Like many successful musicians of that era...cough...Roling Stones...cough...he's grown fat, lazy and rich (and uncreative)...
But his early stuff-1965 to 1970, is outstanding, IMO, if you've ever actually listened to it. No one was fusing jazz, Latin, rock and soul like he did, and he could do more with a couple notes than many "guitar gods" were capable of with 5,000 spaghetti licks. He could be truely sublime. Listen to Samba Pa Ti and tell me if this guy was a phoney. There aren't any guitarists that have reached his level/reputation who don't actually have the CHOPS.
The fact that he BORROWED from others is nothing new...for example, any white rock guitarist wouldn't be where he was if it weren't for the great black blues musicians. Lately, he's been ripping himself off-the young Carlos Santana.
That Grammy he won was definitely bogus.
For All I know
New User
You also forgot:
Eddie Van Halen
Eric Johnson
Randy Rhoads
Derek Trucks
John Petrucci
(I know, others will add more!)
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Bottle Rocket
Hall of Fame
Add Tim Reynolds to the list...
Dedans Penthouse
Legend
I agree. He's become a self-parody, "solo-wise."
Carlos Santana solo = "let's go get a beer"
bluegrasser
Hall of Fame
'
He was best ( as Phil stated ) in the early yrs, but I'd take it a little further, say - mid seventies, but I still like his chops, just too many pedals. In the early yrs it was just plug her in, crank her up, and play - the best tone he had was with his Les Paul and SG IMO.
edmondsm
Legend
You guys should check out Tommy Emmanuel (check my spelling). Incredible steel string virtuoso. Plus I think he's an Aussie so it's especially relevant to the current tennis atmosphere.
About Santana. I'm not going to say that his music isn't without merit, but alot of it isn't his music. Like I said before, his tunes are written by different guys alot of the time, he doesn't sing, and he definately doesn't belong in a discussion about great guitar players just because he played up and down the same scale effectively. It's no great achievement either to get a Les Paul sounding good when its going through a tower of Marshall cabinets. I hate it when people talk about these guitar players having "great tone". You would sound good too if you were going though $10,000 worth of equipment.
About Santana. I'm not going to say that his music isn't without merit, but alot of it isn't his music. Like I said before, his tunes are written by different guys alot of the time, he doesn't sing, and he definately doesn't belong in a discussion about great guitar players just because he played up and down the same scale effectively. It's no great achievement either to get a Les Paul sounding good when its going through a tower of Marshall cabinets. I hate it when people talk about these guitar players having "great tone". You would sound good too if you were going though $10,000 worth of equipment.
bluegrasser
Hall of Fame
He didn't use a Marshall stack in the studio - the tone on his first three albums rocks.
bluegrasser
Hall of Fame
Uh Huh , yes sir - I love the blues, and play the blues + I had six kids, so i live the blues.
Trinity TC
Semi-Pro
You definitely have a right to play the blues. Keep playin' bro.... + I had six kids, so i live the blues.
Trinity TC
Semi-Pro
duplicate post
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edmondsm
Legend
Based on their wanking they are wankers. There is more to playing guitar than playing a million miles an hour.
Another great: John Scofield. Especially the Blue Matter band with Dennis Chambers on drums and the album he cut with Medeski, Martin, and Wood.
For All I know
New User
In my opinion, Malmsteen is just a speed demon. Supposedly he has the quickest fretboard work. I just don't sense much feel from his playing (even when he does zone out in his emotional state).
Satriani on the other hand -- that guy is capable of fast runs and his playing has color (dynamics) to it. So he is the best of both worlds (speed licks and beautiful MUSIC).
Among modern guitarists, I think Eric Johson has the most color of them all. He is a tone-freak! Nothing bland from him. Besides from being very picky with his equipment and tone settings, his picking technique alone is what makes his signature sound, with the orchestration of sounds he creates by varying where he attacks the strings and from which angles.
If I had to choose one guitarist as a favorite, I would have to go with Joe Satriani.
Phil
Hall of Fame
So what? He's a guitar player. What did Jeff Beck write? Steve Vai-does what he plays actually require "writing"? A big so what...if you want James Taylor, fine. I don't care where the songs come from, when they're played by a great guitar player, or "interpreted", they become his.
edmondsm
Legend
I don't care if he doesn't write his songs. I care that he doesn't write songs and he doesn't play the guitar well either. He doesn't do anything well other than market himself as some sort of genius. He's the guitar equivalent to Puff Daddy.
Phil
Hall of Fame
You obviously DO care, since half your post was a rant that Santana didn't write his own songs. He's done well at marketing himself. Again, so what? Poor Jimi Hendrix, the greatest guitar player ever, sold away his rights to a shyster for $1. Santana wasn't so naive, or "pure". Again, a big so what?
It's your opinion...like him or hate him, but at least articulate a REAL reason that you don't think his playing stacks up to other highly-regarded guitarists. Marketing, writing music...nothing to do with PLAYING, but I guess being able to commercialize yourself rubs some purists the wrong way. Being a broke, washed up or prematurely dead ex-rock star is not, in my mind, "noble". Kudos to Carlos for remaining viable and a part of the music scene, even if he has been a hack for the last 30 years or so.
edmondsm
Legend
I ranted about the song-writing thing because I thought it was probably something alot of people didn't know about. There are alot of great musicians who are great at marketing: Sting, Yo-Yo-Ma to name a couple.
If you want concrete stuff about his crappy guitar playing than here goes:
He basically relies on a single scale/mode for his soloing, the dorian mode. If you don't know what that is it's derived from the major scale and it is essentially just a minor scale with a raised 6th. It's fine to utilize one scale alot but you better be freakin' creative about how you do it. He isn't. He starts off every solo buy trying to develop a rhythmic motive but because he doesn't have command of the fretboard he always starts in the same register and stays there for quite some time. Then without building any tension whatsoever he starts pumping out all his tried and true licks. Usually deceptively easy hammer-on and pull-off patterns that every beginning guitar player learns in their first few years of playing.
He's been playing like this since the 60's and his playing has gone nowhere because he doesn't care about expanding as a musician he cares about the money.
For All I know
New User
You also forgot to mention about his "tried and true" bend and releases too.
No disrespect for the guy. Just thought I would add that "same old" trademark sound of his that is playing in my head.
No disrespect for the guy. Just thought I would add that "same old" trademark sound of his that is playing in my head.
alwaysatnet
Semi-Pro
Jeff Beck.Undoubtedly.Guitar god to the guitarists.Has been around for so long and played so many styles.His "Blow by Blow" is groundbreaking.But,it's just an opinion of mine.Others may not agree.Perhaps Jan Akerman then.
